AR, BR, Pistol. How we can make all three greater.

Welcome! This is a thread about a solution to the AR/BR/DMR/ and Pistol balancing. I believe I have some rock solid ideas about it, and I’d love to share them with you, the community.

Since time immemorial…

Actually, since about 2010, there’s been a longstanding debate in the community. “Battle Rifle or Designated Marksman Rifle?”- a question Bungie themselves answered when they removed it from the sandbox with ODST, Reach following. They decided they didn’t enjoy how the game impacted their sandbox, and how various MLG sects would use the BR and nothing but, claiming it was the game’s most balanced weapon. Indeed it was easy to use and had an extremely fast TTK (Time to kill) but that’s precisely what Bungie didn’t like about it. To say it is a bad weapon is patently false. It’s a great weapon. Greater than most, and that’s exactly the problem.

The DMR however, did not have this problem. The DMR was very good, but it was also quite balanced. Yes, capable hands could rip people apart with this bad boy, but it would often lose to much closer range weapons. Granted, I believed it far too useful against the likes of vehicles, concentrated fire that was capable of tearing apart absolutely everything a team aimed on. A problem that the Assault Rifle of the game never had, making the DMR clearly more useful. So the weapon was not perfect, but it was a sandbox improvement overall in terms of balance.

Enter Halo 4.
343i tried very hard to tell us, the fans, “We love you.” and thus, gave us the Battle Rifle back. I admit I was dismayed, but open to see how it went. Then I saw how it performed in Halo 4’s multiplayer and I was dismayed once more. What had once brought imbalance was back in full force, made this bad not by its performance but rather… The fact you could start almost every single mode with it. Loadouts were the bane of Halo 4 alongside specializations and equipment, nobody can deny this I don’t think. 5/7 (Before the meme, even!) rifles you could pick were headshot capable, and yea the angels of balance did weep.

Current Year.

Halo is in a good state in terms of balance, but there are some issues still. I believe various weapons still need work to become truly useful, like the Suppressor could seriously stand to lose its ridiculous wind up time, and the Plasma Pistol’s ROF could certainly be increased. Past that, uh, most of the weapons are just fine if you ask me.

But we constantly must deal with the all-too-accurate Battle Rifle of Warzone. The weapon that constantly and consistently suppresses those poor men who’ve not yet reached Req level three, those sad men who’ve gotten past it and still have no BR, and even sadder are the men who simply do not like the Battle Rifle but must use it to compete, solemnly laying down their beloved MA5Ds for a clearly superior weapon, clutching their assault rifles like a weeping Norman Reedus

What I propose.

With Warzone there is a clear and cut problem. The BR is too effective, and the DMR never comes into play until its too late- BR players never seeing the need to switch- even I am guilty of this, and why should I switch? If I hit the torso of my foe with the DMR after his shields are gone, there is no room for my grievous error to exist. I am already dead, but would likely have not been had I used the Battle Rifle.

So what do we do?

We consolidate the Battle Rifle and Designated Marksman Rifle.
No, really. Hear me out. I am not saying we should make them as individuals better, but these weapons have a unique relationship. They perform roughly the same role, but have completely different fanbases- both of which 343i are absolutely terrified to anger, and rightly so. But 343i should anger us, and introduce us to an old, forgotten fire in our hearts that Bungie introduced so many years ago, but found they too, did not want. Something 343i has flirted with, and introduced its not-quite-as-attractive brother to us as the Halo 4 iteration of the Light Rifle.

The Original Battle Rifle.

The one where when unscoped, you fired burst and when scoped, you fired semi-automatic. But we’ve learned oh so much since then, and we know that a simple fire-rate change would not solve the issue at large. I propose that the BR/DMR are removed, but come back as one. Something more menacing, but not at close range.

Two round burst unscoped, headshot multiplier. Semi-Automatic scoped, headshot capable. This weapon has a tight enough spread and emphasizes precision and marksmanship, rewarding these traits. It cannot be used effectively at close range, and when faced with a CQC type situation, you should switch to your sidearm or other higher-spread, higher rate of fire weapon.

I do not believe in the unscoped headshot. I believe in rewarding skill, and a one-pull-three-possible-headshot-kills weapon that you can achieve this in theory, 12 times with sans reloading, does not reward skill. It rewards reaction time and poor enemy movement. It does punish your foe, but not in any way they are capable of doing anything about, which is not what Halo is all about.

Halo is about Counterplay.

Counterplay is when something is not only fun and rewarding to use, but to go up against. There is absolutely nothing fun about being suppressed at far-too-long distances from a Battle rifle, or row of them. A horde of DMRs is another story however, because you know that many different guns were trained on you that they weren’t looking elsewhere, and all who killed you had most-true aim.

If we introduce a weapon with a two-round burst with a reasonable cyclic rate, and a reasonably high-speed, yet slower-per-pull semi-auto fire, we introduce a weapon that cannot be reliably used at close range in the way the Battle Rifle can, but is absolutely menacing in mid-to-long-range engagements. Not quite a sniper rifle, but not quite an assault rifle. We absolutely need such a balance alteration if we wish to emphasize bigger and better modes like Warzone. Long range and strangely realistic ranges are increasingly common. We cannot ignore this.

I may even entertain slightly increasing the damage and reducing the magazine size to roughly 24-26. The new weapon should have a 5PK (5 pull kill, not five shot kill). hip, and a 4S/PK scope. Leaving the 3SK scope to our increasingly beloved Light Rifle, of which I quite enjoy using. It is an extremely potent power weapon.

The Assault Rifle.

This weapon has undergone a change in every single game it was present in, and has been through the most conflicts in our beloved franchise. Many games did the weapon well, but Halo 5’s Assault Rifle is extremely well balanced. There is a problem, however. The headshot multiplier.

Now I quite believe this multiplier to be a wonderful equalizing force! But there is a problem, and that’s its accuracy in smart scope coupled with headshot-capable automatic fire. It is a wonderful weapon to use, but perhaps too wonderful. There are not many changes I would make to our current beloved, but there is at least one.

Make the Smart Scope fire the weapon in a tighter, three round burst.

No seriously. It does NOT get a headshot capable burst, but it absolutely should receive a select-fire utility activated via smart scope. Burst is more accurate than automatic in Halo, and should be treated as such. Automatic does not get this bonus, so you cannot spray and get a lucky headshot. Burst absolutely does allow for such a damage increase.

CONTINUED IN PART 2.

This fills the old void of the Battle Rifle’s strangely useful CQC capabilities fairly elegantly, if I may so boldly claim. Because now you have two weapons that fill specific niches.

Assault Rifle: Automatic, no headshot. Scoped, three round burst. Headshot multiplier.
Battle Rifle (?): Two round burst, headshot multiplier. Scoped, Headshot capable.

This way, neither weapon intrudes on the other’s territory at all. But now there is a problem. To be the most effective in all situations, you now need both.
But what if we could fix that? What if we could introduce a weapon that complimented both?

Enter the New Magnum.

Every self respecting Halo Player appreciates the magnum for what it is. A potent weapon in all respects. But we have long had… Issues, actually balancing this weapon. Halo 5 is very close, but I believed Reach to be closer.

Magnum Evolved.

The Magnum of Halo:CE was the most beloved weapon in FPS history at the time, I think. 3SK capable, accurate, powerful- a true weapon for true men in the original game… But Bungie felt that it was too powerful. Quite frankly, they were correct, but their solution to nerf it into the ground with the following game’s M6C was simply too far. It became utterly useless outside of the most skilled hands, and even those hands were capable of using far better weapons to far better effect. Halo 3 gave us a compromise, one we could not scope in with, had a shallower magazine but was certainly more powerful, perfectly headshot capable as it had always been, and could be dual wielded.

I believed Halo 3’s magnum to be even worse than 2’s. I believe manybelieved exactly the same thing. We collectively yearned for our beloved M6D, back to be warmed in our sweaty dorito dust covered hands. We would only have to be patient, whether we knew it or not.

We are green, and very, very mean.

Bungie released ODST and with it, they released an incredible Magnum iteration. The M6C/S. A wonderful, long range, suppressed variant of our Halo 2 pistol. The closest thing we had to the M6D of yore, and we all absolutely LOVED it. Nobody disliked ODST’s wonderful little handgun. It even made the ODSTs more badass as a whole…! But Bungie giveth, Bungie taketh… To an extent. Accuracy was decreased, magazine size was decreased… But utility was increased to a point we had not seen since the very
first Halo.

Reaching for the Magnum.

Halo: Reach gave us the best Magnum yet. Not in terms of raw damage or power, but weapon balance! It had a scope, it had power, it had headshots, and best of all, it looked quite like our beloved old pistol! But it did have the catch of having… Well… A shallow magazine. But its extremely fast Rate of Fire allowed it to be a wonderfully potent CQC weapon and really showed a return to both form and relevance for the weapon class. I would have been fine were this to be the pistol we had forever, even if I lamented its puddle-deep magazine capacity, I respected its entirely intentional homage to the wonderful M1911 of centuries past. But where would we go from such perfection?

343 Industries: Guardians (of the Magnum).

343i loved the Magnum and loved us, so they gave us the M6H- an extremely reach-comparable iteration of our beloved handcannon. It was respectable and could be used with the flag. There was very little to complain about, though it wasn’t, in my opinion, anywhere near as pretty as its Reach iteration. However… Halo 5 re-introduced us to the powerhouse Magnum. It gave us the brand new shiny one. The one that we now know as a truly effective and potent tool. But a problem remains. It fills almost exactly the same role as the DMR minus a powerful scope and three extra rounds. It has very little spread, just about the same fire rate, and is perfectly headshot capable. What does this mean for us, and what does it mean for the sandbox?

It means things need changing.

Halo is not a game where two weapons should ever fill the same role. They should counter and compliment each other- perhaps even compete ala the Beam Rifle and Sniper Rifle (even though this might actually be a horribly poor example, given that the Sniper Rifle lacks any real advantages over a patient man with a Beam Rifle.)
The pistol needs an overhaul. Perhaps a minor damage reduction for a 6SK, so it is under the proposed damage/S/PK of the new Battle Rifle. Give it more range than a scoped assault rifle when scoped, keep the headshot capability, keep the twelve-shot magazine or perhaps even reduce it by two, and finally…

Let it be a sidearm.

The BR user wants to use it because it can hip fire very quickly, and it receives a high multiplier to headshots unscoped. It should have an about 65% faster of the current ROF (that of Reach) but keep the current when scoped, and an outright headshot multiplier when scoped as well.

The AR user wants it because it has a slightly longer range than his bursty aimy assault rifle. He wants it because it makes him an even bigger close range threat if his beloved, passionately clutched AR is out of ammo, and he needs a backup. The BR user wants something that can protect him, but keep him lethal at range.

This magnum is the at-arms-length, keep your foes weapon. It is first and foremost a deterrent, but perfectly inbetween the AR and BR I have proposed. Both may use it with great effectiveness, and it gives you- and your foes, that many more options.

Some may even opt to keep their pistol and throw away their AR and BR, finding the sidearm extremely reliable. This is perfectly fine, because they simply won’t be able to do either of those two duties super-effectively. It’ll take half their mag to kill you, and by the time they’ve gotten their shots in or are about to, you’ve probably already killed them.

Addendum.

The Assault Rifle is an extremely potent CQC weapon, but is ineffective at ranges past 75m reliably. It will only ever get a headshot bonus at its best.
The Battle Rifle is an extremely potent Long Range weapon, but is not something you should ever rely on at point blank.
The Magnum is a very good all-rounder, but not nearly as good at its primary-weapon-counterpart’s jobs, but compliments them extremely well.

Make no mistake.

These are the core weapons of Halo as a franchise.

They should be treated as the bar by which all other weapons are balanced, but they cannot be treated as such if they too, are unbalanced.

Thank you for reading this far if you actually took the time. I appreciate it more than my own lengthy character count can describe, quickly approaching 14000.

Keep playing on, Spartans. You’re the best of the best. -CL.
EDIT: Props to TryHardFan for letting me know I should do this!

For the sake of making them different and referrable in the thread, distinct from our current weapons, I’ve re-named these weapons because they are different.

Combat Rifle: Automatic, no headshot. Scoped, three round burst. Headshot multiplier. 36rnd Mag. Current damage. Same SK as Halo 5, no further changes.
Service Rifle: Two round burst, headshot multiplier. Scoped, Headshot capable. 24rnd Mag. (12 pulls as it has always been) 5SK hip, 4SK scope.

Magnum: Semi-auto, hip fire of Reach’s ROF, headshot multiplier. Scoped, current ROF, headshot capable. (10?) 12rnd Mag. 7SK hip-fire**,** 6SK scope,

nerf the ar (by a lot) buff the pistol (only a little)
dont touch BR or DMR

> 2535442377964386;3:
> nerf the ar (by a lot) buff the pistol (only a little)
> dont touch BR or DMR

Well… I suppose reading is optional then.

AR and pistol are great as is… H5BR just needs a better more menacing sound… that is why I always use the H2BR

You need to dumb this down, make it easier for people to read. I started reading till I realized you have 3 posts about it

Holy -Yoink- that was a lot of reading. But I think you make great points. I would be interested to see how this would change game-play.

Removed my comment because I’m working on being a nice person in forums :slight_smile:

> 2533274804947816;8:
> Weapon Balance posts are cancer and should be avoided at all costs.
>
> Halo first and foremost is a fantasy-based FPS. Devs provide us with weapons and it is up to us to figure out how to use these fictional armaments to best our opponents on the battlefield. I could stop there, but no, I must continue. While your post qualifies as nostalgic at best it does not address the true problem in weapon balancing arguments - the user.
>
> There are players out there using the current meta who are downright deadly. Judging by your CSR you may be excluded from this deadly group of slayers. That’s okay, just get good scrub or I’ll be waiting downrange with a BR to light you up.
>
> Remember any video game is about good decision-making. Gaming imitates life; Use the tools provided to win. Is there a spoon or is there no spoon? O_o

Not that K/D is a great metric of skill, but you have pretty much the same K/D as OP. Maybe his lower CSR tier is just because you have played 4 times the amount of games as him.

But while OP’s post attempted to offer valuable input as it pertains to what he see’s as an opportunity to improve the game, yours is an attempt to shame. Well, shame on you.

> 2533274797328974;7:
> Holy -Yoink- that was a lot of reading. But I think you make great points. I would be interested to see how this would change game-play.

Thank you. I mostly want to see the two-round-burst BR come into play, I think it has a ton of potential as a concept.

> 2535458049067969;6:
> You need to dumb this down, make it easier for people to read. I started reading till I realized you have 3 posts about it

Why? If the Halo Community has the patience to wait for should-be-at-launch modes and weapons, and even vehicles, surely they can spare some of that patience for a forum post.

> 2533274804947816;8:
> Weapon Balance posts are cancer and should be avoided at all costs.
>
> Halo first and foremost is a fantasy-based FPS. Devs provide us with weapons and it is up to us to figure out how to use these fictional armaments to best our opponents on the battlefield. I could stop there, but no, I must continue. While your post qualifies as nostalgic at best it does not address the true problem in weapon balancing arguments - the user.
>
> There are players out there using the current meta who are downright deadly. Judging by your CSR you may be excluded from this deadly group of slayers. That’s okay, just get good scrub or I’ll be waiting downrange with a BR to light you up.
>
> Remember any video game is about good decision-making. Gaming imitates life; Use the tools provided to win. Is there a spoon or is there no spoon? O_o

r00d

> 2533274804947816;8:
> Devs provide us with weapons and it is up to us to figure out how to use these fictional armaments to best our opponents on the battlefield. I could stop there, but no, I must continue. While your post qualifies as nostalgic at best it does not address the true problem in weapon balancing arguments - the user.

I hope you’re not serious. Devs provide the weapons on the map and the initial weapon balancing, but that doesn’t mean they’re always correct (H2 smg starts as an example). If people can provide a valid argument for why something should be changed, then it’s perfectly reasonable for them to voice their opinion.

> 2533274797328974;9:
> > 2533274804947816;8:
> > Weapon Balance posts are cancer and should be avoided at all costs.
> >
> > Halo first and foremost is a fantasy-based FPS. Devs provide us with weapons and it is up to us to figure out how to use these fictional armaments to best our opponents on the battlefield. I could stop there, but no, I must continue. While your post qualifies as nostalgic at best it does not address the true problem in weapon balancing arguments - the user.
> >
> > There are players out there using the current meta who are downright deadly. Judging by your CSR you may be excluded from this deadly group of slayers. That’s okay, just get good scrub or I’ll be waiting downrange with a BR to light you up.
> >
> > Remember any video game is about good decision-making. Gaming imitates life; Use the tools provided to win. Is there a spoon or is there no spoon? O_o
>
>
> Not that K/D is a great metric of skill, but you have pretty much the same K/D as OP. Maybe his lower CSR tier is just because you have played 4 times the amount of games as him.
>
> But while OP’s post attempted to offer valuable input as it pertains to what he see’s as an opportunity to improve the game, yours is an attempt to shame. Well, shame on you.

Aw, thank you…!

For those who’ve read, what do you think of the proposed “Service Rifle” I may as well call it? The BR/DMR fusion.

> 2533274797328974;9:
> > 2533274804947816;8:
> > Weapon Balance posts are cancer and should be avoided at all costs.
> >
> > Halo first and foremost is a fantasy-based FPS. Devs provide us with weapons and it is up to us to figure out how to use these fictional armaments to best our opponents on the battlefield. I could stop there, but no, I must continue. While your post qualifies as nostalgic at best it does not address the true problem in weapon balancing arguments - the user.
> >
> > There are players out there using the current meta who are downright deadly. Judging by your CSR you may be excluded from this deadly group of slayers. That’s okay, just get good scrub or I’ll be waiting downrange with a BR to light you up.
> >
> > Remember any video game is about good decision-making. Gaming imitates life; Use the tools provided to win. Is there a spoon or is there no spoon? O_o
>
>
> Not that K/D is a great metric of skill, but you have pretty much the same K/D as OP. Maybe his lower CSR tier is just because you have played 4 times the amount of games as him.
>
> But while OP’s post attempted to offer valuable input as it pertains to what he see’s as an opportunity to improve the game, yours is an attempt to shame. Well, shame on you.

I don’t consider it an attempt to shame. To me, my post is just a direct observation. When I say, “get good scrub” I mean that light-heartedly but I’m dead serious about lighting up scrubs. Let’s not get me started on K/D, k …please and thank you. :slight_smile:

> 2727626560040591;11:
> > 2533274804947816;8:
> > Devs provide us with weapons and it is up to us to figure out how to use these fictional armaments to best our opponents on the battlefield. I could stop there, but no, I must continue. While your post qualifies as nostalgic at best it does not address the true problem in weapon balancing arguments - the user.
>
>
> I hope you’re not serious. Devs provide the weapons on the map and the initial weapon balancing, but that doesn’t mean they’re always correct (H2 smg starts as an example). If people can provide a valid argument for why something should be changed, then it’s perfectly reasonable for them to voice their opinion.

Don’t worry I don’t take forums seriously, just tournaments.

> 2533274804947816;14:
> > 2727626560040591;11:
> > > 2533274804947816;8:
> > > Devs provide us with weapons and it is up to us to figure out how to use these fictional armaments to best our opponents on the battlefield. I could stop there, but no, I must continue. While your post qualifies as nostalgic at best it does not address the true problem in weapon balancing arguments - the user.
> >
> >
> > I hope you’re not serious. Devs provide the weapons on the map and the initial weapon balancing, but that doesn’t mean they’re always correct (H2 smg starts as an example). If people can provide a valid argument for why something should be changed, then it’s perfectly reasonable for them to voice their opinion.
>
>
> Don’t worry I don’t take forums seriously, just tournaments.

Well, you have fun with that.

May I suggest that you recap your changes to the pistol like you did with the AR and BR/DMR? It would mean a lot to the many Waypoint users who don’t want to read through your entire post. In addition to your recaps for the AR and BR (including the pistol too), you should add your suggested shots to kill so people can gain a better understanding of how well the weapon will function.

> 2533274805075298;12:
> > 2533274797328974;9:
> > > 2533274804947816;8:
> > > Weapon Balance posts are cancer and should be avoided at all costs.
> > >
> > > Halo first and foremost is a fantasy-based FPS. Devs provide us with weapons and it is up to us to figure out how to use these fictional armaments to best our opponents on the battlefield. I could stop there, but no, I must continue. While your post qualifies as nostalgic at best it does not address the true problem in weapon balancing arguments - the user.
> > >
> > > There are players out there using the current meta who are downright deadly. Judging by your CSR you may be excluded from this deadly group of slayers. That’s okay, just get good scrub or I’ll be waiting downrange with a BR to light you up.
> > >
> > > Remember any video game is about good decision-making. Gaming imitates life; Use the tools provided to win. Is there a spoon or is there no spoon? O_o
> >
> >
> > Not that K/D is a great metric of skill, but you have pretty much the same K/D as OP. Maybe his lower CSR tier is just because you have played 4 times the amount of games as him.
> >
> > But while OP’s post attempted to offer valuable input as it pertains to what he see’s as an opportunity to improve the game, yours is an attempt to shame. Well, shame on you.
>
>
> Aw, thank you…!
>
> For those who’ve read, what do you think of the proposed “Service Rifle” I may as well call it? The BR/DMR fusion.

I read through it (your posts are extremely well-written and articulate; kudos to you), and I like the idea of this “Service Rifle”. The DMR and the BR do always seem to be stepping on each other’s toes, and the latter is definitely a powerhouse weapon. Fusing the two is a great solution, imo. :slight_smile:

Extremely thoughtful post, OP. I genuinely hope that 343i happens to see it and consider your proposal.

Gees that was a lot reading. I can answer your BR question why its so good a CQC. Unlike H2 to H4 the rate of fire was actually slower then the H5 BR. The Magnum I think is fine but maybe less accuracy. The AR is only accurate when is mid range when you do short controlled bursts which I think is what your saying but wouldn’t mind that if its a optional feature.

> 2533274968707582;16:
> May I suggest that you recap your changes to the pistol like you did with the AR and BR/DMR? It would mean a lot to the many Waypoint users who don’t want to read through your entire post. In addition to your recaps for the AR and BR (including the pistol too), you should add your suggested shots to kill so people can gain a better understanding of how well the weapon will function.

Oh shoot, that’s actually a good idea! My bad! Yeah I’ll get right on that!

> 2533274977530102;17:
> > 2533274805075298;12:
> > > 2533274797328974;9:
> > > > 2533274804947816;8:
> > > > Weapon Balance posts are cancer and should be avoided at all costs.
> > > >
> > > > Halo first and foremost is a fantasy-based FPS. Devs provide us with weapons and it is up to us to figure out how to use these fictional armaments to best our opponents on the battlefield. I could stop there, but no, I must continue. While your post qualifies as nostalgic at best it does not address the true problem in weapon balancing arguments - the user.
> > > >
> > > > There are players out there using the current meta who are downright deadly. Judging by your CSR you may be excluded from this deadly group of slayers. That’s okay, just get good scrub or I’ll be waiting downrange with a BR to light you up.
> > > >
> > > > Remember any video game is about good decision-making. Gaming imitates life; Use the tools provided to win. Is there a spoon or is there no spoon? O_o
> > >
> > >
> > > Not that K/D is a great metric of skill, but you have pretty much the same K/D as OP. Maybe his lower CSR tier is just because you have played 4 times the amount of games as him.
> > >
> > > But while OP’s post attempted to offer valuable input as it pertains to what he see’s as an opportunity to improve the game, yours is an attempt to shame. Well, shame on you.
> >
> >
> > Aw, thank you…!
> >
> > For those who’ve read, what do you think of the proposed “Service Rifle” I may as well call it? The BR/DMR fusion.
>
>
> I read through it (your posts are extremely well-written and articulate; kudos to you), and I like the idea of this “Service Rifle”. The DMR and the BR do always seem to be stepping on each other’s toes, and the latter is definitely a powerhouse weapon. Fusing the two is a great solution, imo. :slight_smile:
>
> Extremely thoughtful post, OP. I genuinely hope that 343i happens to see it and consider your proposal.

(Thank yooouu~!)

I love the DMR as much as I dislike the BR. I will openly admit that I dislike the BR because it’s just a flat out better gun than the pistol or DMR in almost every situation, and its all-shots-can-headshot quality is just… Well damn, like, it doesn’t reward outright skill. That’s what I hate so much about it.

I love Halo very much, and only want the best for it- but I also want the best for its fans- so does 343i, I think. I honestly do. They don’t want to make the DMR and BR camp angry and they probably know about the overlap problem and hell, I’d be afraid to fix it myself as a developer because you can’t fix the problem by removing one, and making one camp angry, and you can’t fix both problems without making both camps angry. Making one that they can agree upon being the better option would be super hard and super risky. It’s perfectly understandable why they haven’t done something like this, but I think with the Light Rifle, they’ve been testing it out.

As for getting 343i go see it, let’s keep this thread alive and up! Things won’t ever change if they never see this.

Agreed, I see this more interesting then the Microsft Conspiracy Thread.