The point of this thread is to take the popular arguments on the forums and hopefully end them or atleast make you think before supporting any of these arguments. Keep in mind that i’m an above average player thats been with halo since CE. I am just another person on the forums. So please don’t assume that i feel i am all knowing.
Halo 4 is dead/population argument: People claim that halo 4 is dead/dying and or it has a low population. The only thing is dying is arena shooters. Back in the days of halo 2-3 arena shooters were the popular game. modern FPS games like COD were still “new.” Also the number of xbox’s per house was smaller. In a sense halo 2-3 were playing to a different gaming generation then the one halo reach and 4 have. Secondly halo charts or any place for that matter only shows daily population sometimes weekly. But the population they show is how many players are on at any given time. The 4 million people that bought halo 4 didn’t vanish. XBL charts show halo 4 is in the top 3 most active games on xbox live. why? Because that is counted by unique users or UU’s logging in each day to that game. So halo 4 is far from dead.
Halo 4=COD argument: This argument claims that many of halo 4’s mechanics come from call of duty. I want to say right off the bat that if you have been a gamer for any substantial amount of time you would know games have always been ripping off of eachother. Halo was not the first game to include weapons on the map. Halo was not the first game to have shields as a primary source of health. Halo was not the first game to have power ups. Call of duty was not the first to have a load out system. COD was not the first to have sprint. My point is these ideas came from other places. But halo is getting flak because for some reason if it looks close to COD its bad. COD’s perks have a bigger effect on gunplay then our tactical packages. Cods killstreaks are nothing like the ORD system. they share 1 similarity, kill things to earn things. Everything halo has stolen wether it be from COD or any other game has its own twist on it. You don’t have to like these new changes but calling them bad just because they could have come from COD is just silly. In short if halo 4 was really COD they would play the same. And anyone that isn’t biased that actually thinks about it they know they don’t play at all alike. The best you can say is halo 4 is more modern.
Weapons being unbalanced or OP argument: Self explanitory. Going to drop logic. The DMR is not OP. The issue is the maps. Many of the BTB maps have long sightlines with little cover. Ragnarok is a great example. The solution to the DMR is better maps. The boltshot is not OP. The problem? its a shotgun that people can start with. No matter what we do short of taking that function off would make everyone happy. Because no matter how much its nerfed as long as it can OHK it will be an issue. Solution? Get over it. Take the time to find out the amount of deaths you have to it. Then compare it to your 3rd top killing weapon. If its not even close in numbers then stop complaining.
A lot of people look at weapons VIA paper. Stats wise. But that doesn’t include player skill. Which is a major factor in how a battle plays. For instance the DMR its a medium to long range weapon. But can kill in short range so OP? saying you can kill in short range is nothing. I CAN land a kill at distance with a BR and its a short to medium range. SO with that logic the BR would also be OP. But RAZR its easier with the DMR! thats up to player skill. Not a valid point. the LR can kill in all 3 ranges as well. And does better damage scoped. As far as bullet magnitism goes its not an issue. The video showed in a private/ LAN setting. Where lag and other things are absent. In a sense its a video to show what COULD happen under perfect settings and perfect settings never exist online. 343/bungie spent years on each halo game to make it as balanced as possible. a majority of the issues as far as loadouts go are player preference. Nothing in loadouts are imbalanced. There is a counter to everything. you don’t have to like weapons but they are not OP.
343 is not listening/they don’t care argument: 343 does listen. Since launch we have had things patched like glitching spots on maps the super grenade throw and boltshot insta reload fixed. Button combos got fixed. And if you have payed attention to any of the bulletins they have apologized about some of the issues. They know they messed up on things. They told us we will get a 1-50 for each playlist. They told us doubles and others playlists will come. They listen and they care.
What to take away from this thread? I am not saying halo 4 is perfect. I recognize it has issues. But What you need to realize is that this game is not dying. It does not have over powered weapons. It is halo and 343 cares. 99% of the thread complaints are boiled down to “its too different i want more of the same.” All games change. Many of the past halos have had a good amount of issues in the beginning. Many people didn’t like some of the new changes (like removing the AR in halo 2 or adding the equipment in halo 3) even the “flop” halo reach is now “praised” as a halo game even though people claimed it was not back when halo reach was the new game. halo 4 like every other halo has a rocky start and it will get much better just like every other halo after time. Halo has made a drastic change with reach and they continued with halo 4. They want to keep halo around. And as much as we all would like to think a standard arena shooter could survive today. It would not survive in todays market. All you can do is accept the change and continue to help improve or just move on.
Lastly i will not argue over weapon stats. I know statistically the DMR is the best weapon. But because player skill has a much bigger part then stats its not the best weapon. Plenty of players can beat DMR users with the preference of their own gun. I will also not argue on the self entitlement stand. You paid to play the game. Not develop it. 343 or any other company can choose not to update the game or create forums because you already bought the game. But they choose to listen and let us give feedback. But that does not for one second grant you the power to be entitled to anything.
> The boltshot is not OP. The problem? its a shotgun that people can start with. No matter what we do short of taking that function off would make everyone happy. <mark>Because no matter how much its nerfed as long as it can OHK it will be an issue.</mark> Solution? Get over it.
Then have it not be a 1HK. And really if “Ignore it” is the best argument you have, you won’t end any argument.
> > The boltshot is not OP. The problem? its a shotgun that people can start with. No matter what we do short of taking that function off would make everyone happy. <mark>Because no matter how much its nerfed as long as it can OHK it will be an issue.</mark> Solution? Get over it.
>
> Then have it not be a 1HK. And really if “Ignore it” is the best argument you have, you won’t end any argument.
The Boltshot Was created to have a second function. Without it it would be a glorified Plasma pistol. I know it won’t end the argument. But its what people need to do.
I half expected the thread to just be a link to this.
> The DMR is not OP. The issue is the maps.
No its the DMR. How is it logical to blame weapon balancing on the enviornments we play on? The issue with the DMR is bullet magnetism, my reticle doesn’t even really need to be on the player for me to land a shot on them.
People can say arena shooters are dead when a quality one is released and fairs poorly. Until then, it`s only a theory.
> > > The boltshot is not OP. The problem? its a shotgun that people can start with. No matter what we do short of taking that function off would make everyone happy. <mark>Because no matter how much its nerfed as long as it can OHK it will be an issue.</mark> Solution? Get over it.
> >
> > Then have it not be a 1HK. And really if “Ignore it” is the best argument you have, you won’t end any argument.
>
> The Boltshot Was created to have a second function. Without it it would be a glorified Plasma pistol. I know it won’t end the argument. But its what people need to do.
So we should just live with an unbalanced weapon in the sandbox?
You bring up good points, most of which I agree with. However, I cannot agree with the section on weapons. It doesn’t matter if two players are evenly skilled or not; the one with the DMR, for example, is much more likely to win against the one with the BR (BR to 4sk pl0x). I won’t go up against a DMR guy with any other precison weapon.I mean, I can get the kill, but is it likely? No, it’s not.
And don’t even get me started on the boltshot.
To continue, one other section I’m finding hard to agree with is the “343 isn’t listening part”. We know they’re listening, but their responses to these immense amounts of criticism are usually very vague or hidden under a bunch of -Yoink- no one cares about.
Nice post. I remember the forums after Reach launched, all the same hate, all the same threads about weapons and population. I come on here everyday to read the craziness, then go home at night and play. I still play Reach everyday and there were threads when it launched about the population being so low that the game was dead.
So what are you hoping for a dead forum or people just kissing each other’s rear ends while rainbows shoot over head. I’ve seen those kind of forums…boredom.
The DMR is OP, no matter how you make it out to be. Yes player skill does matter, but if you are going make the gun the strongest of them all, then make it harder to land a hit. Don’t make it so that the strongest rifle is also the easiest one used to land a hit.
> > The DMR is not OP. The issue is the maps.
>
> No its the DMR. How is it logical to blame weapon balancing on the enviornments we play on? The issue with the DMR is bullet magnetism, my reticle doesn’t even really need to be on the player for me to land a shot on them.
No its the maps. if we were all forced to play BR starts in BTB like back in halo 3 the maps would be better flowing because we wouldn’t have a mini sniper. Ragnarok. it has little to no cover flat areas and HUGE lines of sight. Premoting camping because we have a weapon that excells in that area. ragnarok is a stand still. Now we take a map like meltodwn and the map flows well. Because there is cover but also sightlines. And room for vehicle combat. Any map outside BTB flows good as well regardless of the DMR because non btb maps rarely have an abundance of long sightlines with the absence of cover.
Yeah and in every other halo you didn’t have t have your reticle all the way on to land a kill. Go look at any halo 2 game play about bullet magnitism. you’ve got nothing to complain about.
> People can say arena shooters are dead when a quality one is released and fairs poorly. Until then, it`s only a theory.
Can you think of any other arena shooter right now thats got a heavy population? gears of war is even changing its fundamentals with GOW judgment because arena shooters are dying out.
> > > > The boltshot is not OP. The problem? its a shotgun that people can start with. No matter what we do short of taking that function off would make everyone happy. <mark>Because no matter how much its nerfed as long as it can OHK it will be an issue.</mark> Solution? Get over it.
> > >
> > > Then have it not be a 1HK. And really if “Ignore it” is the best argument you have, you won’t end any argument.
> >
> > The Boltshot Was created to have a second function. Without it it would be a glorified Plasma pistol. I know it won’t end the argument. But its what people need to do.
>
> So we should just live with an unbalanced weapon in the sandbox?
Or we can just remove it from loadouts (which I think the OP suggested)
> > > > The boltshot is not OP. The problem? its a shotgun that people can start with. No matter what we do short of taking that function off would make everyone happy. <mark>Because no matter how much its nerfed as long as it can OHK it will be an issue.</mark> Solution? Get over it.
> > >
> > > Then have it not be a 1HK. And really if “Ignore it” is the best argument you have, you won’t end any argument.
> >
> > The Boltshot Was created to have a second function. Without it it would be a glorified Plasma pistol. I know it won’t end the argument. But its what people need to do.
>
> So we should just live with an unbalanced weapon in the sandbox?
I assume your calling it unbalanced and by it i mean the ability to spawn with a OHK weapon. I have stated there are ways both strat wise and loadout wise that can counter the BS. You don’t like a OHK weapon in your loadout. Thats a preference issue not a gameplay. If there was no counter then you would be correct.
> > People can say arena shooters are dead when a quality one is released and fairs poorly. Until then, it`s only a theory.
>
> Can you think of any other arena shooter right now thats got a heavy population? gears of war is even changing its fundamentals with GOW judgment because <mark>arena shooters are dying out.</mark>
this.
why is this so hard to understand? why do you guys act like this is not possible?
also dont bring up h3. that was a different era 5 years ago and has nothing to do with now.
> > > > > The boltshot is not OP. The problem? its a shotgun that people can start with. No matter what we do short of taking that function off would make everyone happy. <mark>Because no matter how much its nerfed as long as it can OHK it will be an issue.</mark> Solution? Get over it.
> > > >
> > > > Then have it not be a 1HK. And really if “Ignore it” is the best argument you have, you won’t end any argument.
> > >
> > > The Boltshot Was created to have a second function. Without it it would be a glorified Plasma pistol. I know it won’t end the argument. But its what people need to do.
> >
> > So we should just live with an unbalanced weapon in the sandbox?
>
> I assume your calling it unbalanced and by it i mean the ability to spawn with a OHK weapon. I have stated there are ways both strat wise and loadout wise that can counter the BS. You don’t like a OHK weapon in your loadout. Thats a preference issue not a gameplay. If there was no counter then you would be correct.
I’ve only been killed by a boltshot around 30 times in slayer, it really isn’t that much of a problem.
> > > > > The boltshot is not OP. The problem? its a shotgun that people can start with. No matter what we do short of taking that function off would make everyone happy. <mark>Because no matter how much its nerfed as long as it can OHK it will be an issue.</mark> Solution? Get over it.
> > > >
> > > > Then have it not be a 1HK. And really if “Ignore it” is the best argument you have, you won’t end any argument.
> > >
> > > The Boltshot Was created to have a second function. Without it it would be a glorified Plasma pistol. I know it won’t end the argument. But its what people need to do.
> >
> > So we should just live with an unbalanced weapon in the sandbox?
>
> I assume your calling it unbalanced and by it i mean the ability to spawn with a OHK weapon. I have stated there are ways both strat wise and loadout wise that can counter the BS. You don’t like a OHK weapon in your loadout. Thats a preference issue not a gameplay. If there was no counter then you would be correct.
The only counter to the boltshot’s shotgun function is an ordnance weapon. No weapon in the loadouts can counter it.
> You bring up good points, most of which I agree with. However, I cannot agree with the section on weapons. It doesn’t matter if two players are evenly skilled or not; the one with the DMR, for example, is much more likely to win against the one with the BR (BR to 4sk pl0x). I won’t go up against a DMR guy with any other precison weapon.I mean, I can get the kill, but is it likely? No, it’s not.
> And don’t even get me started on the boltshot.
>
> To continue, one other section I’m finding hard to agree with is the “343 isn’t listening part”. We know they’re listening, but their responses to these immense amounts of criticism are usually very vague or hidden under a bunch of Yoink! no one cares about.
Player skill>stats. I by no means am a great player. But i reg. stomp DMR users with my BR. the .2 seconds doesn’t even matter (killtimes) if you and i stood point blank going for headshots and fired at the same time everytime we would both still die. The difference of the .2 seconds would mean i would start to fall first but my shot still goes through and you still die.
I understand the lack of responses are frustrating. But IMO i wouldn’t respond to this forum considering the amount of blind hate they get. Plus id rather have them spend more time improving the game then trying to change the communities stubborn members minds.