Anti-griefer Megathread. (updated)

Games Other Halo
1

OT may contain minor spoilers.

What are griefers?

There are many players of Halo that understand that a coordinated team strategy far out-guns a beginner with a power-weapon. But unfortunately for us all, there are plenty of those who don’t. For the remainder of this topic, they shall remain described as Griefers. The thread is aimed at discussing measures that prevent griefing.

Griefers, in Halo, are typically players that lack the basic skill to win regular encounters with standard equipment. They need high tier weapons and vehicles to thrive, and will kill, injure and/or sabotage teammates to get these. Other times they simply do these things to provoke other players, in hopes of some sort of emotional response. (possibly due to lack of human contact irl.)

In the beginning, the problem was simple. Reds killing reds and blues killing blues. As a resulting countermeasure, betrayal booting was introduced. This however, has in some cases lead to further dismay.

A regular problem in Halo: Reach multiplayer: Griefer wants your vehicle (i.e. wraith) and jumps in your path, inadvertedly causing you to betray him/her. You are booted and the Griefer takes your vehicle upon spawn. This also affects your would-be teammates, who are now one man short, and stuck with a lousy driver.

Example 2: You grab the Rocket Launcher. Griefer wants (needs) this weapon and as a result, he/she begins constantly lowering your shields and health to the minimum, so all it takes is a single AR round from an enemy, and he/she can take your ordnance.

In Halo 4 a new vehicle, the Mantis, is introduced. You can t-bag with this vehicle. The Mantis is a powerhouse that seemingly has the firepower to take out scorpion tanks and wraiths alike (and then t-bag them), it also has the ability to take a laser to the face and walk away. (literally). Oh, and did I mention you can T-bag with it? Needless to say, this vehicle is one that will be fought for. A well coordinated team will defend their Mantis, but in other cases, chances are you’ll see teammates sabotaging each-other to get it. And as you might have noticed, the new vehicle seems particularly vulnerable to this kind of betrayal. Paths will be blocked. EMP bursts will be fired. Matches will be lost.

In reaction to this phenomenon, multiple countermeasures have been theorized;

One is to add a type of “negative” medals, similar to notations on a drivers license. But we still need for the game to detect griefing in the first place, so this solution might be sub-optimal.
In addition, some griefers seem to find fame in infamy, and so the “negative medals” would become coveted battle trophies.

The real question becomes: How do we get the Halo 4 (or 5) engine to detect griefing?

First of all, lets talk about existing technology.

The betrayal system makes sure that players who kill enough teammates can get booted. The “betayee” often gets the option to boot or not, so that accidents can be forgiven.
The Medal/commendations/stats system tracks your stats ingame and online. Notable entries include battle proficiency rating, K/D spread, and weapon accuracy.
The “anti-quitter” system ensures that people who leave too many games prematurely, get a temp. ban. This seems to be a “per time” kind of stat, meaning that quitting more frequently in a short time-period is more likely to cause you to get banned, and the meter “cools down” over time.
The anti-AFC system ensures that people who leave their controllers in the middle of games do not enter new games automatically. If this didn’t exist, matches would be filled with static scarecrows.
[/li]

Suggestions:

  1. The betrayal system needs to be a tad bit more sophisticated. If you splatter a teammate, it is more likely an accident than if you assassinate him. Also, the distance between traitor and victim is indicative. So is their respective activities during and after the betrayal.

  2. Introduce a “anti-griefer” system. Track players accuracy and frequency of friendly fire. (percentage of shots hit on friendlies, total and per minute) If numbers are abnormally high, count towards punitive measures. Track frequency of betrayals received, if numbers are abnormally high, count towards punitive measures. Track PP bursts on friendly vehicles, if numbers are abnormally high, count towards punitive measures. These measures might be booting or temp. ban, and may coincide with conviction for other minor insults such as betrayal.

  3. Create a “Soft” friendly fire system. PP bursts and EMP grenades have smaller effects on friendly players/vehicles.

  4. Reward and enable team coordination, cooperation and communication. It is possible to present a map of the level prior to the match where people can put their waypoints on where they will go and what assets they plan to acquire. This is just an example of a “team friendly” gameplay feature. This can also be done ingame, by allowing players to mark a waypoint with a dot. Perhaps by pressing down on d-pad.

  5. (Submitted by Mike SIII) Display Ranking and/or Battle Proficiency Rating ingame. Make detected griefing detrimental to overall score. Thus motivating self-concious players to cooperate and win.

[/li]

Further discussion

Please give your suggestions on how to prevent griefing in future (and current) Halo games. Let us shed some light on this problem by focusing on solutions.

Edit: Also, if you have a twitter- or neogaf-account, please feel free to direct 343 officials to this discussion. :slight_smile:
Frank O’Connor (Twitter). Jessica Shea (Twitter) David Ellis (Twitter) Sorry for the shameless propaganda-making!

Thank you for reading and thanks for any feedback. :slight_smile:

I

2

-The community speaks-

Green reticle tracking / Griefer metrics

> I tend to believe that the games knows who you are aiming at. When you shoot a teammate, your fate should be determined by where the teammate was and what happens next. If your teammate is close enough to or is actually boarding a vehicle and you shoot him, the game should make a note if you take the vehicle. If it happens again, out you go. Same thing for power weapons. If you shoot a teammate that’s near one or has one, then you pick it up, note the first time and if it happens again, out you go.
>
> The game should do the booting. When players are given the option they usually just press a button to get rid of the screen so they can get back to playing. The offending player cannot frustrate the game. If you are told which circumstances will get you booted, you can’t complain when it happens.

> Tracking friendly-fire hit percentage would be a good step, but I think we should be a tad more specific.
>
> What we need is a greifer ranking system, no less.
>
> It should track the following:
>
> -Damage dealt to allies (%).
> -Amount of hits on an ally (%).
> -Time reticle is placed over an ally vs. enemies (%).
> -Betrayals relative to total kills (%).
> -Amount of allies and enemies in kill range of a shot or explosion (%).
> -Time when betrayal was retaliatory (%) (IMPORTANT).
>
> All the above taken into consideration, the game (or servers) should then generate a number that reflects a player’s reputation.
>
> The higher the number the quicker a betrayal lands that player the boot. It could go as quickly as a 1-betrayal auto-boot.
>
> Of course, to encourage good behaviour, this rank should decay over time.
>
> As for projecticles tracking, this is always disabled to allies, so it should be no issue.
>
> PP bursts I think are a different story.
>
> You can’t disable the EMP effect to allies without changing the game, but you can have a few playlists like Infinity Slayer where friendly fire is disabled.

> Have tried searching for the original post on this, but this forum’s search sucks, so credit to whoever’s idea this was.
>
> Let’s assign an amount of points/XP to a user with full shields. It doesn’t really matter what that value is, but let’s pick 150 for this example. An XP boundary could then be set for booting. If you remove say a combined 300 XP from your team-mates during a game the last player you removed XP from gets the option to boot you.
>
> This is the equivalent to 2 full betrayals (so would allow a genuine player 1 accidental betrayal), and allows for the booting of people who drop your shields without betraying you. It also has the benefit that it’s very straight forward and simple to implement.
>
> I think this could easily be accommodated into vehicle griefing as well.
>
> Oh, and just to add to that. If you betray someone (accidental or on purpose) you cannot pick up their weapons or enter their vehicle.
>
> It will mean that I won’t be able to grief my team-mates in multi-team when I’m matched up with randoms and they played for k/d rather than help me get the objective, but hey I can live with that for a better booting system.

Ranking / BPR

> Griefers exist due to the lack of visible/lose-able ranks. When you play only for luls why not grief others if thats fun to you? Continuing that line of thought, if you only have fun in the game when you are in the tank or with the sniper, but someone else takes it, why shouldnt they pay for spoiling your fun? Its just a game and one doesnt need a plus sign of pixels next to their name right?
>
> Ranks made people crazy though. They actually made people care about winning, and kept all the people that didnt care about winning together as low ranked players. Crazy right O_o

> I know what you do.
>
> Basically, you make ranked playlists, where your rank is determined by whether you win or lose the game(I know, mad right?). Firstly, this creates an environment where generally teams will pull in the same direction towards a common goal - the win matters and griefing your own team will definitely hurt your own chances of progression.
>
> Secondly - eventually, by way of trueskill matchmaking any serial ‘griefers’ will be weeded out of the upper tiers of competitive play. This will make players who consistently work as a team and progress their rank through wins encouter such players far less.
>
> ^Oh don’t be ridiculous SP1NN1NGKNELB0W, some individuals will sell their accounts when they reach max rank and -Yoink!- can’t have that. Ah well, we can all just try and play nicely together in ‘social’.

-I will use this post to list the most constructive comments. Thanks guys.-

3

I honestly have no idea how to make a useful reply to this thread due to being tired. But I agree with everything you have said, good job.

Edit: Maybe once you hit a team mate, a timer starts, if the team-mate dies within this timer it penalized you.

Betraying people could also put an arrow above your head saying “TRAITOR” so that your allies could avoid you.

4

But…I like to grief.

5

Why not just turn off friendly fire?

6

> But…I like to grief.

I don’t like getting griefed

7

> I honestly have no idea how to make a useful reply to this thread due to being tired. But I agree with everything you have said, good job.
>
> Edit: Maybe once you hit a team mate, a timer starts, if the team-mate dies within this timer it penalized you.
>
> Betraying people could also put an arrow above your head saying “TRAITOR” so that your allies could avoid you.

The problem when I drink and play halo is I do whatever to have fun. Which is completely anti team and most disruptive in the game. But at least I got under the “play to have fun” option. Sorry for anyone who has played with me or against me during my drunken Halo fury.

8

> > But…I like to grief.
>
> I don’t like getting griefed

Because apparently betraying people is TOO halo to remove but changing the entire game isnt…

9

I tend to believe that the games knows who you are aiming at. When you shoot a teammate, your fate should be determined by where the teammate was and what happens next. If your teammate is close enough to or is actually boarding a vehicle and you shoot him, the game should make a note if you take the vehicle. If it happens again, out you go. Same thing for power weapons. If you shoot a teammate that’s near one or has one, then you pick it up, note the first time and if it happens again, out you go.

The game should do the booting. When players are given the option they usually just press a button to get rid of the screen so they can get back to playing. The offending player cannot frustrate the game. If you are told which circumstances will get you booted, you can’t complain when it happens.

10

> > > But…I like to grief.
> >
> > I don’t like getting griefed
>
> Because apparently betraying people is TOO halo to remove but changing the entire game isnt…

Could you elaborate? (I dont even…)

11

> > > > But…I like to grief.
> > >
> > > I don’t like getting griefed
> >
> > Because apparently betraying people is TOO halo to remove but changing the entire game isnt…
>
> Could you elaborate? (I dont even…)

oops i think i quoted the wrong person.

Anyways what i meant is everytime i say “well then just take off friendly fire” people get out of hand and start screamin “no thats a part of halo”

12

Another idea would be to have a bar, when the bar reaches 100% someone is given the option to boot to, different betrayals fill more of the bar.

Vehicles that are easy to accidentally splatter in (Wraith, Ghost, Warthog) only fill 25%.
Vehicles that are hard to accidentally splatter in (Scorpion, Mongoose, Banshee) fill 50%.
Grenades and explosive power weapons fill 25%.
Automatic weapon betrayals and turret (vehicle and mounted/detached)fill 50%.
Precision weapons fill 50%.
Close range power weapons fill 75%.
Melee fills 100%, no way can you accidentally betray a team mate with a punch.

13

Why not have a new function in theater mode where you can tag the footage of the betrayal happening and have an area in the menu there will be a “Betrayal submissions” were you send the video there and it goes to 343. That way there will be the full game in so they can determine if it was a griefer of just an accident.
They look over the video and determine the punishment. They can take notes on that gamer tag and if they have multiple offenses then they can ban them, for a certain period.

14

> OT may contain minor spoilers.
>
> What are griefers?
>
> There are many players of Halo that understand that a coordinated team strategy far out-guns a beginner with a power-weapon. But unfortunately for us all, there are plenty of those who don’t. For the remainder of this topic, they shall remain described as Griefers. The thread is aimed at discussing measures that prevent griefing.
>
> Griefers, in Halo, are typically players that lack the basic skill to win regular encounters with standard equipment. They need high tier weapons and vehicles to thrive, and will kill, injure and/or sabotage teammates to get these. Other times they simply do these things to provoke other players, in hopes of some sort of emotional response. (possibly due to lack of human contact irl.)
>
> In the beginning, the problem was simple. Reds killing reds and blues killing blues. As a resulting countermeasure, betrayal booting was introduced. This however, has in some cases lead to further dismay.
>
> A regular problem in Halo: Reach multiplayer: Griefer wants your vehicle (i.e. wraith) and jumps in your path, inadvertedly causing you to betray him/her. You are booted and the Griefer takes your vehicle upon spawn. This also affects your would-be teammates, who are now one man short, and stuck with a lousy driver.
>
> Example 2: You grab the Rocket Launcher. Griefer wants (needs) this weapon and as a result, he/she begins constantly lowering your shields and health to the minimum, so all it takes is a single AR round from an enemy, and he/she can take your ordnance.
>
> In Halo 4 a new vehicle, the Mantis, is introduced. You can t-bag with this vehicle. The Mantis is a powerhouse that seemingly has the firepower to take out scorpion tanks and wraiths alike (and then t-bag them), it also has the ability to take a laser to the face and walk away. (literally). Oh, and did I mention you can T-bag with it? Needless to say, this vehicle is one that will be fought for. A well coordinated team will defend their Mantis, but in other cases, chances are you’ll see teammates sabotaging each-other to get it. And as you might have noticed, the new vehicle seems particularly vulnerable to this kind of betrayal. Paths will be blocked. EMP bursts will be fired. Matches will be lost.
>
>
>
>
>
> In reaction to this phenomenon, multiple countermeasures have been theorized;
>
> One is to add a type of “negative” medals, similar to notations on a drivers license. But we still need for the game to detect griefing in the first place, so this solution might be sub-optimal.
> In addition, some griefers seem to find fame in infamy, and so the “negative medals” would become coveted battle trophies.
>
> The real question becomes: How do we get the Halo 4 (or 5) engine to detect griefing?
>
> First of all, lets talk about existing technology.
>
> The betrayal system makes sure that players who kill enough teammates can get booted. The “betayee” often gets the option to boot or not, so that accidents can be forgiven.
> The Medal/commendations/stats system tracks your stats ingame and online. Notable entries include battle proficiency rating, K/D spread, and weapon accuracy.
> The “anti-quitter” system ensures that people who leave too many games prematurely, get a temp. ban. This seems to be a “per time” kind of stat, meaning that quitting more frequently in a short time-period is more likely to cause you to get banned, and the meter “cools down” over time.
> The anti-AFC system ensures that people who leave their controllers in the middle of games do not enter new games automatically. If this didn’t exist, matches would be filled with static scarecrows.
> [/li]
>
>
> Suggestions:
>
> 1) The betrayal system needs to be a tad bit more sophisticated. If you splatter a teammate, it is more likely an accident than if you assassinate him.
>
> 2) Introduce a “anti-griefer” system. Track players accuracy of friendly fire. (percentage of shots hit on friendlies) If numbers are abnormally high, count towards punitive measures. Track frequency of betrayals received, if numbers are abnormally high, count towards punitive measures. Track PP bursts on friendly vehicles, if numbers are abnormally high, count towards punitive measures. These measures might be booting or temp. ban, and may coincide with conviction for other minor insults such as betrayal.
>
> 3) Create a “Soft” friendly fire system. PP bursts and EMP grenades have smaller effects on friendly players/vehicles.
>
> 4) Reward and enable team coordination, cooperation and communication. It is possible to present a map of the level prior to the match where people can put their waypoints on where they will go and what assets they plan to acquire. This is just an example of a “team friendly” gameplay feature. This can also be done ingame, by allowing players to mark a waypoint with a dot. Perhaps by pressing down on d-pad.
>
> [/li]
>
> Further discussion
>
> Please give your suggestions on how to prevent griefing in future (and current) Halo games. Let us shed some light on this problem by focusing on solutions.
>
> Thank you for reading and thanks for any feedback. :slight_smile:

Griefers exist due to the lack of visible/lose-able ranks. When you play only for luls why not grief others if thats fun to you? Continuing that line of thought, if you only have fun in the game when you are in the tank or with the sniper, but someone else takes it, why shouldnt they pay for spoiling your fun? Its just a game and one doesnt need a plus sign of pixels next to their name right?

Ranks made people crazy though. They actually made people care about winning, and kept all the people that didnt care about winning together as low ranked players. Crazy right O_o

15

> I tend to believe that the games knows who you are aiming at. When you shoot a teammate, your fate should be determined by where the teammate was and what happens next. If your teammate is close enough to or is actually boarding a vehicle and you shoot him, the game should make a note if you take the vehicle. If it happens again, out you go. Same thing for power weapons. If you shoot a teammate that’s near one or has one, then you pick it up, note the first time and if it happens again, out you go.
>
> The game should do the booting. When players are given the option they usually just press a button to get rid of the screen so they can get back to playing. The offending player cannot frustrate the game. If you are told which circumstances will get you booted, you can’t complain when it happens.

Yes. The game knows exactly who you are aiming at and wether or not you hit them.

It could work like this: 3(Green reticle + hit detected) / time = Boot. (simplified)

A more advanced equation could factor in time to weapon claimed and similar.

16

How about this…

Any betrayal at all allows whoever you betrayed to boot you, but every match you are given one appeal token. This can be used to prevent one boot. Once it is used, another betrayal will allow you to be booted.

This would only allow griefers to betray once, and anyone who betrayed accidentally would be extra careful after their token was gone.

17

I have two ideas.

An in match menu for a vote to kick option? If half the team votes to kick, you’re out. A small message, perhaps in the bottom right hand of the screen across from the killfeed, a message would show that a vote has been initiated to kick a player.

If not that, then perhaps a karma system for players who are given the option to boot or forgive. Those who forgive a lot have less of a chance to be booted themselves when they betray, and those that boot do not have any leniency points added. In fact, I think players who boot within a few seconds of getting the option should have leniency points subtracted. There’d have been no way to determine why and how a team mate killed them in that amount of time, unless they just simply blatantly saw a team mate beat them down. That’s still fine though, because they’re dead and they can just wait until they respawn to boot.

18

> What about…
>
>
> An in match menu for a vote to kick option? If half the team votes to kick, you’re out.

Left 4 Dead 2 is a great example of why this would suck completely.

19

Play with a full party of friends otherwise this will happen…

Kids will be kids

20

> > What about…
> >
> >
> > An in match menu for a vote to kick option? If half the team votes to kick, you’re out.
>
> Left 4 Dead 2 is a great example of why this would suck completely.

is that going to be your go-to phrase whenever someone brings up votekicks?
because it seems to be a logical argument