Playing in Onyx level 3v3 now, and almost every game 1 to 2 players on a team go all banshees.
That’s fine, that’s strategy.
In a recent game, our team was ahead. I was close to taking out an opponent’s main. Then, I saw that the other two players (both Atriox) went ALL banshees. I went 90% anti-air. Had fully upgraded reavers sitting under a base with three shield generators, and at least some of my teammates army there as well. Two Atriox Banshee spams came in and with dying breath, invincibility, and double eradication, I lost everything. I think they hardly lost any of their army.
Other than hitting one of them first, before the air/leader-power spam hits, what could I have done differently?
It isn’t hard to spam banshees in 3s, and with Atriox’s fortification upgrades it takes no time. The regular method is just spam choppers then spam banshees.
This doesn’t always work, of course. I’ve stopped banshee spams plenty of times. But, this, with all the Atriox abilities just seemed a bit much.
I’m not a fan of the “buff reavers” argument, or the nerf Atriox argument, but…what’s the best counter here?
I feel like it shouldn’t be that once an Atriox player reaches a certain point it can be near game over.
Isn’t that also the case with Isabel’s tanks right now?
Wait until you run into a decimus player with an army of banshees with all his passives… it’s a nightmare in 3’s. I usually go all air once I pick up on this to fight fire with fire, plus it’s easier to avoid leader powers with air.
Hmmm…I don’t have much (if any) experience with team battles, but to be able to drop all of those powers in short succession requires an outrageous amount of resources. I’d maybe harass a bit more to make sure they don’t have a large pool of resources.
Take that with a grain of salt though.
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> Wait until you run into a decimus player with an army of banshees with all his passives… it’s a nightmare in 3’s.
I have! It’s so good/infuriating with upgraded Siphon. But, at least they do die.
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> Hmmm…I don’t have much (if any) experience with team battles, but to be able to drop all of those powers in short succession requires an outrageous amount of resources. I’d maybe harass a bit more to make sure they don’t have a large pool of resources.
>
> Take that with a grain of salt though.
I think that’s key. In this scenario, I was doing well against the non Atriox player. But, to be honest, I’m not sure what my teammates were doing. I think one was turtling for scarabs, but it just left the Atriox players alone for too long.
And then: Scarabs < Mass Banshees
This is what I was getting at in one of my topics. There’s just too many leader powers for each leader. I’m pretty sure if you went all locusts and did the same thing, minus the erads even, you could wipe the base. Unbreakable, then bulwark, then dying breath is plenty of time for locusts to rip apart a base.
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> This is what I was getting at in one of my topics. There’s just too many leader powers for each leader. I’m pretty sure if you went all locusts and did the same thing, minus the erads even, you could wipe the base. Unbreakable, then bulwark, then dying breath is plenty of time for locusts to rip apart a base.
That’s why you need to force them to spend resources on units and buildings instead of saving up for leader powers.
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> > This is what I was getting at in one of my topics. There’s just too many leader powers for each leader. I’m pretty sure if you went all locusts and did the same thing, minus the erads even, you could wipe the base. Unbreakable, then bulwark, then dying breath is plenty of time for locusts to rip apart a base.
>
> That’s why you need to force them to spend resources on units and buildings instead of saving up for leader powers.
10 locusts, T3, with all of those powers will take a base purely based on the time that they could stay alive and focused on the base. There’s nothing you can do to stop it unless you have mass engineers or nightingales, other than that they are invincible. After the base is gone you make an army to counter the army you saw at his base and then boom, he cant make more units while trying to get production up and you just steam roll. Lather rinse and repeat. I am speaking from experience. I’m not trying to sound hostile I’ve just been so upset at the number of leader powers and how nerfing damage wont help because there are just too many. If you nerf the damage down so they all do nothing, people will get upset because they wont seem like they are worth the money. Then they will lower the cost or something and you’ll be able to just spam powers for constant damage whenever you want and we will be back in the same loop. Halo wars 1 had very limited powers, and they could turn the tide of a game but only to really give you the slight upper hand, unless the other guy sucked and let the power just kill everything. But you only really got a slight upper hand, not the ability to steam roll.
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> > > This is what I was getting at in one of my topics. There’s just too many leader powers for each leader. I’m pretty sure if you went all locusts and did the same thing, minus the erads even, you could wipe the base. Unbreakable, then bulwark, then dying breath is plenty of time for locusts to rip apart a base.
> >
> > That’s why you need to force them to spend resources on units and buildings instead of saving up for leader powers.
>
> 10 locusts, T3, with all of those powers will take a base purely based on the time that they could stay alive and focused on the base. There’s nothing you can do to stop it unless you have mass engineers or nightingales, other than that they are invincible. After the base is gone you make an army to counter the army you saw at his base and then boom, he cant make more units while trying to get production up and you just steam roll. Lather rinse and repeat. I am speaking from experience. I’m not trying to sound hostile I’ve just been so upset at the number of leader powers and how nerfing damage wont help because there are just too many. If you nerf the damage down so they all do nothing, people will get upset because they wont seem like they are worth the money. Then they will lower the cost or something and you’ll be able to just spam powers for constant damage whenever you want and we will be back in the same loop. Halo wars 1 had very limited powers, and they could turn the tide of a game but only to really give you the slight upper hand, unless the other guy sucked and let the power just kill everything. But you only really got a slight upper hand, not the ability to steam roll.
I think this is different in teams and solo. In solo, leader powers are a different factor. Like Breezy said, it takes a huge amount of resources to do, and you need to be at a certain level of income production to be able to do the powers and then maintain a large army. In solos, that’s so tough, because you’re constantly doing a tug-of-war with your opponent, and income screw-ups will cost you quickly. Also, it’s harder to spam in solos because your opponent will be scouting you (ideally).
In teams, I get you Tricky. It’s not hard to spam a certain unit and then rely on leader powers, because the players are focused on multiple other players. Usually, at least one player on each team gets left alone long enough to mass income and spam. I played one recently where a guy pumped out around 15 scarabs throughout the course of the match, because he was able to sit back and turtle and rely on leader powers while his teammates went with mixed armies. Income production gets a lot higher in teams, and so those powers that keep your army alive forever are really important/annoying.
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> > > > This is what I was getting at in one of my topics. There’s just too many leader powers for each leader. I’m pretty sure if you went all locusts and did the same thing, minus the erads even, you could wipe the base. Unbreakable, then bulwark, then dying breath is plenty of time for locusts to rip apart a base.
> > >
> > > That’s why you need to force them to spend resources on units and buildings instead of saving up for leader powers.
> >
> > 10 locusts, T3, with all of those powers will take a base purely based on the time that they could stay alive and focused on the base. There’s nothing you can do to stop it unless you have mass engineers or nightingales, other than that they are invincible. After the base is gone you make an army to counter the army you saw at his base and then boom, he cant make more units while trying to get production up and you just steam roll. Lather rinse and repeat. I am speaking from experience. I’m not trying to sound hostile I’ve just been so upset at the number of leader powers and how nerfing damage wont help because there are just too many. If you nerf the damage down so they all do nothing, people will get upset because they wont seem like they are worth the money. Then they will lower the cost or something and you’ll be able to just spam powers for constant damage whenever you want and we will be back in the same loop. Halo wars 1 had very limited powers, and they could turn the tide of a game but only to really give you the slight upper hand, unless the other guy sucked and let the power just kill everything. But you only really got a slight upper hand, not the ability to steam roll.
>
> I think this is different in teams and solo. In solo, leader powers are a different factor. Like Breezy said, it takes a huge amount of resources to do, and you need to be at a certain level of income production to be able to do the powers and then maintain a large army. In solos, that’s so tough, because you’re constantly doing a tug-of-war with your opponent, and income screw-ups will cost you quickly. Also, it’s harder to spam in solos because your opponent will be scouting you (ideally).
>
> In teams, I get you Tricky. It’s not hard to spam a certain unit and then rely on leader powers, because the players are focused on multiple other players. Usually, at least one player on each team gets left alone long enough to mass income and spam. I played one recently where a guy pumped out around 15 scarabs throughout the course of the match, because he was able to sit back and turtle and rely on leader powers while his teammates went with mixed armies. Income production gets a lot higher in teams, and so those powers that keep your army alive forever are really important/annoying.
Yeah I was talking about teams since OP was talking about 3v3 and its the same for 2v2. Solos is tough to build up 2000+ supplies for resources for those powers while also making units for your push.
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> 10 locusts, T3, with all of those powers will take a base purely based on the time that they could stay alive and focused on the base. There’s nothing you can do to stop it unless you have mass engineers or nightingales, other than that they are invincible. After the base is gone you make an army to counter the army you saw at his base and then boom, he cant make more units while trying to get production up and you just steam roll. Lather rinse and repeat. I am speaking from experience. I’m not trying to sound hostile I’ve just been so upset at the number of leader powers and how nerfing damage wont help because there are just too many. If you nerf the damage down so they all do nothing, people will get upset because they wont seem like they are worth the money. Then they will lower the cost or something and you’ll be able to just spam powers for constant damage whenever you want and we will be back in the same loop. Halo wars 1 had very limited powers, and they could turn the tide of a game but only to really give you the slight upper hand, unless the other guy sucked and let the power just kill everything. But you only really got a slight upper hand, not the ability to steam roll.
Are you speaking of team matches or 1v1s? (Thanks Fungus for explaining the difference between the two 
)
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> > > >
> >
> > 10 locusts, T3, with all of those powers will take a base purely based on the time that they could stay alive and focused on the base. There’s nothing you can do to stop it unless you have mass engineers or nightingales, other than that they are invincible. After the base is gone you make an army to counter the army you saw at his base and then boom, he cant make more units while trying to get production up and you just steam roll. Lather rinse and repeat. I am speaking from experience. I’m not trying to sound hostile I’ve just been so upset at the number of leader powers and how nerfing damage wont help because there are just too many. If you nerf the damage down so they all do nothing, people will get upset because they wont seem like they are worth the money. Then they will lower the cost or something and you’ll be able to just spam powers for constant damage whenever you want and we will be back in the same loop. Halo wars 1 had very limited powers, and they could turn the tide of a game but only to really give you the slight upper hand, unless the other guy sucked and let the power just kill everything. But you only really got a slight upper hand, not the ability to steam roll.
>
> Are you speaking of team matches or 1v1s? (Thanks Fungus for explaining the difference between the two )
Well I know the difference I didn’t know you were talking solos, the OP was teams so I was talking teams.
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> > >
> > > 10 locusts, T3, with all of those powers will take a base purely based on the time that they could stay alive and focused on the base. There’s nothing you can do to stop it unless you have mass engineers or nightingales, other than that they are invincible. After the base is gone you make an army to counter the army you saw at his base and then boom, he cant make more units while trying to get production up and you just steam roll. Lather rinse and repeat. I am speaking from experience. I’m not trying to sound hostile I’ve just been so upset at the number of leader powers and how nerfing damage wont help because there are just too many. If you nerf the damage down so they all do nothing, people will get upset because they wont seem like they are worth the money. Then they will lower the cost or something and you’ll be able to just spam powers for constant damage whenever you want and we will be back in the same loop. Halo wars 1 had very limited powers, and they could turn the tide of a game but only to really give you the slight upper hand, unless the other guy sucked and let the power just kill everything. But you only really got a slight upper hand, not the ability to steam roll.
> >
> > Are you speaking of team matches or 1v1s? (Thanks Fungus for explaining the difference between the two )
>
> Well I know the difference I didn’t know you were talking solos, the OP was teams so I was talking teams.
Yeah I was talking solos, so you can forget my statement lol
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> > > > 10 locusts, T3, with all of those powers will take a base purely based on the time that they could stay alive and focused on the base. There’s nothing you can do to stop it unless you have mass engineers or nightingales, other than that they are invincible. After the base is gone you make an army to counter the army you saw at his base and then boom, he cant make more units while trying to get production up and you just steam roll. Lather rinse and repeat. I am speaking from experience. I’m not trying to sound hostile I’ve just been so upset at the number of leader powers and how nerfing damage wont help because there are just too many. If you nerf the damage down so they all do nothing, people will get upset because they wont seem like they are worth the money. Then they will lower the cost or something and you’ll be able to just spam powers for constant damage whenever you want and we will be back in the same loop. Halo wars 1 had very limited powers, and they could turn the tide of a game but only to really give you the slight upper hand, unless the other guy sucked and let the power just kill everything. But you only really got a slight upper hand, not the ability to steam roll.
> > >
> > > Are you speaking of team matches or 1v1s? (Thanks Fungus for explaining the difference between the two )
> >
> > Well I know the difference I didn’t know you were talking solos, the OP was teams so I was talking teams.
>
> Yeah I was talking solos, so you can forget my statement lol
I knew y’all know the difference. We all seem to be pretty aware of this game. For this post, I was griping about teams, but the solution is probably the same solution that we’d use in solos (constant pressure, don’t let players turtle).
I just have such a beef with Atriox these days…
This happened to me in a solo game last night - although I was Atriox and the other player rushed me with Banshees. I had been scouting and only saw infantry so I kept going for my chopper rush…but he had been building a secret army of Banshees and I had nothing to stop him with. Even though I had much better positioning than him before his attack, I couldn’t build counters quick enough.
Moral of the story: scout better, hate Banshees.