Automatics: A New System?

Games Halo 5: Guardians
1

In almost all of the past Halos, the best automatics have taken a backseat to precision weapons. The CE PR, while arguably the best non-power weapon auto, had to live up to the likes of the hand cannon. The Halo 2 SMG was nowhere near the level of the BR, especially with BXR. Halo 3… well… there’s a reason people wanted BR starts instead of AR starts. And don’t even get me started about Reach’s autos. Halo 4 is the first Halo game in a long series of Halo games to finally give automatics a small bit of usefulness. In the past, automatics in Halo have sort of been branded as the weapon choice for noobs due to their low skill gap (which leads on to a huge, debatable topic), and I’d like to see that change.

Being a big supporter of the Storm Rifle, I consider myself to have a fair amount of experience with automatics (in particular, the SR and Suppressor). In the case of both of these weapons, they simply suck pass rock throwing range. I’d be better off trying to chuck my sidearm at the opponents in most cases than to try to actually shoot at them. The combination of both ballistic projectiles and frustratingly random bloom prove to be very problematic. It is because of this that I asked myself what would happen if bloom was removed from automatics?

Instead of an automatic’s range being determined by how quickly its reticle increases in area, the projectile speed of the weapon would determine its range. The automatics would still retain their characteristic lethality inside of melee range, but at the same time have the accuracy to be able to extend into mid range with proper skill and target leading. The slower the projectile speed, the more difficult it is for the automatic to hit opponents at range, and the easier the automatic would be to out-strafe.

This would, theoretically, make automatics proportional to precision weapons. Where precision weapons’ skill gap is found in headshots, automatic weapons’ skill gap would be found in target leading. Where precision weapons’ niches are determined by damage per second and RRR, automatic weapons’s niches would be determined by dps and projectile speed.

Of course, some slight balancing tweaks would be needed such as increasing/decreasing dps, decreasing projectile speed, etc, but that is kind of expected in adopting a new system such as this. Any thoughts? Is this a good idea? Should I stay away from Halo and go back to fly fishing? What could be done to improve upon this idea?

2

I’d argue that in most halos the automatics weren’t completely useless.

In Halo CE the magnum certainly dominated in Multiplayer, but in Campaign or any situation where there wasn’t Magnum spawns the Plasma Rifle was fantastic.

In Halo 2 Dual Wield was perfectly capable of handling close quarters encounters with the Battle Rifle.

In Halo 3, Single Plasma Rifles, or Dual Plasmas were fairly effective, especially with the BR weaker than ever. Though the other Autos were pretty ineffective.

In Halo Reach, the Automatics were by far the weakest they’d ever been, though the Plasma Rifle - DMR/NR/Pistol combo was very effective, the other Automatics were all overshadowed, but not so weak they weren’t good enough if you had a good strafe, and got the jump on the enemy.

In Halo 4, the AR/Storm Rifle are actually very good weapons. They don’t have the spotlight because of a hardened pre-disposition to take Precision weapons over Automatics (mostly because of the utility valu), but both these weapons function great as primaries if you know how to burst-fire and modify your playstyle to work with them.

3

> I’d argue that in most halos the automatics weren’t completely useless.
>
> In Halo CE the magnum certainly dominated in Multiplayer, but in Campaign or any situation where there wasn’t Magnum spawns the Plasma Rifle was fantastic.
>
> In Halo 2 Dual Wield was perfectly capable of handling close quarters encounters with the Battle Rifle.
>
> <mark>In Halo 3, Single Plasma Rifles, or Dual Plasmas were fairly effective, especially with the BR weaker than ever. Though the other Autos were pretty ineffective.</mark>
>
> In Halo Reach, the Automatics were by far the weakest they’d ever been, though the Plasma Rifle - DMR/NR/Pistol combo was very effective, the other Automatics were all overshadowed, but not so weak they weren’t good enough if you had a good strafe, and got the jump on the enemy.
>
> In Halo 4, the AR/Storm Rifle are actually very good weapons. They don’t have the spotlight because of a hardened pre-disposition to take Precision weapons over Automatics (mostly because of the utility valu), but both these weapons function great as primaries if you know how to burst-fire and modify your playstyle to work with them.

I would never say that. What makes them ineffective would you say? Is it the map and it’s structure, your movements and placement, or the range and damage output of the weapon?

4

> > I’d argue that in most halos the automatics weren’t completely useless.
> >
> > In Halo CE the magnum certainly dominated in Multiplayer, but in Campaign or any situation where there wasn’t Magnum spawns the Plasma Rifle was fantastic.
> >
> > In Halo 2 Dual Wield was perfectly capable of handling close quarters encounters with the Battle Rifle.
> >
> > <mark>In Halo 3, Single Plasma Rifles, or Dual Plasmas were fairly effective, especially with the BR weaker than ever. Though the other Autos were pretty ineffective.</mark>
> >
> > In Halo Reach, the Automatics were by far the weakest they’d ever been, though the Plasma Rifle - DMR/NR/Pistol combo was very effective, the other Automatics were all overshadowed, but not so weak they weren’t good enough if you had a good strafe, and got the jump on the enemy.
> >
> > In Halo 4, the AR/Storm Rifle are actually very good weapons. They don’t have the spotlight because of a hardened pre-disposition to take Precision weapons over Automatics (mostly because of the utility valu), but both these weapons function great as primaries if you know how to burst-fire and modify your playstyle to work with them.
>
> I would never say that. What makes them ineffective would you say? Is it the map and it’s structure, your movements and placement, or the range and damage output of the weapon?

The PR in Halo 3 was a CQC beast actually. 3-4 shots would cripple shields and you could deliver the punch. Dual wielded PR’s was like facing a turret. If anything one could only say they were useless if they were out of range, or didn’t know how to use the gun.

5

> > > I’d argue that in most halos the automatics weren’t completely useless.
> > >
> > > In Halo CE the magnum certainly dominated in Multiplayer, but in Campaign or any situation where there wasn’t Magnum spawns the Plasma Rifle was fantastic.
> > >
> > > In Halo 2 Dual Wield was perfectly capable of handling close quarters encounters with the Battle Rifle.
> > >
> > > <mark>In Halo 3, Single Plasma Rifles, or Dual Plasmas were fairly effective, especially with the BR weaker than ever. Though the other Autos were pretty ineffective.</mark>
> > >
> > > In Halo Reach, the Automatics were by far the weakest they’d ever been, though the Plasma Rifle - DMR/NR/Pistol combo was very effective, the other Automatics were all overshadowed, but not so weak they weren’t good enough if you had a good strafe, and got the jump on the enemy.
> > >
> > > In Halo 4, the AR/Storm Rifle are actually very good weapons. They don’t have the spotlight because of a hardened pre-disposition to take Precision weapons over Automatics (mostly because of the utility valu), but both these weapons function great as primaries if you know how to burst-fire and modify your playstyle to work with them.
> >
> > I would never say that. What makes them ineffective would you say? Is it the map and it’s structure, your movements and placement, or the range and damage output of the weapon?
>
> The PR in Halo 3 was a CQC beast actually. 3-4 shots would cripple shields and you could deliver the punch. Dual wielded PR’s was like facing a turret. If anything one could only say they were useless if they were out of range, or didn’t know how to use the gun.

This, it was hands down the most automatic Beat-Down automatic in the game. It could also drain shields fast enough to swap-headshot and beat 4 shots. And it suffered the smallest damage loss from Dual Wield, resulting in the fastest Automatic killtime in the game provided you’re able to lead your shots.

6

> > > > I’d argue that in most halos the automatics weren’t completely useless.
> > > >
> > > > In Halo CE the magnum certainly dominated in Multiplayer, but in Campaign or any situation where there wasn’t Magnum spawns the Plasma Rifle was fantastic.
> > > >
> > > > In Halo 2 Dual Wield was perfectly capable of handling close quarters encounters with the Battle Rifle.
> > > >
> > > > <mark>In Halo 3, Single Plasma Rifles, or Dual Plasmas were fairly effective, especially with the BR weaker than ever. Though the other Autos were pretty ineffective.</mark>
> > > >
> > > > In Halo Reach, the Automatics were by far the weakest they’d ever been, though the Plasma Rifle - DMR/NR/Pistol combo was very effective, the other Automatics were all overshadowed, but not so weak they weren’t good enough if you had a good strafe, and got the jump on the enemy.
> > > >
> > > > In Halo 4, the AR/Storm Rifle are actually very good weapons. They don’t have the spotlight because of a hardened pre-disposition to take Precision weapons over Automatics (mostly because of the utility valu), but both these weapons function great as primaries if you know how to burst-fire and modify your playstyle to work with them.
> > >
> > > I would never say that. What makes them ineffective would you say? Is it the map and it’s structure, your movements and placement, or the range and damage output of the weapon?
> >
> > The PR in Halo 3 was a CQC beast actually. 3-4 shots would cripple shields and you could deliver the punch. Dual wielded PR’s was like facing a turret. If anything one could only say they were useless if they were out of range, or didn’t know how to use the gun.
>
> This, it was hands down the most automatic Beat-Down automatic in the game. It could also drain shields fast enough to swap-headshot and beat 4 shots. And it suffered the smallest damage loss from Dual Wield, resulting in the fastest Automatic killtime in the game provided you’re able to lead your shots.

I am sorry, I shouldn’t have quoted all of the paragraph when I really only wanted to know more about this statement: “Though the other Autos were pretty ineffective.”.

7

“AHEM!”

I said i would support the -Yoink- OUT OF THIS and i am.

8

Maybe I shouldn’t have started the post off bashing autos in past Halos haha. That’s a debate that I wasn’t aiming for. Anyways, any thoughts on the idea proposed in the post?

9

> Maybe I shouldn’t have started the post off bashing autos in past Halos haha. That’s a debate that I wasn’t aiming for. Anyways, any thoughts on the idea proposed in the post?

IMO you hit the Grunt on the Head with the Gravity Hammer. I got your back on this, but that means little as i’m sure you know. What you need is the community.

10

I see nothing inherently wrong with the idea. It would balance the autos enough were a more significant amount of aim-assist to be dropped.

11

A way to balance and put the automatics on-par with the precision rifles without compromising their traditional design e.g. putting a scope on the Assault Rifle? I like this idea.

Really, so long as they can (and I think they can) make them equally as skillful to use as the precision rifles (less aim-assist?), then I only have one concern: how will this increase in effective range affect the damage output aspect of the balancing? Then again, they could maintain the current (or close to it) damage and bring back “de-scope” to balance it… I suppose there are some variables that would need toying with to achieve the desired effect while maintaining balance and each weapon’s niche.

12

> In Halo 4, the AR/Storm Rifle are actually very good weapons. They don’t have the spotlight because of a hardened pre-disposition to take Precision weapons over Automatics (mostly because of the utility valu), but both these weapons function great as primaries if you know how to burst-fire and modify your playstyle to work with them.

I’m not seeing it. I’m constantly destroyed by precisions at any sort of range beyond very close.

Their kill times are marginally faster than the precision weapons at full auto and while SCBing extends their range, it destroys their kill times and results in a lose-lose scenario at any decent range for automatics.

Just about the only weapon that I can SCB with and still maintain a decent kill time is the SAW.

And personally, I’ve been pondering the idea of really blurring the lines between automatic and precision. Greatly reduce the reticule size of automatics to increase their range but really ramp up the bloom, up projectile speed, and allow headshot damage bonuses.

13

> A way to balance and put the automatics on-par with the precision rifles without compromising their traditional design e.g. putting a scope on the Assault Rifle? I like this idea.
>
> Really, so long as they can (and I think they can) make them equally as skillful to use as the precision rifles (less aim-assist?), then I only have one concern: how will this increase in effective range affect the damage output aspect of the balancing? Then again, they could maintain the current (or close to it) damage and bring back “de-scope” to balance it… I suppose there are some variables that would need toying with to achieve the desired effect while maintaining balance and each weapon’s niche.

Many variables indeed. But lets put a bullet limit on descope maybe. Only a certain amount of shoots to pull a player out of it. But the range on automatics should have some depth. Upgrade them by known factions tech.

Assault Rifle-Close unless burst rifled…becomes most precise Automatic.

Storm Rifle/Repeater/Plasma Rifle-Close to Mid- Close just like we have now and an aim assist icon like in Reach for mid.

Suppressor/SMG-All Ranges, but takes more rounds to kill, bigger spread the longer players fire.

SAW-Strongest but biggest Spread 1st Person automatic.

Human Turret-Strongest against infantry, very accurate.

Plasma Turret-Strongest against vehicles, large spread.

14

> > In Halo 4, the AR/Storm Rifle are actually very good weapons. They don’t have the spotlight because of a hardened pre-disposition to take Precision weapons over Automatics (mostly because of the utility valu), but both these weapons function great as primaries if you know how to burst-fire and modify your playstyle to work with them.
>
> I’m not seeing it. I’m constantly destroyed by precisions at any sort of range beyond very close.
>
> Their kill times are marginally faster than the precision weapons at full auto and while SCBing extends their range, it destroys their kill times and results in a lose-lose scenario at any decent range for automatics.
>
> Just about the only weapon that I can SCB with and still maintain a decent kill time is the SAW.
>
> And personally, I’ve been pondering the idea of really blurring the lines between automatic and precision. Greatly reduce the reticule size of automatics to increase their range but really ramp up the bloom, up projectile speed, and allow headshot damage bonuses.

Whether or not someone believes a weapon is underpower or overpowered is higly impacted by skill.

To me the AR feels perfect in Halo 3, but while I do love the AR: I personally feel it is way too strong in Halo 4. I am using it as my secondary weapon in Halo 4 and feel sorry for everyone who gets overrun by the AR’s wrath.

The questions then becomes: Should they adjust the weapon with the top Halo players in mind or the beginners? Should the weapon become good when you have proceed through a big learning curv or should they be easy off the bat?

This was a game I played for the sake of the AR and BR balance debate in Halo 3.

15

> > In Halo 4, the AR/Storm Rifle are actually very good weapons. They don’t have the spotlight because of a hardened pre-disposition to take Precision weapons over Automatics (mostly because of the utility valu), but both these weapons function great as primaries if you know how to burst-fire and modify your playstyle to work with them.
>
> I’m not seeing it. I’m constantly destroyed by precisions at any sort of range beyond very close.
>
> Their kill times are marginally faster than the precision weapons at full auto and while SCBing extends their range, it destroys their kill times and results in a lose-lose scenario at any decent range for automatics.
>
> Just about the only weapon that I can SCB with and still maintain a decent kill time is the SAW.
>
> And personally, I’ve been pondering the idea of really blurring the lines between automatic and precision. Greatly reduce the reticule size of automatics to increase their range but really ramp up the bloom, up projectile speed, and allow headshot damage bonuses.

Even if you go by melee, punch firing several rounds to punch one squeeze on the trigger.

What needs to be done is one of two things.

  1. Buff Automatics to what you see

or

  1. Nerf Precisions
16

> > > In Halo 4, the AR/Storm Rifle are actually very good weapons. They don’t have the spotlight because of a hardened pre-disposition to take Precision weapons over Automatics (mostly because of the utility valu), but both these weapons function great as primaries if you know how to burst-fire and modify your playstyle to work with them.
> >
> > I’m not seeing it. I’m constantly destroyed by precisions at any sort of range beyond very close.
> >
> > Their kill times are marginally faster than the precision weapons at full auto and while SCBing extends their range, it destroys their kill times and results in a lose-lose scenario at any decent range for automatics.
> >
> > Just about the only weapon that I can SCB with and still maintain a decent kill time is the SAW.
> >
> > And personally, I’ve been pondering the idea of really blurring the lines between automatic and precision. Greatly reduce the reticule size of automatics to increase their range but really ramp up the bloom, up projectile speed, and allow headshot damage bonuses.
>
> Whether or not someone believes a weapon is underpower or overpowered is higly impacted by skill.
>
> To me the AR feels perfect in Halo 3, but while I do love the AR: I personally feel it is way too strong in Halo 4.

If you really have a love for the AR you will understand that their needs to be change in this house. If you love something…don’t you want the best for it. I love Automatics and i want the best for them. I love precisions, but they have been far too dominate for almost a decade now. If that isn’t sad i don’t know what is. If it really is skill, than it wouldn’t matter if the precisions got a damage nerf.

17

> > > > > I’d argue that in most halos the automatics weren’t completely useless.
> > > > >
> > > > > In Halo CE the magnum certainly dominated in Multiplayer, but in Campaign or any situation where there wasn’t Magnum spawns the Plasma Rifle was fantastic.
> > > > >
> > > > > In Halo 2 Dual Wield was perfectly capable of handling close quarters encounters with the Battle Rifle.
> > > > >
> > > > > <mark>In Halo 3, Single Plasma Rifles, or Dual Plasmas were fairly effective, especially with the BR weaker than ever. Though the other Autos were pretty ineffective.</mark>
> > > > >
> > > > > In Halo Reach, the Automatics were by far the weakest they’d ever been, though the Plasma Rifle - DMR/NR/Pistol combo was very effective, the other Automatics were all overshadowed, but not so weak they weren’t good enough if you had a good strafe, and got the jump on the enemy.
> > > > >
> > > > > In Halo 4, the AR/Storm Rifle are actually very good weapons. They don’t have the spotlight because of a hardened pre-disposition to take Precision weapons over Automatics (mostly because of the utility valu), but both these weapons function great as primaries if you know how to burst-fire and modify your playstyle to work with them.
> > > >
> > > > I would never say that. What makes them ineffective would you say? Is it the map and it’s structure, your movements and placement, or the range and damage output of the weapon?
> > >
> > > The PR in Halo 3 was a CQC beast actually. 3-4 shots would cripple shields and you could deliver the punch. Dual wielded PR’s was like facing a turret. If anything one could only say they were useless if they were out of range, or didn’t know how to use the gun.
> >
> > This, it was hands down the most automatic Beat-Down automatic in the game. It could also drain shields fast enough to swap-headshot and beat 4 shots. And it suffered the smallest damage loss from Dual Wield, resulting in the fastest Automatic killtime in the game provided you’re able to lead your shots.
>
> I am sorry, I shouldn’t have quoted all of the paragraph when I really only wanted to know more about this statement: “Though the other Autos were pretty ineffective.”.

Well the AR, SMG, and Spiker were all pretty much useless compared to the BR. That’s pretty much all I meant. Even up close a 2 shot beat-down would at least guarantee a tie with an AR’s 6 shot beat down. And SMGs and Spikers were no better off in any way than an AR.

18

> > > > > > I’d argue that in most halos the automatics weren’t completely useless.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > In Halo CE the magnum certainly dominated in Multiplayer, but in Campaign or any situation where there wasn’t Magnum spawns the Plasma Rifle was fantastic.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > In Halo 2 Dual Wield was perfectly capable of handling close quarters encounters with the Battle Rifle.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > <mark>In Halo 3, Single Plasma Rifles, or Dual Plasmas were fairly effective, especially with the BR weaker than ever. Though the other Autos were pretty ineffective.</mark>
> > > > > >
> > > > > > In Halo Reach, the Automatics were by far the weakest they’d ever been, though the Plasma Rifle - DMR/NR/Pistol combo was very effective, the other Automatics were all overshadowed, but not so weak they weren’t good enough if you had a good strafe, and got the jump on the enemy.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > In Halo 4, the AR/Storm Rifle are actually very good weapons. They don’t have the spotlight because of a hardened pre-disposition to take Precision weapons over Automatics (mostly because of the utility valu), but both these weapons function great as primaries if you know how to burst-fire and modify your playstyle to work with them.
> > > > >
> > > > > I would never say that. What makes them ineffective would you say? Is it the map and it’s structure, your movements and placement, or the range and damage output of the weapon?
> > > >
> > > > The PR in Halo 3 was a CQC beast actually. 3-4 shots would cripple shields and you could deliver the punch. Dual wielded PR’s was like facing a turret. If anything one could only say they were useless if they were out of range, or didn’t know how to use the gun.
> > >
> > > This, it was hands down the most automatic Beat-Down automatic in the game. It could also drain shields fast enough to swap-headshot and beat 4 shots. And it suffered the smallest damage loss from Dual Wield, resulting in the fastest Automatic killtime in the game provided you’re able to lead your shots.
> >
> > I am sorry, I shouldn’t have quoted all of the paragraph when I really only wanted to know more about this statement: “Though the other Autos were pretty ineffective.”.
>
> Well the AR, SMG, and Spiker were all pretty much useless compared to the BR. That’s pretty much all I meant. Even up close a 2 shot beat-down would at least guarantee a tie with an AR’s 6 shot beat down. And SMGs and Spikers were no better off in any way than an AR.

I disagree. I think the AR and SMG were good alone. The SMG and Spiker were extremely good when dual wielded.

I do think that our belowed automatic weapons could have been more affected by the Halo 3’s netcode than the Battle rifle. The reason for why I believe that is that we always hear the term “Host AR”, but never “Host BR”.

It is either always “OMG HOST AR, HE KILLED ME SO FAST”, or “HE EATE SO MANY SHOTS, HE MUST BE HOST”.

Another reason for why I believe the automatics are more impacted by the Halo 3’s netcode is because of a match I just can’t get out of my head where I got absolutely destroyed in every one on one battle against the host of the game walking around with dual Spikers in a Social Slayer game long time ago. I honestly think I remember he killed me 12 times with dual spikers …

Since I’ve played so many games in halo 3 I feel I’ve got a fairly uniformed view of them, where I have ended up thinking that the automatics in Halo 3 actually is pretty good.

19

> > > > > > > I’d argue that in most halos the automatics weren’t completely useless.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > In Halo CE the magnum certainly dominated in Multiplayer, but in Campaign or any situation where there wasn’t Magnum spawns the Plasma Rifle was fantastic.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > In Halo 2 Dual Wield was perfectly capable of handling close quarters encounters with the Battle Rifle.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > <mark>In Halo 3, Single Plasma Rifles, or Dual Plasmas were fairly effective, especially with the BR weaker than ever. Though the other Autos were pretty ineffective.</mark>
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > In Halo Reach, the Automatics were by far the weakest they’d ever been, though the Plasma Rifle - DMR/NR/Pistol combo was very effective, the other Automatics were all overshadowed, but not so weak they weren’t good enough if you had a good strafe, and got the jump on the enemy.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > In Halo 4, the AR/Storm Rifle are actually very good weapons. They don’t have the spotlight because of a hardened pre-disposition to take Precision weapons over Automatics (mostly because of the utility valu), but both these weapons function great as primaries if you know how to burst-fire and modify your playstyle to work with them.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I would never say that. What makes them ineffective would you say? Is it the map and it’s structure, your movements and placement, or the range and damage output of the weapon?
> > > > >
> > > > > The PR in Halo 3 was a CQC beast actually. 3-4 shots would cripple shields and you could deliver the punch. Dual wielded PR’s was like facing a turret. If anything one could only say they were useless if they were out of range, or didn’t know how to use the gun.
> > > >
> > > > This, it was hands down the most automatic Beat-Down automatic in the game. It could also drain shields fast enough to swap-headshot and beat 4 shots. And it suffered the smallest damage loss from Dual Wield, resulting in the fastest Automatic killtime in the game provided you’re able to lead your shots.
> > >
> > > I am sorry, I shouldn’t have quoted all of the paragraph when I really only wanted to know more about this statement: “Though the other Autos were pretty ineffective.”.
> >
> > Well the AR, SMG, and Spiker were all pretty much useless compared to the BR. That’s pretty much all I meant. Even up close a 2 shot beat-down would at least guarantee a tie with an AR’s 6 shot beat down. And SMGs and Spikers were no better off in any way than an AR.
>
> I disagree. I think the AR and SMG were good alone. The SMG and Spiker were extremely good when dual wielded.
>
> I do think that our belowed automatic weapons could have been more affected by the Halo 3’s netcode than the Battle rifle. The reason for why I believe that is that we always hear the term “Host AR”, but never “Host BR”.
>
> It is either always “OMG HOST AR, HE KILLED ME SO FAST”, or “HE EATE SO MANY SHOTS, HE MUST BE HOST”.
>
> Another reason for why I believe the automatics are more impacted by the Halo 3’s netcode is because of a match I just can’t get out of my head where I got absolutely destroyed in every one on one battle against the host of the game walking around with dual Spikers in a Social Slayer game long time ago. I honestly think I remember he killed me 12 times with dual spikers …
>
> Since I’ve played so many games in halo 3 I feel I’ve got a fairly uniformed view of them, where I have ended up thinking that the automatics in Halo 3 actually is pretty good.

The SMG and the Spiker where the worst alone. The Spiker got worst in Reach as well. It was just a Covenant weapon that only should of been picked up when you had no other choice.

I’m sure the netcode had little affect. Like i said I’ve played thousands of Halo 3 games and blaming host for anything was pretty rare. Maybe i would hear it once every 20 games.

Well that whole paragraph is a little mixed up IMO but i think you are saying that in a Social Games when you fought a player that had Dual Spikers in 1v1 combat than you lost to the person. I’, just saying. That is one game, that guy was able to destroy in. I’m sure you’ve heard of the people bragging about how good their BR is- See thats another issue with Halo players now. They complain about equal starts and how weapons need to be on the map but those weapons on the map need to be stronger than the one you spawned with. They the automatics aren’t and are mostly ignored. people would rather drain someone else of all their blood than give a drop of their own.

Automatics in Halo 3 were just as bad as in 2 and Reach. Nothing changed and with the thinking you have nothing will. They only seem over powered now because people are just now getting killed by them. So the blame the people using them for having a lack of skill, saying their precision weapons are the only weapons that take skill. In case you haven’t noticed this is madness at its peak.

We all know which one is better by far but yet all the precision lovers want it to remain dominate instead of bringing the guns on fair grounds.

There are two golden triangles. Both of these have been harmed drastically.

Grenades,Melee,Guns 33%,33%,33%
Precision,Automatics,Power ?,?,?

the first three have been hurt by equipment and AA’s, the second by favorite. Just look at the Power weapons now. Look at the past of all three of the weapons. Which one hasn’t changed and is at the far bottom. I put up those numbers because of the chances of getting kills with each one of the others equally spread across the map or just simply available to players.

So lets figure out how it would go if players got to choose which weapons they spawned with.

Would players go for the Precision & Power, Automatic & Power or Precision & Automatic.

20

I found Halo 3’s AR to be adequate once you found the sweet spot. Spiker and Needler were other autos of note, but the rest was rather blah, IMHO.

The key to making autos stand out is map & weapon placement. For example, in Halo 3, AR/pistol starts were common. They worked, because the handful of BRs on the map did not upset the competitive balance. In Halo 4, however, few use the autos because they can choose to start with the DMR or BR.

So if you ask me, Halo 5’s autos can follow any of the past Halos in terms of power/RRR/ROF, etc. But make sure you A) put them on maps that promote close quarters combat, and B) leave off the scoped rifles as a loadout/starting option.