Are MLG and PRO just glorified versions of Pong?

Games Other Halo
1

I have a question for people, when you think of serious competition, do you think of minimizing everything in the game to only a few choices, or do you think of throwing everything up in the air and letting the best man win because hes better?

I believe I speak for a lot of people when I say that “MLG” and “PRO” are little more than glorified versions of pong. The reason being that with all the options in the game whither weapons, armor abilities, or anything else that comes to mind, being reduced down to a small list of supposedly popular first choices, if a list of choices at all, does not refine the game into something better, it in fact erodes strategic and tactical possibility if not destroying it all together.

The most common reasoning for this kind of reduction is that skill is limited to a select few weapons and equipment, and that everything else is “cheap” or “noobish” or simply lacking skill. I strongly disagree, to say that skill is limited to anything is to limit the very concept of skill itself.

Skill, it simplest terms is the ability to out perform the competition, to succeed in out thinking, out maneuvering, and to simply do better than your opponent.

When people tell me that this simple concept is limited to this single process of out shooting someone before they out shoot you, its absurd.

True skill is being able to jump outside of the norm and come up with something creative that allows you to exploit the competitions weaknesses, forcing them to search for the creative solution that will exploit yours. True skill is the evolution of strategy, to take a simple concept, identify the weaknesses, and create solutions that all you to fulfill the ultimate goal, to break all opposition until there is no one and nothing left to stand in your way, to win without doubt…

By this conclusion I would belittle “MLG” and “PRO” to the simplistic nothings that they are, a glorified variation of the game “pong”, where all the things listed above simply do not exist.

MLG, PRO, are not skill, they are custom games catering to players who cannot compete in real competition…

2

They don’t not use weapons because they take no skill. They don’t use weapons because they are useless. MLG only uses the useful weapons that actually promote good playing.

3

It sounds like you have a very strong negative impression of MLG. Do you even know much about the live tournaments and history? Look up some of the professional players, and you should see that they are normal people, with social lives, school/college, etc.

As for the settings, don’t confuse removing things with not being able to use them skillfully. The reasons for their settings are simple: to promote, fast, competitive gameplay with as little randomness as possible. The top MLG players on the circuit hated Reach due to its mechanics, namely bloom and sprint. Sprint was actually bad for competitive Halo as it did not punish players for bad positioning. Bloom was bad due to randomness and that spamming was actually better with the DMR.

If you manage to play the MLG playlist with the No Bloom/No Sprint settings, or even the GoldPro settings, you’ll see just how competitive the game can be. Although four-shot kills are fast, it is far from easy.

4

Yeah, because nothing proves skill quite like an AR firefight. Or having constant invisibility at your immediate disposal. Or being able to push a panic button once your foolish decisions get you in a sticky situation. Or being able to fly and completely bypass level geometry at your leisure. Or being able to see an enemy’s every move even when you don’t have a visual on them. Or being able to exploit the aforementioned knowledge by just sitting a corner undetected and waiting for them to show up. Or being able to inflict major stun on your opponent even when you don’t actually hit them with your rounds.

Stop me anytime.

5

It’s not that their minimizing it, their just leaving the stuff that takes more skill to use. DMR, sniper, needle rifle, magnum, plasma pistol, grenade launcher, rockets… That’s still a lot of weaponry.

Putting armor lock, banshees, and scorpion tanks isn’t going to make MLG more skilled just because it has more to the table… Common sense…

Also, camping with a shotgun in the yellow lift room in sword base, while armor locking every time someone tries to nade you doesn’t take skill. It’s just really cheap, boring, and pathetic.

Team Slayer has a much smaller skill gap because of the amount of stuff aimed towards casual audiences…

Because of the fact that MLG has mostly only precision weapons that require a lot of aim, it requires people with very high precision to be dominant.

Because of the fact that MLG has no radars, it requires more team work and communication to know where your team mates are.

Because of the fact that MLG doesn’t have armor abilities like armor lock, it doesn’t slow down the gameplay.

Because of the fact that powerful armor abilities like evade and jetpack are pick up only, means that you have to have good map control in order to have the advantage.

Play at least 50 MLG matches (isn’t as much as it sounds) and you will see why it is the most skilled playlist.

Also, MLG has stuff that most other gametypes don’t have:
-Faster movement speed
-Slower recharge for shields
-new maps and map variants
-armor abilities that you pick up instead of just start off with
-custom power ups and invis that you have to pick up
-Zero Bloom

So the point is… That just because they don’t have certain weapons in it, doesn’t mean it takes away strategy… Your point is about as valid as the fact that your comparing a modern shooting game to an atari 2600 game.

6

Any thing can be competitive so long as it is under our control. There are some things within our control that do not offer enough variations in outcomes to differentiate between the truly skilled and the lucky.

This is why we don’t see competitive coin flipping. Sure it might take tons of skill to flip a quarter do that it always lands with a specific side up, but any body has a pretty good chance of flipping the same coin and getting the same result with only the skill needed to drop something to the ground (ie. None).

Randomness also takes away from control, and is mitigated as much as possible in games that cant eliminate it (card games like magic yugioh and pokemon allow you to build your deck as you please etc. Poker is played out across multiple hands etc). This is why bloom is seen as noncompetitive- the random nature of the Max rate of fire allows for lucky kills.

Unfair advantages are also antithesis to competition. If, once easily or randomly gained, an advantage secures a win then there is a problem. This is why asymmetry can lead to problems. Maps are more abstractly competitive when symmetrical. This is also why asymmetrical objectives games are played in rounds- to ensure equal opportunity.

Mlg and the like are an attempt to weed out the weapons that don’t offer the greatest control and outcome variation, and provide a balanced playing field. Things like AA’s take away from what has traditionally been the hallmarks of the halo competitive skill set.

Some disagree on their methods (I don’t find much wrong with the AA’s in general, while finding jetpack destroys the way most maps feel like they should play), but the goals of mlg are noble. Good stiff competition can be fun.

7

I didn’t know it took longer to recharge your shields. Good post and i agree…

8

Good MLG players are still good at default but good default players are not good at MLG therefor an inherit skill gap required to play MLG.

9

> Good MLG players are still good at default but good default players are not good at MLG therefor an inherit skill gap required to play MLG.

but these goo MLG players will still poop in the good default players in default …

10

And this competitive Halo hate thread won’t get locked… anyone willing to take bets? $20 bucks on the table right now.

11

> And this competitive Halo hate thread won’t get locked… anyone willing to take bets? $20 bucks on the table right now.

i bet 100$ and wont be banned

12

I think this guy is on to something. Really, I would in fact like to see teams play with the AR, plasma rifle and repeater in Colombus.

I understand that it’s hard to realize that there are a lot of players that are significantly better than you are at Halo, no reason to be mad because of it. I am not.

inb4 edited post.

13

The use of weapons in only 1 piece of the multifaceted body that is Halo skill. Even when simply talking about precision weapons, the ability to have almost perfect accuracy is prerequisite to being skilled at Halo. The reason MLG uses such a select weapon set is because it allows for a far higher skill gap, thus making skilled players far more effective that less skilled players. And like I said, aiming isn’t everything; the utility of a weapon such as a DMR allows for more complex teamwork and individual skill to occur. The DMR is a Swiss Army Knife with all the gadgets while the AR is just a pair of scissors. It results in far less limitation on a players abilities, the only limitation being their own lack of skill. With the DMR a team can easily cover 5 times the area than a team with AR’s. allowing for map control to be more effective, and the loss of it from your opponents to be more detrimental.

There is 1 set of complex skills that the core of Halo revolves around and that is what MLG and competitive players focus on. No one will argue that default doesn’t have more skills, it’s just that they are all very shallow and put limitation on the far more complex skills.

2 analogies I’ve used in the past are 1: the crutches analogy

You have 1 man with a broken leg, and 1 without and you face them in a race. Clearly the man without the broken leg will beat the broken legged man easily and by a great distance.

Now put them both on crutches. You have added many new skills to the equation, but you have put a serious hinderance on the skill of running. While the guy who is fine will still win, he will have won by less, and it will take him longer to reach the finish line. This is essentially what bloom, AA’s, and all the other crap do to Halo.

Another is the Chess combined with Operation analogy.

I think we can all agree that Chess is a very complex and skillful game, so lets say you now combined the Chess board with that of the game Operation. Now there is a new skill in which if you touch your piece to the edge while moving it to a new space, you will lose your turn. So you have the 70 year old Grand master who is almost losing to kindergarteners because he keeps hitting the edges and can’t effectively execute his strategy.

While neither of these really do the the argument full justice, hopefully it will kind of show you.

  1. The more variables you add the less you can control 2. The more variables you add the less importance there is on the base trait.

I’d have to actually write like a 3 post long essay explaining what the actual skills of Halo are for you to understand why adding bloom AA’s and derp weapons reduce the importance and effectiveness of these skills, something I’m not willing to do especially when you’re hands down the most ignorant person about MLG who I have ever seen vocalize their beliefs on MLG.

Inb4edited for flaming

14

> > Good MLG players are still good at default but good default players are not good at MLG therefor an inherit skill gap required to play MLG.
>
> but these goo MLG players will still poop in the good default players in default …

Isn’t that what he said?

15

> > > Good MLG players are still good at default but good default players are not good at MLG therefor an inherit skill gap required to play MLG.
> >
> > but these goo MLG players will still poop in the good default players in default …
>
> Isn’t that what he said?

maybe. Depends on what “poop in the good default players in default” means.

16

Oh OP…you gave me a good chuckle. Yes the pros in Halo are “simplistic nothings”…come on man, thats just a stupid thing to say and you know it. These pros played back when there wasnt many options for removing weapons back in Halo CE and Halo 2…and guess what. They still dominated.

MLG chooses settings that promote fair, balanced and fast paced gameplay. They also try to use settings that will force the most action and take the most skill so that the viewing experience is fun. What would you rather watch? Pistola or Ninja in beast mode with the sniper and GL or watch them camp behind corners with sword waiting for people with armor lock at the ready to get out of danger? I think there’s a fairly clear answer.

Bottom line. Pros are pros because they have an understanding of the game that most people don’t. They use the weapons that take the most skill but their knowledge and map control/movement strats alone are enough to beat 99% of the regular fan base on any settings.

17

“Are MLG and PRO just glorified versions of pong?”

No. That’s ridiculous. There are many reasons why the MLG playlist is the hardest playlist in Reach, with the largest skill-gap and with the best players competing in it.

18

> I think this guy is on to something. Really, I would in fact like to see teams play with the AR, plasma rifle and repeater in Colombus.

This could happen, and the best MLG teams would still win.

The thing is, nobody wants to watch that.

19

OP don’t be ridiculous.

I see your point, and the valid part is that with MLG/Pong both players start with the same tools to win. The more skilled player (team) will win.

Now if you want “Vanilla Reach Pong”:

-1Pong player has the ability to put an invincible wall (armor lock) on their end.

-2nd player can make the ball invisible and have a ton of balls show up on your screen. (invisibility loadout)

Now do you understand?

20

> > And this competitive Halo hate thread won’t get locked… anyone willing to take bets? $20 bucks on the table right now.
>
> i bet 100$ and wont be banned

He won’t, but we all will for saying the word “skill.”