Are 343 innovating?

There are two sides to this argument. Some believe Halo should ‘modernize’ and introduce features like sprint. On the contrary there are those that believe that these features are copied from other popular fps. This is a big debate and I want to see what the community thinks.

Sprint and ADS:
Implemented in a way that is different from the norm, though it’s not the first time ever either of these things have been implemented like this.

Weapon Markers:
Maybe Quake Live did it first, but it’s not common place either.

I can’t think of many other innovations.

> 2533274819302824;2:
> Sprint and ADS:
> Implemented in a way that is different from the norm, though it’s not the first time ever either of these things have been implemented like this.
>
> Actually yeah, that’s pretty much the only innovation I can think of.

I personally consider innovation to be creating something completely new or using something that currently exists in a completely different way.Up to you as to whether you think things like sprint and ads would fall under that category.

Everything has been done on the mechanics side, there’s no such thing as an innovative feature anymore.

Tech and graphical capabilities are another discussion.

I’m not going to vote on this, because the answer is yes AND no.

What 343i has been doing that can be seen as innovating, is applying concepts to the game that are common to FPS, and making them feel like they belong in Halo. From our their version of ADS, their balancing of sprinting. They are finding a good middle ground to things that the general public want out of a FPS, while appeasing the long time fans of the series. Their trailers and advertising for the game is showing a lot of fresh concepts as well, with Hunt the Truth being an AMAZING way to hype the fans of the series for the game’s release.

With that said, 343i is also needs to fix some issues… Their new design for the Rocket Launcher is like that of any typical FPS game, and honestly I STILL have some issue differentiating the Hydra from the Rocket Launcher based purely on the their look. At the same time, I worry that while they have added to mechanics such as Forge, that I don’t think they have given us Forge 3.0, they have just given us Forge 2.0 Remastered. The community has BEGGED for the ability to change the time of day on maps forever, and while a lot more tools in MCC have been shown in Forge, it still feels like they are happy to just skirt by on just enough of an expansion to appease their audiences.

I think right now 343i is working to try to bring Halo into Halo 2.0, and make sure that Halo still feels like it should, and this awkward transition has taken place since Reach and the implementation of Loadouts and Armor Abilities. Halo is making progress on how to do this, and honestly I think they should continue to try to polish the core of Halo till looking at it makes us all blinded in awe, and the Beta proves they are trying to do just that… But if Halo’s multiplayer is the prime rib steak with your meal, and that steak is delicious… then I expect that the sides to be just as awe-inspiring. Give us Firefight 3.0, give us the forge tools to make maps that SHAME 343i, give us reason to come back time and time again to Halo 5, that when we get burnt out on one area of the game, the others still are so amazing that by the time we are burnt out on another aspect of it, we have recovered enough to tackle what we had initially dropped again. 343i, I don’t just want the steak, I want the whole meal.

> 2533274898867664;3:
> I personally consider innovation to be creating something completely new or using something that currently exists in a completely different way.Up to you as to whether you think things like sprint and ads would fall under that category.

Just trying to stack the deck in their favor as much as possible.

I consider good gameplay far more important than meeting some innovation quota anyways.

Innovation is the means to an end, it’s not the end itself.

> 2533274889350043;4:
> Everything has been done on the mechanics side, there’s no such thing as an innovative feature anymore.
>
> Tech and graphical capabilities are another discussion.

I would have to disagree. I will admit it is certainly much harder to innovate but there are still IP’s that manage to bring something new to the table.

There is no arguement here. Innovation is about taking what is but mixing it in a manner as to seem new/fresh.

Doing what others are doing but only better is not innovation.
Doing the same thing without change is not innovation.
And while we’re at it, making something new is inventing, not innovating.

Halo: CE innovated the FPS market with its nOOb-friendly aim-assists for a console control pad and weapons designed to be used 2 at a time.

H2 innovated the online experience with its lobby/matchmaking system but nothing in the gameplay was innovating to the genre.

H3 innovated the spectator experience with Forge and Theatre. Gameplay wasn’t innovated but Forge and Theatre allowed console machima’s and game replays on a level not seen since the breakout of the capture card.

Sprint has been in Halo since Reach, was in Battlefield before CoD.

Reach’s Dodge turned into H4’s Thruster Pack which turned into H5’s Thrusters.

“ADS” (which Smart Scope is not) was in Battlefield a year before CoD.

Now for Halo, I’d call Smart Scope innovating because it’s a why to mesh many different game’s use of sight views and use with Halo’s descoping and unrestricted movement.
But I wouldn’t call that genre innovative… Perhaps it’s been 2007 with Forge/Theatre in H3 and CoD4: MW’s Killstreak+Perk system since we’ve seen something “new.”
I’m waiting for the innovation.

I’m just gonna vote yes and leave it at that. I’m sure there will be plenty of arguing going on in this thread for the next couple of days, no need to add to it, I guess.

Innovation? What’s innovation?

And on this topic, I’ll link you to a video that I think perfectly sums up what my reply would’ve been if I bothered to spend my time replying the nth time to a thread about “innovation”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cxhs-GLE29Q

Not referring to the OP or anyone specifically, but the obsession some people seem to have with ‘innovation’ is obnoxious at this point. People seem to act as if there is a set amount of ‘innovation’ or ‘evolution’ that needs to happen with an entry in a series otherwise it is arbitrarily deemed ‘stale’.

Truly novel gameplay innovations are hard to come by and even when they do, very rarely do they invalidate the mechanics and gameplay formulas that came before. As far as significant changes within the genre and the industry in general go there simply have not been any major changes in technology to make core Halo gameplay outdated in any meaninful way. Halo was helped to build the modern console shooter landscape and in many instances forms its very foundations.

Something like Goldeneye is outdated as it came from a mostly pre twin stick controller era where shooter’s were a more niche affair due to the lack of effective control options. Halo simply doesn’t have those same issues so I find the claims that the gameplay of the original trilogy being somehow fundamentally outdated to be rather silly but I digress.

Its not as if there is anything inherently long with trying new things, but I have found most of 343’s additions to be rather unimpressive. Doubling down on controversial aspects of Reach mechanics and adding perks/killstreaks in Halo 4 and in Halo 5 we have ADS and ‘mobility’ mechanics which are already becoming run of the mill when it comes to mainstream releases. If this is all they have to offer, I can’t really say I would consider them to be ‘innovating’ in any meaninful way.

I’m saying this more as a response to individuals saying that Halo 5 is innovating. Not going to take a side. I just want to gauge what the general community thinks. Not necessarily saying it has to be innovative.

> 2533274881015020;10:
> Innovation? What’s innovation?
>
> And on this topic, I’ll link you to a video that I think perfectly sums up what my reply would’ve been if I bothered to spend my time replying the nth time to a thread about “innovation”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cxhs-GLE29Q

How did I never think about that?

Everyone always using CoD as an example.

Madden is a game that truly never changes, and yet it’s constantly at the top of the charts.

Not ‘innovating’ as much as ‘updating’.
In order to attract shooter fans 343I needs to make their game at least slightly resemble other FPS games.
If they don’t, all the ex-COD players will have no grenades! (get it?)

I wish I could say with a straight face that they are…

Not because MCC didn’t work, or because Halo 4 wasn’t… great, no… All of my favorite franchises are struggling to maintain or improve upon features in their previous installments that made them special, all at the cost of ‘innovating’ elsewhere, and there’s no way 343 is any different… It somehow isn’t ‘possible’ to do both anymore despite more powerful hardware. Forza 5 shipped with the least cars and tracks since Forza 2, despite 2 whole years and all the assets they need, and it won awards! They made sure Drivatar came back and that was about it… Pokemon OR/AS shipped to houses worldwide without the very thing that made Hoenn so challenging and replayable at the time; Battle Frontier. But hey, they added the Delta episode, and you can beat that in a day!

I can’t guarantee Halo 5 will ship with a working file browser or any real Forge improvements, let alone ‘innovating’ with matchmaking options for customs…They’ve already confirmed no Invasion or Firefight. Elites or any other species in MP still pending and so is mix & match armor custimzation.

I can’t guarantee anything new will be added, or if anything ‘good’ will return… I know they could add weapon callouts and countdowns, though :confused:

Yes for Halo.
No for gaming.
So both, but I’ll vote yes because this is Halo.

> 2533274819302824;13:
> > 2533274881015020;10:
> > Innovation? What’s innovation?
> >
> > And on this topic, I’ll link you to a video that I think perfectly sums up what my reply would’ve been if I bothered to spend my time replying the nth time to a thread about “innovation”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cxhs-GLE29Q
>
>
> How did I never think about that?
>
> Everyone always using CoD as an example.
>
> Madden is a game that truly never changes, and yet it’s constantly at the top of the charts.

But hey, that’s just a theory… a gammmeee theory, thanks for sharing~

…But yea I think it’s like that, sure.

The real question is: do they need to? In some cases, probably.

What i’ve seen so far nowdays, the thematic “Innovation” is a funny thing. When the Devs create Game, which is in the Core the Same, people get angry because there is no difference… if they do innovation, then people cry because its not the same anymore…

About Halo 5, i can’t say much. I didn’t play that much. Halo 4 itself i wouldn’t consider as my Favorite, because Halo 2, 1 and ODST are my favorites so far, but i enjoyed and liked it so far, like Reach. It have sometimes a bit of CoDish feel, yes, but thats in my eyes not a bad point. CoD lacks only in Quality, the Gameplay itself, if you combine with good Quality, can be fun.
Still, what i’ve seen so far, is Halo 5 what should’ve been Halo 4…
But thats only my opinion.

I said no because the beta didnt seem to have much new. Sure a few abilities. I think the real innovation would be the locations. More varied terrain, destructible objects like SOME trees should fall after taking enough damage. Light cover vs hard cover where light cover bullets penetrate after repeated gunfire. Wind, snow, water. How about create a new terrain never heard of before eveything doesnt have to be rooted in what we know, Maybe there’s something different out there.

Maybe an underwater level in campaign. How about a multiplayer mode where the 2 teams are fighting aboard a crashing ship and the winners have to make it to an escape pod before time runs out, meaning maybe not eveybody on th.e team even gets off. How about another level where each team has that giant sand car from H4 where most of the match is both teams invading each other cars. You could mirror this with scarabs maybe have a weak spot that could be shot to make the scarab shut down for a few moments.

Thats why I dont like having a reason added to the matchmaking because its really only there to put a crutch on innovation and to be an excuse why not to put in difficult things. Those difficult things are whats will elevate the game. They need to start thinking outside of their comfort zone.