Argument: Halo 4 should take the best of CE-reach

Games Other Halo
#1

Halo 4
I think Halo 4 needs to be Halo 4 not reach2.0 or Halo 3.5. But to ignore what the past game perfect is a fools endevor. Why reinvent the wheel? Halo itself is nothing but a little new stuff and an amalgamation of ring world, unreal tournament, and starship troopers. Harry potter is the same thing, not much new but rather the old done right and put together perfectly. Halo 4 needs to follow this tried and true method and perfect what has been done in halos prior while adding a few new thing.
the below are some of the biggest issues i think H4 should take from its predecessors.

What people fail to realize with a new Halo is that if The game is a FPS with MM there are fundamentals that need to stay due to name sake. McDonalds sells rice in the Philippines but it still sells Big Macs. The point is keep what works but add new things people will love but dont force it on them. Halo has already done EVERY FACET of its experience almost PERFECTLY atleast once in every game. I am going to make an argument as to what each game did the best and why it needs to come back.

1) the game should be built of CE kill times.
Lets face it guys, unless you want laggier games and uneven competition we need lots of players. Reachs dwindling population shows this, you either stomp or get stomped on or the game is wayyyyy laggier then when 300K players were on the week or 2 after release. CE kill times are the goldylocks zone between Reach and COD. Lets face it fast kill times are in, COD being 1&2 shows this since it is a central tennant of COD. But halo offers more with a chance to outskill a player who gets the jump on you. In reach one could AA their way out of trouble and bloom + 5sk and lack of 3 viable headshots on the last shot made kill times so long it drove many players away. COD is virtually hide and go seek. CE gave the first shot a huge advantage but good strafe, positioning, and weapon knowledge and grenade use could turn things around. Its the best middle ground of instakill COD kill times and agonizingly slow Reach kill times

2)duel weilding could be fantastic sub power weapons (GL or shotty)
H2 had this right, 2 SMGS give double firepower but thats were they got it right ends. Spawning with dual weildable weapons makes anyone on the map slightly longer a 1 SMG advantage over newly spawned players. It also as implemented in H2 made the game spray and pray and got rid of nade usage. I propose that any H3 duel weildable weapon should return but that the quantity of the dual weildable weapons be limited. In H3 and H2 duals were everywhere so in H3 they were nerfed. ALL DUALS with 1 min 30 sec-2min respawn and only 1 per map. One side of the map gets an SMG another side gets plasma rifle. A player who can manage to get both now is essentially a 2 man CQB-mid dynamo but hey they earned it like anyone who got rockets did.

#2

Also grenade use should not be removed since it makes duals at a severe disadvantage. I propose pressing up on directional pad so the next left trigger pull will cause cheif to use his theigh holster toss a nade and quickly unholster his weapon.

Again the point here is to make duals sub power weapons SMG=to CE AR and only 1 per map and the other SMG/pr/mauler on the other side of the map (think needler locations on The Pit) or a dual set in a neutral area to be fought for (think The Pit rockets/sword/camo locations.

3) H3 vehicle combat was flawless. except for laser abundance/effeciancy
In H3 the vehicles were amazing, it took concentrated AR fire to bring down banshees and a hog driver could almost laugh at all but the most concentrated BR team shooting. To kill vehicle in H3 equipment, PP, good nade usage or antivehicle weapons were all but REQUIRED. Vehicles are supposed to be something to fear and require immediate adjustment to plans. In reach all vehicles are pretty much a joke.
“Oh look a hog on Hemm”… lets just crouch covered 75% by cover and mindlessly spam to kill/make it useless/significantly reduce its time on feild.
In H3 one had to plan to kill a vehicle and skilled driver/gunner combos could be game changers, a just reward for their skill, knowledge and prudence.
Banshee-took skill and great banshee pilots were rare but that didnt make it any less of a beast by even mediocre players but it was far from the flipping fairy of OP doom it is in reach. In reach anyone who knows how to do a backflip might as well be the red barron.

Laser

The problem with H3 Vehicle combat was the laser. It in itself is a fantastic addition, think construct. but it could also be a bane like in valhalla, “oh look we got the hill and laser… go get em vehicle guys!.. yay we won!” the laser placement there at a very defensible point shut the map down. Also it at spawn as in sandtrap meant it was open season for easily 5-7 laser kills in the first minute of the game. The laser was placed perfectly in Ridgline. Its risky to get it and either use it o rget out of the open but still has some cover which is good and bad. Thats how a laser has to be on maps.

Missile pod
really an unsung AMAZING addition to Halo MP. It was a beast in CQB think valhalla base or going up construct lifts, and decimated unwitting banshee pilots BUT BUT could be avoided with skill/tactics. Id like to see all of the missile pods properties minus the slow walk/ 3rd person movement reskinned in a new plasma launcher with no charge time except maybe for locking on to on foot players at which point
you only get 4 tracking shots and dare i say it … you have to actually controle the missile which moves at H3 speed all while your player is defenseless until you hit something or self destruct the missle.

4) ODST STYLE FIREFIGHT!!!
Hey i like vegging out and playign arcade too but ODST made survival fun by limiting human wepaons, forcing players to ration weapons, and use enemy weapons. Keep arcade fight to action sack.

Fire fight ranking??? WTF?
I say that FF MM games go until you run out of lives like ODST and that for every set and wave you accomplish there should be a little symbol that can go next to your name like where flair is now in reach. EX - so if you beat 1 round/set?(whatever the grouping is where yuou end with a boss wave) you get a silver ODST helmet, do it on legendary in MM get a gold one. beat 1 wave after that the next time and get the Gold helmet and a star, 2 waves-2 stars, maybe beat 2 sets and get an ODST skull w/sword emblem, 3 sets and get that smily face AI guy from ODST. stars are silver for heroic victory, gold for legendary. If you get to the max difficulty iono say 15 hunters/ultras with sheilded bugger support You just get the spartan helmet emblem from halo wars.

The point of FF ranks
The point of this is give incentive to players to play the game and not AFK or play sloppily. thats what customs are for afterall. I dare say that team matching should be based of covi killed/to spartan death so like skilled and minded players are matched up together.

Reach
reach saw some very interesting weapons that need to return. GL is all but universally loved. FOcus rifle shouldnt replace beam rifle and should be powered up to maybe half its kill time. I propose adjustable power on it, faster kill time at the cost of charge or long kill time light charge use so it can really be the “assist rifle”. Armory - very cool but id be nice if the players looked as cool as they doo while you customize it rather than how they look in reach profile where you see their armory completeion/ challenges. I would also like to see AA slayer with updated balanced AAs in either action sack or its own playlist since AAs are fun and mix things up but change how halo is played entirely much like living dead/griffball.

#3

really no thoughts on the points i made?

#4

I’ve had these idea’s for a while and yeah i agree with most of the points you make expect the spartan laser in my opinion was a great addition to counter vehicle combat in halo 3. I think though it should have less shots like Reach and maybe a slightly less spawn time if they decide to bring it back with another valhala remake. Plus power ups from halo 2/3 should also return and for customs it would be cool to have more than one custom powerup. Yellow would be power-up 1 and purple could be custom power-up 2 ect.

#5

> I’ve had these idea’s for a while and yeah i agree with most of the points you make expect the spartan laser in my opinion was a great addition to counter vehicle combat in halo 3. I think though it should have less shots like Reach and maybe a slightly less spawn time if they decide to bring it back with another valhala remake. Plus power ups from halo 2/3 should also return and for customs it would be cool to have more than one custom powerup. Yellow would be power-up 1 and purple could be custom power-up 2 ect.

Since you guys both had the same profile pic. I thought the OP was just bumping himself. LOL…

#6

Haha nah im not the OP, I dont even go on the forums alot, I gave my old account up and made this one.

#7

I"m going to keep saying this.

> Halo: CE → Halo 2 → Halo 3 -->* Halo 4
>
>
> A continuation. I don’t want Halo 2.5 but I don’t want a “Whole new game Halo 4”, I want A CONTINUATION. Learn what worked and what didn’t from the past Halo games.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *Reach is here, and while not a very good Halo game there are definitely things to learn and take from it.

#8

> Haha nah im not the OP, I dont even go on the forums alot, I gave my old account up and made this one.

Yeah, but the OP wants to start a flame war, no, no, no. You must create PEACE!

#9

> > Haha nah im not the OP, I dont even go on the forums alot, I gave my old account up and made this one.
>
> Yeah, but the OP wants to start a flame war, no, no, no. You must create PEACE!

umm how am I trying to start a flame war? I thought it was called discussion and debate?

#10

> > > Haha nah im not the OP, I dont even go on the forums alot, I gave my old account up and made this one.
> >
> > Yeah, but the OP wants to start a flame war, no, no, no. You must create PEACE!
>
> umm how am I trying to start a flame war? I thought it was called discussion and debate?

Argument? Bro if you post something like this, I call that flamebait.

#11

As far as I’m concerned, Halo 4 should take a look at the following things from the Halo games:

CE’s sense of mystery.
H2’s deep story and map design.
H3’s…ehm…let’s see…ah: Theater mode.
ODST’s Firefight (next to a more Reach like mode)
Reach’s Armory, Commendations and darkness in terms of sacrifice during the story.
Wars’ cutscenes (not that I want pre-rendered ones, but in terms of cinematography)

Didn’t put Forge anywhere, because I feel that one should be improved and shouldn’t be like either H3’s or Reach’.

#12

100% agree with everything you said.

#13

> > > > Haha nah im not the OP, I dont even go on the forums alot, I gave my old account up and made this one.
> > >
> > > Yeah, but the OP wants to start a flame war, no, no, no. You must create PEACE!
> >
> > umm how am I trying to start a flame war? I thought it was called discussion and debate?
>
> Argument? Bro if you post something like this, I call that flamebait.

ar·gu·ment [ahr-gyuh-muhnt]
noun

  1. an oral disagreement; verbal opposition; contention; altercation: a violent argument.
  2. a discussion involving differing points of view; debate: They were deeply involved in an argument about inflation.
  3. a process of reasoning; series of reasons
  4. a statement, reason, or fact for or against a point: This is a strong argument in favor of her theory.
  5. an address or composition intended to convince or persuade; persuasive discourse.

So of the 5 meanings for argument 4.5 are about discussion and debate while half of one is for “flame warz”

> As far as I’m concerned, Halo 4 should take a look at the following things from the Halo games:
>
> CE’s sense of mystery.
> H2’s deep story and map design.
> H3’s…ehm…let’s see…ah: Theater mode.
> ODST’s Firefight (next to a more Reach like mode)
> Reach’s Armory, Commendations and darkness in terms of sacrifice during the story.
> Wars’ cutscenes (not that I want pre-rendered ones, but in terms of cinematography)
>
> Didn’t put Forge anywhere, because I feel that one should be improved and shouldn’t be like either H3’s or Reach’.

This was more about multiplayer. Campaign is dope for a day or 2 but most play halo for the multiplayer, just look at CEA and ODST. Not even on the top played games.

as for reach, personally im tired of seeing these characters which are labeled As “hyper lethal vector” or “dont mess with george” and then watching them get dookied on 2 levels later. Spartans are about purified power, the best warfighters humanity has ever produced. So please no more “sacrifice” and getting one shotted in a drive by, Lets here about ALLL the other missions where they were amazing. If i want to here sad sob stories about soldiers id watch CNN.

you and I both agree on ODST, wars, reachs armory.

do you disagree with any of the points i made in the OP?

#14

> > As far as I’m concerned, Halo 4 should take a look at the following things from the Halo games:
> >
> > CE’s sense of mystery.
> > H2’s deep story and map design.
> > H3’s…ehm…let’s see…ah: Theater mode.
> > ODST’s Firefight (next to a more Reach like mode)
> > Reach’s Armory, Commendations and darkness in terms of sacrifice during the story.
> > Wars’ cutscenes (not that I want pre-rendered ones, but in terms of cinematography)
> >
> > Didn’t put Forge anywhere, because I feel that one should be improved and shouldn’t be like either H3’s or Reach’.
>
> This was more about multiplayer. Campaign is dope for a day or 2 but most play halo for the multiplayer, just look at CEA and ODST. Not even on the top played games.
>
> as for reach, personally im tired of seeing these characters which are labeled As “hyper lethal vector” or “dont mess with george” and then watching them get dookied on 2 levels later. Spartans are about purified power, the best warfighters humanity has ever produced. So please no more “sacrifice” and getting one shotted in a drive by, Lets here about ALLL the other missions where they were amazing. If i want to here sad sob stories about soldiers id watch CNN.
>
> you and I both agree on ODST, wars, reachs armory.
>
> do you disagree with any of the points i made in the OP?

I see.
Well, I sort of agree with most of your points (although I wouldn’t dismiss campaign as much as you seem to do). But I think we disagree when it comes to Dual Wielding.

I personally would like to see Dual Wield return on a limited amount of weapons this time around, and those weapons should ONLY come as pairs.
Easiest example would be the SMG opposed to AR.
In my idea SMGs would come in a pair only, and would beat the AR in terms of power on close to short ranged battles due to higher firing rate and wider bullet spread (= more bullets at a larger surface in close range), but would be beaten by the AR in short-medium ranged (and beyond) battles due to the AR being more accurate and having no/less recoil opposed to the SMG.
If you apply that concept to a few weapons you basically create a set of semi-power weapons which are ace at the situations they’re designed for, and will beat the “regular” weapons in those situations. Outside of those situations, they would be good support weapons, but not the super lethal stuff they’re designed to be.

Also: you can’t deny the impact of Six (AKA YOU!) dying at the end during a hopeless struggle was epic. Secondary characters (esspecially some “too brave for their own good” Marines) could and maybe should get some of those roles in cutscenes a bit more often. Think about it: only times you see a human die in a cutscene is when it’s a main or support character. We never saw random Marines being killed (Only in Halo Wars, and implied in a way in CE), while things like that might just as well raise tension and drama. Halo 3 for instance could have used a lot more of those moment. It might not work well for Spartans, but it could definately work for other characters.

#15

> > > As far as I’m concerned, Halo 4 should take a look at the following things from the Halo games:
> > >
> > > CE’s sense of mystery.
> > > H2’s deep story and map design.
> > > H3’s…ehm…let’s see…ah: Theater mode.
> > > ODST’s Firefight (next to a more Reach like mode)
> > > Reach’s Armory, Commendations and darkness in terms of sacrifice during the story.
> > > Wars’ cutscenes (not that I want pre-rendered ones, but in terms of cinematography)
> > >
> > > Didn’t put Forge anywhere, because I feel that one should be improved and shouldn’t be like either H3’s or Reach’.
> >
> > This was more about multiplayer. Campaign is dope for a day or 2 but most play halo for the multiplayer, just look at CEA and ODST. Not even on the top played games.
> >
> > as for reach, personally im tired of seeing these characters which are labeled As “hyper lethal vector” or “dont mess with george” and then watching them get dookied on 2 levels later. Spartans are about purified power, the best warfighters humanity has ever produced. So please no more “sacrifice” and getting one shotted in a drive by, Lets here about ALLL the other missions where they were amazing. If i want to here sad sob stories about soldiers id watch CNN.
> >
> > you and I both agree on ODST, wars, reachs armory.
> >
> > do you disagree with any of the points i made in the OP?
>
> I see.
> Well, I sort of agree with most of your points (although I wouldn’t dismiss campaign as much as you seem to do). But I think we disagree when it comes to Dual Wielding.
>
> I personally would like to see Dual Wield return on a limited amount of weapons this time around, and those weapons should ONLY come as pairs.
> Easiest example would be the SMG opposed to AR.
> In my idea SMGs would come in a pair only, and would beat the AR in terms of power on close to short ranged battles due to higher firing rate and wider bullet spread (= more bullets at a larger surface in close range), but would be beaten by the AR in short-medium ranged (and beyond) battles due to the AR being more accurate and having no/less recoil opposed to the SMG.
> If you apply that concept to a few weapons you basically create a set of semi-power weapons which are ace at the situations they’re designed for, and will beat the “regular” weapons in those situations. Outside of those situations, they would be good support weapons, but not the super lethal stuff they’re designed to be.
>
> Also: you can’t deny the impact of Six (AKA YOU!) dying at the end during a hopeless struggle was epic. Secondary characters (esspecially some “too brave for their own good” Marines) could and maybe should get some of those roles in cutscenes a bit more often. Think about it: only times you see a human die in a cutscene is when it’s a main or support character. We never saw random Marines being killed (Only in Halo Wars, and implied in a way in CE), while things like that might just as well raise tension and drama. Halo 3 for instance could have used a lot more of those moment. It might not work well for Spartans, but it could definately work for other characters.

Im not downplayign campaign but MP is bread and butter halo, campaign is amazing and i always play it first but halo is a game and most would agree that solitare isnt as good as poker (translation:playign against people is better than playing a non human)

the Duals you describe ar basically the H3 version except they are forced pairs. The problem with this set up are 1) the fact the AR can beat you mid range makes them useless especially when you cant use grenades. hence why no one ever really used duals much in H3.

In my system AR=1 SMG since you need an auto secondary and a secondary that can be dual weilded leads to dumb gameplay as H2 SMG starts showed.

SMG is only amazing when paired with another SMG or other dual weildable weapon. at that point it gives you double the fire power. makeing it childs play to kill any AR user and soundly beat precision users in CQB and close mid and be tied at mid. This combo is rare like how the shotgun is rare.

to further power the duals grenades use is still enabled so that duals are a real edge to be fought for, not a detriment liek they were in H3.

My line of thought comes from CE where every weapon is desireable to get and to be used in their own situation. basically the AR is a reskinned no dual weildable SMG thats a great secondary weapon and is better than precision in CQB. The SMG is just great in that once you get another or plasma you are now given unique abilities on the field.

RESULTS
-duals useful
-duals promote map movement
-promote weapon conservation
-add a new niche

EDIT

I agree on the marines

  • N6 was epic but i would have rather of seen a cutscene or play a part of that level where you wipe out hundreds of covi but simply get overwhelemed. Instead you killa few then get overwhelmed. It owuld have been great to see why he is a hyper lethal vector and watch him kick butt for a while. that would make you invest in him an dliek him and then be sad when you see him give his all but just have the situation be liek that kid in MM who goes +31 and still loses in BTB, 1 man can do alot but its soemtimes just not enough.
#16

> > > > > Haha nah im not the OP, I dont even go on the forums alot, I gave my old account up and made this one.
> > > >
> > > > Yeah, but the OP wants to start a flame war, no, no, no. You must create PEACE!
> > >
> > > umm how am I trying to start a flame war? I thought it was called discussion and debate?
> >
> > Argument? Bro if you post something like this, I call that flamebait.
>
> ar·gu·ment [ahr-gyuh-muhnt]
> noun
> 1. an oral disagreement; verbal opposition; contention; altercation: a violent argument.
> 2. a discussion involving differing points of view; debate: They were deeply involved in an argument about inflation.
> 3. a process of reasoning; series of reasons
> 4. a statement, reason, or fact for or against a point: This is a strong argument in favor of her theory.
> 5. an address or composition intended to convince or persuade; persuasive discourse.
>
> So of the 5 meanings for argument 4.5 are about discussion and debate while half of one is for “flame warz”
>
>
>
> > As far as I’m concerned, Halo 4 should take a look at the following things from the Halo games:
> >
> > CE’s sense of mystery.
> > H2’s deep story and map design.
> > H3’s…ehm…let’s see…ah: Theater mode.
> > ODST’s Firefight (next to a more Reach like mode)
> > Reach’s Armory, Commendations and darkness in terms of sacrifice during the story.
> > Wars’ cutscenes (not that I want pre-rendered ones, but in terms of cinematography)
> >
> > Didn’t put Forge anywhere, because I feel that one should be improved and shouldn’t be like either H3’s or Reach’.
>
> This was more about multiplayer. Campaign is dope for a day or 2 but most play halo for the multiplayer, just look at CEA and ODST. Not even on the top played games.
>
> as for reach, personally im tired of seeing these characters which are labeled As “hyper lethal vector” or “dont mess with george” and then watching them get dookied on 2 levels later. Spartans are about purified power, the best warfighters humanity has ever produced. So please no more “sacrifice” and getting one shotted in a drive by, Lets here about ALLL the other missions where they were amazing. If i want to here sad sob stories about soldiers id watch CNN.
>
> you and I both agree on ODST, wars, reachs armory.
>
> do you disagree with any of the points i made in the OP?

Don’t you see, your already starting a Flame War!! holds up sign with peace on it

#17

Yes, Halo 4 should have its own unique style, but take the best from reach and the previous trilogy. Totally agree.

#18

lol, just got one thing to say before I start my response to OP: "sniff sniff whats that smell? It’s so familiar sniff… sniff is that sniff… bi.tc.h.ing?

OP: Good thoughts to learn from the previous Halo’s as I’m sure everyone desires a return to a previous version of Halo’s 1 - 3, but when it comes down to games, myself and a few friend would rather have a challenge aspect built in. This particular challenge is actually one that says, “the previous formula was good… now lets throw a curve ball”. It’s the reason why Halo: Reach is the definition of a competitive game. Can’t say I’ve witnessed people say it takes more skill to kill someone with 5 headshots then 4. Can’t say I’ve seen many people admitting it is more challenging to pace your shooting. But I’m not posting this to start anything so I’ll stop there. Ultimately, I’d rather have a new system, with new mechanics, then repeat history and roll the dice that Halo will be like any of the previous Halos… all the same though, I can’t wait for Halo 4 and whatever that may encompass.