Have you been playing a ton of Halo 5? Us too!
The multiplayer team is looking for your feedback on weapon, power weapon, and power up layouts. Which maps are well balanced? Which weapons would you move or replace? Which power ups would you move around?
Let us know what you like and what you don’t as we work to continually improve Halo 5’s Arena maps. We look forward to hearing your feedback!
-No storm rifles on Fathom or Empire. Too many CQC weapons. Definitely on Empire, debatable for Fathom.
-Take sword off Overgrowth in slayer and move active camo so that it isnt right next to shotgun, maybe move it to top middle. Camo is just in a weird spot.
-Less ammo in the railgun on all maps, like 2 less bullets
-Maybe replace the fuel rod on Regret or give it less ammo
Thats all i can think of atm, also no one really uses plasma caster on Truth.
Edit: also can gametypes used in tournaments be the same as team arena. Like normal breakout isnt in team arena anymore yet its still in tournaments and for some reason strongholds on Coliseum is a thing. I thought team arena was supposed to be an HCS playlist. Needs consistency.
Overgrowth - Sword need to go, move shotty where sword was. Maybe exchange camo and rail locations.
Empire - Remove Storm rifles from outside, maybe put one in bottom center (between OS and Shotty spawns).
Truth - Remove Storm rifles.
Regret - Remove Storm rifles, maybe put one near plasma pistol spawn.
-Move all powerups to static spawns and decrease their respawn time. 60 seconds for OS and Camo, 2 minutes for rockets, 2 minutes at MAXIMUM for sniper
Overgrowth is dominated by the Shotgun and Sword, which leads to snowballing for whomever picks them up. They’re simply too strong on that map. In exchange, it might be better to have two power weapons, the Railgun and Plasma Caster in their places, with the Camo moved to the center.
Empire is much too CQC heavy with its Shotgun, two Storm Rifles, and two SMGs. For a small map like that, it might flow better if that was trimmed down to just two Storm Rifles or just two SMGs, with a proper power weapon in the Shotgun’s place. Case in point, Eden shares a similar geometry, but it has very little of the CQC domination that plagues Empire.
The Plasma Caster gets ignored on Truth. A Fuel Rod or a Rocket Launcher might be a better choice to incite movement. Also, the bridge is a strong power position, but it has a tendency to be camped and held. Relocating the Carbine spawn to the old DMR spawn that was in the Beta might address that issue, as well as provide a pickup weapon for players who spawn there.
Pegasus is very biased towards the Red team since they’re guaranteed the Sniper Rifle and they spawn with higher ground, making it easier for them to control the Rocket Launcher. It’d be much less of an issue if Red team’s spawn and the Sniper Rifle spawn were swapped, with the Rocket Launcher being relocated to the true center of the map. That way, neither team has the upper ground advantage and both have an equal chance at pushing for power items.
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First things first, I agree with everyone that Overgrowth needs a bit of re-balancing. Camo and Shotgun spawn too close together on Blue Side. It gives the Blue Team a significant starting advantage. Every time I get Overgrowth in rotation I pray that I spawn Blue.
There is then the discussion of whether Powerups should have static spawns. As of right now, I am indifferent to it until I can test how it works in actual matches. Maybe have a Social Playlist that tests new changes, like static powerups.
I feel that grenades are a bit too plentiful in virtually every Arena map. I think that they should be toned down a little bit.
CQC Weapon Spawns could be toned a bit, but it is not a priority for me.
Current weapon balance feels really good to me, so have no input on that other then great job.
A little bit off topic, but there is no other official thread I see to post it, but I feel Bullet Magnetism needs to be toned down a bit (more so on the Sniper, hitbox for the head seems to be too big). It leads to some odd kills. I am not saying to remove it, but it just needs some tweaking.
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> > -Move all powerups to static spawns… This would need to be tested, but I like the way it is now.**.- buff pistol to 4sk and remove its magnetism. Creates a skillful, fast to kill but hard to perfect weapon. … I love the " hard to perfect" approach, but not the “fast to kill” one. The pistol does not need a buff, but its magnetism should be lowered (even for other weapons like the Sniper Rifle). The time to kill should be increased throughout the game as I feel that it is slightly low for a Halo game
Why not fast to kill? Waypoint must completely forget halo 1. Fast to kill weaponry means empowering the individual player and giving them a weapon that can take out multiple people, but only if you’re skillful. In CE, nobody hit perfect 3 shots all the time, because it was hard. Making a 4sk magnum with zero mag and low TTK means we have a weapon that lets skill do the talking. As it stands, Halo 5’s meta has turned to teamshooting due to slow TTK combined with thrust and sprint
I’m going to leap off of killmachine’s post and continue the discussion of TTK, because I think it’s the single most important discussion for the future of this franchise.
First things first: your average Halo player, who likely really began their multiplayer experience with Halo 2 or Halo 3, is not going to agree with this. At all. That player is going to espouse the mantra that Bungle established from Halo 2 to Halo Reach: that long TTKs make things more “interesting” and allow “more things to happen”.
Which is fine on paper, but there are two problems:
It’s not true (which we’ll discuss)
It’s no longer marketable, especially in the post-CoD world.
To elaborate on point number one, the fundamental flaw of >1 sec killtimes is simple: nothing interesting happens, players simply are allowed more time to escape. Which they do, until their teammate comes to bail them out. Which isn’t a bad thing, but the problem is that with the current killspeeds, this type of teamshot is the only viable ststrategy in the metagame. Players from Diamond and upwards are simply not going to allow you to best them through individual effort, and from Onyx and up you can forget it. It’s why this game is a nightmare to play solo. Say what you will about CoD, but it’s satisfying to know that I can be matched solo against clans and pick them apart through individual skill. Which takes me to point two.
Bullet sponge, whack-a-mole, teamshot gameplay is simply not marketable anymore. Your competitive scene wants a faster TTK because we miss seeing raw individual skill as a prominent factor in the meta game. But more importantly, look at the silent masses who have simply abandoned this franchise. No matter which shooter surges, they all have one thing in common: fights are resolved, instead of devolving into endless retreat and bait and switch gameplay. There’s a reason Bungie abandoned that philosophy when they made Destiny. There’s a reason other games with lengthy TTKs, such as Gears of War, don’t enjoy enduring populations: its just not fun to watch your battles slip away to retreat.
I suspect you already know this. After all, Halo 5 does have a quicker TTK than any since CE (.6 sec perfect kill), with the H5 magnum currently sitting around a 1.2 second perfect kill. And to be fair, I enjoy it! It’s nice to see fights resolved, unlike Halo 3 and Reach. There’s just one problem: the Spartan Abilities, designed to create a fast-paced game, have backfired. That 1.2 seconds seems quick, but when an enemy can simply thrust to cover and sprint to a teammate, it’s a lifetime.
The solution, to me, is simple: buff the Magnum to a 4sk at roughly 1 second even perfect kill. This is still infinitely longer than CoD, longer than CE, and more than long enough to maintain teamshot as a crucial team skill. Readjust the ROF of all precision weapons to stay proportionate and then cut bullet magnetism across the board. I cannot stress this enough. This is where your “interesting moments” come from: the ability for a player to quickly and skillfully execute.
I don’t expect most to agree with this. I was lucky enough to get to LAN Halo CE at a fairly high level for a long time, and it defines my love of the franchise. I won’t hide my bias: I want Halo 5 to use CE as its core inspiration. I understand that there will always be the drive to modernize, and that’s fine. But if we create a faster, more skillful game, that drive to modernize (such as Spartan Abilties) will come much more naturally (CoD went from a WW2 shooter to flying cyborgs and no one batted an eye; we can’t even agree on sprint).
And by the way, you wanna fix doubles and FFA? It’s simple: empower the individual. Do that, and those playlists will be fixed. And if you don’t agree, think about this: why are double digit assists still a problem in 6 man FFA? The answer is simple: teamshot Halo means teamshot FFA, which should show you what individual effort currently counts for.
There should be a Play Labs playlist made available to test any and all changes that are being considered by 343i. That way the community can test them and give feedback and what works and what doesn’t and what needs some refinement/tweaking.
Semi-related suggestion: Would we be able to get a priority weapon pickup? For example, you may have difficulty picking up overshield if there are multiple dropped ARs and pistols on top of the spawn.
Power ups -> Rockets/Snipers -> Tier 2 Power weapons -> base weapons
GENERAL SANDBOX FEEDBACK:
EMPIRE
Storm Rifle (which needs a nerf) should be removed or find a new home. Limit from 2 Storm Rifles on map to only 1. Possibly replace Plasma Pistol or place somewhere in Tower. aka reduce Automatic Tier 1 abundance - Buff Plasma Caster or replace with Rockets
FATHOM:
Nerf Storm Rifle or replace with new weapon (Suppressor perhaps) - Reduce Tier-1 abundance (Remove BRs perhaps)
TRUTH:
Nerf Storm Rifle or replace with a new weapon in its current location. (1) Storm Rifle on Truth would be alright, perhaps placed Pink 1 - Reduce Tier-1 abundance
EDEN:
dis a gud map right here
COLISEUM:
Reduce rifle abundance (Removing BRs would promote more Pistol engagements and would reinforce the role of the DMR holder as the ‘anchor/support’ of the team; also reduced randomness of gunfights) - Otherwise this map is good
THE RIG:
Buff Plasma Caster or replace w/ Rockets
OVERGROWTH:
Unify the Slayer and Strongholds layouts, don’t separate them. - Plasma Caster Top-Mid - Camo in current location - OS or Speed Boost at Sword Location - Remove Sword - Remove Shotgun - Profit
REGRET:
Reduce rifle abundance (Remove Carbines) - Consider replacing Needler with a Tier 2 item that is a bit more incentivizing (Shotgun, Scattershot, or even Plasma Caster if it isn’t buffed)
PLAZA:
Consider replacing Hydra with something a bit stronger like Rockets/Plasma Caster but this map isn’t too bad as is - Reduce Tier 1 abundance (SMGs/Storms)(BRs/LRs)
GAMBOL
Replace Shotgun with a stronger weapon (Plasma Caster, Hydra, Rockets, Sniper) literally anything to make the push towards right as viable as setting up for Camo. Balancing out these two lanes will make this map amazing (as goes for every Breakout map)
TRIDENT
Good map, but weapons on each side could be and should be stronger. Throw in a Shotgun, Plasma Caster, or Sniper on both sides instead of DMR/Hydra. Powerups are also a viable option.
CROSSFIRE
Same issues as Trident and Gambol, make the two lanes more powerful to fight over
ALTITUDE
Make bottom middle a stronger placement (seems to be a recurring theme for Breakout, huh?), replace Hydra with Camo perhaps
ARENA BREAKOUT
Please refer to my feedback on Arena Breakout here. I believe it is currently VERY damaging to have both variants in matchmaking and I also currently believe that Breakout > Arena Breakout. One of the major themes of that feedback is that maps need to have MORE viable power weapons to contest and setup over, allowing strong comeback opportunities and clutch plays. Since this thread is about weapon placements, I will touch on Arena Breakout specific maps. Flag placement across the board is also way too powerful.
EDEN
Rockets in Turbine - Camo or Snipe in Security
EMPIRE
Rockets/Plasma Caster outside - Shotgun OR Powerup Tower 1
THE RIG
I actually believe the standard Slayer layout would work well for Breakout. Sniper and Rockets/Plasma Caster on opposite sides of the map for teams to fight for.
PLAZA
Rockets in Plaza/Yard - Sniper in Cinema - Possible Powerup Bottom Mid
COLISEUM
Place something to incentivize the Snipe Tower push. Sniper or Hydra perhaps
REGRET
Place something below Overhang to counter the Shotgun in TunnelHopefully you get the trend. Arena Breakout fails because there aren’t strong enough weapons for teams to fight over. Currently its just two teams of four getting slammed into each other for 9 rounds in a row. It plays better on larger maps rather than smaller ones. Remove Regret, Empire, Fathom, etc., and tweak Plaza, Eden, Truth, Rig, etc. to play better.
I got a chance to mess around with the plasma caster in some BTB custom games and it helped me to realize that the gun is actually very strong against vehicles due to the insane tracking that it has on vehicles when charged compared to the very minimal tracking it has on infantry when charged. I like this gun a lot but I feel like it is out of place on most of the 4v4 maps that it is placed on. I feel it would be better for gameplay on the smaller 4v4 maps if the plasma caster was replaced with the SPNKR Rocket launcher and I wish the plasma caster was implemented in all of the current BTB maps instead due to it’s ease of use against vehicles because almost all if not all of the BTB maps don’t have a solid weapon to take out vehicles easily. Granted the sniper normally works for me but I know most players would have an easier time combating rouge warthogs or ghost tearing their team up on basin or recurve if they had a power weapon like the Plasma caster to help take them down. Also I really feel like this weapon is overall still underutilized and I think it is a very fun and interesting design for a weapon but most people don’t understand how to use the charged up alternate firing method and just end up spamming 10 mini plasma grenades. Putting this gun on a few more BTB maps may help them learn to understand when to use the charge and when to spam the primary fire.
Just keeping mine simple since the game plays beautiful.
Weapon balance is perfect.
I agree overgrowth should have one less close range power weapon.
Power weapons do spawn too fast on all maps.
Medium sized maps would be great. Example being something like high ground.
Completely re-vamp the weapon layout of Regret. OS and Fuel Rod make the map play horribly… needs more BR’s too. Scattershot would be cool on that map too.
Truth :
Remove Plasma Caster from the middle and replace it with the Sword. As it stands now, the middle area is rarely ever crossed, since the Plasma Caster isn’t worth the risk of getting shot at from all sides. And then, since the Sword is no longer in bottom, I would say replace it with a shotgun. I much prefer the way the map flowed in the Beta, since players would move pretty much everywhere, top, bottom, sides. But now? It’s more of a dance around the edges of the map and the bases.
Fathom :
My biggest issue with this map is the Railgun. Since it’s a one-shot kill and has so much range/ammo, it completely dominates. The fact that it spawns so quickly doesn’t help either. If there’s a map for the Plasma Caster, it’s this one. The top would still be a power position worth holding, but it wouldn’t be as dominant.
Overgrowth :
I do like this map, but as others have said, the weapon layout on this map doesn’t work. Shotgun and Camo beside eachn other? Not good. The Railgun is fine, since the close quarters nature give it a good risk vs reward nature. But again, it could use less spare ammo. Two shots less, such as it was suggested above, could work well. I think the Shotgun is a good weapon to have as well, but it shouldn’t be in the position it is now. As for the Sword, it’s too dominant on the map. Replacing it with, say, a Hydra Launcher could help alleviate the excessive CBQ focus of the map.
On top of that, I find that there just aren’t enough weapons on the map. There’s, what, a single BR? A Suppressor? The map design is nice, but it’s not very well complimented by the weapons you find on it.
Coliseum :
For a map with a lot of interesting lower areas to explore, I find that this map has too much emphasis on pot-shooting people across the map with the BR. Take them away and I think we’d have a map that has more flow to it, since there would be more focus on the bottom areas. Maybe the Scattershot could be better placed up where Rockets are now, which could be moved to the bottom middle. Again, but a bit more emphasis on those lower zones.
Regret :
I’m not sure the Fuel Rod Gun and Overshield combo works well on this map. I enjoyed having the Hydra Launcher on the bottom in the Beta, maybe that could come back? And then the Fuel Rod Gun could be replaced with something different, a Scattershot or Plasma Caster might work better.
The three big things overall that are ruining thia games balance is what Infinity said anout abundance of tier 1 weapons, causing unpredictable battles with lopsided weapon thats 90% of the time to go to the higher T1 weapon, the long TTK for your magnum (the “utility weapon” of the game like Quinnsaid it was supposed to be), and the powerups not consistently coming up at the same time.