Anybody else feel a bit sold out?

Games Other Halo
1

I’m sure this gets deleted, since it’s another thread critical of 343/MS and that’s been getting the lock/redacted hammer.

I feel like Halo 4 wasn’t made out of passion, but as a business decision. I feel like the love and care Bungie put into previous titles was eschewed for a end-of-life cash grab, and the result is the game we were given.

There’s something to be said about the lack of maps in multiplayer. It’s pretty sparse. It seems that rather than offering initial variety, 343/MS decided to make extra money off of DLC. Granted, the DLC populations have dwindled significantly - and I love the hell out of the Majestic maps - but why couldn’t these be included in the original release?

There are the obvious comparisons to CoD, both in the campaign (big setpieces, epic scope) and in the multiplayer (aim assist, ordinance, kill cam) that seem included as a -Yoink!--for-tat. Like a bunch of folks were placed in a room and left to wonder how they could ‘expand their user base’ or ‘make it more in line with today’s FPS’s’, and we were given a game that had been focus-grouped to death.

There’s also something to be said about the learning curve, or lack thereof. The absence of dual wielding, the focus on single-gun gameplay, nerfing the vehicle play, all seems like it was designed not as an evolution of the series, but as a way to poach the CoD fanbase.

So, rather than being given a complete, fleshed-out game made by folks passionate about the I.P., I was instead given a rushed project from Reach bones designed to make as much money as possible. I feel like copies moved was of more importance to the executive producers than sustained population. It makes me sad that multiplayer is dwindling to the point where I can’t even get a decent game out of DLC maps I bought a month ago.

I loved the story. Really did. Even the Spartan Ops storyline. I dig the thoughtfulness that went into the map design of multiplayer. I just wish as much attention had been paid to the gameplay on both sides.

I’m not going to abandon the game, nor will I hesitate to buy the next one. There are plenty of people that are going to buy the game simply because of what it is. I just hope that business nonsense stays out of it. I want an engaging, challenging game that isn’t trying to make an extra $20-30 on top of what I’ve paid. I want a game that doesn’t shun skill for mass appeal. I want a game that the creative team is passionate about, not because it’s expect of them, but because they genuinely believe in the franchise.

Right now, given the ‘deal with it’ attitude coming from 343 brass, and the rampant locking of critical threads on this forum, it doesn’t feel like they care in the same way Bungie did. There’s a lot of ‘we listened to the community’ talk, yet a lot of community that’s either angry or gone. That we’re out of line for expecting more, and that we’re lucky to have gotten what we did.

I hope someone else gets to read this before this thread gets shot down.

2

I think they did have passion when creating it. Their vision though seemed off. They sought to appease to every community in Halo and it backfired. The common casual gamer will pick up the game, play campaign, and little bit of multiplayer and then move on to the next game (CoD, GoW, Bioshock, etc). It’s the hardcore gamers, casuals and competitives alike, that really run the game. They tried to offer too much to the first group.

Also, in the back of my mind I can’t help but think that Microsoft doesn’t care about the people who play it they just want $$$. They know the name ‘Halo’ will sell. Cost-benefit analysis in their minds.

3

exactly. I felt like Bungie treated me like a fan, and part of a community. i feel like MS/343 treated me as a tally on a sales chart.

4

Halo 4 makes me sad. I don’t have a lot of time for games. Halo was it. It was my game. The game I would play the crap out of until the next chapter. Each game, with the exception of 4, I worked to secure all achievements. Now, I just don’t care anymore. Have I outgrown it? Maybe a little. Whatever was taking up my time, I always had a spot for Halo. An hour here, a half hour there, staying up all night after putting the kids and wife to bed (and paying for it he next day) just to get that fix.

Halo 4 is not my brand of Halo. This game may look like Halo, it may sound like Halo, but it does not play like Halo. I agree with the OP that the passion in design is missing. It is that intangible unique element that made the multiplayer so incredible. If I could, I would crouch around a corner and blast Halo 4 in the gut with a shotty from CE. -Yoink!- the fudge out of this game and move on.

Tears.

5

I wrote a short rant on another thread but this seems like a better place to have it. I feel almost the exact same way as everyone who posted above me. Anyway, I’ll copy and paste what I wrote below. (I also made it prior to reading this thread so I apologize for any repeating ideas)

I really feel like I need to rant (hopefully sensibly and w/ a sense of level headedness) and maybe this is the place to do it. The bashing does need to stop. If anything, your opinion is less likely to be heard if you preface it with insults towards only people capable of making changes. 343 made an incredible campaign experience (my favorite since CE) and supplemented it w/ Spartan Ops. But w/ the multiplayer, they took a tried and tested formula and changed it for, what seems like, the sake of change. I’m sure by this point 343 has gotten enough feedback to know what the community wants. To this day, I don’t know why 343 didn’t use a PUBLIC beta to test this game. Bungie did one w/ Halo 3 despite the fact that they could have sold millions of copies of the game on the name alone. The past few months of Halo has felt like a never ending beta that I keep playing w/ the hope that maybe things will change. Every time I log on, the population numbers are a little bit less than the last time. Just the other day, I was playing w/ some guys I met in matchmaking and they didn’t believe me when I said the TU was already released. Everyone is waiting for this change that may or may not come. Maybe I’m thinking of it all wrong and that old-school “Halo multiplayer” ended with Halo 3. Maybe Reach and Halo 4 is just setting a new direction for the game. I’ll probably stick w/ this game for a bit longer just as I did w/ Reach…if only to give it a fair chance. But at a certain point I just have to face reality and give in to the fact that it won’t be what Halo once meant to me.

6

One thing I particularly miss from Bunge was that, when I got the Halo 2 Limited Ed. and Halo 3 Legendary Ed., They came with extra discs that had behind the scenes and “making of” documentaries. It included things like concepts, artwork, rendering processes, losing sleep, even the voice actors doing their outtakes, Marty doing his magical music compositions, and the team sharing their experiences to the fans.

Those extra discs made me feel like I was a part of Bungie. Like they were talking straight to me, and I was laughing along right with them as they proceeded to conquer their quest for world domination.

What did I get from my brand spanking new pre-ordered limited edition Halo 4 set? Nothing. Well, nothing memorable. Just a few confusing books that consisted of Sarah Palmer’s egotistical ranting, boring journals, and a poster made out of some really fancy material but doesn’t reveal anything much. Oh wait… I got some download codes too! That’s something cool, right?

Nope. No extra discs, same two discs I would have gotten if I got the regular edition game. I felt isolated from 343i. Like I don’t know them. I can’t empathize with them. I can’t laugh with them. I feel like they’re made out of cardboard.

So yes, I am completely sold out. I am sold out and I miss the way Bungie did things. But all good things come to an end, right?

7

Yes, yes I do.

But that is what microsoft does.

I am so very glad that Bungie has dropped the -Yoink!- influence and started fresh with Destiny. I can’t wait for it.

I’ll be happy when 343 can take certain expectations of the core Halo community and abide by them. When they quit spending most of their resources to appeal to a fickle demographic that hasn’t put individual hours upon hours into the Halo franchise. A demographic that hasn’t organized national events and competed for thousands of dollars, created astounding montages, commentated on pro players, generated exposure for Halo games, hosted live stream shows and debates.

When they quit trying to make everything more accessible for new players, separate everyone into skill brackets, and encourage people put time and effort into the game to get better, to be a team player, to work together to get to the top. When they stop trying to draw in people with gimmicks that don’t care that much for Halo anyways. Then I will begin to respect them more.

8

> I think they did have passion when creating it. Their vision though seemed off. They sought to appease to every community in Halo and it backfired. The common casual gamer will pick up the game, play campaign, and little bit of multiplayer and then move on to the next game (CoD, GoW, Bioshock, etc). It’s the hardcore gamers, casuals and competitives alike, that really run the game. They tried to offer too much to the first group.
>
> Also, in the back of my mind I can’t help but think that Microsoft doesn’t care about the people who play it they just want $$$. They know the name ‘Halo’ will sell. Cost-benefit analysis in their minds.

and this is what bothers me. They won’t go back to appealing to the hardcore Halo fanbase like the old days anymore. If they did everyone would win. It doesn’t take the game any worse for casuals. The problem is they started the game out casual and you can’t take a casual game and add hardcore elements to it.

The game at it’s core has to be solid and hardcore which sadly Halo 4 was clearly not built upon.

9

The thing that angers me is how much content was removed from earlier titles.

10

Making games is a passion. Not just halo. I don’t know one legit company that makes JUST to make money besides zynga. EA doesn’t count because they don’t make games. 343 I believe spent a lot of time making this game work not so you can complain all day about it. IT’S NOT ALL ABOUT MULTIPLAYER

11

I agree. I loved Halo 4, and multiplayer is still fun, but it really does feel like a “how can we attract the CoD fan base” situation and that really disappointed me. Every game nowadays is doing this and selling out and to me it seems pathetic, trying to copy other games just to get the game’s players interested never works because the other games already exist for them.

All it does is pushes the core community away and leaves a jumbled mess of people with conflicting interests in a free-for-all match for the future of Halo, and only one of them is going to win- effectively killing a community with every release.

I understand what 343i tried to do, they were afraid that only core Halo players will play the game now that Bungie is out, but what they should have done is cater to that community and build up a larger Halo community from the ground up. Would less people buy the game? Maybe at first, but strengthening the core allows the community to add layers upon layers on top of itself without imploding into the mess we have now.

Halo 4 would have had less sales, but a much more dedicated fan base and a much larger online population on the long term- because casuals don’t restrict themselves just to Halo, they move on even if its the best game they ever played because they aren’t the core of the community. And not just the online population would have been better, Halo 5’s sales would have been better and then Halo 6 and whatever games they release and Halo would potentially be back as the biggest thing on Xbox.

But now its too late. Now the community is a mess- everyone has there own opinions about what should be done and most of them will be disappointed no matter what 343i does in Halo 5. The best thing to do now would be to build two games in one (ala Halo 3 Ranked and Social) to the multiplayer to cater to both fan bases and to buy some time to understand what Halo is to them so they can rebuild the community and fix this mess before Halo will slip between their fingers.

PS- Keep in mind that I am mainly in for the story, I just hate seeing all the hate threads and sometimes I can’t help but agree with them. Multiplayer is a CoD sellout and no manner of excuses will make me change my mind.

12

> exactly. I felt like Bungie treated me like a fan, and part of a community. i feel like MS/343 treated me as a tally on a sales chart.

This

13

I really doubt it was 343 who pushed out the game prematurely.

And I think those at Bungie who stayed with Halo were probably the ones who cared about it the most.

14

> exactly. I felt like Bungie treated me like a fan, and part of a community. i feel like MS/343 treated me as a tally on a sales chart.

That feel… I miss it so.

15

I’m a Halo fan. As such I support the franchise in good times and bad. A small video game studio (and despite the association with MS, that’s what 343 is) is going to have to find its way through a few mistakes.

As such there are a few things in H4 that I feel were either UX’d to death or focus group’d into blandness. Maybe a bit too much focus on new things instead of refining the old.

But do I feel sold out? Nope. I’m happy to go along for the ride and try new things, even if they aren’t successful. My feedback will make the Halo 5 all the better.

But you said it… business decisions. First rule of business is you don’t throw good money after bad money. I know that 343 has learned a lot based on what worked and what didn’t in Halo 4.

We won’t reap all the benefits until Halo 5, but I totally trust that 343 has payed very close attention to what worked, what didn’t, and how the entire community reacted to each change.

16

No, Reach was a sell-out. Bungie came out and said they were binded by contract to produce another Halo game. You could tell there heart wasn’t in it, and the game suffered MASSIVELY because of it.

343 had an awful mess to clean up, and did a great job. You can tell the passion is there, and while there was a few missteps, they seem to be headed in the right direction.

I have plenty of hope for halo 5 and i’m sure 343 learned a lot from their FIRST game. The future is bright.

17

> No, Reach was a sell-out. Bungie came out and said they were binded by contract to produce another Halo game. You could tell there heart wasn’t in it, and the game suffered MASSIVELY because of it.
>
> 343 had an awful mess to clean up, and did a great job. You can tell the passion is there, and while there was a few missteps, they seem to be headed in the right direction.
>
> I have plenty of hope for halo 5 and i’m sure 343 learned a lot from their FIRST game. The future is bright.

Reach was made because of the contract, but Halo 4’s new MP experience was made because every game out there is copying CoD in hopes to get CoD players’ attention (because they are such a massive crowd). 343i knew full well that the core Halo community was against those changes but they did it anyway. Why? Because they were afraid that their game will be a flop if the core Halo players are the only ones who play it. Which is basically for the money. Though I am sure Microsoft also had a hand in it- they might have actually demanded it- it still doesn’t change the fact that Halo 4 sold out just like any other (MP) game out there.

I agree that their next game will be much better- they are a huge team now and they have the next gen Xbox to work with- but it will never be the same. You can count on it.

18

Personally I disagree with you OP. But mostly because.
#1 I know 343i is still a new company, and this is it’s first game, they did better than what some thought they would.
#2 I’m not expecting the perfect Halo game that isn’t full of bugs, glitches, some gameplay issues, and general things that I don’t agree with. Hell, I’d be lying my butt off if I said any Halo game was the perfect Halo game.
#3 I’m not a MP die hard, I don’t freak out when MP doesn’t meet my set of requirements. Hell, if I was, ALL Xbox Halo games would be in the same boat you all put Halo 4 and Halo Reach.

Most of the issues that people are complaining about are MP related, aren’t game breaking, and in some cases, shouldn’t even be as big as a problem that everyone makes them out to be.

Even tho I’m a PC gamer, I feel that 343i is listening to the community a little more than what Bungie did. Yeah you all praise Bungie, but yet, Bungie gave us Reach, didn’t release any title updates for it, and their games had just as many issues as Halo 4, and sometimes as much hate for them. So far 343i is acting like a better developer than Bungie, 343i has at least given us a few title updates, and in this last one made it so they can adjust the weapon balance with needing a title update, which mean they can do a lot better job at balancing the weapons.

Granted you guys feel left out in the rain because your idea of a perfect MP isn’t in Halo 4, I get it, and I get that you guys don’t always understand that everyone has their own opinion on what MP should be like.

19

> snip

The problem is not that Halo 4’s MP doesn’t meet our standards, it’s that it doesn’t meet the standards set by previous Halo games. The original trilogy, and the pinnacle of Halo’s success, were strongly defined by even and fair games where everyone starts equally and no one gets rewarded for how good or bad he was, only for his skill. 343i could have given many good and controversial changes to Halo’s MP with Halo 4 without flipping off “classic Halo MP” (though I would honestly call it just “Halo MP”) and leaving it behind along with the competitive community.

I don’t know why I’m fighting for this so hard now, I was always an avid 343i defender, but now I just feel like avoiding the situation will make me a hypocrite. I play MP as extra Halo alongside the main course which would be the Campaign (and I guess Spartan Ops as well, now that it’s a thing) and that was actually well done in Halo 4. But the MP, as much fun as I’m having with it, is just not Halo MP to me. Though IMO Reach was worse.

20

The game had fewer maps than the last one with month 1 DLC. It was so poorly tested that objects have incorrect names and shapes in the forge. Halo 4 was STRICTLY a cash grab.