Are we fine with clamber?

I think that clamber has taken out a lot of the skill involved with skill jumps. We all remember jumps like the OS jump from top snipe on damnation and all the trick jumps wher you need two people on lockout. What happened to those? Shouldn’t we require a large skillgap for jumping? The very basic jumps in halo CE took skill because of the delay. Clamber only makes the game easy.

yeah clamber is fine to me as long as they don’t keep up with sprint, slide and thrust.

> 2533274943854776;1:
> I think that clamber has taken out a lot of the skill involved with skill jumps. We all remember jumps like the OS jump from top snipe on damnation and all the trick jumps wher you need two people on lockout. What happened to those? Shouldn’t we require a large skillgap for jumping? The very basic jumps in halo CE took skill because of the delay. Clamber only makes the game easy.

There is a zoom-crouch jump. If you spam crouch while zoomed in and in the air you go upwards a little bit. So you can clamber to places you couldn’t before.

some places still require crouch jump with the clamber. It just makes things taller. Skill jumps are still necessary.

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> > 2533274943854776;1:
> > I think that clamber has taken out a lot of the skill involved with skill jumps. We all remember jumps like the OS jump from top snipe on damnation and all the trick jumps wher you need two people on lockout. What happened to those? Shouldn’t we require a large skillgap for jumping? The very basic jumps in halo CE took skill because of the delay. Clamber only makes the game easy.
>
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> There is a zoom-crouch jump. If you spam crouch while zoomed in and in the air you go upwards a little bit. So you can clamber to places you couldn’t before.

Exactly, there are still skill jumps, they just now include clamber. I think it works great for the gameplay in Halo 5. The maps were designed around the new Spartan Abilities.

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> some places still require crouch jump with the clamber. It just makes things taller. Skill jumps are still necessary.

Crouch jumps don’t take a lot of skill. At least now that there is no jump delay and or fast fall.

I don’t get this whole “skill jump thing”. It’s not even hard to make any of the so called skill jumps or crouch jumps from the older games. Literally, the hardest thing I remember was being able to toss a frag and jump over it just as it blew up which would give you a slight height boost…and the only map I remember being able to do that on, where you could actually get anywhere by doing it, was the Warlock remake for H2. Even as hard as this was after practicing 5-10 min in a custom game I/we had it down. The rest of the coveted jumps were able to be mastered only after a few attempts…nothing really to write home about. In the end I think it’s just another thing for people to complain about.

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> > 2533274914889722;3:
> > > 2533274943854776;1:
> > > I think that clamber has taken out a lot of the skill involved with skill jumps. We all remember jumps like the OS jump from top snipe on damnation and all the trick jumps wher you need two people on lockout. What happened to those? Shouldn’t we require a large skillgap for jumping? The very basic jumps in halo CE took skill because of the delay. Clamber only makes the game easy.
> >
> >
> > There is a zoom-crouch jump. If you spam crouch while zoomed in and in the air you go upwards a little bit. So you can clamber to places you couldn’t before.
>
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> Exactly, there are still skill jumps, they just now include clamber. I think it works great for the gameplay in Halo 5. The maps were designed around the new Spartan Abilities.

The stabilizer jumps don’t take a lot of skill. At least now that there is no jump delay or fast fall.

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> I don’t get this whole “skill jump thing”. It’s not even hard to make any of the so called skill jumps or crouch jumps from the older games. Literally, the hardest thing I remember was being able to toss a frag and jump over it just as it blew up which would give you a slight height boost…and the only map I remember being able to do that on, where you could actually get anywhere by doing it, was the Warlock remake for H2. Even as hard as this was after practicing 5-10 min in a custom game I/we had it down. The rest of the coveted jumps were able to be mastered only after a few attempts…nothing really to write home about. In the end I think it’s just another thing for people to complain about.

Do I have to write every single skill jump from the old games? Remember that damnation jump I just wrote? There are two variations of it where you can get to top red or to s- room. It requires two rockets and one grenade all with perfect timeing and perfect placement. Remember the jump on Prisoner that allowed you to skip the blue stairs to get to top blue? Remember the window jump on chill out? Remember the rocket jump on hang em’ high or derelict? I do not have the time to go through every CE map. But you had to spend time with all the jumps on wizard, longest or battle creak and every jump that was so hard in that game. And I didn’t even touch halos 2, 3 and reach(kind of). Now on halo 5 there isn’t one jump that I should have practiced. Like the jump Frosty did a couole of weaks ago on pro leugue against EnV. I knew that and had performed it in game even before the pro leugue. The only jump I ever practiced was that one jump on fathom that gets you from slide to bridge and that was in game. And if you worry about compaining, remember that it’s feedback to improve the game.

i think that clamber does nothing but add interest to the game. there are still plenty of skill jumps and there are new places that are only accessible using clamber on the current maps. if you don’t think that is true, you have never seen Frosty play. the dude finds nerdy new spots and jumps all the time. its great.

wanting it gone is either purely nostalgia or just personal preference. all it does is raise the height and change the way that skill jumps are performed.

> 2535468547991460;10:
> i think that clamber does nothing but add interest to the game. there are still plenty of skill jumps and there are new places that are only accessible using clamber on the current maps. if you don’t think that is true, you have never seen Frosty play. the dude finds nerdy new spots and jumps all the time. its great.
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> wanting it gone is either purely nostalgia or just personal preference. all it does is raise the height and change the way that skill jumps are performed.

I never tried to argue that there aren’t any places you can’t get to without clamber. I was just saying that because of clamber it takes little to no skill to access these spots. What does clamber add to the game? Nothing. What does it take away from the game? a Large skillgap for jumping.

Clamber is fine. Most of the movements in the game should be accessible for everyone.

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> > 2535468547991460;10:
> > i think that clamber does nothing but add interest to the game. there are still plenty of skill jumps and there are new places that are only accessible using clamber on the current maps. if you don’t think that is true, you have never seen Frosty play. the dude finds nerdy new spots and jumps all the time. its great.
> >
> > wanting it gone is either purely nostalgia or just personal preference. all it does is raise the height and change the way that skill jumps are performed.
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> I never tried to argue that there aren’t any places you can’t get to without clamber. I was just saying that because of clamber it takes little to no skill to access these spots. What does clamber add to the game? Nothing. What does it take away from the game? a Large skillgap for jumping.

You’re factually wrong on clambor adding nothing to the game. It makes it easier to jump to certain spots, eliminates mistakes made by bad jumps, and appeals to the audience that like an easy to pick up game. I agree on the removal of clambor and armor abilities in general, but I disagree on saying they add nothing to the game. They do add, the issues are the new abilities and such worth the trade off of a lower skill gap? It’s hard to actually gauage by today’s standards because not many will take the time to master such things nor do they want it to punish them right from the get go. Classic halo was simple yet also complex, the newer halos seem more complex but are much more lenient/forgiving to the new player. The other issue is there are already other games that do what current halo does, hence why halo changing is argued to be unnecessary and actually more negative to the franchise.

So in short is the skill gap worth losing for a more forgiving mechanic? That’s the real question when it comes to these changes.

I think all the add-ons should stay personally; sprint, clamber, slide and boost. What I think would be helpfull and appease alot of people would be a playlist called “Halo Classic” in Arena (ranked or unranked I dunno). Where there is no sprint, clamber, slide or boost. That way we don’t have to take away all the add-ons alot of people like, while creating a playlist that will make alot of other people who want a more classic feel, to be much happier. Don’t see why that wouldn’t work, and it would allow us all to be happy

> 2533274818508074;14:
> I think all the add-ons should stay personally; sprint, clamber, slide and boost. What I think would be helpfull and appease alot of people would be a playlist called “Halo Classic” in Arena (ranked or unranked I dunno). Where there is no sprint, clamber, slide or boost. That way we don’t have to take away all the add-ons alot of people like, while creating a playlist that will make alot of other people who want a more classic feel, to be much happier. Don’t see why that wouldn’t work, and it would allow us all to be happy

Yeah, the “halo classic” playlist is beautiful idea. It would be super cool to have one. But because in Halo: CE for example: we had quick camos, double melees, grenade jumps, little aim assist and a lot of other things that made the game what it was it would not feel like CE and that is true for every halo game. I would still pay for this kind of playlist, but I doubt it would keep players in for longer than a month.

Crouch jumping is still relevant in Halo 5, even with clamber, so I’m fine with it.

How can you say that clamber adds nothing to the game? Half of the skill in Halo 5 is map movement. That map movement would be severely limited if there was no clamber.

I also disagree that all of the stable jumps are easy. The jumps where you have to sprint + boost + slide + jump + clamber that is for example required to get from bottom to top mid on Torque is extremely tough.

I also know people who have a hard time making the jump from Plaza to Plaza sneaky. I myself was one of them until i finally took the time to figure out what I was doing wrong.

Clamber, Sliding, Sprinting, Thrusters, and Stabilizing all add something to the game: Fluidity. You can chain these together to make some rather interesting maneuvers(My personal favorite is Spartan Charging+Thrusting to cover extra distance in-air). We’re more mobile than we’ve ever been, and I don’t see how that’s a bad thing.

Halo 5 feels better to play than any other Halo game before. I don’t feel like the standard FPS protagonist who has their guns glued to their hands and doesn’t understand how mantling works. The movement feels better, and how a game feels is an important part of the gameplay.

clamber should stay. I like the way it works. And it’s not annoying to use.
in past halos there were this moments where you couldn’t make a nice play just because you needed an extra inch.

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> > 2533274943854776;11:
> > > 2535468547991460;10:
> > > i think that clamber does nothing but add interest to the game. there are still plenty of skill jumps and there are new places that are only accessible using clamber on the current maps. if you don’t think that is true, you have never seen Frosty play. the dude finds nerdy new spots and jumps all the time. its great.
> > >
> > > wanting it gone is either purely nostalgia or just personal preference. all it does is raise the height and change the way that skill jumps are performed.
> >
> >
> > I never tried to argue that there aren’t any places you can’t get to without clamber. I was just saying that because of clamber it takes little to no skill to access these spots. What does clamber add to the game? Nothing. What does it take away from the game? a Large skillgap for jumping.
>
>
> You’re factually wrong on clambor adding nothing to the game. It makes it easier to jump to certain spots, eliminates mistakes made by bad jumps, and appeals to the audience that like an easy to pick up game. I agree on the removal of clambor and armor abilities in general, but I disagree on saying they add nothing to the game. They do add, the issues are the new abilities and such worth the trade off of a lower skill gap? It’s hard to actually gauage by today’s standards because not many will take the time to master such things nor do they want it to punish them right from the get go. Classic halo was simple yet also complex, the newer halos seem more complex but are much more lenient/forgiving to the new player. The other issue is there are already other games that do what current halo does, hence why halo changing is argued to be unnecessary and actually more negative to the franchise.
>
> So in short is the skill gap worth losing for a more forgiving mechanic? That’s the real question when it comes to these changes.

When I wrote: “it takes a large skillgap out of the game” I meant that it adds a low skillgap to the game. But thanks for the intelligent reply. I am kind of dissapointed in all the people that just wrote something like:" It makes the game feel better".
Now, why do people think that a low skillgap is a good thing? When it is hard to earn success, doing it becomes more rewarding. We must always remember that halo is a game thats only protection for the “new” player is the ranking system. Which is something that Tommy Kost has made a great video on.

Thank you for your time.