Automatics: My Philosophy for Halo 4.

Games Other Halo
1

In Halo Automatic Weapons have been one of those things alot of players don’t get. So I’m going to clarify what Automatic Weapons are meant to do, where I think Bungie has gone wrong in the past, and what I think 343i should do about it.

Now, here’s the purpose Automatics have been designed to serve since Halo CE:

Automatic Weapons provide new, casual, and less skilled players with the ability to get used to the game. I personally think that for the AR, this has always been a good thing to have, but unfortunately unnecessary in Halo 2 and Reach when the Precision “skill based” weapons, have required slim to no skill to actually use.

This leads me to the philosophy in Halo 4 that the DMR, BR, Carbine, and Magnum should have a difficult learning curve ON PURPOSE. But once learned, you should be rewarded with a more overall powerful, and useful weapon. Vs the AR, which should be weaker overall, but in the hands of a less skilled player, should provide them with a much easier learning experience, and the ability to score quick-enough kills.

However: I think the AR is the ONLY Automatic weapon that should be treated as a “Learning Weapon” and should sacrifice power for ease of use. Halo CE is the only game that treated it’s other main Automatic, the Plasma Rifle, this way. The thing was a beast, but took skill and practice to use. Every other Halo game, has since branded ALL Automatics “Learning Curve” weapons, even though weapons like the Spiker, and Plasma Repeater, are honestly quite difficult to use beyond extreme close range.

Weapons like the Storm Rifle, and Needler in Halo 4 honestly deserve to be ACTUAL weapons, choosing to spawn with the Storm Rifle, or call in a Needler in an Ordinance drop is something a skilled player should honestly consider. The reason I think this is because the Needler is meant to be a semi-power weapon, and Plasma Weapons are honestly far more complicated to use than even precision weapons. Leading Shots is alot more difficult than scoring headshots (one of the things I liked about Halo CE’s Plasma Rifle was that BOTH leading shots AND Headshots counted, and were important).

So, TL;DR, and summarizing point is: The AR is a great weapon for helping new players along the learning curve, and should definitely be the first weapon available to custom loadouts. But I believe that every other Automatic weapon in the game deserves a place in mid-high level play, and should be designed with both a broad skill gap, and an appropriate kill time in mind.

PS: In fact, having a UNSC automatic in mid-high level play would be an excellent reason to, say, re-introduce the M6S SMG from ODST, since the only other Automatics we know of so far are the Storm Rifle and Needler.

2

I like the idea of having every weapon viable at any level of play, and I think the AR should be no different. Yes, it should be easy to use to an extent, but actually have itself treated as a somewhat useful weapon when you’re close up. Have it actually fill a role at higher level play, while functioning as an all-around weapon for lower skill tiers.

3

> Automatic Weapons provide new, casual, and less skilled players with the ability to get used to the game.

Nope, sorry, I already disagree there. Specifically talking about the AR, it’s designed as a utility weapon to be average at all ranges and not dominate any one range. Also, it comfortably fits in best with the “Golden Triangle” of Halo and encourages you to think about the best possibly solution to go by in the current situation you’re in. If you’d prefer an automatic weapon that’s better at a particular range then you should explore the map and pick up that weapon to use.

4

> > Automatic Weapons provide new, casual, and less skilled players with the ability to get used to the game.
>
> Nope, sorry, I already disagree there. Specifically talking about the AR, it’s designed as a utility weapon to be average at all ranges and not dominate any one range. Also, it comfortably fits in best with the “Golden Triangle” of Halo and encourages you to think about the best possibly solution to go by in the current situation you’re in. If you’d prefer an automatic weapon that’s better at a particular range then you should explore the map and pick up that weapon to use.

If it’s supposed to be average at all ranges, how come it’s completely incapable of long ranged combat?

Precision Weapons are meant to be useful at all ranges, and they fit MUCH better with the Golden Triangle. The Magnum/BR/DMR have never once promoted running in a straight line and Meleeing. Halo 3 and Reach’s AR promote the hell out of that. Instead the Precision Weapons promote Meleeing when appropriate, or dying.

That and Grenades and the AR don’t mesh at all. With ARs it’s either Spam Grenades, or just chase and spray, never combining them together, with Precision Weapons, grenade/headshots, or finishing people who get around corners by NOT chasing them is viable.

5

> > > Automatic Weapons provide new, casual, and less skilled players with the ability to get used to the game.
> >
> > Nope, sorry, I already disagree there. Specifically talking about the AR, it’s designed as a utility weapon to be average at all ranges and not dominate any one range. Also, it comfortably fits in best with the “Golden Triangle” of Halo and encourages you to think about the best possibly solution to go by in the current situation you’re in. If you’d prefer an automatic weapon that’s better at a particular range then you should explore the map and pick up that weapon to use.
>
> If it’s supposed to be average at all ranges, how come it’s completely incapable of long ranged combat?
>
> Precision Weapons are meant to be useful at all ranges, and they fit MUCH better with the Golden Triangle. The Magnum/BR/DMR have never once promoted running in a straight line and Meleeing. Halo 3 and Reach’s AR promote the hell out of that. Instead the Precision Weapons promote Meleeing when appropriate, or dying.
>
> That and Grenades and the AR don’t mesh at all. With ARs it’s either Spam Grenades, or just chase and spray, never combining them together, with Precision Weapons, grenade/headshots, or finishing people who get around corners by NOT chasing them is viable.

Completely incapable is an exaggeration. I have managed to get plenty of kills at incredible long ranges with the AR. It is hitscan afterall.

Precision weapons have always implied long range combat. Usefull at long ranges and viable at medium ranges.
AR doesn’t promote “death charges”, bleedthrough does. Take that out and it doesn’t work anymore. I’ve won plenty of fights by being patient and outplaying the other player. He runs in for the melee and only breaks my shields, while I keep firing and melee once the shields are down. Sometimes hearing an expressive surprise.

6

> > > > Automatic Weapons provide new, casual, and less skilled players with the ability to get used to the game.
> > >
> > > Nope, sorry, I already disagree there. Specifically talking about the AR, it’s designed as a utility weapon to be average at all ranges and not dominate any one range. Also, it comfortably fits in best with the “Golden Triangle” of Halo and encourages you to think about the best possibly solution to go by in the current situation you’re in. If you’d prefer an automatic weapon that’s better at a particular range then you should explore the map and pick up that weapon to use.
> >
> > If it’s supposed to be average at all ranges, how come it’s completely incapable of long ranged combat?
> >
> > Precision Weapons are meant to be useful at all ranges, and they fit MUCH better with the Golden Triangle. The Magnum/BR/DMR have never once promoted running in a straight line and Meleeing. Halo 3 and Reach’s AR promote the hell out of that. Instead the Precision Weapons promote Meleeing when appropriate, or dying.
> >
> > That and Grenades and the AR don’t mesh at all. With ARs it’s either Spam Grenades, or just chase and spray, never combining them together, with Precision Weapons, grenade/headshots, or finishing people who get around corners by NOT chasing them is viable.
>
> Completely incapable is an exaggeration. I have managed to get plenty of kills at incredible long ranges with the AR. It is hitscan afterall.
>
> Precision weapons have always implied long range combat. Usefull at long ranges and viable at medium ranges.
> AR doesn’t promote “death charges”, bleedthrough does. Take that out and it doesn’t work anymore. I’ve won plenty of fights by being patient and outplaying the other player. He runs in for the melee and only breaks my shields, while I keep firing and melee once the shields are down. Sometimes hearing an expressive surprise.

Bleedthough doesn’t promote charges. If it did people still wouldn’t AR charge all the time in Reach. That and the only reason Bleedthrough was so bad in Halo 3 was because Melee damage in Halo 3 and Reach is ridiculously strong. Far stronger than it should be. Melee should do 40% total damage to a player, not 70%.

The fact is, precision weapons have the exact same kill time at all ranges. The AR’s kill time peaks up close at an average kill time, then gets slower, and slower, and more and more useless farther away, because it’s a Close Range Niche, not a Utility.

7

> > > > > Automatic Weapons provide new, casual, and less skilled players with the ability to get used to the game.
> > > >
> > > > Nope, sorry, I already disagree there. Specifically talking about the AR, it’s designed as a utility weapon to be average at all ranges and not dominate any one range. Also, it comfortably fits in best with the “Golden Triangle” of Halo and encourages you to think about the best possibly solution to go by in the current situation you’re in. If you’d prefer an automatic weapon that’s better at a particular range then you should explore the map and pick up that weapon to use.
> > >
> > > If it’s supposed to be average at all ranges, how come it’s completely incapable of long ranged combat?
> > >
> > > Precision Weapons are meant to be useful at all ranges, and they fit MUCH better with the Golden Triangle. The Magnum/BR/DMR have never once promoted running in a straight line and Meleeing. Halo 3 and Reach’s AR promote the hell out of that. Instead the Precision Weapons promote Meleeing when appropriate, or dying.
> > >
> > > That and Grenades and the AR don’t mesh at all. With ARs it’s either Spam Grenades, or just chase and spray, never combining them together, with Precision Weapons, grenade/headshots, or finishing people who get around corners by NOT chasing them is viable.
> >
> > Completely incapable is an exaggeration. I have managed to get plenty of kills at incredible long ranges with the AR. It is hitscan afterall.
> >
> > Precision weapons have always implied long range combat. Usefull at long ranges and viable at medium ranges.
> > AR doesn’t promote “death charges”, bleedthrough does. Take that out and it doesn’t work anymore. I’ve won plenty of fights by being patient and outplaying the other player. He runs in for the melee and only breaks my shields, while I keep firing and melee once the shields are down. Sometimes hearing an expressive surprise.
>
> Bleedthough doesn’t promote charges. If it did people still wouldn’t AR charge all the time in Reach. That and the only reason Bleedthrough was so bad in Halo 3 was because Melee damage in Halo 3 and Reach is ridiculously strong. Far stronger than it should be. Melee should do 40% total damage to a player, not 70%.

I’ve always been in favour of reducing melee damage down to 50% or 75%, bleedthrough or not (personally I dislike bleedthrough regardless). But as it stands with bleedthrough it encourages people to rush down and melee as quick as possible.

8

> > > > > > Automatic Weapons provide new, casual, and less skilled players with the ability to get used to the game.
> > > > >
> > > > > Nope, sorry, I already disagree there. Specifically talking about the AR, it’s designed as a utility weapon to be average at all ranges and not dominate any one range. Also, it comfortably fits in best with the “Golden Triangle” of Halo and encourages you to think about the best possibly solution to go by in the current situation you’re in. If you’d prefer an automatic weapon that’s better at a particular range then you should explore the map and pick up that weapon to use.
> > > >
> > > > If it’s supposed to be average at all ranges, how come it’s completely incapable of long ranged combat?
> > > >
> > > > Precision Weapons are meant to be useful at all ranges, and they fit MUCH better with the Golden Triangle. The Magnum/BR/DMR have never once promoted running in a straight line and Meleeing. Halo 3 and Reach’s AR promote the hell out of that. Instead the Precision Weapons promote Meleeing when appropriate, or dying.
> > > >
> > > > That and Grenades and the AR don’t mesh at all. With ARs it’s either Spam Grenades, or just chase and spray, never combining them together, with Precision Weapons, grenade/headshots, or finishing people who get around corners by NOT chasing them is viable.
> > >
> > > Completely incapable is an exaggeration. I have managed to get plenty of kills at incredible long ranges with the AR. It is hitscan afterall.
> > >
> > > Precision weapons have always implied long range combat. Usefull at long ranges and viable at medium ranges.
> > > AR doesn’t promote “death charges”, bleedthrough does. Take that out and it doesn’t work anymore. I’ve won plenty of fights by being patient and outplaying the other player. He runs in for the melee and only breaks my shields, while I keep firing and melee once the shields are down. Sometimes hearing an expressive surprise.
> >
> > Bleedthough doesn’t promote charges. If it did people still wouldn’t AR charge all the time in Reach. That and the only reason Bleedthrough was so bad in Halo 3 was because Melee damage in Halo 3 and Reach is ridiculously strong. Far stronger than it should be. Melee should do 40% total damage to a player, not 70%.
>
> I’ve always been in favour of reducing melee damage down to 50% or 75%, bleedthrough or not (personally I dislike bleedthrough regardless). But as it stands with bleedthrough it encourages people to rush down and melee as quick as possible.

Halo Reach doesn’t have Bleedthrough right now. They removed it from the Title Update, and Rushing Down and Meleeing is still predominant as hell in AR starts. So I don’t think it’s the Bleedthrough promoting it.

9

> > > > > > > Automatic Weapons provide new, casual, and less skilled players with the ability to get used to the game.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Nope, sorry, I already disagree there. Specifically talking about the AR, it’s designed as a utility weapon to be average at all ranges and not dominate any one range. Also, it comfortably fits in best with the “Golden Triangle” of Halo and encourages you to think about the best possibly solution to go by in the current situation you’re in. If you’d prefer an automatic weapon that’s better at a particular range then you should explore the map and pick up that weapon to use.
> > > > >
> > > > > If it’s supposed to be average at all ranges, how come it’s completely incapable of long ranged combat?
> > > > >
> > > > > Precision Weapons are meant to be useful at all ranges, and they fit MUCH better with the Golden Triangle. The Magnum/BR/DMR have never once promoted running in a straight line and Meleeing. Halo 3 and Reach’s AR promote the hell out of that. Instead the Precision Weapons promote Meleeing when appropriate, or dying.
> > > > >
> > > > > That and Grenades and the AR don’t mesh at all. With ARs it’s either Spam Grenades, or just chase and spray, never combining them together, with Precision Weapons, grenade/headshots, or finishing people who get around corners by NOT chasing them is viable.
> > > >
> > > > Completely incapable is an exaggeration. I have managed to get plenty of kills at incredible long ranges with the AR. It is hitscan afterall.
> > > >
> > > > Precision weapons have always implied long range combat. Usefull at long ranges and viable at medium ranges.
> > > > AR doesn’t promote “death charges”, bleedthrough does. Take that out and it doesn’t work anymore. I’ve won plenty of fights by being patient and outplaying the other player. He runs in for the melee and only breaks my shields, while I keep firing and melee once the shields are down. Sometimes hearing an expressive surprise.
> > >
> > > Bleedthough doesn’t promote charges. If it did people still wouldn’t AR charge all the time in Reach. That and the only reason Bleedthrough was so bad in Halo 3 was because Melee damage in Halo 3 and Reach is ridiculously strong. Far stronger than it should be. Melee should do 40% total damage to a player, not 70%.
> >
> > I’ve always been in favour of reducing melee damage down to 50% or 75%, bleedthrough or not (personally I dislike bleedthrough regardless). But as it stands with bleedthrough it encourages people to rush down and melee as quick as possible.
>
> Halo Reach doesn’t have Bleedthrough right now. They removed it from the Title Update, and Rushing Down and Meleeing is still predominant as hell in AR starts. So I don’t think it’s the Bleedthrough promoting it.

Just because some people still think it’s a viable option, doesn’t mean they’ll succeed. I actually rely on the other players being too impatient to wait for my shields to break to melee. I time it so that I’ll take as much damage as I can before moving in and letting them melee the final piece of my shield and kill them. Not only that, but if I know they’ll try and do that I’ll engage them at medium range so that they’ll be spending their time spraying and not pacing in order to win.

10

> > > > > > Automatic Weapons provide new, casual, and less skilled players with the ability to get used to the game.
> > > > >
> > > > > Nope, sorry, I already disagree there. Specifically talking about the AR, it’s designed as a utility weapon to be average at all ranges and not dominate any one range. Also, it comfortably fits in best with the “Golden Triangle” of Halo and encourages you to think about the best possibly solution to go by in the current situation you’re in. If you’d prefer an automatic weapon that’s better at a particular range then you should explore the map and pick up that weapon to use.
> > > >
> > > > If it’s supposed to be average at all ranges, how come it’s completely incapable of long ranged combat?
> > > >
> > > > Precision Weapons are meant to be useful at all ranges, and they fit MUCH better with the Golden Triangle. The Magnum/BR/DMR have never once promoted running in a straight line and Meleeing. Halo 3 and Reach’s AR promote the hell out of that. Instead the Precision Weapons promote Meleeing when appropriate, or dying.
> > > >
> > > > That and Grenades and the AR don’t mesh at all. With ARs it’s either Spam Grenades, or just chase and spray, never combining them together, with Precision Weapons, grenade/headshots, or finishing people who get around corners by NOT chasing them is viable.
> > >
> > > Completely incapable is an exaggeration. I have managed to get plenty of kills at incredible long ranges with the AR. It is hitscan afterall.
> > >
> > > Precision weapons have always implied long range combat. Usefull at long ranges and viable at medium ranges.
> > > AR doesn’t promote “death charges”, bleedthrough does. Take that out and it doesn’t work anymore. I’ve won plenty of fights by being patient and outplaying the other player. He runs in for the melee and only breaks my shields, while I keep firing and melee once the shields are down. Sometimes hearing an expressive surprise.
> >
> > Bleedthough doesn’t promote charges. If it did people still wouldn’t AR charge all the time in Reach. That and the only reason Bleedthrough was so bad in Halo 3 was because Melee damage in Halo 3 and Reach is ridiculously strong. Far stronger than it should be. Melee should do 40% total damage to a player, not 70%.
>
> I’ve always been in favour of reducing melee damage down to 50% or 75%, bleedthrough or not (personally I dislike bleedthrough regardless). But as it stands with bleedthrough it encourages people to rush down and melee as quick as possible.

You’re gonna have a ball in Halo 4, I bet.

11

Going to disagree with you based on a few things:

  1. Weapon differences. Both the AR and the precision weapons are completely different in functionality and how they kill. The AR is a close range precision TIMING weapon. The BR is a close-mid range precision AIMING weapon. Besides putting the reticule on the target, a player, there no real similarities between the two.

  2. no one likes to be tricked to be thinking a certain gun is better when it really isnt?

  3. there is already plenty of places to learn how.to play. You got campaign, spartan ops, and custom games to learn how to play. If those guys want to learn, they got those options. This further reduces the need of a.“learning tool”.

There is absolutely no reason the AR, or any gun in Halo, to be crappy. This game does not have the luxury of having 10+ guns of the same kind, nor is the game short on options to get people to learn to play.

I honestly believe Bungie had a fear that spray and pray was to be too dominant.t, so they needed the gun, completely unaware that you can mess.up on the precision weapons and still get 2 kills off some of those weapons without ever shooting.g the head. 343 has the tools at this point to make the AR and.similar weapons to be kept under control and be worthy of use. If they out the time and.effort into it, automatic weapons would actually be good to have around.

12

Ugh, that is a terrible design philosophy. You don’t set out to design a weapon that is easy to use and terrible.

No weapons should be significantly easier or harder to use as a whole. In certain situations? Yes. As a whole? No.

The best designed entry weapons are not any easier to use, they are middle of the road weapons. Jack of all trades and aces of none. Battlefield 3 did a great job with this. The M16A3 offers a great mix of rate of fire, reload, and controllable recoil. However lower rof weapons like the AK-74/Scar-L outperform it at range while the high rof weapons like the AEK/FAMAS outperform it at range. Each weapon can compete in nearly all circumstances when used to their full potential but their unique properties give them innate advantages in their niches.

The BR is actually the most likely to fill that middle of the road role. Burst Fire, headshot capable, scope. It offers a nice intersection of between the Autos and single shots. It shouldn’t be weaker because it is somehow easier to use.

That said the Auto weapons and the AR in particular have other ways to balance the lack of a need for the headshot. 1 they lack the range bonus given by scopes and 2 the tend to have a lower kill capacity than the headshot weapons.

13

> That and Grenades and the AR don’t mesh at all. With ARs it’s either Spam Grenades, or just chase and spray, never combining them together, with Precision Weapons, grenade/headshots, or finishing people who get around corners by NOT chasing them is viable.

What?
Grenades or melees to drop shields works great for softening a target with any lightweapon.
A quick burst on an unshielded player is slower to kill than a headshot, but shorter to kill than a missed shot and then headshot.
However once close to mid-range, melees aren’t viable and the spread may be too much to get the kill before a 2nd shot is landed against the head or even a 3rd body shot is had. But the latter is rare.
And that’s considering the AR and precision weapon both drop the other’s shields with a grenade or melee at the same time.