While greatly argued, armor abilities appear to be staying, or at lest in the multiplayer environment outside of a classic playlist.
I will start by saying that I am posting this into the Halo 4 section because I aim to use the current armor abilities as examples of how I would see the balanced/changed. This may be more relevant to the Halo Xbox One section, in which case I ask that the moderators move this if they deem so fit.
Now, down to the meat of the thread. Armor abilities in Halo 4 are currently aimed to give the player an advantage. The assumption is that each gives its own advantage and that since each has that advantage they are balanced. The error in this in 2 fold.
Firstly, as will always be, the asymmetric balance will never be perfect. If it is decided that the concept will be kept the developer needs to be open and ready to d minor tweaking to the concept (or armor abilities in this case). Star Craft 2 does this very well with its tweaking of damages on various mechanics in the game because the game is based off of a 3-way asymmetric design. The best thing for armor abilities would be for 343 Industries to write into the code the ability to do small changes to them like they have done with the weapons in Halo 4.
Secondly, the abilities as they currently stand are player based, or person use only (for the most part). Some of the most balanced abilities are the team based ones like Regeneration Field. While armor abilities currently offer a player the advantage of his choice, they could be made to assist a team. I have discussed this frequently with friends and so I will go through each armor ability in Halo 4 and try to explain how it could become team based.
Regen. Field - As I mentioned before, I believe that this AA is currently balanced but it can be taken one step farther. Instead of the green bubble the ability could send out a pulse within a short radius that would instantly begin charging any players shield withing it at twice the recharge speed. It would serve the same purpose but offer a larger radius and a faster charge, however it would be a one and done type thing until the ability recharges. The reasoning for this is to give a fast tactical advantage rather than a continuous one.
Auto Sentry - I am not overly sure how I would make this ability team based. It acts as a weakened portable turret so I will leave this up to the creativity of the posters.
Active Camo - Currently this ability benefits the user solely. It allows camping and easy hiding from other players in plain sight. On top of that it can be glitch so no dots appear on radar. While I would prefer if this went back to a pick up I do have an idea to make it team based and semi-balanced. The ability would work on the principal of a short, tactical advantage. When activated all players withing 7 feet would become fully invisible for 5 - 8 seconds. This would give a very large advantage in a fight but force teamwork for the maximum affect. Also, the one activating the ability would only have the camo for 4 or seconds, this would encourage the user to use it on his team for the maximum affect while still giving the chance for personal use.
Hard Light ShieldAs the replacement for armor lock, this ability gives a more balanced look to it while still proving nuisance to some players. To encourage teamwork with this ability the player would instead drop a deployable cover much like in Halo 3. In objective and team play this would prove very useful when holding a position or trying to gain a foothold. The shield would be strong enough to stop maybe 2 grenades or a rocket but vehicles would be able to plow through it.
Jet Pack - My personal favorite and debated over powered, this is another ability used solely for one player. The new version of this would be again an area of affect ability where players withing a vicinity would receive a significant jump height increase the more players, the more the increase.
Hologram - For the hoped future of this I see it much like jetpack. The more payers the better the affect. To add the the increase in power the player shooting the ability would shoot a hologram from each player withing the area. Each hologram would also move a slightly different angles and speeds to add to making the holograms more believable. Also, the more players (up to 3) the better a hologram it would be such as the reticle changing color and appearing on radar.
Promethean Vision - When the player would activate the ability a pulse would be sent out across the entirety of the map and ping enemy players for a second before disappearing. To add to this the radar would be affected as well by the enemy being shown on the radar regardless of movement and this would ast about 1 to 2 seconds. This could then be used as a team based organizer to charge positions at once and break campers from their hiding.
Thruster Pack - This is another hard one to find a team use for but the best I have come up with is either a temporary increase in team mates speed withing an area for a very short duration of 5 - 10 seconds or the ability the push players and yourself away from a location (as to avoid a grenade for say).
As for cooldown of all the abilities, that is up for debate and balancing. This is just my 2-cents on where I believe armor abilities should go to help improve team based gameplay while still allowing solo use.
I hope to see all your opinions down below and I hope I posted this in the correct thread.
I would rather see certain AAs become base traits available to everyone. Others map pick ups or special grenades/equipment. Dont get me wrong, your ideas are good and I would like to see a more team focus approach to AAs like you said. Here are my ideas:
Base Traits
Jet Pack-reduced to a jump boost .
Thrusters-Works the same way it does now with a slight buff to distance and speed.
PV(not current version)-Similar to your version but also like BF3’s spot/tag feature. The tag would only show your opponents last known position.
All these would be mapped to LB. For example, LB+zoom=tag, LB+Jump=jump boost,LB+anolog stick(any direction)=thrusters.
SpecialGrendades/Equipment:Items players can spawn with, 1 use per spawn. Or can be placed on map like H3 Equipment.
Hologram Squad- An item you can throw that projects 3 holograms that move in different directions.
Camo Shield-Similar to your idea but also like bubble shield from H3. Players throw it down creating a camo bubble. Except it doesnt protect from incoming or outgoing fire. Lasts 10 seconds and shooting from within temporarily breaks camo.
Regen Field- pretty much how you described it. A fast pulse of “regen” instead of a long lasting bubble.
Power Ups
Damage Boost,Speed Boost, Overshield, Active Camo(for arena/competitive playlists).
im sorry but you lost me at camo.
if i have to fight a full team of invisible players im going to quit halo. its just ridiculous at that point.
> im sorry but you lost me at camo.
>
> if i have to fight a full team of invisible players im going to quit halo. its just ridiculous at that point.
I completely understand what you mean by this. But it wouldn’t be the whole team. The affect would only effect players withing a very small radius and for a short time. It could also add an audio clue to surrounding players to let them know this has happened. Also, the camo would be disabled by firing and being fired at. If the player really wanted to use this to an advantage it would be a very short time they would have this, only offering a slight advantage in terms of positioning.
> While greatly argued, armor abilities appear to be staying, or at lest in the multiplayer environment outside of a classic playlist.
>
> I will start by saying that I am posting this into the Halo 4 section because I aim to use the current armor abilities as examples of how I would see the balanced/changed. This may be more relevant to the Halo Xbox One section, in which case I ask that the moderators move this if they deem so fit.
>
> Now, down to the meat of the thread. Armor abilities in Halo 4 are currently aimed to give the player an advantage. The assumption is that each gives its own advantage and that since each has that advantage they are balanced. The error in this in 2 fold.
> Firstly, as will always be, the asymmetric balance will never be perfect. If it is decided that the concept will be kept the developer needs to be open and ready to d minor tweaking to the concept (or armor abilities in this case). Star Craft 2 does this very well with its tweaking of damages on various mechanics in the game because the game is based off of a 3-way asymmetric design. The best thing for armor abilities would be for 343 Industries to write into the code the ability to do small changes to them like they have done with the weapons in Halo 4.
> Secondly, the abilities as they currently stand are player based, or person use only (for the most part). Some of the most balanced abilities are the team based ones like Regeneration Field. While armor abilities currently offer a player the advantage of his choice, they could be made to assist a team. I have discussed this frequently with friends and so I will go through each armor ability in Halo 4 and try to explain how it could become team based.
> Regen. Field - As I mentioned before, I believe that this AA is currently balanced but it can be taken one step farther. Instead of the green bubble the ability could send out a pulse within a short radius that would instantly begin charging any players shield withing it at twice the recharge speed. It would serve the same purpose but offer a larger radius and a faster charge, however it would be a one and done type thing until the ability recharges. The reasoning for this is to give a fast tactical advantage rather than a continuous one.
> Auto Sentry - I am not overly sure how I would make this ability team based. It acts as a weakened portable turret so I will leave this up to the creativity of the posters.
> <mark>Active Camo - Currently this ability benefits the user solely.</mark> It allows camping and easy hiding from other players in plain sight. On top of that it can be glitch so no dots appear on radar. While I would prefer if this went back to a pick up <mark>I do have an idea to make it team based</mark> and semi-balanced. The ability would work on the principal of a short, tactical advantage. <mark>When activated all players withing 7 feet would become fully invisible for 5 - 8 seconds. This would give a very large advantage in a fight but force teamwork for the maximum affect</mark>. Also, the one activating the ability would only have the camo for 4 or seconds, this would encourage the user to use it on his team for the maximum affect while still giving the chance for personal use.
> Hard Light ShieldAs the replacement for armor lock, this ability gives a more balanced look to it while still proving nuisance to some players. To encourage teamwork with this ability the player would instead drop a deployable cover much like in Halo 3. In objective and team play this would prove very useful when holding a position or trying to gain a foothold. The shield would be strong enough to stop maybe 2 grenades or a rocket but vehicles would be able to plow through it.
> Jet Pack - My personal favorite and debated over powered, this is another ability used solely for one player. The new version of this would be again an area of affect ability where players withing a vicinity would receive a significant jump height increase the more players, the more the increase.
> Hologram - For the hoped future of this I see it much like jetpack. The more payers the better the affect. To add the the increase in power the player shooting the ability would shoot a hologram from each player withing the area. Each hologram would also move a slightly different angles and speeds to add to making the holograms more believable. Also, the more players (up to 3) the better a hologram it would be such as the reticle changing color and appearing on radar.
> Promethean Vision - When the player would activate the ability a pulse would be sent out across the entirety of the map and ping enemy players for a second before disappearing. To add to this the radar would be affected as well by the enemy being shown on the radar regardless of movement and this would ast about 1 to 2 seconds. This could then be used as a team based organizer to charge positions at once and break campers from their hiding.
> Thruster Pack - This is another hard one to find a team use for but the best I have come up with is either a temporary increase in team mates speed withing an area for a very short duration of 5 - 10 seconds or the ability the push players and yourself away from a location (as to avoid a grenade for say).
>
> As for cooldown of all the abilities, that is up for debate and balancing. This is just my 2-cents on where I believe armor abilities should go to help improve team based gameplay while still allowing solo use.
>
> I hope to see all your opinions down below and I hope I posted this in the correct thread.
this would indicate that it works on all teammates. that means everyone will crowd around camo guy and will all be invisible. thats where i think camo cannot be a team based aa at all.
i would prefer to just keep aa’s as individual specializations and allow the teams to worry about team work.
even if it is a small radius its still big enough to cover an entire team. this doesnt sound fun to me as we already have whole teams camo camping with dmrs on ragnarok and other big maps
Some abilities do not work for team based action.
Thruster pack? I prefer it’s current form. Giving all players in a radius an extra boost would not be good.
Also, take into account that teams would choose all the AA. Imagine a bunch of high jumping, fast recharging, invisible guys. That’s the problem with team AAs. They can be stacked with the other ones.
@ZombieFrogHorde
I completely understand how you see this being used as a team camping tool. The balance to it however is that it pulses into a small area for a one and done affect. All players in the area would gain camo but it would only last 5 - 8 seconds. Also, if any player shot while in camo they would lose it entirely until the player with the ability were to use it again. So you could try to camp but the second you fire you lose your advantage.
On top of that all abilities would have a significantly longer cool down. This would be so that abilities would be a fast in the moment advantage but no be used repeatedly in fights or maybe only a few times.
The whole idea is to take armour abilities and make them something the players has to think about before using. I am trying to design this in a way that allows classic and new Halo players to coincide in a playlist while offering “the best” from both sides.
@Noble138
I hadn’t thought about it like that, hmm.
However that would be an easy thing to balance. Lets say players start stacking abilities. Camo, thrusters and jetpack. When I said an increase I meant only a slight one. The players would have 125% jump hight and movement and lose the camo because they are now moving. When I said camo, I meant in its current form rather than in the Halo 3 version.
Also, if it still proved to be a balance issue you can introduce the mechanic where players would only have access to the most recently activated ability. So if they tried to stack them they would end up losing access to previous abilities. So lets say I activate camo, then thrusters, then jet pack. The players lose access to camo and thrusters.
> @ZombieFrogHorde
>
> I completely understand how you see this being used as a team camping tool. The balance to it however is that it pulses into a small area for a one and done affect. All players in the area would gain camo but it would only last 5 - 8 seconds. Also, if any player shot while in camo they would lose it entirely until the player with the ability were to use it again. So you could try to camp but the second you fire you lose your advantage.
>
> On top of that all abilities would have a significantly longer cool down. This would be so that abilities would be a fast in the moment advantage but no be used repeatedly in fights or maybe only a few times.
>
> The whole idea is to take armour abilities and make them something the players has to think about before using. I am trying to design this in a way that allows classic and new Halo players to coincide in a playlist while offering “the best” from both sides.
aside from the stacking issue raised above, i couldnt play a game where 4 or 5 or 8 players can be invisible for 5 - 8 seconds. it would have to be cut to 2 maybe 3 seconds max if the whole team can use it and that makes it pointless. it still boils down to having an entire team invisible. add on the stacking effect and this turns into a bigger mess than it is now.
i guess we shall have to agree to disagree good sir.
> @Noble138
>
> I hadn’t thought about it like that, hmm.
>
> However that would be an easy thing to balance. Lets say players start stacking abilities. Camo, thrusters and jetpack. When I said an increase I meant only a slight one. The players would have 125% jump hight and movement and lose the camo because they are now moving. When I said camo, I meant in its current form rather than in the Halo 3 version.
>
> Also, if it still proved to be a balance issue you can introduce the mechanic where players would only have access to the most recently activated ability. So if they tried to stack them they would end up losing access to previous abilities. So lets say I activate camo, then thrusters, then jet pack. The players lose access to camo and thrusters.
Then the only problem I see now is, who will get the first AA activated? If it’s not the guy who wants everyone to be invisible, he may go off and do some lone wolf. I realize that his AA duration is shorter, but team communication is key in this, and most people I play with have no mics.
thats another point about the stacking. even if the new aa overrides the old, then we have griefers who will just spam random aas to mess up other people. how would we protect against that?