I’ve played against some of the best FFA players that H5 has to offer and I’ve used mostly Automatics to win against them and it was especially evident when a lot of the sweaty matches had almost entire lobbies with some type of Automatic. I know that some maps like riptide, overgrowth and molten and etc. kinda encourages camping with automatics, but on maps like coliseum, the rig and plaza, the amount of automatics on the maps needs to be reduced or at the very least automatics in general need to be nerfed. A lot of high level players that I’ve been in contact with all seem to agree that automatics need to be either reduced on maps or nerfed. Also it doesn’t help when 343 acknowledges that this is something that needs to be addressed, but instead wastes time on making a video taunting the people who bring topics like this to them with statistics from well respected members of the halo community. Also when do you guys think BTB pistol starts with new maps will be coming?
I am still learning and wish I was a better shot. In Warzone Firefight in level 1, I have been using rifles, Are you saying the Magnum is better. The last game I played this evening the Magnum seemed to be better.
Ah, this old discussion again. I tap.
> 2533274849864264;2:
> I am still learning and wish I was a better shot. In Warzone Firefight in level 1, I have been using rifles, Are you saying the Magnum is better. The last game I played this evening the Magnum seemed to be better.
To be honest, if you don’t miss a single bullet of your AR the TTK (time to kill) is practically the same time as the pistol. All I want to bring up is why are the TTK’s for automatics, weapons that in past halos in order to get a kill with, the player had to be skilled, but in halo 5 the automatics just straight up melt and kill you. I’m saying skillful weapons such as the pistol are less rewarding.
Anything that makes Battle Rifle users uncomfortable makes me happy.
AR users are in a good spot.
Automatics are for CQB to short range, hopefully with a few being helpful at mid-range. Arena maps are heavy on CQB to mid-range.
Now, something to note about range and TTK;
(Note: Those automatics are best TTK headshots. It’s nearly 1sec even for the SMG and 1.4s for the AR with all bodyshots. In a head-on firefight, you don’t keep automatics beamed at heads.)
As you can see, when players have the situational advantage, within 15m, nearly everything is fair game. However, it is the situational difference between < 15m and > 15m that all of us need to learn to manipulate. And clearly, you have.
What is this?
Why simple; < 10m, if you can’t keep your precision on your opponent, you are punished. > 20m, if you can’t keep your automatic reticle on the opponent, you are punished. Between 10m & 20m, it’s about even, regardless of what weapon you use, and you need other force multipliers to tilt the situation in your favour, or face the roll of the equality die.
And… 18m is the motion tracker range. Pretty much the indicator of whether you can use an automatic or should use a precision, for best, but not absolute, efficiency.
Past that, if you like your H2 hardcore or MLG: H3 playlists the most, and view automatics as being the short range crutch weapon, you’re likely to never be satisfied with their inclusion.
And, as long as the idea is to make sure HCS and default are as alike as possible, instead of stuff like MLG: Halo3 being 10% damage&BMS, or MLG: Reach being ZBNS, compared to their default public modes, we’re likely to never see the current relationship change.
Now, I challenge anyone who thinks automatics are overused to take an actual look at their game history. If you take an honest look, you may find the higher up the ranks you go, indeed, the less automatics are used.
> 2603643534597848;6:
> Automatics are for CQB to short range, hopefully with a few being helpful at mid-range. Arena maps are heavy on CQB to mid-range.
> Now, something to note about range and TTK;
>
>
>
>
> (Note: Those automatics are best TTK headshots. It’s nearly 1sec even for the SMG and 1.4s for the AR with all bodyshots. In a head-on firefight, you don’t keep automatics beamed at heads.)
>
> As you can see, when players have the situational advantage, within 15m, nearly everything is fair game. However, it is the situational difference between < 15m and > 15m that all of us need to learn to manipulate. And clearly, you have.
> What is this?
> Why simple; < 10m, if you can’t keep your precision on your opponent, you are punished. > 20m, if you can’t keep your automatic reticle on the opponent, you are punished. Between 10m & 20m, it’s about even, regardless of what weapon you use, and you need other force multipliers to tilt the situation in your favour, or face the roll of the equality die.
>
> And… 18m is the motion tracker range. Pretty much the indicator of whether you can use an automatic or should use a precision, for best, but not absolute, efficiency.
>
> Past that, if you like your H2 hardcore or MLG: H3 playlists the most, and view automatics as being the short range crutch weapon, you’re likely to never be satisfied with their inclusion.
> And, as long as the idea is to make sure HCS and default are as alike as possible, instead of stuff like MLG: Halo3 being 10% damage&BMS, or MLG: Reach being ZBNS, compared to their default public modes, we’re likely to never see the current relationship change.
Even more reason to nerf or limit them, plus people like Kampy, Vetoed and other really high level players are complaining about these stats. Situational advantage with an automatic shouldn’t be as viable as it is right now. “When looking at how automatics affect this game, people should be looking for the perfect player to demonstrate the weapons capability”- Vetoed on automatics
I am so sick of Halo being a Battle Rifle only game. That time is over. It’s done. It should never come back.
> 2533274805075298;8:
> I am so sick of Halo being a Battle Rifle only game. That time is over. It’s done. It should never come back.
Halo was a precision based game based heavily on skill and showed with each weapon the skilled user would use. I never said anything about the BR…
> 2533274805075298;8:
> I am so sick of Halo being a Battle Rifle only game. That time is over. It’s done. It should never come back.
Who ever said that only the battle rifle should be useful in halo? Just balance every gun based on ease of use/difficulty correlating with the time to kill while giving unique roles for each weapon. On top of that, design a utility weapon that can contest every weapon with a fast TTK (that should be hard to use), and you have yourself a dynamic weapon sandbox.
> 2535458232742189;7:
> > 2603643534597848;6:
> > Automatics are for CQB to short range…
> > …
> > …
> > …
>
>
> Even more reason to nerf or limit them, plus people like Kampy, Vetoed and other really high level players are complaining about these stats. Situational advantage with an automatic shouldn’t be as viable as it is right now. “When looking at how automatics affect this game, people should be looking for the perfect player to demonstrate the weapons capability”- Vetoed on automatics
How did you arrive at “even more reason to nerf” after reading Reaper’s post?
I’d rather look to statistics than some arbitrary “perfect player” to demonstrate a weapon’s capabilities.
So frustrating to see 3 sources of different kill times within the weapon sandbox, along with a video from the CageyBee.
http://teambeyond.net/forum/topic/10066-halo-5-weapon-kill-times/
https://www.reddit.com/r/halo/comments/4bxcyi/halo_5_weapon_breakdowns_by_time_to_kill/
https://www.reddit.com/r/halo/comments/3rqtno/a_fairly_indepth_halo_5_multiplayer_weapons/
How am I supposed to know which information regarding the automatics is the most accurate?
> 2535458232742189;9:
> > 2533274805075298;8:
> > I am so sick of Halo being a Battle Rifle only game. That time is over. It’s done. It should never come back.
>
>
> Halo was a precision based game based heavily on skill and showed with each weapon the skilled user would use. I never said anything about the BR…
No, you didn’t. But you’re wrong. Halo is not a precision based game. Halo is an Arena Shooter- and if you know what that means, then you see where I’m going with this.
Weapons have distinct modes of firing and roles. They must all have counters, optimal ranges, and utility in what they’re good at. The Assault Rifle absolutely shreds at the 11-19m range, and that’s great. Its headshot bonus (Though it shouldn’t happen while hipfiring) really puts it in a different role than the same-damage-SMG and seriously allows some actual use of the weapon, when you’ve got a gun that has thirty six rounds of headshot capability and can kill three men in a single pull. God that is just so mind blowingly broken and I hate it so much.
But why do I bring up the Battle Rifle?
> 2533274968707582;10:
> > 2533274805075298;8:
> > I am so sick of Halo being a Battle Rifle only game. That time is over. It’s done. It should never come back.
>
>
> Who ever said that only the battle rifle should be useful in halo? Just balance every gun based on ease of use/difficulty correlating with the time to kill while giving unique roles for each weapon. On top of that, design a utility weapon that can contest every weapon with a fast TTK (that should be hard to use), and you have yourself a dynamic weapon sandbox.
The AR is that utility weapon, and that’s perfect.
Now, as for why I bring up the Battle Rifle- if automatics are nerfed, it allows the Battle Rifle to reign supreme.
Once again.
Nerfed automatic weapons allow THE BATTLE RIFLE to reign supreme. The single most nefarious and easy to use, rewarding-lazy-hip-firing-with-headshots weapon in the entire sandbox. Again, there is a reason Bungie threw it in the trashcan after Halo 3.
We can not allow it to reign supreme. We can not allow competitive gaming to be defined by a singular weapon that is too useful. It’s wrong. Utterly wrong for the game’s inherent design.
> 2533274968707582;13:
> So frustrating to see 3 sources of different kill times within the weapon sandbox, along with a video from the CageyBee.
> http://teambeyond.net/forum/topic/10066-halo-5-weapon-kill-times/
> https://www.reddit.com/r/halo/comments/4bxcyi/halo_5_weapon_breakdowns_by_time_to_kill/
> https://www.reddit.com/r/halo/comments/3rqtno/a_fairly_indepth_halo_5_multiplayer_weapons/
> How am I supposed to know which information regarding the automatics is the most accurate?
They’re all similar in that they show the same data, it’s just that the data is either a slightly quicker or slower TTK. It’s all offset consistently, which means it’s very relative.
The relationship between the weapons across those 4 sources doesn’t change. However, what I have done is used someones actual scientific results, their actual tested+average TTK with 10 kills per range marker.
I’ve also allowed you to see the video I have used due to its title in the pictures so you can watch it yourself.
You can certainly trust data over feelings.
> 2535458232742189;7:
> > 2603643534597848;6:
> >
>
>
> Even more reason to nerf or limit them, plus people like Kampy, Vetoed and other really high level players are complaining about these stats. Situational advantage with an automatic shouldn’t be as viable as it is right now. “When looking at how automatics affect this game, people should be looking for the perfect player to demonstrate the weapons capability”- Vetoed on automatics.
When looking at automatics? As though a single weapon-type requires a special microscope? And we’re to nerf the best users to ensure they’re not as good, instead of buffing other things to let others flex different muscles?
“I feel cheap playing to win by using automatics.” may be a true feeling, however, automatics are not being used nearly as often to finish a kill as “felt” in high level play. And the actual use of weapons is a tell-tale sign of sandbox effectiveness confidence.
Another feeling, “I got robbed by an automatic,” can happen. But isn’t this “us” blaming our actions on falling for a trap? Again, take a look at those games.
It’s quite obvious the SR, SMG and AR are not avoided like they used to be in previous games. It’s also obvious, the M6 and BR are still the preferred non-PW weapon to use.
… If AR’s, SMG’s and SR’s are being used for clutch wins, it’s literally due to trying to get the last few kills with them, not the entire game. And that’s weird. Why would such powerful tools be used at the end, and not first, like every other weapon?
> 2533274968707582;10:
> > 2533274805075298;8:
> > I am so sick of Halo being a Battle Rifle only game. That time is over. It’s done. It should never come back.
>
>
> Who ever said that only the battle rifle should be useful in halo? Just balance every gun based on ease of use/difficulty correlating with the time to kill while giving unique roles for each weapon. On top of that, design a utility weapon that can contest every weapon with a fast TTK (that should be hard to use), and you have yourself a dynamic weapon sandbox.
You get it 