ARs Could Use Some Designer Love

Games Other Halo
15

> > I am going to have to disagree with you on that one man. The AR can RAPE. I thought my KD was going to suffer terribly since I am doing UNSC loadout mastery… But I started to murk people more than I would with the DMR at times. It’s all about how you use it. IMO it’s fine now, unlike previous Halos were it was rendered useless.
>
> It can perform adequately at short ranges, although I very frequently beat it with a magnum or a DMR.
>
> The problem is outside of that range, it’s useless.
>
> So let’s look just at the UNSC weaponry for a moment in a visual representation of how effective they can be.
>
> AR: Short Range - Adequate → Mid-range - Poor performance → Long Range - Useless
> BR: Short Range - Adequate → Mid-range - Effective → Long Range - Adequate
> DMR: Short Range - Effective → Mid-range - Effective → Long Range - Very Effective
>
> Even if the AR were very effective at short range (comparatively speaking, it isn’t), it still would be relatively ineffective at mid- and long-ranges. Even if we broke those ranges into thirds in terms of number of encounters that happen, the AR is relatively useless in two-thirds of your encounters. As a result, if you’re wielding this weapon, you are forced to pull out of these instances.
>
> This is poor design, as the weapon is so limiting, it’s limiting your engagement possibilities.
>
> A well-designed AR would offer players the ability to at least do something in the majority of encounters. Currently, the AR, storm rifle, and suppressor have players more often running away than fighting.

I agree with the points you both made. I’m glad you two are not flaming trolls and can actually hold a civil conversation.

The AR could use a small buff at short and mid range. Granted, it is a good gun at those ranges BUT I have also been beaten by an efficient DMR player at those ranges as well. And of course I need to get the drop on the enemy to come out alive. If he shoots first I might as well start tossing grenades and falling back. Which is exactly why I have resupply in my AR loadout. : /

> > I am going to have to disagree with you on that one man. The AR can RAPE. I thought my KD was going to suffer terribly since I am doing UNSC loadout mastery… But I started to murk people more than I would with the DMR at times. It’s all about how you use it. IMO it’s fine now, unlike previous Halos were it was rendered useless.
>
> The problem is the AR is useful in a very strict situation (you have to be close, and you more than likely need to shoot first of be going against an inferior shot). Even if you keep the weapon trained on your opponent, a solid DMR user can still take you out at the closest of ranges. But if you move beyond that effective range, its worthless. The DMR and BR are highly effective at their intended ranges, but don’t lose any of that effectiveness outside that range in the right hands. The AR lacks that versatility. Solely for the sake of ease of use? Greating tiers within weapon tiers is a sure fire way to get a weapon disregarded.
>
> Edit: of course Madman says the same thing I do.

16

Are you kidding? It can actually kill now. It works perfectly in close range area’s as intended. I almost always use it. All the primary weapons are perfectly balanced as they are. Just nerf the DMR and all will be fine. There’s no need to make the automatic weapons overpowered.

17

> Are you kidding? It can actually kill now. It works perfectly in close range area’s as intended. I almost always use it. All the primary weapons are perfectly balanced as they are. Just nerf the DMR and all will be fine. There’s no need to make the automatic weapons overpowered.

Did you read the OP’s point, or do you automatically assume changes mean making it overpowered? None of the proposed changes would make the AR more powerful in its current useful range, but would make it usable beyond its intended range, like every other weapon in its “tier”.

18

A little more damage? Maybe…

But you’re realy making them more like COD assault rifles. The X2 zoom is essentialy ironsights

19

> A little more damage? Maybe…
>
> But you’re realy making them more like COD assault rifles. The X2 zoom is essentialy ironsights

I agree with the small buffs but definitely not the zoom. That would then make the AR too over-powered.

20

> > A little more damage? Maybe…
> >
> > But you’re realy making them more like COD assault rifles. The X2 zoom is essentialy ironsights
>
> I agree with the small buffs but definitely not the zoom. That would then make the AR too over-powered.

Combined with it’s inaccuracy at range and the more dynamic spread, I really don’t think so. A 2x zoom would really just make burst-firing support at medium range feasible. Right now, it’s very, very unreliable and really not even worth it.

Everyone, understand the point here isn’t to make the ARs more powerful, but more flexible and give them more utility purpose.

Currently, sure the ARs perform all right in close range, but past that, they are relatively ineffective. This means you have a gun that, comparably, works OK at its intended range but can’t do anything else. The precision rifles work well in their intended ranges AND work reasonably well outside of their ranges.

Their flexibility and depth means choosing between an automatic and a precision rifle is really a no-brainer…if you want to give yourself the best chance to succeed.

21

Now usually in this situation I’d give a flat out <mark>NO</mark>. I’d tell you that the precision weapons take more skill and therefore players should be encouraged to use them by making them more effective. I’d also say as Halo is competitive game at its core the precision weapons need to stay better than full-auto guns to keep Halo on top of the rest of the competitive market.

However:

Seeing as competitive Halo is dead, loadouts are in the game and 343 has become set on making this game a CoD clone I think it is time that the AR earned its rightful pace among the precision weapons - why should I care anyway, I won’t be playing the next Halo game and I’m certainly not playing this one!

-Make the AR have high precision but quick expanding/retracting bloom forcing the user to burst fire over long ranges.

-Make the AR be more powerful when targeted at the head

-Lower the aim assist to the level of other precision weapons

-No zoom

-No extra damage to encourage players to aim for opponent’s heads

-Get rid of a two beat down melee system and bring back a three beat down kill melee system. (aka less melee damage to encourage more shooting and less shoot>beat down)

So go nuts, 343 certainly has.

22

> Now usually in this situation I’d give a flat out <mark>NO</mark>. I’d tell you that the precision weapons take more skill and therefore players should be encouraged to use them by making them more effective. I’d also say as Halo is competitive game at its core the precision weapons need to stay better than full-auto guns to keep Halo on top of the rest of the competitive market.

The whole point of these changes would be to make the automatic rifles respond better to player skill. In essence, using them effectively would require controlled, deliberate fire, meaning they could excel in a skilled player’s hands.

The whole point would be to make them attractive to a skilled player because they would require more skill to be effective. These changes would make the experience of using an automatic rifle richer and deeper and more rewarding.

Seeing how the automatic weapons are supposed to be on the same tier as the precision weapons, I would think these design changes would not only be appropriate but necessary to ensure the balance of the core weapon sandbox.

23

> But, automatic rifles have always worked this way!
> True story, but Halo has never had customizable loadouts that placed precision and automatic weapons on the same tier. In the past, automatic rifles were designed to be inferior to the precision rifles. It was part of the point of starting you off with one and giving you superior weapons to pick up around the map. Halo no longer operates on this principle in the core sandbox.

Halo has always had this tier separating weaponry, but it shouldn’t. The fact that it has been this way for the longest time goes, I suppose, to the difficulty in finding the proper balance between automatics and precision. The fact that we have loadouts shouldn’t make this valid now and not then.

This was my only nitpick in a thread full of what I support.

24

I usually use the ar, but I have to say it could certainly do with a tune up. Halo is set in the future, but in real terms an ak47 would run rings around the ar.

25

MADMAN, why aren’t you working for 343i? Why do you have to point these things out to them? Why do you have to give them a history lesson on Halo?

Geeze…

26

The assault rifle is as iconic as master chief himself. Fun Fact: The Assault Rifle is Johns preferred weapon of choice :stuck_out_tongue:

27

Didn’t they already do the dynamic spread? I mean compared to Reach where the bloom was slow in Halo 4 the bloom on the automatics are pretty much on par with what you want or do you want to make it even faster?

28

I absolutely hate the Assault Rifle. My K/D spread with it is -146 in Slayer and -93 in Regicide. Until the last Title Update I could use the Boltshot to defend myself. Now. . . not so much.
I remember 2 games of Regicide I had on Haven. In the first one I used the standard loadout: DMR/Boltshot and it completely failed. Of course, the first came those who used the Assault Rifle. I looked at the game report. 3 with AR, one with StormRifle and another with Boltshot like me. I said to myself “When you deal with n00bs, do what the n00bs do”. So I changed my weapon loadout to Assault Rifle. I managed to steal the win at the very end. That was my ONLY good game whan I used the AR, I usually can’t do well with it. I’m so used to precision that holding the trigger and spraying is something that I am not good at, even though it requires less accurate aiming. I do not want to say that everybody who uses an automatic weapon is a n00b, but I hate them so much that I can’t resist not raging and wanting revenge every time I am killed by such players.

29

> I absolutely hate the Assault Rifle. My K/D spread with it is -146 in Slayer and -93 in Regicide. Until the last Title Update I could use the Boltshot to defend myself. Now. . . not so much.
> I remember 2 games of Regicide I had on Haven. In the first one I used the standard loadout: DMR/Boltshot and it completely failed. Of course, the first came those who used the Assault Rifle. I looked at the game report. 3 with AR, one with StormRifle and another with Boltshot like me. I said to myself “When you deal with n00bs, do what the n00bs do”. So I changed my weapon loadout to Assault Rifle. I managed to steal the win at the very end. That was my ONLY good game whan I used the AR, I usually can’t do well with it. I’m so used to precision that holding the trigger and spraying is something that I am not good at, even though it requires less accurate aiming. I do not want to say that everybody who uses an automatic weapon is a n00b, but I hate them so much that I can’t resist not raging and wanting revenge every time I am killed by such players.

Same here… I can’t stand them but anyway I tend to go very positive on each game.
And to the rest here the AR is fine,it has never been so powerful. Giving it a buff would make it COD style where autos have long range and kill very fast.

30

> And to the rest here the AR is fine,it has never been so powerful. Giving it a buff would make it COD style where autos have long range and kill very fast.

No one suggested buffing the assault rifle, storm rifle, or suppressor. I suggested building more flexibility, utility, and depth into their designs.

Consider that the DMR is exceedingly useful at all ranges. The BR is useful at all ranges. The light rifle is useful at all ranges. The carbine is useful at all ranges.

Even at close range, the precision weapons fare pretty well.

The automatic rifles work decently at close range, but beyond that, they are utterly useless.

However, rather than buffing the guns so that they are more useful at mid-range, I’m proposing they be designed so that, as players advance, they can make the automatic rifles more useful in more instances that are outside of their niche.

Currently, they are very limited, and advanced players tend to abandon them because of their shallow, restrictive design.

31

Thanks for taking a jab at diversifying automatic weaponry in this game. Throughout the span of Halo’s franchise, I have advertised similar updates for many pieces of the sandbox. One of my more recent treks focused on a humongous sandbox upholding uniquely relevant diversity, competitive balance, and most importantly fun. Sadly, my ideas have been lost within many debates time after time.

I’d love to stick around and discuss possibilities for my beloved AR, but I haven’t the fortitude to spend much time here these days. Halo isn’t what it used to be. Instead of leaving you empty-handed, I’ll provide a glimpse into what Halo, the former definitive arena FPS, could be (perhaps even utilizing some of your alterations).

Beware, this is a pretty substantial glimpse:

It is my hope to make one crucial point about the sandbox in future Halo games. An ideal that we have all thought about in the back of our minds, yet have not really voiced too much. What is that? Variety is the spice of life. It is king. For the next trilogy, Halo’s sandbox does not need to be, strictly, minimized for competitive balance. The future Halo FPS genre should use a sandbox that blossoms with an extreme amount of competitive balanced variety. Please, hear me out. It’s not as complicated as it looks or sounds.

PART 1 - Know Your History

Every gamer that has sat down and taken the time to really play a Halo FPS has his/her own favorite preferences for campaign or multiplayer. Although we all share various similarities, no two gamers are exactly alike. We are our own masters. This belief is extremely relevant when discussing items in Halo’s sandbox; especially in regards to multiplayer.

Up until Reach, each Halo FPS has included greater sandbox variety in regards to weapons, vehicles, and extraneous equipment (powerups, H3 equipment, AAs, etc…). As many of you know, and have stated, a healthy balance between those various items, one in which there is no “best” selection, has not always been fully established…and rightfully so. When more variables are added into any equation, the correct answers become harder to find. Thankfully, there are solutions to these issues.

Bungie, in regards to Halo Reach, decided their solution to that issue would be to cut extraneous items from their sandbox. This would allow more time for focused observations of item balance during the course of development. Furthermore, they would be closer to achieving a more familiar feeling to Halo: CE than any prior FPS installments. All discrepancies and criticism aside, Halo Reach did just that. The sandbox was more familiar to Halo: CE than any other Halo FPS at that time. Their solution worked, but I’m here to explain another feasible route.

PART 2 - The More the Merrier

Close your eyes for a second (or go to the Halo Wiki), and think back of all the time you spent playing any of the FPS games during the Halo series. Recall your most memorable events. Do you remember what you loved the most in each Halo game? How did you play the game? What was your favorite sandbox item? Take a moment longer and remember…

Now, come back to me.

Imagine a Halo FPS that could incorporate your most beloved sandbox items; all of them. Weapons, vehicles, equipment, turrets, plasma shields, and, literally, almost every single item the sandbox has ever offered within the Halo universe. Think of a gaming environment that had all of that. At this point, your mind is either blown, you could care less, or your fuming with negativity and disbelief. Let’s go over some details.

The core belief, of this topic, about sandbox balance being key to gameplay is spot on. All items in the sandbox must be relevant and have their own unique rolls to fulfill. In addition, their should never be one weapon that is the most dominating force (aka the utility weapon) in the sandbox. However, there is no reason to limit ourselves so much when it comes to these items. Every single weapon, vehicle, and/or extraneous equipment, to date, can have its place in the same Halo FPS. I believe this can be seen through the usage of two examples. Stay with me. We’re just now getting to the fun stuff.

Disclaimer - The following examples are all subjective and reflect the opinion of this user. They will use range comparisons on the metric scale with word tags for ease of use. In terms of damage, a scale of very low to very high will be used. Details can be given upon request. All information gathered comes from official Halo lore. The user apologizes beforehand for any minor mistakes you may see.

Example #1 - UNSC Pistol/Magnum
Did you know that there are at least 12 different UNSC M6 pistol variants in the Halo universe? Would it surprise you if I told you that, currently, we’ve only used 4 of them? What if all 4 of them were in the same game? Let’s take a look at how that would work.

> M6C
> Magazine Size: 12
> Maximum Ammo: 60 Rounds
> Damage Threshold vs Flesh: Medium
> Damage Threshold vs Shields/Armor: Low
> Rate of Fire: Semi-Automatic
> Trigger RPM: Very Fast
> Effective Range: 19-23 Meters
> Maximum Range: 50-100 Meters
> Dual Wield Capacity: Yes
> Scope: N/A
>
> M6C/SOCOM
> Magazine Size: 12
> Maximum Ammo: 60 Rounds
> Damage Threshold vs Flesh: Medium
> Damage Threshold vs Shields/Armor: Low
> Rate of Fire: Semi-Automatic
> Trigger RPM: Average-Fast Double Action Only
> Effective Range: 30-50 Meters
> Maximum Range: 60-115 Meters
> Dual Wield Capacity: N/A
> Scope: Smart-Link 4x Scope
>
> M6D
> Magazine Size: 12
> Maximum Ammo: 132 Rounds
> Damage Threshold vs Flesh: Very High
> Damage Threshold vs Shields/Armor: High
> Rate of Fire: Fully Automatic
> Trigger RPM: Average-Fast
> Effective Range: User Dependent
> Maximum Range: 100-150 Meters
> Dual Wield Capacity: N/A
> Scope: Smart-Link 2x Scope
>
> M6G
> Magazine Size: 8
> Maximum Ammo: 40 Rounds
> Damage Threshold vs Flesh: High
> Damage Threshold vs Shields/Armor: Medium
> Rate of Fire: Semi-Automatic
> Trigger RPM: Slow-Average
> Effective Range: User Dependent
> Maximum Range: 50 Meters
> Dual Wield Capacity: Yes
> Scope: Smart-Link 2x Scope (Single Wield Only)

Woah! That’s a lot to take in. Let’s go over that data. We’ve got four pistols to make unique. How can we do that in future Halo FPS games? It’s already done for us. There are four options for individual ranges, three options for scopes, two options for dual-wielding, one option for stealth, one option for power and longevity, one option for high RoF, and one option for balance spawns, etc…

My goodness, that’s quite a lot of variety in those four items alone. Imagine the possibilities if all the other items returned. Now, I know you naysayers are already here thinking, “You’re a hypocrite because there is only one weapon worth using out of all those pistols in a match; the M6D.” Catch your breath, and allow me to go into part three of this whole sandbox variety spiel.

Continued in next post…

32

My apologies for the length of these two posts.

PART 3 - Separate but Equal

In accordance with various preferences, philosophies, or theories behind competitive balanced multiplayer gameplay, it is extremely critical for weapons to have a unique purpose in every engagement. As you negative Nicks and Nancys pointed out, the M6D would be the go to pistol if all four were available either on spawn or during the same match. Congratulations! You are correct. Who said anything about all four pistols existing together on every single map or during every gametype variant? To fulfill your curiosity, let’s dive into another example.

Example #2 - Weapons on Maps and Gametypes
We return now to a standard map of Halo 2 remade in Halo 3’s glory, Heretic (aka Midship). A small, mainly symmetrical, arena-styled map; Heretic was the place for some amazing Slayer and Objective games. Like its earlier form, Heretic also ran remarkably well with ridiculous 16 player customs. For this example, please reference the overhead view of the map. You will need to use your imagination a little bit for this one.

Within Heretic, gamers have access to 9 unique weapons and 2 grenade variants. Imagine, if you will, a straight up Pistols Only variant with our extremely varied future sandbox. Let’s say gamers spawn with the M6G, while the M6C, M6C/S, M6D, Covenant Plasma Pistol, Brute Mauler (a pseudo Magnum), the [Sticky Detonator], and the [Bolt Shot] make up the weapons for this map. Keep in mind, these weapons are all only on this map during this gametype variant.

Open the Heretic overview up if you closed it, and let’s make some substitutions. Try and stay with me. Where there is a BR replace it with the M6C/S, the Plasma Rifles and Needlers shifts to M6C Pistols, our M90 Shotgun becomes the Sticky Detonator, the Sword transforms into the Bolt Shot, the Spiker and SMG become Plasma Pistols, the current Plasma Pistol is replaced by a Mauler, while the Carbine morphs into the M6D. Do you see the new overlay picture developing in your mind? How about the gameplay? Can you imagine how our Pistols Only variant would play out?

In this example, the main power weapons will become the Boltshot, M6D, and the Sticky Detonator. The lesser power weapons would be the M6C/S and the Mauler. This would leave the M6Cs and Plasma Pistols as the specialized weapons. Let’s go back to our guidelines from the OP.

  1. Is the sandbox balanced? Yes.
  2. Are all weapons unique and in their own niche? Yes.
  3. Do we have access to a utilitarian weapon? No. The closest ones to it are power weapons within this gametype.

With all three of our core ideals intact, we can continue on our merry way. If you haven’t already, let your mind run wild with all the possible gametype variations. Our massive sandbox would allow for specific gametype variants strictly from Halos of yore (HCE Slayer, H2 One Flag, H3 Neutral Assault, ODST VIP, HR Headhunter, etc…) individual weapons (Pistols, Automatics, Precision, Covenant, UNSC, etc…), vehicle engagements (think Battletanx with Halo vehicles) and tons more I cannot even think of right now. With a larger sandbox in our future Halos, the possibilities are seemingly endless!

CONCLUSION

Should future Halo FPS sandboxes indeed be filled to the brim with variety and customization, no one needs to fear unbalanced or non-competitive gameplay ever again. Gamers could design their own personal variants to the letter. Of course, there will always be debates about what’s the most “skillful” or “professional” gametype during Halo’s life, but that’s why we have opinions and preferences. Some people like their Unggoy mounted on the wall with a Sniper round through its head. Others like stabbing the poor fleeing Grunts in the neck and leaving them to bleed out. That’s an image for the books…

I’ve talked long enough. An expansive sandbox would allow the gaming limits to be pushed once more. Halo FPS games were once great at doing that. Let us not forget the potential increase in sells, replayability, and satisfaction that would occur as a result of the sandbox changes. Without a shadow of a doubt, I know the entire Halo community would be able to benefit from this type of variety.

I hope these words have helped to explain why a greater sandbox variety can and will assist in a balanced Halo environment. Never sell yourselves short. We can alleviate most all sandbox variety issues our community mentions if we are allowed an ultimate Halo sandbox. The possibilities are endless. After all, variety is the spice of life.

-Always Hope

Good luck in your journey members of the Halo community. With any luck, 343 Industries will actually take into account any positive developments you provide. That simple action was sorely missed for the launch of Halo 4. Take care!

-Always Hope

33

They should have some different variants of weapons
EX. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uIGgWUdQcmU SKIP TO 5:40
that would be a pretty interesting AR variant for halo and like OP said the scope would make it more useful with something like controlled fire

Taken from a CE video…

34

The AR is my favourite gun EVER but I don’t use it much because I can just use the precision weapons. Although I wish automatics were stronger as they are so inferior to other guns, Halo has always been known as a precision-weapon/headshot game. So if 343 significantly altered or buffed the automatics, a lot of fans would be left angry and more threads will be on their way.