Are the Spartans just not important anymore?

So, the Spartan IVs are made to be massed produced, with volunteers within the UNSC military. Before, the Spartan IIs were stuff of legends, with the IIIs behind. Now with the Spartan IVs, you see them pretty much everywhere.

Some people, such as Dr. Halsey, had considered the S-IVs to be inferior to the IIs. And this is even more apparent in this fan base. The IIs, especially the Chief, are considered what true Spartans are, how they were legendary, so awe inspiring. They give hope to the marines while they filled the Covenant with terror, earning them their demon status.

But with the IVs, you see them every day. Now they’re just meh to some people. It’s true with their more advanced armor to compensate for the less intense augmentation, they can match the strength of the S-IIs. It’s like that the Spartan IVs don’t really matter anymore.

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I really wish there would be a class 2 of spartan 2s or 3s. I think this was touched upon in a mortal combat game I think? But I’m not sure if it’s canon.

Imagine if ONI made a class 2 of Spartan 2/3s or just called it some other name but did something similar to how the 2/3s were trained. Maybe Project Spartan Headhunter Generation, PSHG.

ONI knows the S4s can’t meet expectations of the 2/3s so decide try to recreate the magic of older programs . Maybe even recruit Hasley and Mendez (is he alive still?) and if they agree to do the program they will be forgiven of their war crimes. Only to make some more, Beautiful Poetic irony.

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Spartans are still important, as they are still considered the most advanced weapon humanity has ever created, down to all spartan (even the Spartan IVs) being rated hyperlethal (in the lore, its not just chief and noble six).

as for seeing S-IVs everywhere. it should also be noted that Spartan IVs are still pretty rare, even at the time of Halo 5 (when IVs were most likely at their peak population). we see so many IVs due to us being the player, and as the players we are playing as spartans, and the FPS games putting heavy focus on chief and other spartans, with the only exception being ODST. on top of this, halo 4, 5, and somewhat Infinite had had many scenes with the Infinity (with infinite being the aftermath, and infinity survivors). the vast majority of Spartan IVs are stationed on the Infinity. in-universe, if you are on the Infinity you are drastically more likely to see Spartan-IVs. however, if you are not on Infinity, you not likely ever going to see a spartan.

(Going to note this before someone mentions this, but many fans believe Spartan IVs have completely replaced the ODST branch, hence why they have not shown up in the 343 era games. However, the IVs have not replaced, nor significantly diminished the ODST population. Even on the Infinity where most of the IVs are, they are still greatly outnumbered by ODSTs. If I remember correctly it’s something like 700 ODST to every 5 Spartan IV or something like that)

In-universe, the IVs are not seen as “inferior”. They are by no means seen as a step up from the IIs or IIIs, but they aren’t seen as being worse. Generally the IIs and IIIs don’t mind the IVs (especially, since they trained the IVs, and most IVs even picked up mannerisms and and other traits from their II and III trainers). even the Master Chief himself finds their resourcefulness and determination admirable. He even outright speaks highly of Fireteam Taurus in Shadows of Reach. Those within the UNSC that are serving on the front lines still look up the the IVs and revere them as if they were IIs, even going so far as defer all command to the Spartan IVs in times of crisis, like when Infinity fell. The only major critics of the IVs in the lore are Dr Halsey (to be fair she doesn’t like IIIs either) and, ironically, the Spartan IVs themselves. As we’ve seen in the books, IVs take defeats personally and blame themselves for missions going awry or any friendly losses, blaming themselves for not living up to the IIs.

As for the fans. Many fans were turned off by Palmer’s “thought you’d be taller” remark and by Demarco’s frat boy personality. And a lot of fans ended up associating the personality of these two individuals with the whole of the Spartan IV program. It doesn’t help either that most IVs that we get in the games beside Demarco and Palmer don’t really have any personality and are about as interesting as cardboard. There is quite the difference between the IVs we get in the games vs the IVs in the books/comics. Generally, the IVs in the books/comics are well received and even beloved by fans. They are great characters, they show a great mixture of humanity and spartan stoicism, and we see them do awesome things. However, most of the fan base doesn’t read the books, and only play the games. Fortunately, a large majority of the fan base is starting to appreciate the IVs because of Halo Infinite. The Spartans we find, hear in the audio logs, and read about in Rubicon Protocol effectively changed the way many fans view the IVs simply because they actually represented what Spartan IVs should’ve be like since halo 4 and how they’ve been in the books up to this point, as highly competent/professional super soldiers willing to do anything to protect humanity.
Unfortunately there are some fans that just don’t like the IVs because they are IVs. While the IVs are “weaker” than the IIs, the difference in strength between them is actually not that big. IVs are ridiculously strong while in armor, weaker out of armor, but are still inhumanly strong out of armor. It’s more likely that their augmentations make them closer to the IIIs than the II. For some reason though, many fans like to over exaggerate the weakness as the IVs being so weak that they’re no stronger than an un-augmented human. On a similar note, many fans didn’t like that the IVs are adult volunteers, and willingly ignore the fact that these volunteers are all hand selected from the UNSC armed forces (many of the IVs were serving before the IIIs were even born), and fought as normal humans against the very same covenant that nearly wiped out the IIs and IIIs. and were then trained again by IIs and IIIs. instead, we see fans favoring their idea of the IVs being so incompetent and poorly trained that they entirely ineffective or are equivalent to random untrained civilians in power armor because they weren’t trained since they were 6.

TLDR: Spartans are still important.
Spartan IVs in books/comics/lore/infinite > IVs in halo 4 and 5.
Infinite has better IVs than 4 and 5.
Spartan IVs are great in the lore but are not received well by fans because the bad writing of Palmer, Demarco, and Locke. And most fans don’t read the books, so they don’t know about the good IVs.

Now for some fun facts:

  1. Spartan IVs hated the gen-2 armor, as it was not as protective and was cheaply made. Gen-1 would have been better but was too expensive and lacking some advancements that Gen-2 had.
  2. Spartan IV have some very unique/strange augmentations: they can eat tree bark and breath methane. They can also see in total darkness like the IIIs.
  3. The original Spartan IVs were created to not need armor, and were strong enough to toss around Spartan IIs, however the augmentations drove the candidates insane and they went into a violent frenzy. The only known surviving candidate tried to take control of Infinity, but was thrown out a window into space by Palmer.
  4. In the early storyboard sketches of halo 4, the introduction of the Spartan IVs involved a squad of IVs fighting off prometheans that ambushed Chief, during which, Palmer chokes one of the knights. Something of note that I find interesting is the Spartans’ armor in this very early concept story board, as it is visually reminiscent of the SPI armor but with the air assault helmet.
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It would be possible than the ONI is actually training some Spartan II children in the dark.
Otherwise, in a more ethical and legal way, I could see an elit school to give a military training and at their majority, they could choose to be turned in Spartan

Also, Mendez is on Onyx (alive or death, I won’t spoil)

SPARTAN-II’s will Always be the peak of the spartans.

I still see SPARTAN-III’s more superior to the SPARTAN-IV’S

The SPARTAN-I’s may be the weakest amongst them all. But for some reason i still beleave even with the program’s failure they could still some how be better then a S IV.

Well, I’m not so sure. Regardless of class, a Spartan is still a supersoldier. So to the eyes of normal marines they are basically demigods. However, it’s true that S II’s are superior to IV’s, and IV’s can keep up the pace due to their advanced armor systems. I see Spartan IV’s carrying the legacy of previous generations as beacons of hope for humanity out there. Back then, Spartans were rare, like you said and it’s a fact that most that died were listed as MIA so it can be said “A Spartan never dies in battle” but after so many years and only having the Chief being one of the few who are still alive (and returned to the eyes of the public)
So, to those normal humans having so many Spartans gives them hope, and let’s be real some Iv’s really are not efficient but others are. I think it’s unfair they get a lot of dirt. It’s even shown on Infinite the Chief has a lot of respect to many of them. So yeah, Spartans are important still.

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It’s all about you, John-117 guy, why are you even questioning what the other Spartans have been doing while you have been keeping Cortana busy!

Honestly to me, Spartan IVs just seem like ODST in spartan armor. Books, lore/ side stories are cool but the way they’re portrayed in the games make it seem like that. In H4 & H5 Halsey doesn’t give a rats *** about Palmer or team Osiris and does see them as inferior. Blue team is more focused and osiris doesnt seem like that. But thats how I view it by their H5 conversations. Alot of fans out there havent dove into the books or lore. Just have gone by games, youtube videos and quick internet readings. I hope someday 343 can express a difference between the two types of spartans when they fix infinite ten years from now :joy:

I think the difference is well express between Spartan II and IV, even if you just play to the game. Halo 4 Spartan ops présented the fireteam Majestic and Halo 5 Guardian presented the fireteam Osiri, it’s well enough to understand that Spartans IV aren’t child soldier, but soldiers turned in Spartans. As for their comptence, they’re human, so of course some Spartans are stronger than other, Osiris is stronger than Majestic for example

i agree the 4 are jotninteresting because their chracter is basicly marines , but better. S II were made to be like legends. The SIII still work ok but the S4 are too much . they are too “normal” no "children being kidnapped and turned into supersoldiers " is kinda boring.

Over the years the UNSC has learned from trial and error to refine the vetting process for “creating Spartans.” Armor technology has really sped the process up a lot but that doesn’t mean Spartan IVs are now useless or inferior to the older Spartans. The Spartan program in general is the only hope for humanity against an alien invasion and even against insurrection amongst humanity.

All that being said, if a Spartan II and a Spartan IV fought hand to hand while out of power armor, then I think the Spartan II would win.

Spartans are important, its why the UNSC wants more of them.

Having like 7 special people is a dumb move when you can make hundreds - thousands of slightly less special people.

Even a Spartan II can beat a Spartan IV in a fist fight (not that fist fights matter most the time in a modern or sci-fi battlefield), can a Spartan II beat a squad of four’s working together? 10 of them? 100 of them?

Chief got lucky to be in the right place at the right time in the games, but its important to remember he spent most the war mitigating losing battles since there simply wasn’t enough spartans. to make a difference.

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Maybe MC can beat an hundred of Spartans ! Technically, a Spartan have the same strenght and shield as an elit and he kill hundreds of them. I don’t say a Spartan IV is equal to an Elit, I just say a soldier is more than his physical abilities. Not every Spartan II in MC’s place would have success. Not every Elit in Arbiter’s place would have success. MC is a good soldier and could probably kill a hundred of Spartans.

As for the human-covenant war, the UNSC was losing the fight in space and Spartan can’t do a lot of thing on that field. At the end of the war, they had more intels to board a ship or strike on covenant territory, but I don"t think than an hundred more Spartan would have save the UNSC

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I don’t think they’re really mass produced. There’s just more than fifty of them.

For example Escharum seemed pretty confident he’d killed all the Spartans after losing the Academy and Infinity. That strongly suggests the whole Spartan Corp isn’t really that significant. Especially when you consider the UNSC has hundreds of worlds and billions of people.

In the book Rubicon Protocal people are impressed and inspired by the Spartan IV characters. They are seen as heroic Demi god like people distanced from humanity somewhat.

They don’t need to be as good as the Chief. They just need to be able to kill Brutes and Elites. Consider how many enemies Osiris actually kills in Halo 5 or how many you go through in Spartan Ops. Thousands of enemy soldiers and dozens of vehicles in the space of a few hours. Then applying that force where it’s needed and we see those results play out in the story.

Really, 343 had to explain away why the UNSC was struggling so much with the Banished. The game plays loose with numbers and doesn’t visualise the battle wells in the book they clarify that Atriox brought hundreds of ships and hundreds of thousands (maybe millions) of warriors to Zeta Halo.

Which makes no sense and I will die on that hill; but the Spartan IV can’t deal with the conflict because it gives Chief an obstacle to beat. It’s not a slight that they can’t deal with the problem themselves. They’re depicted as pretty heroic and having been dealt a poor hand during Infinite.

Spartans suffered the same fate as the Terminators. Sure, you have a T-3000 with all its new flashy gizmos, but at the end of the day it’s not THE TERMINATOR. Spartan II were the OG Spartans. Increasing their ranks has a detrimental effect on perception. If the Spartan III’s and IV were as rare as the Spartan II they would be cool, but still not as cool as the Spartan II.

They’re like a rare collectible, but not only that. The brutal abduction, cloning, indoctrination, training, forced augmentations, and forced military service really makes them a dark mirror of human history. Which makes them all the cooler still. They’re cold-blooded sociopathic killers with no real sense of morality beyond enemy bad UNSC good.

Originally designed to fight insurrectionists (separatists) who want freedom and independence, we send in our most free-will stripped military units to quell them. Then when the Covenant comes into the picture, to fight this new alien foe we fight them with some of the most alien humans. There are so many analogies you can make, and making Spartans easier to produce and making them more human only takes away from that.

The fan base will always have an animus against the Spartan IVs their introduction to the franchise was meant to appeal to the COD community, another thing we can thank 343 for.

But aside from that no the Spartans still matter in universe they are seen as the natural successors to the Spartan IIs and small number of Spartan IIIs that fought on the frontlines of the war. Many of them directly served under the older Spartans. The Spartans that we see in Rubicon Protocol are the epitome of what they should’ve been when they were first introduced to the lore in Halo 4.

When compared to the IIs I think it’s almost universally agreed that the IIs produced soldiers that had a certain edge given superior genetics and indoctrination. But that came at too high a cost. Halsey may consider them inferior and when you stack up an average II against an average IV physically they certainly would generally be inferior from an augmentation standpoint, not to mention you’d never have the issue of a II going rogue the way we’ve seen a small group of IVs.

On the other hand it’s been noted despite this the IVs do have the advantage in being far better versed in civilian life, are very resourceful in different scenarios due to past experience and have the advantage of greater numbers all equipped with the best equipment. It’s also been stated in the EU that newer recruits are being better trained than the first wave of IVs, they are younger, fresher and view Spartans as Demigod heroes as opposed to fellow soldiers as a lot of the older recruits did especially the ex ODSTs.