After devolving a bit into Halo lore, I began to realize I hated the UNSC and even Master Chief himself.
Halsey is depicted in Reach as a cold, heartless woman, mastermind behind the Spartan program, responsible for abducting countless children (including her own son) for government experimentation. The original purpose of this super soldier program was to squash an economic insurrection in the outer colonies - an insurrection that honestly seems justified when you objectively consider the politics of the situation. In the brief interactions Noble Team has with civilians, they seem terrified of the Spartans.
Before the Covenant came onto the scene, John 117 was simply the most effective dissident killer.
Yet we are meant to think these are the good guys?
The political situation on Earth is even worse; humanity is basically lorded over by a globalist junta government.
I don’t want to inflame anyone’s sensibilities - this is simply a quick rumination on the darker side of the lore, as I understand it.
Perhaps I’m mistaken, Id love to hear why.
But for me I’m rooting for the Gravemind.
UEG aren’t exactly saints, but I would call them (or the UNSC) baddies, per se. While it doesn’t recongize any independence movements, the UEG still allows plenty of liberties for its citizens that simply don’t exist in full-on despotic factions in fiction such as the 40K Imperium or the SW Galactic Empire. Also, most Insurrectionist movements in the Halo universe consist mostly of opportunists that want power rather than improving the lives of other people. Are the UEG/UNSC good guys in the traditional sense of the word? Most certainly not, especially given the insanely shady stuff ONI is constantly up to. Are they good guys in the sense that there is no better option available? Absolutely.
As for Halsey, she can seem cold and distant and she did abduct a bunch of children, some of whom ended up as cripples or worse. However she does care for her Spartans and in the grand scheme of things, her actions were what saved humanity. You might be confusing her with someone else though, since she does not have son (only a daughter, Miranda Keyes). A heartless woman certainly wouldn’t weep herself to sleep over her dead daughter.
I can see what you are saying and it does make a little sense. But in the end i wouldnt think the UNSC as the bad guys by anymeans. Look how people are in this day in age they are alot worse tbh… LOL
I always saw the issue of UNSC vs Insurrectionist wasn’t so much about who was right and who was wrong, but more so just about how the series disparages human on human conflict in general. Like, I don’t think you’ll find many instances where one UNSC dude shooting an Insurrectionist is ever treated as this clear-cut heroic moment. Though I havent kept up with the most recent books. Like in Fall of Reach, Chief appears to regret harming non-combatants during their abduction of Colonel Watts, and in Contact Harvest Johnson wonders if the man he shot was knowingly transporting explosives, or was just in the wrong place at the wrong time.
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The only organisation I know of that kidnaps and mutilates children is the CIA, but you’re actually quite lucky just to be nicely mutilated and then have the beautiful freedom to even exist, since if you happen to be under 2 years they’ll just drown you in a bath or some other such execution method. Although having said that there’s multiple factions within the entire that actually bully and abuse each other in an oddly arranged structure that everyone’s some kind of Revenge of the Nerds hero for standing up to the opposing side - however the CIA eventually gained clear-sighted objective awareness via robots and AI that none of them were heroic, and the only knew how to abuse others, so the CIA requested self-destruction or decommisioning same as any vessel or body of people is entitled.
Alternatively to this, I was asked at the age of 5 by some Vietnam War criminals if I wanted to police persona like themselves to protect other children, and then told with absolute factuality nobody else would do the job - it was only us. Not entirely heroic though, since they fail to ever tell anyone the unwarranted abuse you get simply for being a watchdog or informant, or that you’ll never get paid or get a normal civilian job, so the people there still have to justify how or why they white-enslaved naive ill-informed infants on an incomplete basis - to further and fulfill their own beatnik ego fantasies. And then the final product, abandoned like a Marla Singer dress, they actually take no responsibility for after the ‘toy’ gets old and you’re simply an out of control intimidation unit, waiting to go wrong. But you’re an expert in war-crimes, as a large living example of one. Oh, and the generals involved are nearly always a gay couple like Reeves & Mortimor - the child soldiers are pseudo-ironically their adopted children and arguably an act of hatred or contempt towards humanity. But no, the troopers themselves aren’t bad as a product. Just don’t walk past past the clearly marked line on the floor. Ever. Empathy is zero when the planet explodes in bombs, like today, tomorrow. Anyway I’m zapped to zero energy now from odd termite behaviour.
I think one of the things the extended universe does well is showing that just about every group or organisation within the Halo universe has its virtuous and its evil aspects. The UEG is fair and pretty good in many ways, but oppressive and heavy handed in others. Some rebels are power hungry and merciless, others just want independence and the right to decide their own fate. Some in the Covenant are zealous, others question the war from the start. Some feel guilt for their involvement in various activities, others always believe the ends justify the means.
Not when directly compared to the covenant. Enslaving entire species, genocide, and extreme environmental destruction all built on false pretenses. The flood have no intention to coexist and are not above doing anything to complete their goals of homologization. Humanity is the good guys. The UNSC is just the tool humanity uses.
> 2745721379986954;1:
> After devolving a bit into Halo lore, I began to realize I hated the UNSC and even Master Chief himself.
>
> Halsey is depicted in Reach as a cold, heartless woman, mastermind behind the Spartan program, responsible for abducting countless children forcing (including her own son) for government experimentation. The purpose of this super soldier program was to squash an economic insurrection in the outer colonies, which honestly seems justified when you objectively consider the politics of the situation. In the brief interactions Noble Team has with civilians, they seem terrified of the Spartans.
> Before the Covenant came onto the scene, John 117 was simply the most effective dissident killer.
>
> Yet we are meant to think these are the good guys?
>
> The political situation on Earth is even worse; humanity is basically lorded over by a globalist junta government.
>
> I don’t want to inflame anyone’s sensibilities - this is simply a quick rumination on the darker side of the lore, as I understand it.
> Perhaps I’m mistaken, Id love to hear why.
> But for me I’m rooting for the Gravemind.
In general intelligence agencies are morally grey at best, doing terrible things for what they believe is “the greater good”.
However, I disagree with your read on some of the details of the lore.
Obviously civilians would be spooked if humanity’s best soldiers showed up at their homes in full tactical gear. Look at the movie Forward Unto Dawn for an example of this. The students are seriously spooked when the ODST’s drop in, because seeing them means there’s a significant danger in the vicinity.
It’s also possible those civilians may have ties to the Insurrectionists, in which case their nervousness would reflect their fear of having been found out by the government they’re trying to overthrow. Keep in mind, the Innies’ main tactic for trying to throw off the Earth-government’s rule was terrorism, mass murder of civilians. They were objectively NOT the good guys, and Halsey created the Spartans, because the statistical analysis of the best A.I. all agreed that it was the best option to save the most lives, by cutting the head off of the snake, killing the Insurrection by killing the instigators.
> 2745721379986954;1:
> After devolving a bit into Halo lore, I began to realize I hated the UNSC and even Master Chief himself.
>
> Halsey is depicted in Reach as a cold, heartless woman, mastermind behind the Spartan program, responsible for abducting countless children forcing (including her own son) for government experimentation. The purpose of this super soldier program was to squash an economic insurrection in the outer colonies, which honestly seems justified when you objectively consider the politics of the situation. In the brief interactions Noble Team has with civilians, they seem terrified of the Spartans.
> Before the Covenant came onto the scene, John 117 was simply the most effective dissident killer.
>
> Yet we are meant to think these are the good guys?
>
> The political situation on Earth is even worse; humanity is basically lorded over by a globalist junta government.
>
> I don’t want to inflame anyone’s sensibilities - this is simply a quick rumination on the darker side of the lore, as I understand it.
> Perhaps I’m mistaken, Id love to hear why.
> But for me I’m rooting for the Gravemind.
They’re prioritizing survival which seems pretty normal.
> 2535470384295825;9:
> > 2745721379986954;1:
> > After devolving a bit into Halo lore, I began to realize I hated the UNSC and even Master Chief himself.
> >
> > Halsey is depicted in Reach as a cold, heartless woman, mastermind behind the Spartan program, responsible for abducting countless children forcing (including her own son) for government experimentation. The purpose of this super soldier program was to squash an economic insurrection in the outer colonies, which honestly seems justified when you objectively consider the politics of the situation. In the brief interactions Noble Team has with civilians, they seem terrified of the Spartans.
> > Before the Covenant came onto the scene, John 117 was simply the most effective dissident killer.
> >
> > Yet we are meant to think these are the good guys?
> >
> > The political situation on Earth is even worse; humanity is basically lorded over by a globalist junta government.
> >
> > I don’t want to inflame anyone’s sensibilities - this is simply a quick rumination on the darker side of the lore, as I understand it.
> > Perhaps I’m mistaken, Id love to hear why.
> > But for me I’m rooting for the Gravemind.
>
> They’re prioritizing survival which seems normal.
In a universe full of genocidal aliens, parasitic horrors, and galaxy killing hula hoops, the UNSC certainly doesn’t seem to be the bad guys.
> 2535412924945145;7:
> Not when directly compared to the covenant. Enslaving entire species, genocide, and extreme environmental destruction all built on false pretenses. The flood have no intention to coexist and are not above doing anything to complete their goals of homologization. Humanity is the good guys. The UNSC is just the tool humanity uses.
Like I said, the Covenant are equally bad imo.
The thing the UNSC and the Covenant have in common is the belief that their goals are infallible, must be achieved at any cost, and anyone that stands in the way of their agenda must be eliminated.
They trade off the liberties and human dignity of the citizenry for efficiency. This is the same conceit that corrupt highly centralized institutions irl.
The political science aspect of this is undeniable. I was just pointing out how all the ‘heroes’ in Halo are oppressive warmongers, and the image we see of them in the action-oriented Halo outings lack a lot of nuance.
If we could see UNSC propaganda, it would look like the Halo games.
> 2533274908293592;13:
> YES
Jokes apart, Who isn’t?
In all wars there are good and bad people in both sides.
> 2745721379986954;12:
> > 2535412924945145;7:
> > Not when directly compared to the covenant. Enslaving entire species, genocide, and extreme environmental destruction all built on false pretenses. The flood have no intention to coexist and are not above doing anything to complete their goals of homologization. Humanity is the good guys. The UNSC is just the tool humanity uses.
>
> Like I said, the Covenant are equally bad imo.
>
> The thing the UNSC and the Covenant have in common is the belief that their goals are infallible, must be achieved at any cost, and anyone that stands in the way of their agenda must be eliminated.
> They trade off the liberties and human dignity of the citizenry for efficiency. This is the same conceit that corrupt highly centralized institutions irl.
>
> The political science aspect of this is undeniable. I was just pointing out how all the ‘heroes’ in Halo are oppressive warmongers, and the image we see of them in the action-oriented Halo outings lack a lot of nuance.
>
> If we could see UNSC propaganda, it would look like the Halo games.
Their goals are different though even if one can draw parallels to how the culture operates within the two entities. The UNSC goal is stabilization and capitalistic expansion while the goal of the covenant is the great journey. I agree with what you say except equally as bad. Especially when one considers lore after the human covenant war. (to be fair I haven’t read any novels that take place after just comics and games) ONI is a different entity in my opinion
ONI has definitely done many extremely unethical things (the Spartan program is an obvious example, imprisoning that journalists, etc), and the UNSC oppresses populations of people on entirely different planets that want to govern themselves.
I hate the UNSC too
imagine the pain of having your child getting taken from you so that child can be a super soldier
as a matter of fact there is a story about how the parent of a spartan 2 became an innie cause he suspected the UNSC kidnapped his child
> 2533274870884222;2:
> As for Halsey, she can seem cold and distant and she did abduct a bunch of children, some of whom ended up as cripples or worse. However she does care for her Spartans and in the grand scheme of things, r.
Even for those who were crippled Halsey tried to save them whether it was via eventually making them full Spartans or keeping them on ice till a time where they could be revived. Is Halsey moral certainly not. Hell irrc she cared more for the Spartans than she did Miranda.
> 2535472432910781;17:
> I hate the UNSC too
> imagine the pain of having your child getting taken from you so that child can be a super soldier
> as a matter of fact there is a story about how the parent of a spartan 2 became an innie cause he suspected the UNSC kidnapped his child
I think that parent is the outlier since all the kidnapped kids were replaced with flash clones. Though whether that was to ease Halsey’s conscience or to keep the secrecy of the project is debatable.
Even the innies aren’t good people as some cells worked with the Covenant or nuked civilian n targets in their bid to gain independence. But I think that’s the point there is not good guys in Halo it’s all shades of grey.
so from what I have gathered so far
USNC: Bad, but has good
Covenant: Bad, but has good
Rebels: Bad, but has good
Flood: nom