Are there any counter arguments to match based XP?

Games Halo Infinite
1

Like what seems to be the overwhelming majority, I’m not too thrilled about battle pass progression being tied to only challenges. I’m fine with them keeping it so long as there is at least a little progression from completing each match.

That being said, I have seen people claim it’s fine as is but the argument I’ve seen from them is “just play for fun”. Okay, that’s fine, but it doesn’t absolve the challenge based xp system of its flaws.

I’m not trying to be overly snarky or anything, I just genuinely want to understand what the argument against adding match based xp to the current challenge system is. Would it somehow make it worse that I’m not seeing? Is there any actual points to be made in its defense apart from “just deal with it”?

2

Probably the only argument would be the ability to encourage people to try new modes and diversify the ones they play.

3

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> Probably the only argument would be the ability to encourage people to try new modes and diversify the ones they play.

Yeah, but if match based xp was added on top of the challenge system as opposed to replacing it altogether that encouragement to try other modes would still be there.

4

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> > 2533274792737987;2:
> > Probably the only argument would be the ability to encourage people to try new modes and diversify the ones they play.
>
> Yeah, but if match based xp was added on top of the challenge system as opposed to replacing it altogether that encouragement to try other modes would still be there.

I fully agree. It’s quite common for developers to miss the obvious unfortunately. It happens when you are so focus and I hope this was the case.

5

My thing is, it only progresses the battle pass, which will reset each season. So like is there even any permanent progression to work towards, no sR or anything? Or do I have to do the same grind season over season.

6

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> My thing is, it only progresses the battle pass, which will reset each season. So like is there even any permanent progression to work towards, no sR or anything? Or do I have to do the same grind season over season.

The battlepass doesn’t reset each season in halo infinite. Battlepasses are permanent.

7

> 2533274866536985;6:
> > 2661949065475413;5:
> > My thing is, it only progresses the battle pass, which will reset each season. So like is there even any permanent progression to work towards, no sR or anything? Or do I have to do the same grind season over season.
>
> The battlepass doesn’t reset each season in halo infinite. Battlepasses are permanent.

While you can still complete existing/old passes, each season will introduce a new one to start over fresh.

8

> 2661949065475413;7:
> > 2533274866536985;6:
> > > 2661949065475413;5:
> > > My thing is, it only progresses the battle pass, which will reset each season. So like is there even any permanent progression to work towards, no sR or anything? Or do I have to do the same grind season over season.
> >
> > The battlepass doesn’t reset each season in halo infinite. Battlepasses are permanent.
>
> While you can still complete existing/old passes, each season will introduce a new one to start over fresh.

They will work much like MCC’s Pass. You get points per completed challenge to unlock something from a Battle Pass, be it a past battle pass or the actuall.
But I’m sure they will make sure that you have to pay money to get fast forward

9

> 2533274792737987;2:
> Probably the only argument would be the ability to encourage people to try new modes and diversify the ones they play.

I would understand that if there would be challenges like the longterm recommendations from Reach.
Like play 100 Slayer matches - Slayer Iron
Play 1000 player Matches - Slayer silver etc

10

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> > 2533274792737987;2:
> > Probably the only argument would be the ability to encourage people to try new modes and diversify the ones they play.
>
> I would understand that if there would be challenges like the longterm recommendations from Reach.
> Like play 100 Slayer matches - Slayer Iron
> Play 1000 player Matches - Slayer silver etc

I was thinking more along the side of Fiesta, Action Sack, Grifball, and etc. It could be used to populate lower population game modes.

11

> 2533274792737987;10:
> > 2533274861263132;9:
> > > 2533274792737987;2:
> > > Probably the only argument would be the ability to encourage people to try new modes and diversify the ones they play.
> >
> > I would understand that if there would be challenges like the longterm recommendations from Reach.
> > Like play 100 Slayer matches - Slayer Iron
> > Play 1000 player Matches - Slayer silver etc
>
> I was thinking more along the side of Fiesta, Action Sack, Grifball, and etc. It could be used to populate lower population game modes.

Ah that u meant.

Well I would prefer Fiesta and the more fun modes alltogether in action sack.
Overall I could understand in a very minor way that people could be forced then to play more unpopular gamemodes but on the other side you easily can see that people may don’t want to play the game the challenges told them to do because they want to have more fun.

12

> 2533274861263132;8:
> > 2661949065475413;7:
> > > 2533274866536985;6:
> > > > 2661949065475413;5:
> > > > My thing is, it only progresses the battle pass, which will reset each season. So like is there even any permanent progression to work towards, no sR or anything? Or do I have to do the same grind season over season.
> > >
> > > The battlepass doesn’t reset each season in halo infinite. Battlepasses are permanent.
> >
> > While you can still complete existing/old passes, each season will introduce a new one to start over fresh.
>
> They will work much like MCC’s Pass. You get points per completed challenge to unlock something from a Battle Pass, be it a past battle pass or the actuall.
> But I’m sure they will make sure that you have to pay money to get fast forward

They weren’t point based in the tech test, and you couldn’t pick your rewards either.

13

> 2661949065475413;12:
> > 2533274861263132;8:
> > > 2661949065475413;7:
> > > > 2533274866536985;6:
> > > > > 2661949065475413;5:
> > > > > My thing is, it only progresses the battle pass, which will reset each season. So like is there even any permanent progression to work towards, no sR or anything? Or do I have to do the same grind season over season.
> > > >
> > > > The battlepass doesn’t reset each season in halo infinite. Battlepasses are permanent.
> > >
> > > While you can still complete existing/old passes, each season will introduce a new one to start over fresh.
> >
> > They will work much like MCC’s Pass. You get points per completed challenge to unlock something from a Battle Pass, be it a past battle pass or the actuall.
> > But I’m sure they will make sure that you have to pay money to get fast forward
>
> They weren’t point based in the tech test, and you couldn’t pick your rewards either.

Was of course just tech test. So if you can’t take your rewards it also might be entirely possible that the actuall system that was shown was just a concept.

14

> 2533274861263132;13:
> > 2661949065475413;12:
> > > 2533274861263132;8:
> > > > 2661949065475413;7:
> > > > > 2533274866536985;6:
> > > > > > 2661949065475413;5:
> > > > > > My thing is, it only progresses the battle pass, which will reset each season. So like is there even any permanent progression to work towards, no sR or anything? Or do I have to do the same grind season over season.
> > > > >
> > > > > The battlepass doesn’t reset each season in halo infinite. Battlepasses are permanent.
> > > >
> > > > While you can still complete existing/old passes, each season will introduce a new one to start over fresh.
> > >
> > > They will work much like MCC’s Pass. You get points per completed challenge to unlock something from a Battle Pass, be it a past battle pass or the actuall.
> > > But I’m sure they will make sure that you have to pay money to get fast forward
> >
> > They weren’t point based in the tech test, and you couldn’t pick your rewards either.
>
> Was of course just tech test. So if you can’t take your rewards it also might be entirely possible that the actuall system that was shown was just a concept.

One can hope, but Unyshek already confirmed that the progression method shown in the tech test will be the sole progression method when the game launches. With that in mind, it’s safe to assume the other components shown will remain constant as well.

it’s also too close to launch for them to completely rebuild the entire system. Optimistically, the best we can hope for is a post launch update if enough people don’t like it.

15

> 2533274861263132;11:
> > 2533274792737987;10:
> > > 2533274861263132;9:
> > > > 2533274792737987;2:
> > > > Probably the only argument would be the ability to encourage people to try new modes and diversify the ones they play.
> > >
> > > I would understand that if there would be challenges like the longterm recommendations from Reach.
> > > Like play 100 Slayer matches - Slayer Iron
> > > Play 1000 player Matches - Slayer silver etc
> >
> > I was thinking more along the side of Fiesta, Action Sack, Grifball, and etc. It could be used to populate lower population game modes.
>
> Ah that u meant.
>
> Well I would prefer Fiesta and the more fun modes alltogether in action sack.
> Overall I could understand in a very minor way that people could be forced then to play more unpopular gamemodes but on the other side you easily can see that people may don’t want to play the game the challenges told them to do because they want to have more fun.

Plus, I pointed this out in an earlier response, you don’t lose this level of encouragement to try other modes when you add on match xp to the challenge system. It’d be more like “hey, you can level up no matter how you want to play. But you’ll get some bonus for trying out these other modes” which I think is a much better system.

16

> 2661949065475413;5:
> My thing is, it only progresses the battle pass, which will reset each season. So like is there even any permanent progression to work towards, no sR or anything? Or do I have to do the same grind season over season.

Each battlepass is permanent in Infinite and will likely function similary to MCC’s battlepass. When a new one comes out all your progression in the previous pass remains. Since there are no season points its also likely each pass has a seperate progression system. Xp earned will only be for your selected pass and you’ll progress through that one only.
Unlike MCC you might have to physically select a pass before you start progressing through it. So you don’t accidentally progress through one pass when you actually wanted to progress through another pass.

I hope this makes sense and of course is mearly speculation until we’re officially told.

17

Check this out

while I still want passive XP. I’m fine with it post launch at some point.

18

Wasn’t MMR implemented post launch in H5 and MCC? Didn’t really seem to have been an issue implementing them later in the previous titles, so I don’t understand the big stink.

Especially with phrasing from the clarification Uny posted implying that the “win x matches” challenge will continually refresh, meaning you’re at least always progressing a challenge, and therefore always indirectly progressing XP (as I interpreted it).

My opinion is the vocal backlash right now is out of proportion to the actual scale of the problem.

19

i think the main concern here for people is the “combination” of challenges, when it comes to non-slayer objective modes, or in slayer, betrayals.

lets say for example we have these challenges;
win 3 capture the flag games
kill 10 spartans with a sniper
win 3 match made games
kill 10 spartans with a shotgun

this is a general example of what they did look like during the flight.
now lets say these can all be completed just by playing capture the flag, but for some reason, you or people your playing with want to complete these as fast as possible in the least relaxed way possible and the most optimized.

and they can’t get their hands on a sniper rifle, or they can’t carry the flag because they have a shotgun, now our issues are, this player would rather get kills than run the objective, and if betrayals are enabled, they will be betraying you for trying to run the flag, or for holding one of these weapons.

then after they betray you, you boot them, and your down a player, ideally this would be happening on both teams so your at least both down players, but one team, and obviously not your team cause you don’t have that kind of luck, is now completing their challenges by spawn killing you, in capture the flag.
and when they complete the kill x spartans with x weapons they’ll take your flag and win.

though that sounds almost better than spawn killing you in a regular progression system where more kills is more experience points.

maybe my point is that you can’t stop people grinding progression from spawn killing you, and maybe my point is that this could certainly leak into other game modes.

an easy fix would be tying combinable challenges to objective based gameplay, … betraying is still an issue, but you could tie kill spartans to slayer modes, and win modes to any mode.

so we would then say with our challenges that the fast way to complete these is to play slayer, then afterwards play capture the flag.

is that fun? eh, not really. but you where planning on playing big team battle anyway, and that has slayer and objective modes, so just have fun for a little bit and all these challenges will probably be complete before you know it.

20

I’ve actually seen restrictive gating of progression in a few games in recent years. Apparently its like some sort of parental control to stop people burning themselves out to max rank. I asked the question in another thread why they would do this but I just remembered I had seen it in other games and that was their reasoning. So you would pace yourself.