Any info on Halo 5 objective Multiplayer?

Hello All,

I am just wondering if there have been any reveals about the Halo 5 multiplayer. I’m hoping it will return to the former greatness before the last installment…

I am one of the few who enjoy large objective based games, something Halo had always been the unrivaled champ at. However the last installment either left out or ruined the best objective game types.

Big Team Battle is completely gone, and they also removed Assault gametypes… You can’t even do a custom assault game. Halo 4 also ruined CTF. The fact that you automatically pick up the flag and can’t drop it to use your weapons was ridiculous, that and the flag being a waypoint to the enemy team while it was in your hands ruined it for me. I really miss the days when your flag was taken, and everybody is freaking out “WHERE IN THE F*CK IS THE FLAG”!

Just wondering how everybody else feels about the objective games in 4, so I added a poll.

Here you can find out why I liked Halo 4’s CTF:
https://forums.halowaypoint.com/yaf_postst252749_So-about-CTF.aspx

I think Halo 4 had enough objective gametypes to work with, they just took them out of matchmaking for the most part, which was one of the most ridiculously limited decisions. Remember when Oddball, KotH, Extraction, Team Regicide, and Dominion each had their own playlists? You could play what you wanted, when you wanted. That was cool. Nowadays I’m just restricted to Slayer variants with a side of CTF. Gets boring after a while.

Here’s my idea for the playlist setup:
•Team Slayer (4v4 Slayer)
•Big Team Battle (8v8 Slayer and CTF)
•Free For All (8-player Slayer, King of the Hill, and Oddball)
•Capture the Flag (4v4 CTF, with flagnum and no flag drops for reasons I’ve already discussed in the post I linked, also add instant flag returns by touch)
•Assault (4v4 Assault with ball-throwing)
•Oddball (4v4 Oddball, with ball-throwing for reasons I’ve already discussed in the post I linked, also add a score penalty for tossing out of bounds)
•King of the Hill (4v4 KotH, for the last 15 seconds of a hill, put a waypoint above the next hill location to compensate for the randomness)
•Domination (4v4, think Unreal Tournament, I’d personally prefer this over territories)
•VIP (4v4 VIP)
•Team Doubles (2v2 Slayer, CTF, and King of the Hill)
•Multi Team (3v3v3v3 Slayer, King of the Hill, and Oddball)
•Flood (10-player Flood, Halo-4 style)
•Snipers (4v4 Snipers)
•SWAT (4v4 SWAT Slayer with a side of objective, DMRs only because it takes more skill for SWAT)
•Grifball (4v4 Grifball)
•Team Throwdown

I love objective game types. So much more than Slayer. I hope they bring back objective 4v4 game playlist, and not split the playlist up with individual ctf, koh, bomb, playlists. Just have all objective games lumped into 1 glorious playlist!

I also love Doubles, and I’m ok if that playlist has both slayer & objective in the same list, however in Halo 4 the only way you get a Doubles objective game type is if the other team doesn’t vote and you get the last vote in for an objective game type. If they go with a voting system and not single veto then please have the top option be a rotating selection from slayer to objective so the chances of playing a slayer or objective game is fair.

> Remember when Oddball, KotH, Extraction, Team Regicide, and Dominion each had their own playlists? You could play what you wanted, when you wanted. That was cool.

^ No not cool. All those are Objective game types, don’t split the population, lump all those into 1 amazing playlist. Splitting all those up left some of those playlist with low populations thus leading to their enviable removal. Keep all things objective into 1 playlist.

> > Remember when Oddball, KotH, Extraction, Team Regicide, and Dominion each had their own playlists? You could play what you wanted, when you wanted. That was cool.
>
> ^ No not cool. All those are Objective game types, don’t split the population, lump all those into 1 amazing playlist. Splitting all those up left some of those playlist with low populations thus leading to their enviable removal. Keep all things objective into 1 playlist.

That isn’t fair. Then why not condense all slayer variants into 1 playlist? See, that’s stupid. If I want to play Oddball, I should be able to go and play Oddball. If I want to play King of the Hill, I should be able to go and play King of the Hill. When all these gametypes are condensed into one playlist, it removes the freedom of letting people play what they want to play, I shouldn’t have to play a long series of matches in hopes that the group will vote Oddball eventually, I should simply be able to play Oddball when I want, with nothing between me and my preferred gametype. It’s like if you wanted to play SWAT, but there would be a bunch of other non-SWAT gametypes in between you and the gametype you want to play. That’s stupid. I should be able to play what I want, when I want, without any hassle, especially if it’s one of the core game modes built into the game. Give players freedom for once. If there can be a multitude of slayer playlists, there can be a multitude of objective playlists.

If the game is good enough to where it can sustain a large population, around 100,000 total players,I really see no problem.

> Here you can find out why I liked Halo 4’s CTF:
> https://forums.halowaypoint.com/yaf_postst252749_So-about-CTF.aspx

I checked this out, and the main argument against this is flag juggling, which I always considered a non-issue. For one in all past installments if you dropped the flag it would appear as a waypoint to everyone including enemies, so sure you might be able to move slightly faster but smart enemies who didn’t know where you were are going to be coming after you. I really don’t see flag dribbling as an issue, it has it’s own repercussions so maybe you can elaborate more on the problem it creates? It’s not like it’s Halo 2 where you can bounce it great distances.

My main problems with CTF in Halo 4 was the flag ALWAYS being a waypoint for the enemy team. I believe the team should have to use teamwork and communication to determine and pursue the flag. This also screws over the guy who just stole the flag, as they can’t try to be stealthy and crawl back, or even wait at the flag spawn for unsuspecting enemies to come looking only to get whacked.

Then there is the automatically picking up the flag and not being able to drop it. Say your ally dropped the flag on a rocket launcher, you won’t be able pick it up because you are forced to take the flag. Or if you have a rocket launcher and the flag, you cant drop it to kill your pursuers in the simplest way possible. It just feels wrong because it is forcing players to do something they obviously wouldn’t do.

Also one more point on flag juggling. In Halo Reach flag throwing had a specific purpose in a few situations. You could throw the flag up to your ally on top of the blood gulch base, it would only work if you and your ally were ready and waiting, but it was a great strategy as if you utilized teamwork properly you could take the flag and be through the teleporter in a few seconds. Good tactics like this aren’t as possible in Halo 4.

I don’t care for much of what Halo 4 did to normal gametypes and at the very least previous gametypes must return along with the original variants of gamemodes like CTF.

They don’t necessarily have to replace the new versions entirely, but there should be separate variants. We could easily have ‘normal’ CTF that functions as it did in past games and have ‘Escort’ CTF(aka Halo 4 style).

For playlists I think some consolidation is necessary to keep solid populations, however stuffing all objectives into one playlist isn’t an Ideal solution so with that in mind.
Standard

Team Slayer: 4v4(Team Slayer, Slayer Pro[IE no radar], Team snipers(rare), maybe Regicide)

Team Obj(Capture): 4v4(CTF, Escort CTF, Stockpile, One-Flag, Assault(one bomb), Multi Bomb, Neutral bomb, Ricochet)

Team Obj(Control): 4v4(HOTH, Crazy King, Oddball(Classic style), Extraction(2 Plot), 3 Plots(Territories), Land Grab(Territories))

Team Doubles: 2v2(Team Slayer, Extraction(1 Plot), CTF(maybe), HOTH, perhaps others)

FFA: 8 player(Slayer, HOTH, Crazy King, Headhunter, Regicide, Oddball(H4 style)

BTB: 8v8(BT Slayer, CTF, Escort CTF, Multi Flag, One Flag, Assualt, Multi Bomb, Extraction(3 Plot))

Invasion: 8v8(Invasion, Invasion Slayer, Dominion)

Multi Team: size up for debate(Team Slayer, HOTH(+Crazy King), Oddball(H4 style), Regicide, Headhunter)

Squad Battle: 6v6(Team Slayer, CTF, One Flag, Assault, multi bomb, extraction(2 plot), Territories(variants), VIP)

SWAT(SWAT, SWAgnums, ShWATguns, SpeedFlag, perhaps some counterstrike style one-life gametype?)

Community

‘MLG’(Insert competitivve settings here)

Action Sack(Full of fun silly stuff)

Infection(Flood, old style infection and variants)

Grifball(whatever makes you happy)

Rotational(DLC and other gametype highlights)

I think that covers just about everyone with minimal clutter

> > Here you can find out why I liked Halo 4’s CTF:
> > https://forums.halowaypoint.com/yaf_postst252749_So-about-CTF.aspx
>
> I checked this out, and the main argument against this is flag juggling, which I always considered a non-issue. For one in all past installments if you dropped the flag it would appear as a waypoint to everyone including enemies, so sure you might be able to move slightly faster but smart enemies who didn’t know where you were are going to be coming after you. I really don’t see flag dribbling as an issue, it has it’s own repercussions so maybe you can elaborate more on the problem it creates? It’s not like it’s Halo 2 where you can bounce it great distances.
>
> My main problems with CTF in Halo 4 was the flag ALWAYS being a waypoint for the enemy team. I believe the team should have to use teamwork and communication to determine and pursue the flag. This also screws over the guy who just stole the flag, as they can’t try to be stealthy and crawl back, or even wait at the flag spawn for unsuspecting enemies to come looking only to get whacked.
>
> Then there is the automatically picking up the flag and not being able to drop it. Say your ally dropped the flag on a rocket launcher, you won’t be able pick it up because you are forced to take the flag. Or if you have a rocket launcher and the flag, you cant drop it to kill your pursuers in the simplest way possible. It just feels wrong because it is forcing players to do something they obviously wouldn’t do.

I’m fairly neutral when it comes to waypoints. I think the problem in taking them out lies in the fact that you would never be able to find the flag carrier, because maps aren’t just point A to point B, there are so many routes you can take.

I don’t support auto pickup, that’s just stupid. Flag dropping, however, I don’t really like too much either. I like it better when teammates have to escort their flag carrier back to their base. The post further goes into my reasoning as to why I prefer it this way, in case you are wondering.

> Also one more point on flag juggling. In Halo Reach flag throwing had a specific purpose in a few situations. You could throw the flag up to your ally on top of the blood gulch base, it would only work if you and your ally were ready and waiting, but it was a great strategy as if you utilized teamwork properly you could take the flag and be through the teleporter in a few seconds. Good tactics like this aren’t as possible in Halo 4.

But Oddball already has throwing now, and personally I think it fits better, because Oddball is essentially Halo’s version of Keep Away, so being able to toss it around like that seems to work better with the gametype. When you’re carrying the Flag in CTF, it’s just a quick hike back to your base, it’s not like you have to constantly evade the team for a long duration of time. Flag Juggling only seems to make the game too easy for that aspect. You only have a short length to travel, why are you allowed to constantly throw the flag around?

If they brought dropping/juggling back to CTF after adding it to Oddball, it would also feel somewhat redundant to include both the gametypes when they have similar mechanics. They could always take throwing out of Oddball for H5, but personally I feel that the ball throwing works better for Oddball than CTF.

In it’s current state I like how the two gametypes are for the most part. They require different skillsets. Oddball is about positioning, timing, and coordination to be able to pass the ball to your teammates. CTF is about assaulting the enemy’s base and protecting the flag carrier, while defending your own flag. Since both the gametypes require their own skillsets, they are both more unique from one another, and this adds extra variety within the core multiplayer.

I didn’t even know anyone who liked classic Oddball, whether they were casual or hardcore gamers, now everyone is asking for it back. It’s like what happened with the Flood. Everyone wanted them out, but now everyone is asking 343i to bring them back (except for me).

> I don’t care for much of what Halo 4 did to normal gametypes and at the very least previous gametypes must return along with the original variants of gamemodes like CTF.
>
> They don’t necessarily have to replace the new versions entirely, but there should be separate variants. We could easily have ‘normal’ CTF that functions as it did in past games and have ‘Escort’ CTF(aka Halo 4 style).
>
> For playlists I think some consolidation is necessary to keep solid populations, however stuffing all objectives into one playlist isn’t an Ideal solution so with that in mind.
> Standard
>
>
>
> Team Slayer: 4v4(Team Slayer, Slayer Pro[IE no radar], Team snipers(rare), maybe Regicide)
>
> Team Obj(Capture): 4v4(CTF, Escort CTF, Stockpile, One-Flag, Assault(one bomb), Multi Bomb, Neutral bomb, Ricochet)
>
> Team Obj(Control): 4v4(HOTH, Crazy King, Oddball(Classic style), Extraction(2 Plot), 3 Plots(Territories), Land Grab(Territories))
>
> Team Doubles: 2v2(Team Slayer, Extraction(1 Plot), CTF(maybe), HOTH, perhaps others)
>
> FFA: 8 player(Slayer, HOTH, Crazy King, Headhunter, Regicide, Oddball(H4 style)
>
> BTB: 8v8(BT Slayer, CTF, Escort CTF, Multi Flag, One Flag, Assualt, Multi Bomb, Extraction(3 Plot))
>
> Invasion: 8v8(Invasion, Invasion Slayer, Dominion)
>
> Multi Team: size up for debate(Team Slayer, HOTH(+Crazy King), Oddball(H4 style), Regicide, Headhunter)
>
> Squad Battle: 6v6(Team Slayer, CTF, One Flag, Assault, multi bomb, extraction(2 plot), Territories(variants), VIP)
>
> SWAT(SWAT, SWAgnums, ShWATguns, SpeedFlag, perhaps some counterstrike style one-life gametype?)
>

>
> Community
>
>
>
> ‘MLG’(Insert competitivve settings here)
>
> Action Sack(Full of fun silly stuff)
>
> Infection(Flood, old style infection and variants)
>
> Grifball(whatever makes you happy)
>
> Rotational(DLC and other gametype highlights)
>

>
> I think that covers just about everyone with minimal clutter

Overall I like the way you set it up here. but here are all of my tiny little criticisms:
•I find H4 CTF and Oddball way better than classic CTF and Oddball. As long as auto-pickup for CTF is taken out, flag returns are made instantaneous (by touch), and they implemented a score penalty for tossing the ball out of bounds. I don’t see any problem with H4 CTF/Oddball. I personally prefer these iterations over their classic counterparts.
•KOTH needs to be reworked a bit. I feel they should make it so when the current hill has 15 seconds remaining, a waypoint would appear over its next location. Do they have that already? I forgot. But yeah, that should implemented into the core settings to help compensate for the randomness. Isn’t Crazy King where you get a boost in damage resistance when you’re inside the hill? I feel that should be FFA only. With Teams you already have other players to back you up so there’s no need for that as long as you have proper teamwork. It works better with FFA because there you’re a lone wolf and when you’re in the hill, you have people ganging up on you from all sides with no one to cover you, so the boost in damage resistance is kind of needed there.
•Squad Battle seems kind of redundant.
•This is just a nitpick, but I always disliked the idea of an MLG playlist. How come it has to be tied to a certain league? It also seems ridiculous because no other leagues get their own playlist, but for some reason MLG gets special treatment and I don’t understand why. I’d prefer it if they just gave some neutral name that didn’t tie it to a league, like “Team Throwdown”, “Team Arena”, “Cage Match”, or “League Play”.
•What about an elimination-style mode like Quake’s Clan Arena. Give players 500% damage resistance, no shield recharge, have all (balanced) weapons spawn at each team’s base (nothing to fight for, each team gets identical equipment), and put it on one-life only. My community often does this and we find it pretty fun, don’t know about you guys though.
•Invasion/Dominion should stay 6v6. Dominion has 3 bases, and with 6 players you can divide your team evenly between them. 8 players is not divisible by 3. It would also feel redundant if it was 8v8, because we already have BTB for matches of that scale.
•BTB, Invasion, Multi-Team, and SWAT should be moved to Community (they’re a bit too casual to be considered as standard).
•Add Team Snipers to Standard.
•Add a 1v1 playlist to Standard.
•Move MLG or whatever we’re gonna call it over to Standard.

> > Remember when Oddball, KotH, Extraction, Team Regicide, and Dominion each had their own playlists? You could play what you wanted, when you wanted. That was cool.
>
> ^ No not cool. All those are Objective game types, don’t split the population, lump all those into 1 amazing playlist. Splitting all those up left some of those playlist with low populations thus leading to their enviable removal. Keep all things objective into 1 playlist.

I believe Xbox One’s matchmaking system will allow you to pick the game you want to play and you will just have to wait for enough players to have a match. Xbox One allows you to do other stuff while you’re waiting. It’s pretty clear that players that really, really want to play a particular game are willing to wait for enough equally skilled players. We’ll probably find out how long is too long.

> snip

A few things
1.)At the very least I think both original and Halo 4 style CTF/Oddball should be options in general MM. I understand that you will prefer the newer style, but plenty of people don’t. Variety is the spice of life as they say, which is why I included both.

Halo 4 Oddball has issues in a 2 team situation, but I think it fits a lot better in multi team and FFA which is why I included it in those gamemodes.

2.)I was confusing crazy king for something else, but the only difference is that it is the FFA variant(lower score limit to win). So yes it would remain FFA only(or multi team)

3.)Squad Battle is somewhat redundant and if invasion was 6v6 than it would probably be best left to a rotational list.

4.)I agree about MLG title hence the single quotes ‘’. Basically it is just a slot for the hardcore, tournament style playlist whoever is running it, if anyone. More on this in a bit.

5.)I included an elimination style gamemode in SWAT because I think that would be the ideal place for it since it is already an atypical gamemode that would work well with a round based, elimination gametype.

6.)The community list isn’t a ‘casual’ vs ‘competitive’ divide like social/ranked was in Halo 3. It simply a separate section for gametypes heavily reliant on community for maps and settings. Grifball and Infection are gametypes heavily reliant on user created content. One reason I preferred Halo 3 infection is because the maps used were altered to better suit the atmosphere and gameplay, as I find playing flood/infection on unaltered maps rather boring. Likewise the hardcore playlists in the past are heavily reliant on community feedback.

The section is molded by the community while the standard section is mostly 343’s domain. Though I could see SWAT moving to that section if more SWAT specific forge maps start to pop up.

7.)I enjoy snipers from time to time, but to reduce clutter(at least at first) I think it would be better off as a rare gametype and rotational playlist. If Halo 5 has a great, stable population than I think snipers could get a more permanent spot.

8.)1v1 playlists are very tricky to manage and are easily exploited for a number of different reasons. I remember when they tried it back in MW2 and it did not go very well. 1v1s are best left to custom games.

> and they implemented a score penalty for tossing the ball out of bounds.
>
> •This is just a nitpick, but I always disliked the idea of an MLG playlist. How come it has to be tied to a certain league? It also seems ridiculous because no other leagues get their own playlist, but for some reason MLG gets special treatment and I don’t understand why. I’d prefer it if they just gave some neutral name that didn’t tie it to a league, like “Team Throwdown”, “Team Arena”, “Cage Match”, or “League Play”.

Playing the oddball (or tossing out of bounds as you call it) is a mechanic that’s been used in oddball throughout halo and it adds a way bigger skill gap into the gametype and makes it more competitive. If 343 placed a penalty on playing the ball that would pretty much kill the gametype just as much as being able to throw the oddball did.

Also to refer to you argument that flag juggling would “blur the line between oddball and CTF”, Capture the flag and oddball are pretty distinct gametypes and really never felt remotely similar in any of the other halo games, so no, it wouldn’t blur the line at all.

Now to address the mlg thing, the reason it was called mlg is because it used the exact settings, gametypes and maps that mlg used for their events and the playlist was updated regularly with each new update to the mlg settings. The reason mlg “gets special treatment” as you say is because no other pro gaming league is even close to as big as mlg was for halo back when halo was still on the circuit.

most of your suggestions (like no flag dropping or juggling, flagnum, no playing the oddball) hinder competitive play entirely and simplify or “noob-ify” the game way to much. It shows that you don’t really play any competitive settings, and that’s totally fine but you should try and see it from both points of view. I play casual and competitive and honestly even in casual play not being able to drop the flag was stupid.

> > > Remember when Oddball, KotH, Extraction, Team Regicide, and Dominion each had their own playlists? You could play what you wanted, when you wanted. That was cool.
> >
> > ^ No not cool. All those are Objective game types, don’t split the population, lump all those into 1 amazing playlist. Splitting all those up left some of those playlist with low populations thus leading to their enviable removal. Keep all things objective into 1 playlist.
>
> That isn’t fair. Then why not condense all slayer variants into 1 playlist? See, that’s stupid.
> It’s like if you wanted to play SWAT, but there would be a bunch of other non-SWAT gametypes in between you and the gametype you want to play. That’s stupid. I should be able to play what I want, when I want, without any hassle

GNC Green, damn ouch bro. I just liked your post in the JIP thread and totally agreed with your post there. And then I just read this and our opinions are completely different.
But back to this topic, I’d be ok with all Slayer variants put into 1 playlist, slayer, sniper, swat, & others - just lump them all into one Slayer playlist. Choices and variety can go to far and thin out the community to where we loose playlist completely. Keep the playlist choices simple, less is more.

Objective things Halo 4 got right:

-Dominion, KOTH variants, CTF

Objective things prior Halos did better:

-Headhunter
-Invasion
-Assault variants
-Territories
-Race variants
-CTF

How can CTF be on both lists? Well, I much prefer the speed of Halo 4 CTF. I even like the instant pickup. I dislike how it’s on every playlist, even the slayer ones (BTB, Action Sack). And I feel like there were too many variants… would rather they spread the love to other missing gametypes instead.

> > and they implemented a score penalty for tossing the ball out of bounds.
> >
> > •This is just a nitpick, but I always disliked the idea of an MLG playlist. How come it has to be tied to a certain league? It also seems ridiculous because no other leagues get their own playlist, but for some reason MLG gets special treatment and I don’t understand why. I’d prefer it if they just gave some neutral name that didn’t tie it to a league, like “Team Throwdown”, “Team Arena”, “Cage Match”, or “League Play”.
>
> Playing the oddball (or tossing out of bounds as you call it) is a mechanic that’s been used in oddball throughout halo and it adds a way bigger skill gap into the gametype and makes it more competitive. If 343 placed a penalty on playing the ball that would pretty much kill the gametype just as much as being able to throw the oddball did.
>
> Also to refer to you argument that flag juggling would “blur the line between oddball and CTF”, Capture the flag and oddball are pretty distinct gametypes and really never felt remotely similar in any of the other halo games, so no, it wouldn’t blur the line at all.
>
> Now to address the mlg thing, the reason it was called mlg is because it used the exact settings, gametypes and maps that mlg used for their events and the playlist was updated regularly with each new update to the mlg settings. The reason mlg “gets special treatment” as you say is because no other pro gaming league is even close to as big as mlg was for halo back when halo was still on the circuit.
>
> most of your suggestions (like no flag dropping or juggling, flagnum, no playing the oddball) hinder competitive play entirely and simplify or “noob-ify” the game way to much. It shows that you don’t really play any competitive settings, and that’s totally fine but you should try and see it from both points of view. I play casual and competitive and honestly even in casual play not being able to drop the flag was stupid.

Throwing destroyed the game? I disagree. Oddball was essentially just Halo’s version of Keep Away. Being able to throw the ball added a bit more skill to the game. You would have to position yourself at the right angle, time your throw so the player catches it and the enemy doesn’t intercept it, and it required better communication and coordination between team members.

If they make it so you can throw the objective in both Capture the Flag AND Oddball, yes the gametypes will begin to feel too similar.

Being able to drop the flag and pull out a good weapon destroys the “flag carrier being helpless” aspect in the game. With the way it’s set in Halo 4, you actually have to escort the flag carrier across the terrain, way more than you ever had to, as well as make sure that you protect the person carrying the flag, because he can’t whip out a BR, Shotgun, Rocket Launcher, or any good weapon to defend himself in the case of an ambush. He only has a pistol to suppress already weakened enemies, and it’s not a good choice for combat (you have to be extremely lucky to kill at least one person with full shields, when you have the flagnum). This is equally as skillful as classic CTF.

I find it the other way. Being able to throw the ball off a cliff to reset it is way more noobish. It serves as nothing more but an easy cheap shot when your in danger.

Just because MLG is one of the biggest doesn’t mean its the best. Why not be fair to the other gaming leagues and give each one its own playlist then? Or why not just make a neutral playlist that’s not tied to any league? Personally I don’t even like MLG these days. I was obsessed with it all throughout it’s Halo 1 and Halo 2 run, but after that my love for MLG started to faulter. Nowadays I personally feel that the European leagues are way better than their American counterparts, at least for the ones that I’ve seen.

I am not a casual player. I hate mostly everything about Halo 4’s multiplayer. Most of the changes to Capture the Flag and Oddball, however, I do agree with. I am a very competitive gamer at heart, and I often do play competitive settings. I play MLG settings, and I play Promod in Halo 4. I am nowhere near a casual gamer, do not put me down because of a simple disagreement. It’s not like I’m saying “This is good for the game because I say it is.” I’m actually giving good reasons to back up what I am saying, from a competitive standpoint. I am a competitive gamer, not a casual one, so do not ever disrespect me in such a manner. Are we understood?

> I’m fairly neutral when it comes to waypoints. I think the problem in taking them out lies in the fact that you would never be able to find the flag carrier, because maps aren’t just point A to point B, there are so many routes you can take.

Yes that is the idea, if you were able to get there flag now they have to find you. Showing up as a waypoint for everybody to see takes away one of the funnest things about stealing the flag. You get to hide around corners for the searchers coming after you. Sure there are infinite number of routes but all the enemies need to do is beat the flag guy to the capture point, then they could wait. This forces communication within the team.

> I don’t support auto pickup, that’s just stupid. Flag dropping, however, I don’t really like too much either. I like it better when teammates have to escort their flag carrier back to their base. The post further goes into my reasoning as to why I prefer it this way, in case you are wondering.

Allies should still have to escort or cover the flag guy back to the base, the difference now is you aren’t completely screwed if you have the flag and are alone. You can drop it and try to fight off a single opponent, then pick it back up and continue. Instead of dying only because you can’t pull out the best weapon for the situation.

> But Oddball already has throwing now, and personally I think it fits better, because Oddball is essentially Halo’s version of Keep Away, so being able to toss it around like that seems to work better with the gametype. When you’re carrying the Flag in CTF, it’s just a quick hike back to your base, it’s not like you have to constantly evade the team for a long duration of time. Flag Juggling only seems to make the game too easy for that aspect. You only have a short length to travel, why are you allowed to constantly throw the flag around?
>
> If they brought dropping/juggling back to CTF after adding it to Oddball, it would also feel somewhat redundant to include both the gametypes when they have similar mechanics. They could always take throwing out of Oddball for H5, but personally I feel that the ball throwing works better for Oddball than CTF.

Why does oddball have throwing force CTF to not have throwing… They aren’t mutually exclusive. In what way does flag juggling make it easier? I seriously don’t understand? Everybody would know where you are and you really aren’t moving much faster. The only thing this allows is throwing the flag down to somebody or up to somebody, which creates excellent opportunities for teamwork and planning. I am waiting to hear a legitimate problem with flag juggling but I don’t think one exists, what problem does it create?

The game I played more than anything in all previous game was Big Team Battle, and then my team would vote for flag or assault. I was a die-hard halo fan, we had a ‘clan’ since halo 2 and pretty much everyday we would be a full party of 8 going into big team over and over. None of my group played halo 4 for more than the first month. I want to be a halo fan again but if the gametypes resemble halo 4, instead of all the previous halo games I simply wont bother.

@The Rye Wall

I would have to see a no-waypoint CTF in action before I could make an opinion on whether I like it. I honestly don’t know about this one. Was that in older Halo? It’s been so long since I’ve played legitimate classic CTF, I’m not even sure. I really need to play Halo 2 multiplayer again don’t I?

The reason I wouldn’t like juggling/throwing in too many modes is not because it isn’t skillful (which it is), it’s because if you have the same mechanics implemented across several gametypes, things will feel a little bit too sameish, resulting in less variety. Not enough to cause the game to be bad, no no, of course not, I just find what Halo 4 did with CTF and Oddball to be improvements, with the exception of auto-pickup, no flag returns, and the fact that you can cheaply toss the ball off the map without any penalty.

I just prefer CTF having more emphasis on escorting the near-helpless flag carrier. Since the flag carrier is a lot more vulnerable this time around (can’t drop the flag to pull out a stronger weapon), protecting him is more important than ever. It makes tne game not just about securing the flag, but also protecting the guy carrying it, which takes a lot of teamwork, and in my opinion, it makes flag runs wayyy more epic overall.

Classic CTF may have some focus on escorting as well, bur it’s not as much because you can easily whip out a more powerful weapon to wipe the floor with any attackers. When the person can defend himself, there’s less need to escort. I find it better this way because if you fail to be there for your flag carrier, you’re essentially screwing him over. It makes it so you HAVE to escort him, and there’s no other way out. That takes some serious teamwork right there.

I really, really, REALLY dislike Halo 4 as well. These are some of the only changes I actually approve of (flagnum, no flag-dropping, ball throwing).

> Throwing destroyed the game? I disagree. Oddball was essentially just Halo’s version of Keep Away. Being able to throw the ball added a bit more skill to the game. You would have to position yourself at the right angle, time your throw so the player catches it and the enemy doesn’t intercept it, and it required better communication and coordination between team members.
>
> If they make it so you can throw the objective in both Capture the Flag AND Oddball, yes the gametypes will begin to feel too similar.
>
> Being able to drop the flag and pull out a good weapon destroys the “flag carrier being helpless” aspect in the game. With the way it’s set in Halo 4, you actually have to escort the flag carrier across the terrain, way more than you ever had to, as well as make sure that you protect the person carrying the flag, because he can’t whip out a BR, Shotgun, Rocket Launcher, or any good weapon to defend himself in the case of an ambush. He only has a pistol to suppress already weakened enemies, and it’s not a good choice for combat (you have to be extremely lucky to kill at least one person with full shields, when you have the flagnum). This is equally as skillful as classic CTF.
>
> I find it the other way. Being able to throw the ball off a cliff to reset it is way more noobish. It serves as nothing more but an easy cheap shot when your in danger.
>
> Just because MLG is one of the biggest doesn’t mean its the best. Why not be fair to the other gaming leagues and give each one its own playlist then? Or why not just make a neutral playlist that’s not tied to any league? Personally I don’t even like MLG these days. I was obsessed with it all throughout it’s Halo 1 and Halo 2 run, but after that my love for MLG started to faulter. Nowadays I personally feel that the European leagues are way better than their American counterparts, at least for the ones that I’ve seen.
>
> I am not a casual player. I hate mostly everything about Halo 4’s multiplayer. Most of the changes to Capture the Flag and Oddball, however, I do agree with. I am a very competitive gamer at heart, and I often do play competitive settings. I play MLG settings, and I play Promod in Halo 4. I am nowhere near a casual gamer, do not put me down because of a simple disagreement. It’s not like I’m saying “This is good for the game because I say it is.” I’m actually giving good reasons to back up what I am saying, from a competitive standpoint. I am a competitive gamer, not a casual one, so do not ever disrespect me in such a manner. Are we understood?

There’s a difference between throwing a ball across the map and throwing the flag 4 ft. Once again, in pre-halo 4 days, oddball and CTF never felt similar. Their entire style of play, objective and strategies are different. Also, watch any game of mlg oddball on guardian in H3 and that should give you a good idea of why playing the ball is a good thing. It promotes the fact that you not only need to kill the ball carrier but also win map control to actually succeed.

MLG was the biggest, most popular and best pro gaming league for halo during the time when MLG playlists existed. You’ll notice after mlg dropped halo there wasn’t an mlg playlist any longer. It’s not “unfair” to other leagues, it simply caters to what the majority of halo fans want to play as their competitive settings. They wanted mlg because that was what they saw the pros playing. I never said it HAS to be called an mlg playlist… I just explained why it was called that.

“flag carrier being helpless” was never part of the halo series before H4, and your statement about having to be extremely lucky to get a kill with the flagnum is totally false. The flagnum was way overpowered. It’s pretty easy to average at least a kill per flag run with the flagnum. Also, escorting the flag carrier isn’t what competitive play, or halo in general is about. Halo is focused on power weapon and map control. Kill the other team, trap them in their spawn, don’t let them get to the guy carrying the flag. That’s how you get a capture in Halo. And not being able to drop the flag just discourages people with power weapons from taking the flag because they can’t use them and give the other team the power weapons if they die, so they basically get punished for playing objectively. Pulling out a rocket launcher while carrying the flag and killing someone isn’t any more unfair than killing someone with a rocket launcher when you don’t have the flag. If you get the power weapon, you should be able to use it.

Also, for a competitive player you don’t have a very high CSR. there’s nothing wrong with being a non-competitive player either so don’t act all high and mighty. Just understand both perspectives and realize that a core competitive game doesn’t eliminate casual gameplay. It just makes everything more fair and balanced.