Are you satisfied with the CSR?

Games Halo 5: Guardians
1

…because i have my doubts about it.

First things first, my rant is about the name, “CSR” (Combat Skill Rating). Well, as you can see, it should evaluate your combat skill… but in reality, it’s a calculation of “Wins x Defeats”, and should be called “WLR” (Win Lose Rating), because thats how it works. Its based on your win and lose, not on how your perfomed on the match.

“But dude, this system is the same from League of Legends, Dota 2, and every othergame with MMR”. Yeah, i know it. But doenst means it is good, right? Let me show an example.

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Here. Check the enemy team rank, and my team rank. The 3/17 dude was playing it for the first time. The 4/7 left the game. I literally stood against 4 players almost by myself. Is that balanced? Totally not, but its ok. Did i lost a lot of CSR points? Well, i dont know, because it dont show the points balance :confused: And that didnt happened once, or twice… it’s happening a lot. I even left the team playlist because there was some dudes who just didn’t know that the map had an objective beside killing the enemy team. I mean, one dude ended with 0 captures and 0 defenses in fortress…

So, yeah. Thats my question. Are you guys satisfied with it?

2

I don’t know if i can say i’m unsatisfied. I got ranked gold 1 even though i have a 5 matches won and 5 lost, and a K/D of 1,196. Yes, there was a match where i and another unranked guy managed to defeat a team of golds on strongholds, and there was another CTF match where i managed to keep the flag in our base and my team made a comeback from 0-2 to winning, but i’m not that good to be given a gold 1 rating.

3

I always say that Halo should retain the Halo 3 ranking system. No need to alter a ranking system that works.

4

Nope. That number is purely rated on matches won/lost. If the kda is considered in this system, then only to a minor factor.
Sucks to be the team with 2 players left getting torn apart and then getting de-ranked.
Not quite sure if 343 lacks talent in this regard. Disadvantages of this system should be obvious to everyone.

5

> 2533274852660538;3:
> I always say that Halo should retain the Halo 3 ranking system. No need to alter a ranking system that works.

I liked the H3 rating system and they should’ve stuck to it

6

The rating system works fine, the problem is that either players keep leaving prematurely for some unknown reason (whether it be due to the game dropping them, their crappy internet, or their egos) or the fact that there is no party restrictions at all in matchmaking. (In other words, a team of 4 can pair up against 4 people solo queueing.)

7

> 2533274807207504;5:
> > 2533274852660538;3:
> > I always say that Halo should retain the Halo 3 ranking system. No need to alter a ranking system that works.
>
>
> I liked the H3 rating system and they should’ve stuck to it

I like the idea of the Halo 3, 1-50, but in actuality it was trash. Once you got to the higher levels (40+) there were so many boosters and people purposely decreasing their rank that it was near impossible to get a decent, honest game.

I loved Halo 3, but let us not pretend that its ranking system was some flawless masterpiece. It was flawed, broken, and needed to be replaced.

8

Agreed. 3so system was by far the most rewarding. Some tweaks and it should have been the halos ranking system in perpetuity.

9

Its okay but I do agree that the halo 3 system would of been nice to have

10

This should help you better understanding the Competitive Skill Ranking (CSR) system in Halo 5: Guardians…

Microsoft’s TrueSkill system is still the backbone of all Xbox games including Halo 5: Guardians’ matchmaking. A player’s TrueSkill level going into a new game brings with it a provisional rating based on their overall matchmaking history on Xbox Live; though, under the new game their standard deviation will be wide which means the initial performances will be quite impactful and is also the reason why 10 matches are necessary before assigning someone a Competitive Skill Rank (CSR) for a playlist.

The placement matches that a player plays to earn their CSR within Arena is measuring their individual performance against all the other individuals within the match; teammates included. The CSRs use Microsoft’s TrueSkill system to determine whether or not a player is performing above or below expectations according to the TrueSkill levels of their opponents and teammates. Prior to earning a playlist CSR the matchmaking system depends solely on a player’s TrueSkill level to find relatively fair opponents.

Once a player is given a divisional rank for a particular playlist based on their “placement” performances in relation to the TrueSkill levels they competed against and with then moving up and down the tiers within the division they got placed into (or numerical number within Onyx) is based solely on match outcomes (wins verse losses); in other words, within team-based game types their CSRs are no longer influenced by the individual performance they put up, but instead by the team’s performance. If a player is able to win consistently enough they can earn the ability to go up to the next divisional rank, but they can never lose enough to drop below the divisional rank they’re in (this is meant to prevent people from trying to delevel).

All in all, Microsoft’s TrueSkill system is the main component factoring into CSRs and the matchmaking search system; although, the playlist CSRs do provide the matchmaking system further refinement in trying to locate more ideal match-ups by being game type specific. The individual performances during the placement stage and the ability to win matches after receiving a CSR seem to be the means by which most try to understand CSRs, but people need to understand that there’s much more factoring into it then just those two things on the surface. Also, the more experience a player puts into the game and playlist the more reliable and accurate their TrueSkill and CSR should become.

11

The thing is, it’s not just win/lose. After researching I found out that it counts as a win if you’re top 3, even if you lose. And if you win AND do really good then you get an extra bonus. Same reason why my win/lose ratio is garbage, but I have onyx in Swat, FFA and Team Deathmatch. I dont have a problem with the system. My only complaint is that the CSR score when you get to Onyx is kind of odd. I wish it was an actual leaderboard system so you can compare yourself to the person behind and in front of you on the boards. Also gives you a clear goal on what you need to improve on, how to get to Champion. If you make it a true leaderboard system, I have a feeling it would vastly increase H:5’s replay value, and give people more of a reason to not set their controller down.

12

> 2775209234672000;10:
> This should help you better understanding the Competitive Skill Ranking (CSR) system in Halo 5: Guardians…
>
> Microsoft’s TrueSkill system is still the backbone of all Xbox games including Halo 5: Guardians’ matchmaking; it factors greatly into its’ playlist CSRs.
>
> The placement matches for earning your CSR within Arena are measuring you’re individual performance against all the other individuals within the match as well as those who have participated within the playlist in total. CSRs use Microsoft’s TrueSkill system to determine whether or not you’re performing above or below expectations; basically, your Microsoft TrueSkill level factors in not only with influencing what type of skilled players you’ll get matched against, but also regarding your individual performance against your opponents (and their TrueSkill levels) as well as your own teammates (and their TrueSkill levels).
>
> Overall, your divisional CSR placement for a particular playlist will be a factor of all those components combined on top of the range of skill the playlist has seen; in other words, the total range of skills that have ventured into that particular playlist.
>
> Once you’re placed into your divisional rank for a particular playlist then moving up and down the tiers within that division (or numerical number within Onyx) is based solely on match outcomes (wins verse losses) and not your individual performance. If you’re able to win consistently enough you can earn the ability to go up to the next divisional rank, but you can never lose enough to drop below the divisional rank you’re in (this is meant to prevent people from trying to delevel).
>
> All in all, Microsoft’s TrueSkill system is the main component factoring into your CSR; though, it’s’ effect isn’t easily understood. The individual performances during the placement stage (affected by who you’re facing and playing with) and your ability to win matches after being placed are the main means by which we relate to when trying to understand our CSR.

While I don’t actually understand it, we’ll have to give the game a little more time to actually see the potential it has.

13

Unfortunately, the ranking system is broken. I used one of my other accounts that I use for my non-competitive side and I played 10 games of Arena Slayer. In these 10 matches, I tried my hardest to lose every match. In essence, I was being a true -Yoink- bag and I imagine after reading this most people will hate me. I was committing suicide, betraying my teammates, shooting the air and throwing grenades at my teammates when they were getting shot at from the opposition. If I knew my team was going to lose, I would start to try and I would get some kills for the fun of it. One game, I knew my team was going to win, so I quit. Somehow, I think I still ended up winning 4 out of the 10 games even though my KDA was in the negative teens. For the most part, I placed last on my team and some games I ended it with 0 kills - 20 deaths. Guess what my rank was? Gold 1. Everyone is going to say, well you won 4 out of 10 games and it is only based solely on your wins. Okay then, read the next segment…

Then I decided to play 10 FFA games. I was actually trying on these games, but I was just not having any luck and I was getting pretty frustrated because I was being killed from behind majority of the time. Anyways, in the 10 games my best two positions were 2nd and 3rd. I did not win one match and for the other 8 games, I was either in 6th, 7th or 8th. Guess what my rank was? Onyx.

Based on my performance in both playlist, I should have been a Bronze. Yet, I have never played with a bronze and I have played the game on 3 different accounts for a total of over 24 hours: ChoplaSTEVE, GivingBLUMPKIN and another account in which I do not want to name.

If you don’t believe me, check out any of the Gamertag’s listed above. The account I was doing the test on was - GivingBLUMPKIN. I have started to try on this account, if you look at my win percentage and my KD, it won’t reflect my description above. If you look at game history and go to the beginning, you will see I am not lying.

Lastly, based on my behaviour, I should have been banned. I did not receive one ban and I played in the Slayer playlist last week. Some people have been saying it takes a couple of hours to a couple of days to get notice of the ban and yet it has been 3 - 4 days and I haven’t been banned. Hopefully, after writing this I don’t get banned. If anything, this should be taken and reviewed by 343 because this should not have happened.

I only did this because my first rank was Platinum on the ChoplaSTEVE account and I was getting killed in the first couple of days. Now, I can play with the Platinum’s and Diamond’s and be pretty successful.

14

Before, getting a 50 was obtainable, hard but doable with good skills and a team. Now? You have to grind to it only to be knocked out of Champion meaning you have to play A LOT. Unless Onyx is the new 50 and Champion is just for the elite.

15

> 2701489597929026;14:
> Before, getting a 50 was obtainable, hard but doable with good skills and a team. Now? You have to grind to it only to be knocked out of Champion meaning you have to play A LOT. Unless Onyx is the new 50 and Champion is just for the elite.

No way Onyx is the new 50, because you didn’t have severely below-average players randomly getting 50’s the day the game came out.

A better answer is that there is no 50 in this game, and Champion doesn’t really apply to that ranking system because you have to continue playing to keep it.

16

how are the rankings broken down now relative to the old 1-50?

I game mostly on PC now, but always come back for some halo action every now and then. Historically i have been pretty good at halo, (46 in the first 90 wins on h3, but was exp locked? i remember that being a thing because i couldnt budge from 46. Also only played solo in TS, so that could be a thing too. was a 34 in H2 back in its hay day) and naturally have rust to knock off in halo considering all the changes. But, i was placed at Plat 1 after failing to win trying to carry my cod friends who were going - 8 every match, but i had about a 1.8 K/D. What is the platinum ranking relative to the 1-50 system of H3. I dont know how to go up and down ranks. I was simply playing and moved up to Plat 2 for whatever reason. Just a random win after a loss.

This system is kind of confusing. If you cant move down ranks, then there is no risk involved. There is no where to go but up. This gives you no incentive to become a better player or to stick in a game and work out comeback strategies with your teammates in the face of a bad start… its just the same old no one communicates and then quits when the going gets tough CoD mentality. The backbone of H3 and H2 was needing to communicate and work together. That is gone from gaming now.

EDIT: Grammar

17

> 2533274804556982;16:
> how are the rankings broken down now relative to the old 1-50?

EDIT: One more thing. You CAN go down within a Rank. You can go Diamond 4 to Diamond 3 down to Diamond 1. Also, within Onyx, you can drop all the way back to 1500 (base Onyx) whereas Champion players are up around 1900 Onyx in e.g. Team Arena.

Halo 2 and Halo 3 both had 1-50, but were very different in meaning.

In Halo 2 (after the patch, etc.), 1-30 was almost just grind. If you check the math, it actually pulls everyone up to around 30 unless you are brainless. 30-40 is mostly random to be honest. 40-45 was a little hard. 45-50 got crazy hard to get.

In Halo 3, it was a bell curve with 25 at the middle, but there was inflation that wasn’t corrected for. So, in theory, 50 was 3 standard deviations out. But in practice, it was only around 1.5 - 2 or less because of both inflation and cheating, etc. So you got this big stack of players at 50, and the skill difference between them was enormous.

In Halo 5, a Halo 2 “50” is most like “Champion”, but a Halo 3 “50” is more like Onyx — except there seems to be a bug or something that makes Onyx easy for Swat and FFA, but more normal for “Team Arena”

tl;dr:
Halo 5 “Champion” is a Halo 2 50
Halo 5 “Onyx” is a Halo 3 50 for Team Arena
Halo 5 “High level Onyx player – 1900” is probably a 50 for FFA and SWAT.

18

> 2533274839818445;17:
> > 2533274804556982;16:
> > how are the rankings broken down now relative to the old 1-50?
>
>
> tl;dr:
> Halo 5 “Champion” is a Halo 2 50
> Halo 5 “Onyx” is a Halo 3 50 for Team Arena
> Halo 5 “High level Onyx player – 1900” is probably a 50 for FFA and SWAT.

Halo 5 Champion - Halo 3 50
Halo 5 Onyx - 45-50
Halo 5 Platinum - 40-44
Halo 5 Gold - 30-39
Halo 5 Silver - 20-29
Halo 5 Bronze - 1-19

Champion isn’t as hard as it seems. Also it depends on the population of the playlist. Breakout’s Champion cutoff is around 1650 the last time I checked, while SWAT’s is 2100 or something like that.

Replying to OP, I wish that there was a way for people to drop ranks, lets say 3 losses at minimum rank in each tier. If you lose 3 times in a row at Diamond 1 at 0% then you should be deranked to Platinum 6. Just my opinion. I am tired of having people who are Diamond 1 in Slayer after 200 games and have a negative W/L and negative K/D. They should be deranked.

19

> 2533274839818445;17:
> > 2533274804556982;16:
> > how are the rankings broken down now relative to the old 1-50?
>
>
>
>
> Halo 2 and Halo 3 both had 1-50, but were very different in meaning.
>
> In Halo 2 (after the patch, etc.), 1-30 was almost just grind. If you check the math, it actually pulls everyone up to around 30 unless you are brainless. 30-40 is mostly random to be honest. 40-45 was a little hard. 45-50 got crazy hard to get.
>
> In Halo 3, it was a bell curve with 25 at the middle, but there was inflation that wasn’t corrected for. So, in theory, 50 was 3 standard deviations out. But in practice, it was only around 1.5 - 2 or less because of both inflation and cheating, etc. So you got this big stack of players at 50, and the skill difference between them was enormous.

from what i remember for Halo 2, is that once you hit about 33, that skill difference moving forward really wasnt that different. I also recall having many win streaks broken due to modders or standbyers so i eventually just gave up on ranked. However, i would play customs with people who were level 31-50, and it was really competitive. i always thought your average skilled H2 player was about a rank 22-25 or so. In regards to the Halo 3 level 50, yeah i completely agree with that. I had a friend who was a 50 in multiple playlists, but was far worse than i was. i think he had a .9 k/d or something like that in ranked, whereas i had something like a 1.4. So, there was an issue there of getting to 50 as not being a true testimate of how good you were.

I just feel like this new ranking system lacks something. there seems like there is less at stake when you enter a match. This is echoed by the fact that people just quit all the time. Maybe it is just a recognition thing, and we need to give this system a little more time.

20

> 2533274839818445;17:
> > 2533274804556982;16:
> > how are the rankings broken down now relative to the old 1-50?
>
>
> EDIT: One more thing. You CAN go down within a Rank. You can go Diamond 4 to Diamond 3 down to Diamond 1. Also, within Onyx, you can drop all the way back to 1500 (base Onyx) whereas Champion players are up around 1900 Onyx in e.g. Team Arena.
>
> Halo 2 and Halo 3 both had 1-50, but were very different in meaning.
>
> In Halo 2 (after the patch, etc.), 1-30 was almost just grind. If you check the math, it actually pulls everyone up to around 30 unless you are brainless. 30-40 is mostly random to be honest. 40-45 was a little hard. 45-50 got crazy hard to get.
>
> In Halo 3, it was a bell curve with 25 at the middle, but there was inflation that wasn’t corrected for. So, in theory, 50 was 3 standard deviations out. But in practice, it was only around 1.5 - 2 or less because of both inflation and cheating, etc. So you got this big stack of players at 50, and the skill difference between them was enormous.
>
> In Halo 5, a Halo 2 “50” is most like “Champion”, but a Halo 3 “50” is more like Onyx — except there seems to be a bug or something that makes Onyx easy for Swat and FFA, but more normal for "Team Arena"
>
> tl;dr:
> Halo 5 “Champion” is a Halo 2 50
> Halo 5 “Onyx” is a Halo 3 50 for Team Arena
> Halo 5 “High level Onyx player – 1900” is probably a 50 for FFA and SWAT.

SWAT isn’t easy, it’s simply quick. Games at a champion level last 3-4 minutes, 5 if people decide to camp. FFA on the other hand is pretty easy to get a decent Onyx rating, you can get from 1500 to 1900 getting 6th place every time. After that it seems to start requiring you to get higher placing, which is more difficult than say being on the winning half of a team. This comes from the fact that you need to beat players who are around your CSR or higher. That’s what I think at least.