I think one of the biggest frustrations of this game (for me at least) comes from how fast the automatic weapons kill without requiring enough precision like the magnum. They have introduced this unskillful manner of rock-paper-scissors without introducing a high skill gap from each of the weapon choices apart from your starting weapons (the pistol and AR). So I think what 343 can do to make automatic weapons maintain their fast kill times while implementing mechanics that require skillful use of them would be to introduce recoil patterns.
This would replace the bloom mechanic we have seen in all automatics in halo. Instead of trying to simulate recoil patterns, why not actually implement them in game? CS:GO has heavily emphasized the importance of recoil control in their games due to how severe most of the automatics are in their recoil patterns, but the key is that these patterns are the same thing every single time. So if you can learn to manage such recoil in the game after studying those recoil patterns, you should manage to easily attain kills in CQC while still working to maintain accuracy. This would also solve the inconsistency of bloom in that you may have your aim on target without getting hit markers due to unpredictability in the hip fire spread. The SMG and storm rifle would receive different, but more severe recoil patterns than the AR due to their fast killing potential.
Such an implementation would increase the skill gap for the automatics unlike the current situation we have in that players are guaranteed to get kills in CQC if they have an SMG or storm rifle in their back pocket. .
just another nerf autos thread, sorry but i prefer them not being as useless as trying to carve marble with a butter knife
> 2533274839169051;2:
> just another nerf autos thread, sorry but i prefer them not being as useless as trying to carve marble with a butter knife
I also prefer them to not guarantee kills in the matter that they do currently. What do you find wrong with recoil patterns for automatics specifically?
I would just lower the aim assist.
They’re definitely too easy to use right now for how powerful they are though.
> 2533274839169051;2:
> just another nerf autos thread, sorry but i prefer them not being as useless as trying to carve marble with a butter knife
Theres no reason they cannot be useful while also providing deep, interesting, skilled gameplay.
There is no rule that says auto weapons have to be easy to use, giant reticuled spray weapons.
> 2535460097937638;4:
> I would just lower the aim assist.
>
> They’re definitely too easy to use right now for how powerful they are though.
I agree, especially when the storm rifle and SMG have faster potential kill times than every precision weapon in the game. I think introducing a different dynamic with the automatics that precision weapons don’t have would make for interesting counter plays against people using automatic weapons.
> 2533274968707582;6:
> > 2535460097937638;4:
> > I would just lower the aim assist.
> >
> > They’re definitely too easy to use right now for how powerful they are though.
>
>
> I agree, especially when the storm rifle and SMG have faster potential kill times than every precision weapon in the game. I think introducing a different dynamic with the automatics that precision weapons don’t have would make for interesting counter plays against people using automatic weapons.
Im not sure how your proposal would actually work though as I’am not too familiar with CS.
I think they’re fine as they are. Precision weapons always win from afar but automatic weapons have the advantage in close quarters. If precision weapons could win every engagement, then auto weapons would be useless.
> 2533274968231926;8:
> I think they’re fine as they are. Precision weapons always win from afar but automatic weapons have the advantage in close quarters. If precision weapons could win every engagement, then auto weapons would be useless.
He’s not saying precision weapons should win at all ranges. He’s saying autos should be just as interesting and difficult to use as precision weapons. That way close range combat is just as interesting as mid range combat.
I disagree, especially when it comes to close to mid-range battles. Automatic weapons have their defined roles for close-quarter encounters, meaning they are designed to have an advantage against Pistols, BRs, DMRs, Carbines, and Light Rifles in those situations. If two Spartans engage in close quarter combat, one with the AR and one with the Pistol, I should expect the Spartan with the AR to win more times than the Spartan with the Pistol. That was the way the AR was designed. Not to mention, there are ways to outplay your opponent by outmaneuvering him, specifically strafing, jumping, crouching, and using the Thrusters.
Posting to want autos harder will always give you people who love to dominate with easy weapons. I would give them CE levels of bloom, with a larger reticule, and remove the head shot bonuses. The lower tiered skill levels wouldn’t want to control recoil.
> 2533274970658419;11:
> Posting to want autos harder will always give you people who love to dominate with easy weapons. I would give them CE levels of bloom, with a larger reticule, and remove the head shot bonuses. The lower tiered skill levels wouldn’t want to control recoil.
Headshot bonus for autos is stupid in general.
A precision weapon can already kill and automatic at close range if they skillfully aim, adding another nerf to automatics would make precision weapons always win.
These guns do not need any nerfs.
Also, in csgo, those automatic weapons have huge recoil patterns due to the fact that they can 1 shot kill or hit someone twice to kill them, not just because some players lose in precision fighter against automatics.
> 2535460097937638;7:
> > 2533274968707582;6:
> > > 2535460097937638;4:
> > > I would just lower the aim assist.
> > >
> > > They’re definitely too easy to use right now for how powerful they are though.
> >
> >
> > I agree, especially when the storm rifle and SMG have faster potential kill times than every precision weapon in the game. I think introducing a different dynamic with the automatics that precision weapons don’t have would make for interesting counter plays against people using automatic weapons.
>
>
> Im not sure how your proposal would actually work though as I’am not too familiar with CS.
You should research the recoil patterns on CS GO. There are websites that show the spray patterns of differ net weapons.
oh good another one of these threads.
dont charge someone with an SMG when you are holding a pistol, and don’t charge around a corner into a small room with a precision weapon out. that is what nerfs the autos.
> Im not sure how your proposal would actually work though as I’am not too familiar with CS.
[Weapons fire bullets in a specific pattern. The crosshair also moves in a set pattern. This pattern becomes more unwieldy the longer you fire, and resets when you stop firing. So with proper aim one can compensate and semi-control the spread of the bullets when spraying. Alternatively you could just tap fire or burst fire to avoid the pattern altogether. Which is what people do for the most part as it’s unfeasible to control a full on spray at longer ranges.
The left animations are the patterns. The right animations display how you have to aim in order to compensate for these patterns.](http://csgoskills.com/academy/spray-patterns/)
How this differs from Halo is that in Halo there is no pattern, the spread is just completely random.
For a few reasons I’m skeptical of how effective this system would be in a Halo game. It requires a fair amount of precision that controllers may be incapable of. That and how prolonged firing with automatics is far more important in Halo than it is in CS.
> 2533274944621319;13:
> A precision weapon can already kill and automatic at close range if they skillfully aim, adding another nerf to automatics would make precision weapons always win.
>
> These guns do not need any nerfs.
>
> Also, in csgo, those automatic weapons have huge recoil patterns due to the fact that they can 1 shot kill or hit someone twice to kill them, not just because some players lose in precision fighter against automatics.
The SMG and storm rifle both kill in one second as their fastest kill time, while none of the precision weapons except the LR come close to that kill time. You have to be extremely skilled with a precision weapon to beat any player using an SMG because of how fast it kills, assuming that both players are on equal footing.
The addition of recoil for automatics can be justified for the same reason in CS GO: those weapons have very fast kill potentials, in comparison to precision weapons. This wouldn’t make automatics useless at all if used skillfully as they still retain the same fast TTK, just with a mechanic that makes land shots harder than before.
> 2535460097937638;9:
> > 2533274968231926;8:
> > I think they’re fine as they are. Precision weapons always win from afar but automatic weapons have the advantage in close quarters. If precision weapons could win every engagement, then auto weapons would be useless.
>
>
> He’s not saying precision weapons should win at all ranges. He’s saying autos should be just as interesting and difficult to use as precision weapons. That way close range combat is just as interesting as mid range combat.
The difficulty in using close combat weapons is getting in range of the other player without getting capped first. Its a different kind of challenge than landing precision hits, but its still a challenge.
It’s just like every other halo (except reach) if you’re at close range and you use your pistol or BR you better make sure you 4/5 shot them or you’re dead, simple as that, that’s when they’re useful, at close range. If you die mid/long range against an automatic weapon then you just have horrible accuracy
> 2533274968231926;18:
> > 2535460097937638;9:
> > > 2533274968231926;8:
> > > I think they’re fine as they are. Precision weapons always win from afar but automatic weapons have the advantage in close quarters. If precision weapons could win every engagement, then auto weapons would be useless.
> >
> >
> > He’s not saying precision weapons should win at all ranges. He’s saying autos should be just as interesting and difficult to use as precision weapons. That way close range combat is just as interesting as mid range combat.
>
>
> The difficulty in using close combat weapons is getting in range of the other player without getting capped first. Its a different kind of challenge than landing precision hits, but its still a challenge.
The fast pacing of halo 5 already assists you in that regard, so that “challenge” is easier than before.