Arguments against 1-50 Ranking System are pretty weak

I’m neutral on the topic since I could go either way but I must say…the arguments against a 1-50 system don’t add up to much. I’ll address a few.

“The system doesn’t work.” To me, Reach’s “invisible” ranking system didn’t really work. When playing with friends, I get a close match about once in every 5 games. The rest involve either my team dominating or my team getting dominated. In Halo 2 or 3, when I reached a certain level, only one in five matches were one sided. The rest were very close and very intense.

“1-50 Rank encourages cheating like network manipulation/modding.” I don’t know about you but these issues didn’t occur for me after Halo 2. Standby no longer worked (I tested it myself in a custom match) and out of the thousands of matches I played, I never ran into a modder."

“1-50 encourages boosting or de-leveling.” We definitely have the technology to catch these kinds of things. It’s not that hard. De-leveling is a big deal but if we have the technology to detect modded consoles and quitters, 343 certainly should be able to tell when somebody is playing solely to lose."

“I hate a-holes who brag about it all the time.” Either mute your headset or disable chat from random people. Besides, it’s not like anybody uses the game chat anymore. Most people are in party chat in 90% of the matches I join.

If people don’t like rank, they will have plenty of social playlists. There really is no good argument against not having it.

  1. It works.

  2. People want it

  3. It will not affect those that don’t like it since they can play social playlists

  4. Why not?

You say you’re neutral, however your argument is biased towards 1-50. I’m pro 1-50, just sayin though :slight_smile:

The trueskill system wasn’t very good in Reach. People still get host booted to this day in H3. I saw it myself a few times recently. I don’t disagree with you, but just pointing out those things.

> You say you’re neutral, however your argument is biased towards 1-50. I’m pro 1-50, just sayin though :slight_smile:

I see no fault in the opposite side. I play both rank and social. Rank isn’t the most importent thing to me. I’m just saying that 343 should give a huge portion of their fans what they want since there is literally no drawbacks.

> The trueskill system wasn’t very good in Reach.

What Trueskill system?

If 343i can do more to try to prevent the boosting and deranking fine. But I wonder how much the love for 1-50 is psychological in that people love that number next to their name. I don’t really think it does anything to promote competitiveness, that lies with the players.

> I’m neutral on the topic since I could go either way but I must say…the arguments against a 1-50 system don’t add up to much. I’ll address a few.
>
> “The system doesn’t work.” To me, Reach’s “invisible” ranking system didn’t really work. When playing with friends, I get a close match about once in every 5 games. The rest involve either my team dominating or my team getting dominated. In Halo 2 or 3, when I reached a certain level, only one in five matches were one sided. The rest were very close and very intense.

Reach didn’t use a strict trueskill system like 3’s ranked. While there was a way to turn on strict trueskill matchmaking, most playlists are too low in population for it to make a difference.

> “1-50 Rank encourages cheating like network manipulation/modding.” I don’t know about you but these issues didn’t occur for me after Halo 2. Standby no longer worked (I tested it myself in a custom match) and out of the thousands of matches I played, I never ran into a modder."

If these problem never happened to you, you are lucky. Network manipulation were a big problem early in Halo 3’s life (I think the first year or so) before Bungie began cracking down.

> “1-50 encourages boosting or de-leveling.” We definitely have the technology to catch these kinds of things. It’s not that hard. De-leveling is a big deal but if we have the technology to detect modded consoles and quitters, 343 certainly should be able to tell when somebody is playing solely to lose."

It’s not that easy to catch, as Halo Reach’s Arena shows. In addition, there are very easy ways to fight boosting/deranking: don’t base skill rating on wins/loses. That right there is the source of boosting and deranking.

> If people don’t like rank, they will have plenty of social playlists. There really is no good argument against not having it.
>
> 1. It works.
>
> 2. People want it
>
> 3. It will not affect those that don’t like it since they can play social playlists
>
> 4. Why not?

It’s not as simple as “go to social”.

You can fix every problem with a skill based ranking system by making it invisible to everyone but yourself. That gets rid of every incentive to manipulate the ranking system, and that gets rid of all rank trolling.

Imagine Halo 3’s ranks, only you are the only one who can see yours and you can’t see any one else’s. You still have the visible rank that lets you see where your skill lies among the population, only if any one cheats for their rank no one will know and they will get destroyed if they ever search on it.

That is how the 1-50 system should work for H4, but I doubt it will be like that.

> You can fix every problem with a skill based ranking system by making it invisible to everyone but yourself. That gets rid of every incentive to manipulate the ranking system, and that gets rid of all rank trolling.
>
>
> Imagine Halo 3’s ranks, only you are the only one who can see yours and you can’t see any one else’s. You still have the visible rank that lets you see where your skill lies among the population, only if any one cheats for their rank no one will know and they will get destroyed if they ever search on it.
>
> That is how the 1-50 system should work for H4, but I doubt it will be like that.

I like knowning what rank people have. People will just find ways to put their rank as their service tag (or lie about it if that become popular). Just bring it back. If it really bothers people that others have a higher rank, they just shouldn’t play ranked.

> > I’m neutral on the topic since I could go either way but I must say…the arguments against a 1-50 system don’t add up to much. I’ll address a few.
> >
> > “The system doesn’t work.” To me, Reach’s “invisible” ranking system didn’t really work. When playing with friends, I get a close match about once in every 5 games. The rest involve either my team dominating or my team getting dominated. In Halo 2 or 3, when I reached a certain level, only one in five matches were one sided. The rest were very close and very intense.
>
> Reach didn’t use a strict trueskill system like 3’s ranked. While there was a way to turn on strict trueskill matchmaking, most playlists are too low in population for it to make a difference.
>
>
>
> > “1-50 Rank encourages cheating like network manipulation/modding.” I don’t know about you but these issues didn’t occur for me after Halo 2. Standby no longer worked (I tested it myself in a custom match) and out of the thousands of matches I played, I never ran into a modder."
>
> If these problem never happened to you, you are lucky. Network manipulation were a big problem early in Halo 3’s life (I think the first year or so) before Bungie began cracking down.
>
>
>
> > “1-50 encourages boosting or de-leveling.” We definitely have the technology to catch these kinds of things. It’s not that hard. De-leveling is a big deal but if we have the technology to detect modded consoles and quitters, 343 certainly should be able to tell when somebody is playing solely to lose."
>
> It’s not that easy to catch, as Halo Reach’s Arena shows. In addition, there are very easy ways to fight boosting/deranking: don’t base skill rating on wins/loses. That right there is the source of boosting and deranking.
>
>
>
> > If people don’t like rank, they will have plenty of social playlists. There really is no good argument against not having it.
> >
> > 1. It works.
> >
> > 2. People want it
> >
> > 3. It will not affect those that don’t like it since they can play social playlists
> >
> > 4. Why not?
>
> It’s not as simple as “go to social”.

To me it is. One option I think would be cool is the ability to make everybody’s rank invisible. For people who may have low self esteem about it, they should have the option to make it now show up on their profile or anybody else’s. Then, they can just play without a headset and not interact with others and it will seem just like Reach.

I really don’t care as long as the Armory is not tied to ranks whatsoever.

Although the 1-50 system was a bit annoying because I lost my First Lieutenant rank when I accidentally let my skill get to high, I had to keep the number down.

> > You can fix every problem with a skill based ranking system by making it invisible to everyone but yourself. That gets rid of every incentive to manipulate the ranking system, and that gets rid of all rank trolling.
> >
> >
> > Imagine Halo 3’s ranks, only you are the only one who can see yours and you can’t see any one else’s. You still have the visible rank that lets you see where your skill lies among the population, only if any one cheats for their rank no one will know and they will get destroyed if they ever search on it.
> >
> > That is how the 1-50 system should work for H4, but I doubt it will be like that.
>
> I like knowning what rank people have. People will just find ways to put their rank as their service tag (or lie about it if that become popular). Just bring it back. If it really bothers people that others have a higher rank, they just shouldn’t play ranked.

Nobody gets bothered that people have a higher rank than them, people get bothered by the constant harassment they receive when they don’t have the highest rank.

But I am not even concerned with that. When you have the massive amount of manipulation that you did in Halo 3 with the ranks, it defeats the purpose of the ranks being visible. A level 50/General meant something in Halo 3 for about 6 months, then was worthless. People say it is an exaggeration that most 50’s were fake, but I’m not sure it is. I got at least 30 people a 50 that they didn’t deserve and there were TONS of people like me.

Not to mention what all that manipulation does to the distribution of ranks.

All I have to say is 1-50 better be in the game. If you dont like 1-50 all you have to do is play Social.

Personally, I’m all for it to return. I only got to a level 46 in Halo 3, but for me that was good enough. The only thing that annoyed me was that people were making new accounts just to skip through the level locking and get straight to a 50, which harmed a lot of other people’s ranks in the process.

Oh, and the forums. There were a lot of people on the Bungie forums who thought that you weren’t entitled to have an opinion unless you were a 50, but I suppose the community will always be bad, this would just be another way of it being so.

> It will not affect those that don’t like it since they can play social playlists

I just want to comment on this thought pattern. This is basically: If you don’t like it. Go away. Go play something else.

To which I reply: If you don’t like H4 not having 1-50. Go away. Go play something else.

As to why I don’t want a replacement of a time based ranking system with a skill based ranking system is the fact that a skill based ranking system is going to be viewed as a progression system despite the fact that it’s very nature will be to exclude as many people as possible from progressing unless their skill is high enough. This makes it a horrible ranking system for anyone who isn’t 40+ already.

Such a change would only trade around the problems that we currently have. It’s not fixing anything. Just screwing over another set of people. Which is apparently okay because it’s not you getting screwed over.

> “I hate a-holes who brag about it all the time.” Either mute your headset or disable chat from random people. Besides, it’s not like anybody uses the game chat anymore. Most people are in party chat in 90% of the matches I join.

The a-holes don’t just brag in game chat. When you express an opinion in the forums the a-holes look up your rank and announce that you aren’t allowed to have an opinion and that you shouldn’t be allowed to play (see Bnet H3 forums). Some players feel entitled to more than others once they reach a high rank. Some would even like to be worshiped.

I’m not against it but, believe me if it’s implemented in Halo 4 it will only be accurate for about 4-6 months tops once someone figures out a way to cheat the system, especially if high ranks get a lot of attention.

If you’re really good you should compete in MLG and get something real. Your 343i ranks will be meaningless.

> > “I hate a-holes who brag about it all the time.” Either mute your headset or disable chat from random people. Besides, it’s not like anybody uses the game chat anymore. Most people are in party chat in 90% of the matches I join.
>
> The a-holes don’t just brag in game chat. When you express an opinion in the forums the a-holes look up your rank and announce that you aren’t allowed to have an opinion and that you shouldn’t be allowed to play (see Bnet H3 forums). Some players feel entitled to more than others once they reach a high rank. Some would even like to be worshiped.
>
> I’m not against it but, believe me if it’s implemented in Halo 4 it will only be accurate for about 4-6 months tops once someone figures out a way to cheat the system, especially if high ranks get a lot of attention.
>
> If you’re really good you should compete in MLG and get something real. Your 343i ranks will be meaningless.

Those same a-holes are going to look up your k/d and w/l ration if there isn’t rank. It’s sort of a lose lose scenario. Don’t even bother with those people. They are jerks no matter what.

Look guys, I don’t want the exact Halo 3 system. I want a 1-50 where you can go up and down depending on performance but it definitely needs some revision.

One issue with the system is that once you reach 50, you have no incentive to play it anymore because you will lose that 50. Maybe a 50 should be permanent or once you achieve a 50, you recieve a star to show that you made it to 50.

Another issue is how easy it is to get to 50. It needs to take more EXP to level up after level 20 like in Halo 2. To me, getting into the mid 30’s was as good as it was going to get because anything past that was mod central. Without all the cheating, I can imagine making it to 40 but that will probably be my limit. No way am I good enough to make it past that.

The same can be said for pro 1-50 arguments. Infact you guys basically have two, and both are false. The first being visible 1-50 finds better matches. Which isn’t true because a strict setting affect the quality of game (along with population size). The second crap carp argument is that visible 1-50 gives “competitive” players something to work for. Well I always understood the true competitive players play for wins, not numbers next to their name. Posers and mules (bad players) play for ranks and carrots on sticks. If you a competitive player and you find yourself losing, you’re going to work to improve yourself and start winning.

I almost forgot that other lame excuse is it promotes teamwork. Guess what, either you’re a team player or you aren’t.

I’m done with these desperate threads.

I dont care about the ranking system, you dont need a number to tell you, or anyone else that you are good. Competitively or social. It appears the only people fighting for a 1-50 system are the supporters of it. Even then, you guys cant seem to make up your mind.

Let this be a warning though, it is possible that you wont be seeing this style of ranking system, just be prepared. I know that sucks to hear, but there is a reason why they havent disclosed this information yet. Maybe they are waiting for summer and some of you may go outside or on vacation where there is no internetz.

Forum goers and Mods, prepare yourself for the day that they announce no 1-50.

And thats all i have to say on the matter.

WATCH OUT! Its TOA FREAK and METHEW!!! AHH THEY ARE DOUBLE TEAMING US!!!

Seriously you might have problems if you think reach’s ranking system was better that halo 2’s.