Are we going to sit in silence or ask the big Q.

Anyone else wish palmer died in that pelican crash in Halo 5: guardians?

Bigger question: Why do people have such a big bug up their butt over Palmer, especially after 6 years after Halo 4 came out?

> 2533274812652989;2:
> Bigger question: Why do people have such a big bug up their butt over Palmer, especially after 6 years after Halo 4 came out?

I met some who hate her just because she is the annoucer in warzone. But tbh palmer wouldn’t be as bad if 343i kinda knew how to write her.

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Yes.

I’m fine with her going away. She’s kinda an annoyance to me in the series.

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> > 2533274812652989;2:
> > Bigger question: Why do people have such a big bug up their butt over Palmer, especially after 6 years after Halo 4 came out?
>
> I met some who hate her just because she is the annoucer in warzone. But tbh palmer wouldn’t be as bad if 343i kinda knew how to write her.

Seems like they’ve written her fine. She’s meant to be abrasive when we first meet her yet as time has gone on her roughness has been eaten away through a series of personal failures on her end. Sure, we don’t see much of her in Halo 5, but given she’s not trying to tear Halsey’s throat out I’d say she’s changed. I can understand being put off by a character being rough around the edges, but that doesn’t necessarily make them badly written. Halo would be a heck of a lot less interesting if characters were perfect and inoffensive.

> 2533274812652989;6:
> > 2533274936074323;3:
> > > 2533274812652989;2:
> > > Bigger question: Why do people have such a big bug up their butt over Palmer, especially after 6 years after Halo 4 came out?
> >
> > I met some who hate her just because she is the annoucer in warzone. But tbh palmer wouldn’t be as bad if 343i kinda knew how to write her.
>
> Seems like they’ve written her fine. She’s meant to be abrasive when we first meet her yet as time has gone on her roughness has been eaten away through a series of personal failures on her end. Sure, we don’t see much of her in Halo 5, but given she’s not trying to tear Halsey’s throat out I’d say she’s changed. I can understand being put off by a character being rough around the edges, but that doesn’t necessarily make them badly written. Halo would be a heck of a lot less interesting if characters were perfect and inoffensive.

Firstly, I’m not a Palmer-hater. I’m fine with her, but I think the problem there is that it was never explained on-screen why Palmer had such a distaste for Halsey. The script could have made her motivations a little more understandable and direct to the audience.

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> > > 2533274936074323;3:
> > > > 2533274812652989;2:
> > > > Bigger question: Why do people have such a big bug up their butt over Palmer, especially after 6 years after Halo 4 came out?
> > >
> > > I met some who hate her just because she is the annoucer in warzone. But tbh palmer wouldn’t be as bad if 343i kinda knew how to write her.
> >
> > Seems like they’ve written her fine. She’s meant to be abrasive when we first meet her yet as time has gone on her roughness has been eaten away through a series of personal failures on her end. Sure, we don’t see much of her in Halo 5, but given she’s not trying to tear Halsey’s throat out I’d say she’s changed. I can understand being put off by a character being rough around the edges, but that doesn’t necessarily make them badly written. Halo would be a heck of a lot less interesting if characters were perfect and inoffensive.
>
> Firstly, I’m not a Palmer-hater. I’m fine with her, but I think the problem there is that it was never explained on-screen why Palmer had such a distaste for Halsey. The script could have made her motivations a little more understandable and direct to the audience.

I agree, Palmers motivation for her very personal vendetta against Halsey isn’t given to us, and it should have been.
I also believe much of the loathing for Palmer comes from her inconsistent writing, largely in the comics. She shows signs of character growth, then the next writer comes in and completely undoes it. This is one of those things that gets more irritating with each repeat.

That said, I believe Halo 5’s depiction of Palmer was fine. If she can avoid any more lapses she has potential to be a solid character.

I don’t think Palmer’s problems with Halsey were really all that obscure. Throughout Spartan Ops we see she has a disdain for scientists (though where that comes from is a fair criticism, however Halo: Initiation shows that stems from a sort of, I suppose, inferiority complex? Been a while since I read it but it boils down to not seeing why anybody should be respected just because of how many degrees they have, especially if it makes them prone to talk down to folks). Couple that with Halsey’s reputation as established by DeMarco and Madsen’s chatter and how much of a pain in the butt Halsey is and I’d say Palmer has a fairly solid reason to not view Halsey in a good light.

At least, that’s how I read it.

> 2533274812652989;9:
> I don’t think Palmer’s problems with Halsey were really all that obscure. Throughout Spartan Ops we see she has a disdain for scientists (though where that comes from is a fair criticism, however Halo: Initiation shows that stems from a sort of, I suppose, inferiority complex? Been a while since I read it but it boils down to not seeing why anybody should be respected just because of how many degrees they have, especially if it makes them prone to talk down to folks). Couple that with Halsey’s reputation as established by DeMarco and Madsen’s chatter and how much of a pain in the butt Halsey is and I’d say Palmer has a fairly solid reason to not view Halsey in a good light.
>
> At least, that’s how I read it.

I like to think that the anti-Halsey narrative that the UNSC and largely ONI put out was very effective on Palmer. She looks at Halsey as a criminal, a mad scientist; everything ONI wants people to think about her. And I think her disdain for Halsey bleeds out into a general distrust for scientists. I think your assessment in terms of what she values and respects in a person is a good one; she respects fighters, “doers”, as opposed to thinkers. Palmer seems like a person quick to distrust what she doesn’t understand; which, if true, isn’t inherently a bad characterization. If anything, it’s very human. Not every character can be cool-as-a-cucumber. It’s unrealistic to think that the Halo-verse is populated only with 100% likable humans. That being said, I don’t find Palmer all that unlikable. Where a character like Del Rio was obviously introduced as more antagonistic than anything, Palmer doesn’t give off that feeling to me.

> 2533274833638123;1:
> Anyone else wish palmer died in that pelican crash in Halo 5: guardians?

How’s that a big question? Maybe a bigger one is why do people who hate Palmer want everyone else to hate her too?

And no. I like Palmer, and I think she’s written just fine. She’s not a super likable character, she doesn’t make friends with everyone she meets. She’s arrogant, and totally buys into whatever propaganda ONI and the UNSC is selling. She’s actually a bit of a tool. But why is that any reason to dislike her? I If she was a real person, ok, maybe I can see why people would feel that way (at the very least she wouldn’t be fun to hang out with). But she’s a fictional character, so all of her traits and her actions help make her a more interesting character. Even better, she’s slowly becoming more aware of her actions and what is going on around her, so she’s actually becoming a more sensible person as the series progresses. Maybe she’ll become a hero. She’s sort of trending in that direction.

But no, I don’t wish Palmer died in Halo 5. And personally, I think she’s one of the more complex side-characters in the Halo games and I’m glad 343i added her to the series.
( --_–)/

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> > > > 2533274936074323;3:
> > > > > 2533274812652989;2:
> > > > > Bigger question: Why do people have such a big bug up their butt over Palmer, especially after 6 years after Halo 4 came out?
> > > >
> > > > I met some who hate her just because she is the annoucer in warzone. But tbh palmer wouldn’t be as bad if 343i kinda knew how to write her.
> > >
> > > Seems like they’ve written her fine. She’s meant to be abrasive when we first meet her yet as time has gone on her roughness has been eaten away through a series of personal failures on her end. Sure, we don’t see much of her in Halo 5, but given she’s not trying to tear Halsey’s throat out I’d say she’s changed. I can understand being put off by a character being rough around the edges, but that doesn’t necessarily make them badly written. Halo would be a heck of a lot less interesting if characters were perfect and inoffensive.
> >
> > Firstly, I’m not a Palmer-hater. I’m fine with her, but I think the problem there is that it was never explained on-screen why Palmer had such a distaste for Halsey. The script could have made her motivations a little more understandable and direct to the audience.
>
> I agree, Palmers motivation for her very personal vendetta against Halsey isn’t given to us, and it should have been.
> I also believe much of the loathing for Palmer comes from her inconsistent writing, largely in the comics. She shows signs of character growth, then the next writer comes in and completely undoes it. This is one of those things that gets more irritating with each repeat.
>
> That said, I believe Halo 5’s depiction of Palmer was fine. If she can avoid any more lapses she has potential to be a solid character.

From what I’ve seen among the community, and from my own personal feelings, her dislike stemmed from Halo 4, primarily.

Having not ventured into the Escalation comics yet (mostly for my disinterest in that plot point), I am unaware of the inconsistent writing, though this isn’t surprising as it tends to be a common occurrence with these kinds of comics in general. But I am sure on average most Halo fans that dislike her probably are also unfamiliar with those comics.

In Halo 4 however, her disrespectful remarks to Chief upon first encountering him in the campaign, and her disrespectful comments towards the scientists in Spartan OPs, plus overuse of the egghead insult, I think is what soured many people’s opinions of her (and probably her obsessive anger towards Halsey). And while I was one of those people who disliked that about her in Halo 4, I feel that 343 tried to fix those issues in Halo 5 and I find her to be a more likeable character now and even enjoyed using her in Warzone until the Grunt came along (I’m also a Mass Effect fan so the FemShep connection was there for me in that regard).

I personally am just put off by unnecessary disrespect in a professional setting (especially when it’s unwarranted), or an extreme amount of goofing off or overall immaturity, “try hard” behavior, which I felt was a common occurrence in Halo 4, specifically from the majority of Fireteam Majestic and even Roland. It felt like it was trying to appeal to dude bro culture to me.

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> > > > > 2533274936074323;3:
> > > > > > 2533274812652989;2:
> > > > > > Bigger question: Why do people have such a big bug up their butt over Palmer, especially after 6 years after Halo 4 came out?
> > > > >
> > > > > I met some who hate her just because she is the annoucer in warzone. But tbh palmer wouldn’t be as bad if 343i kinda knew how to write her.
> > > >
> > > > Seems like they’ve written her fine. She’s meant to be abrasive when we first meet her yet as time has gone on her roughness has been eaten away through a series of personal failures on her end. Sure, we don’t see much of her in Halo 5, but given she’s not trying to tear Halsey’s throat out I’d say she’s changed. I can understand being put off by a character being rough around the edges, but that doesn’t necessarily make them badly written. Halo would be a heck of a lot less interesting if characters were perfect and inoffensive.
> > >
> > > Firstly, I’m not a Palmer-hater. I’m fine with her, but I think the problem there is that it was never explained on-screen why Palmer had such a distaste for Halsey. The script could have made her motivations a little more understandable and direct to the audience.
> >
> > I agree, Palmers motivation for her very personal vendetta against Halsey isn’t given to us, and it should have been.
> > I also believe much of the loathing for Palmer comes from her inconsistent writing, largely in the comics. She shows signs of character growth, then the next writer comes in and completely undoes it. This is one of those things that gets more irritating with each repeat.
> >
> > That said, I believe Halo 5’s depiction of Palmer was fine. If she can avoid any more lapses she has potential to be a solid character.
>
> From what I’ve seen among the community, and from my own personal feelings, her dislike stemmed from Halo 4, primarily.
>
> Having not ventured into the Escalation comics yet (mostly for my disinterest in that plot point), I am unaware of the inconsistent writing, though this isn’t surprising as it tends to be a common occurrence with these kinds of comics in general. But I am sure on average most Halo fans that dislike her probably are also unfamiliar with those comics.
>
> In Halo 4 however, her disrespectful remarks to Chief upon first encountering him in the campaign, and her disrespectful comments towards the scientists in Spartan OPs, plus overuse of the egghead insult, I think is what soured many people’s opinions of her (and probably her obsessive anger towards Halsey). And while I was one of those people who disliked that about her in Halo 4, I feel that 343 tried to fix those issues in Halo 5 and I find her to be a more likeable character now and even enjoyed using her in Warzone until the Grunt came along (I’m also a Mass Effect fan so the FemShep connection was there for me in that regard).
>
> I personally am just put off by unnecessary disrespect in a professional setting (especially when it’s unwarranted), or an extreme amount of goofing off or overall immaturity, “try hard” behavior, which I felt was a common occurrence in Halo 4, specifically from the majority of Fireteam Majestic and even Roland. It felt like it was trying to appeal to dude bro culture to me.

Valid points. She rubbed me the wrong way from her first line to the Chief, “I thought you’d be taller”. She comes across to me like a sports star who doesn’t respect the achievements of other people unless she sees them first hand, which isn’t a trait I’d want to see in a commanding officer.

I still think some comic writers trying to fix her and others writing her back to square one exasperated the issue.

> 2533274833638123;1:
> Anyone else wish palmer died in that pelican crash in Halo 5: guardians?

Fun fact, she actually didn’t die in that crash, in the last scene where Halsy met Master Chief for the first time in years, she was standing like adjacent to them.

> 2533274817408735;10:
> > 2533274812652989;9:
> > I don’t think Palmer’s problems with Halsey were really all that obscure. Throughout Spartan Ops we see she has a disdain for scientists (though where that comes from is a fair criticism, however Halo: Initiation shows that stems from a sort of, I suppose, inferiority complex? Been a while since I read it but it boils down to not seeing why anybody should be respected just because of how many degrees they have, especially if it makes them prone to talk down to folks). Couple that with Halsey’s reputation as established by DeMarco and Madsen’s chatter and how much of a pain in the butt Halsey is and I’d say Palmer has a fairly solid reason to not view Halsey in a good light.
> >
> > At least, that’s how I read it.
>
> I like to think that the anti-Halsey narrative that the UNSC and largely ONI put out was very effective on Palmer. She looks at Halsey as a criminal, a mad scientist; everything ONI wants people to think about her. And I think her disdain for Halsey bleeds out into a general distrust for scientists. I think your assessment in terms of what she values and respects in a person is a good one; she respects fighters, “doers”, as opposed to thinkers. Palmer seems like a person quick to distrust what she doesn’t understand; which, if true, isn’t inherently a bad characterization. If anything, it’s very human. Not every character can be cool-as-a-cucumber. It’s unrealistic to think that the Halo-verse is populated only with 100% likable humans. That being said, I don’t find Palmer all that unlikable. Where a character like Del Rio was obviously introduced as more antagonistic than anything, Palmer doesn’t give off that feeling to me.

That was really well said, and basically sums up my argument for the whole “Palmer haters” thing. Palmer is a soldier, and soldiers obey their orders (more or less). She tried to kill Halsy because she was ordered to by the Empress of ONI herself Osman, s obviously she couldn’t refuse. Sure there may have been a little personal friction involved, but she didn’t do anything without permission.

> 2533274833638123;1:
> Anyone else wish palmer died in that pelican crash in Halo 5: guardians?

Yes, yes I do. They went so far to erase different plot points and characters, why not her? Jul and the Didact, actually compelling characters get no souled yet that train-wreck of a character gets to have screen time? Poor decision.

They should kill off all the Humans (bar Del Rio, Crimson) introduced in H4.

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> > > > > 2533274936074323;3:
> > > > > > 2533274812652989;2:
> > > > > > Bigger question: Why do people have such a big bug up their butt over Palmer, especially after 6 years after Halo 4 came out?
> > > > >
> > > > > I met some who hate her just because she is the annoucer in warzone. But tbh palmer wouldn’t be as bad if 343i kinda knew how to write her.
> > > >
> > > > Seems like they’ve written her fine. She’s meant to be abrasive when we first meet her yet as time has gone on her roughness has been eaten away through a series of personal failures on her end. Sure, we don’t see much of her in Halo 5, but given she’s not trying to tear Halsey’s throat out I’d say she’s changed. I can understand being put off by a character being rough around the edges, but that doesn’t necessarily make them badly written. Halo would be a heck of a lot less interesting if characters were perfect and inoffensive.
> >
> > In Halo 4 however, her disrespectful remarks to Chief upon first encountering him in the campaign…

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> > > > > 2533274812652989;6:
> > > > > > 2533274936074323;3:
> > > > > > > 2533274812652989;2:
> > > > > > > Bigger question: Why do people have such a big bug up their butt over Palmer, especially after 6 years after Halo 4 came out?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I met some who hate her just because she is the annoucer in warzone. But tbh palmer wouldn’t be as bad if 343i kinda knew how to write her.
> > > > >
> > > > > Seems like they’ve written her fine. She’s meant to be abrasive when we first meet her yet as time has gone on her roughness has been eaten away through a series of personal failures on her end. Sure, we don’t see much of her in Halo 5, but given she’s not trying to tear Halsey’s throat out I’d say she’s changed. I can understand being put off by a character being rough around the edges, but that doesn’t necessarily make them badly written. Halo would be a heck of a lot less interesting if characters were perfect and inoffensive.
> > > >
> > > > Firstly, I’m not a Palmer-hater. I’m fine with her, but I think the problem there is that it was never explained on-screen why Palmer had such a distaste for Halsey. The script could have made her motivations a little more understandable and direct to the audience.
>
> Valid points. She rubbed me the wrong way from her first line to the Chief, “I thought you’d be taller”.

People seem to always take that comment out of context or twist it into something else. There is no malice in Palmer’s line. I mean, she even smirks as she says it. There is no hint of any jealousy, animosity or disdain for him whatsoever.
The line is a reference to what Marines say in Halo: CE,

“He’s taller than I expected…”

It’s a playful remark about how legends are described as these towering indomitable giants.

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> > > > > > 2533274936074323;3:
> > > > > > > 2533274812652989;2:
> > > > > > > Bigger question: Why do people have such a big bug up their butt over Palmer, especially after 6 years after Halo 4 came out?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I met some who hate her just because she is the annoucer in warzone. But tbh palmer wouldn’t be as bad if 343i kinda knew how to write her.
> > > > >
> > > > > Seems like they’ve written her fine. She’s meant to be abrasive when we first meet her yet as time has gone on her roughness has been eaten away through a series of personal failures on her end. Sure, we don’t see much of her in Halo 5, but given she’s not trying to tear Halsey’s throat out I’d say she’s changed. I can understand being put off by a character being rough around the edges, but that doesn’t necessarily make them badly written. Halo would be a heck of a lot less interesting if characters were perfect and inoffensive.
> > >
> > > In Halo 4 however, her disrespectful remarks to Chief upon first encountering him in the campaign…
>
>
>
> > 2533274883501878;13:
> > > 2578176750983053;12:
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> > > > > > > 2533274936074323;3:
> > > > > > > > 2533274812652989;2:
> > > > > > > > Bigger question: Why do people have such a big bug up their butt over Palmer, especially after 6 years after Halo 4 came out?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I met some who hate her just because she is the annoucer in warzone. But tbh palmer wouldn’t be as bad if 343i kinda knew how to write her.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Seems like they’ve written her fine. She’s meant to be abrasive when we first meet her yet as time has gone on her roughness has been eaten away through a series of personal failures on her end. Sure, we don’t see much of her in Halo 5, but given she’s not trying to tear Halsey’s throat out I’d say she’s changed. I can understand being put off by a character being rough around the edges, but that doesn’t necessarily make them badly written. Halo would be a heck of a lot less interesting if characters were perfect and inoffensive.
> > > > >
> > > > > Firstly, I’m not a Palmer-hater. I’m fine with her, but I think the problem there is that it was never explained on-screen why Palmer had such a distaste for Halsey. The script could have made her motivations a little more understandable and direct to the audience.
> >
> > Valid points. She rubbed me the wrong way from her first line to the Chief, “I thought you’d be taller”.
>
> People seem to always take that comment out of context or twist it into something else. There is no malice in Palmer’s line. I mean, she even smirks as she says it. There is no hint of any jealousy, animosity or disdain for him whatsoever.
> The line is a reference to what Marines say in Halo: CE,
>
> “He’s taller than I expected…”
>
> It’s a playful remark about how legends are described as these towering indomitable giants.

There doesn’t have to be jealousy, animosity, or disdain towards Chief, quite the opposite. A line like “He’s taller than I expected.” Implies he’s more impressive than you thought he’d be. A line like “I thought you’d be taller.” has the connotations that he’s not as impressive as all the stories suggest - he’s not a towering indomitable giant, which has the implications of shrugging off his past accomplishments.

For a lot of people, a complete stranger tossing a sarcastic/playful remark towards you upon first meeting you can be seen as disrespectful and rude, even if that wasn’t the intent (though I’d like to believe that being in the high ranking position that Palmer is, she’d be very well aware of that possibility and intentionally avoid coming off that way, yet chose to respond in that way regardless). Most people respond to Chief in a professional manner to show their respect; her joking, sarcastic/playful remark can be seen as her putting herself on the same level as Chief (being a Spartan/peer), which again, in itself discredits his own accomplishments.

Whether that was her intention or not is unclear, as a smirk usually accompanies a smart remark, playful or otherwise. It’s not the smirk that questions the intent for me however, it’s the delivery of the line and the fact she thought it was appropriate at all. Palmer in H4 usually came off cocky or condescending in some manner in most of her scenes, warranted or not, so it’s easy for people to be turned off by that, dislike her for it, or question her intent.

Palmer is acting a bit too arrogant for my taste,same as all other Spartan IV-s.But i like her Character because of one thing, and that is that she is disgusted by the fact that Spartan II-s were abducted as children and were forced to become Super Soldiers.I can’t believe no one else mentioned this before in the games and that most people are ok with it.And also i saw that in Halo 4 Spartan Ops cutscene,so i think a lot of people have not seen this side of Palmer.For me that also explains why she doesn’t like Scientists,for all the experiments they have done to children that later became Spartans and many of them have died because of this experiments.

> 2533274951753761;19:
> Palmer is acting a bit too arrogant for my taste,same as all other Spartan IV-s.But i like her Character because of one thing, and that is that she is disgusted by the fact that Spartan II-s were abducted as children and were forced to become Super Soldiers.I can’t believe no one else mentioned this before in the games and that most people are ok with it.And also i saw that in Halo 4 Spartan Ops cutscene,so i think a lot of people have not seen this side of Palmer.For me that also explains why she doesn’t like Scientists,for all the experiments they have done to children that later became Spartans and many of them have died because of this experiments.

The fact that the S2s are abducted children us not eidley known to humanity.