AR starts wasn’t that bad in pervious games because…

343 add more BRs to every map pls

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The main issue also extends from the fact that the Assault Rifle does a lot of damage, can ADS again which tightens the bullet spread and allows for more mid-ranged combat.

This results in the ranged weapons that are supposed to dominate mid-ranged combat to be a less viable option.
The Battle Rifle is now used mainly for headshots once shields are broken.
The Commando is outclassed by both the AR and Battle Rifle when it comes to both close and mid combat.
The Stalker Rifle is just the Beam Rifle but less damage and yet it has a slower time-to-kill than the classic Covenant Carbine.

The Assault Rifle in previous games was a close-range weapon where if you tried to use it mid-range, most of your shots would miss and you would only occasionally peck at the enemy shields.

Were you even born when CE released? joking
CE Default was map-specific, and its AR was definitely not a staple of anything. If you joined any LAN or local party, you likely played a Custom variant with M6D starts or a Pro variant which already had good settings. And, if you tried to AR any average player who had their M6D out, you likely found yourself wishing you weren’t such a noob. Even my old college buddy, who to this day, is still one of the toughest players to shoot with his GoldenEye pro-strafing tactics, could rarely kill me with his AR.

Even in the Campaign, AR is hardly used, at least until the Flood. Most of the time you gotta pick up Covenant weapons and combo it with the M6D. AR was likely only used if you could not find a PP or PR.

Not only that, the AR was replaced in Halo 2, with an even more inferior weapon, leading to one of the more unbalanced games (by Default, no BR starts) in the series - right behind Halo:CE without M6D starts.

Sorry, I get passionate about the older games that shaped my college experience.

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I would have described it more as a beacon to anyone with a utility or power weapon, especially a BR or Sniper on mid to large maps, to say “here you go, a free kill!” :sweat_smile:

No. AR was iconic to Halo CE as much as the Magnum or Energy Sword.

People best remember AR as that 60 round pool which feels good to fire and peels enemies apart at close range and suppresses enemies at ranged.

Every other AR after Halo CE felt like they just added it back in because fans wanted it over the SMG. That is until Infinite which finally made AR good, albeit abit too good for its supposed role in the sandbox.

Just because people just spammed Magnum every Halo CE match didn’t mean AR wasn’t loved and used often. In fact, the AR was much more loved over the Magnum because the first few months after H2 was released was people asking what happened to the AR, and that the BR felt like a poor replacement… that is until they realised the H2 Magnum was absolute balls and the BR replaced that, while AR basically devolved into the SMG.

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In my opinion it’s not that there were more Bars but the fact every AR previously was a worthless weapon except HCE.

I’m loving that the AR is worth spawning with and keeping. I feel as though every wepon in this sandbox is either good on it’s own or when combined with another weapon combo. So much more confidence when picking up a weapon knowing I stand a chance if I don’t have the almighty BR.

Well the Energy Sword was unusable in CE, for one.
And most teenagers more-so enjoyed the balanced gameplay of M6D starts, so they could defend and engage in most fights. I suppose if you were 7, you used the AR a lot in Multiplayer because at that age, you would just have fun pushing buttons. :laughing:

Yes, there was much criticism for removing the AR, but most of the criticism was how weak the SMG was and practically forced you to find a dual-wield to make it any bit of useful. Bungie’s vision was always to start you off with a weak weapon, regardless of which weapon it is (ie Plasma Pistol on Blood Gulch), but the SMG was too weak, which was the main contributing factor for using the AR again in Halo 3. Both CE and Halo 3 were similarly weak, and anyone who tries to say otherwise are just exaggerating the CE’s AR power.

It’s not about the strength, but the role it brought to the sandbox.

Every AR after CE up til Infinite was basically an SMG with slightly further spitting range, like squeezing the nozzle of the hose. In functionality, they had all the weaknesses of an SMG coupled with the reduced Ammo pool from 60 to 32 to 36 again.

The CE AR felt good because it packed alot of ammo in 1 mag so you could sustain that fire before reloading. This indirectly makes it perform better because you could manage a kill before needing to reload while also giving it the ability to pepper enemy holdouts to stop shield recharge. In terms of performance, it’s an excellent all rounder which doesn’t become invalidated by another weapon.

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I do agree that the clip sizes have gotten too small over time.

Yes, this is true. Thanks!

I’d you use the AR in multiplayer halo CE, you are the king of noobs.

CE is pistol/sniper/rockets, with very limited niche use of plasma pistol, plasma rifle, and shotgun. The AR is a great contender for most worthless gun in the sandbox. The pistol outclassed it in everything.

I’d say it’s even less useful than the halo 2 SMG or halo 3 AR.

Laughable, the BR in H3 was nigh perfect. It’s AR was perfect as well. H3 did have issues but those were in reference to lack of utility with weapons like the PR and Spiker. AR should never be good, it’s mean’t to be an easy weapon that lacks direct damage, a balance.

I feel most of the resentment towards the AR being actually usable in Infinite comes from years of being conditioned to having overpowered precision weapons amd the AR being near useless (and yes in H4 and H5 its still near useless because precision weapons still kill faster at close range).

It’s honestly not hard to use a BR/DMR in any Halo game. It had a large mag (can kill more people per mag than most guns), near perfect accuracy (even the bloom of the DMR never caused me to miss shots unless I was trying to use it at extreme ranges meant only for snipers), has basically no recoil, high projectile speed (H3 being the exception but it was still OP), and no penalty to hip fire. On top of this Spartans are big slow targets when compared to other characters in other games.

The precision weapon meta had been a plague on Halo and has finly come to an end. The AR doesn’t need a nerf and the BR doesn’t need a buff. The AR has so many more weapons to compete with at its effective range (medium-short) and the BR finally doesn’t kill faster than it at close range. In previous titles all you did was backpeddle with a BR and most guns just fell at its power. Now a BR doesn’t have the TTK (compared to other guns in their respective games) that it once had so the BR is forced out to medium-long range. This is great as it now fills its roll without infringing on other weapons.

I understand people got used to the BR being the end all be all of relative power and only really having to worry about certain power weapons because the BR allowed you to compete somewhat easily with almost anything barring those said power weapons but Infinite finally let the BR fall into place in the meta instead of sitting on top of it. It is still useful but you shouldn’t be waiting at pads for it as you should be more useful to your team out fighting.

This said I am all for more game modes, if people want BR starts in BTB give them it but please don’t take away my AR starts. I’d also love ranked AR starts as it is a vastly different way of playing the game and I just find the BR boring to use (less so in Infinite because it has some downsides now so it feels fairer to use than in previous titles).

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You clearly missed the point, the AR was weak on purpose, it was always weak on purpose. It’s entire point is ease of use and as such it’s balanced out by lack of damage at range. Halo never had a focus on braindead automatics that killed fast because it was always about the skill potential in precision weapons where the punishment for missing is so much higher. Anyone claiming “Precision weapon meta plague” is just dumb and doesn’t actually understand Halo, automatics were never supposed to be good, they are supposed to be easy.

But they weren’t easy to use due to them having such low range and low damage at that (most other guns killed faster even at close range). I think you kissed the point I was making. Precision weapons in Halo are not hard to use and were OP. It allowed yoy to ignore the Arena Shooter aspects of Halo for the most part as the BR/DMR can easily overpower most maps weapons. I am saying you got used to this and don’t like having to compete against map weapons you have come accustomed to destroying.

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How are they not easy to use??? high ROF, high AA and RRR with a huge reticle and mag size???

Damage isn’t everything and is a faulty basis for designing Halo, the AR in H3 was perfect. The BR being able to beat the AR is perfectly fine thanks to the BR requiring leagues more skill and allowing more misplays and misses. You aren’t ignoring the arena shooter aspects because you are simply trading the easy gun for a harder but better gun, this is perfectly acceptable. The BR isn’t OP either, it only appears that way due to it being the most consistent gun in the game ( H3 )

H3’s AR is actually kinda weak, not so weak it’s trash, but weak enough that you will wanna trade it out asap if possible. The best balanced AR is H4 AR by a longshot, having high killing power in cqc, good shield breaking in mid. H5’s isn’t bad either. Nothing beats CE’s AR for being a solid utility weapon though.

We absolutely do not talk about Reach AR.

Every time I see this kind of claim, I check the person’s service record. And every time, without fail, the person making this claim is not a good player in any ranked Halo mode that uses a precision weapon.

The truth is that it is hard to use precision weapons compared to automatics; you are just not very good at it.

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Playing CE multiplayer with an AR has about as much utility as playing with your eyes closed.

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Which is false. People just parade the Magnum around way too much.
AR in CE is still pretty good as a weapon in close range, and as I’ve mentioned earlier, one of the only weapons that can deal with Banshees easily.

This is partly due to the Banshee in CE taking full damage and translating it to the player in full because Vehicle health wasn’t a thing in MP, so AR was your go to Banshee killing weapon when you’re caught in your base with no hogs.

You can try this with the Magnum, but you will never take down a Banshee more reliably than the AR could without you reloading and letting the Banshee regen their shields a significant amount while you reloaded every 12 shots.