Another TU issue

Games Other Halo
#1

I’m sure you have noticed that the TU is being discussed on these forums on a large scale. Most of the discussion is around the bloom, bleedthrough, and swordblock.

This thread is about an issue that has (at least I think it has) gone more or less unnoticed: Evade.

Now, this isn’t a TU-specific problem. However, the TU greatly exaggerates its effect. My issue with evade is simply that it is overpowered.

With the removal of the other “lame” armor abilities, one’s choice for some playlists (take team objective, for example) is limited to sprint, evade, and camo. Camo is too easy to spot in order to be fearsome, and sprint is your standard armor ability, but comes with an absurdly long delay in which you can’t shoot, if you come out of it. Evade has no such disadvantage. When you come out of it, you are allowed to continue shooting immediately as if nothing happened. And its advantage is even greater than that of sprint, as it allows for a faster land coverage, while also making the user less vulnerable.

The fact that the other AA’s have been taken out, have encouraged the use of evade, as it is now the only overpowered AA. I’m not saying it would be better to fight an entire team of armor lockers, or an entire team of jetpackers (another gamebreaking issue). I’m saying evade can break a game as much as those others can, and how nobody really notices that. Taking out all armor abilities that are easy to abuse out of matchmaking is not the solution, as when you remove some, jerks have ways of always finding how to abuse one of the remaining armor abilities. Yes, even sprint. If we take out one AA, we should take them all out.

How does the TU worsen this effect?
First of all, killtimes are much faster due to bloom reduction and bleedthrough. Sprint can be handy for getting away from enemy fire and getting to a teammate quickly to help him out. Evade does the same, but is twice as fast, makes you smaller (and thus harder to hit) and you can shoot instantly when you come out. Therefore, evade has a much better chance of both getting away AND helping out teammates. This is worse with the TU since the fast killtimes make escaping quickly even more important. The advantage of Evade, which it already had, is almost doubled.
Second of all, the removal of swordblock. Swordblock was designed with sprint in mind, because a sword can be used instantly without even having to need to come out of sprint. Sprint + sword is already overpowered, but once again, Evade can cover a large distance much faster than sprint does, while not being as vulnerable to enemy fire. Evade + sword is actually much worse, and wasn’t designed for spartans to begin with. Even with something as OP as evade + sword, 343i apparently does not have the common sense of either removing ALL armor abilities or keeping swordblock. One of the two has to go.

I’ll be completely honest with you. the reason I’m frustrated about this is because I had this match yesterday where the enemy team had fun in spawnkilling us in 4v4 team objective. My k/d was -27. We would actually have stood a chance if our two teammates had known not to hold their DMR backwards. I admit that they were good players, however every time I was winning a 1v1 (which rarely happened with all their teamshooting), I found they would ALWAYS evade across half the map to safety. And Every time i chased because I needed that one headshot (impossible to get on a person evading away from you btw), one of their teammates cleaned me up. (same for my friend).
This happened on Asylum, which is absolutely broken by evade and nothing like Halo 2 (or current MLG) sanctuary btw. The structures are just the right size to evade to the other side of them. When you sprint after them, you have to deal with a sprint cooldown to get the headshot, where the evaders do not. When watching the footage from their point of view, I lost count of the amount of times evade saved their rear.

Not only did evade save them all the time (where sprint couldn’t have), One of them was making work of abusing evade + sword to the max. He got all 10 kills out of the sword, which is not how it is supposed to work out. When his sword ran dry, he picked up a pp, causing the sword to spawn again, and just picked up a second sword, that he decided to spawn for himself.

Now, you could say “why didn’t you just use evade yourself?”. Well, that’s exactly my point. If everyone is forced to take a specific AA in order to win, that means it is definitive proof of that armor ability being overpowered. It wasn’t designed for spartans and regular matchmaking at first, and it no longer works (if it ever has) with the current TU.

I am begging 343i to fix this.
I’m still in love with the MLG zero bloom no sprint settings, and getting back to regular matchmaking with bloom and armor abilities is just painful. Please just get rid of evade, and whlie you’re at it, do so for all armor abilities… And up the movement speed to 120% to counter the reduced mobility. And place the overpowered AA’s on the map, so that it can be earned instead of spawned with. Evade on 120% movement speed is insane, yet fair.

(Also, reduce melee damage, bring back the post-patch halo 3 melee system and use zero bloom, but those issues are discussed in other threads.)

#2

Jetpack is still worse.

#3

Two criminals are on the loose, and they are continuously committing their respective crime. One is a murderer, the other is a thief.

Removing jetpack and armor lock is like the police only going after the murderer and leaving the thief alone. Only half of what they are supposed to do is done.

#4

> Jetpack is still worse.

#5

This is a problem with all of the AAs except Sprint. When everyone uses the same one, it breaks gameplay.

#6

I think what you are realizing is that while AAs are fun, they are still crutches.

#7

Do you realize what is happening? People complained about Armor Lock-NERFED. People complained about jetpack-nerfed. People complained about active camo-nerfed, now people are complaining about Evade…

#8

Al, Jetpack, Camo and dropsheild are still worse.

Evade is only good in good hands.

I admit evade + Sword/Hammer is slightly better than Sprint but only in good hands as timing the evade isnt that easy all the time but sprinting is easy as.

I dont think it needs to be nerfed at all.

I do agree melee damage is too high and needs to be reduced.

#9

if evade is removed from the team objective playlist, what little incentive i had to play halo will be stripped away.

evade is the primary reason why i even play this game anymore. it is the only AA that actually adds a significant amount of skill gap to the game without adding nonsense.

mad about people using evade? use evade yourself. get good with it. see how much skill gap it adds. pull of some super clutch plays with it. then get back to us.

if you dont like evade go play team slayer. there you can pick whichever AA you want and none of them will be evade. dont touch the only non-MLG playlist that isnt a complete and total joke because of the settings.

#10

[deleted]

#11

> How I see it:
>
> AA’s are one of Reach’s best features.
>
> AA’s as loadouts is Reach’s worst feature.

My thoughts exactly. :).

#12

> Do you realize what is happening? People complained about Armor Lock-NERFED. People complained about jetpack-nerfed. People complained about active camo-nerfed, now people are complaining about Evade…

I realise this. My vision on it is so crystal clear, I included it in my OP before you even posted that. PLease try to get my point.

My point is not “get rid of this AA, get rid of that AA”. All armor abilities can be abused, so if you keep some of them in gameplay as loadouts, it is obvious people are going to complain. My complaint is how, with the removal of the other overpowered AA’s, evade has become the new overpowered one. I know that if they get rid of evade, the next annoying thing will be camo.

343i should have realised that it is much better to just let us EARN our AA’s by placing them on the map. Look at MLG, they fight as vigorously over Evade than they do over a grenade launcher, for example, because they know it gives a huge advantage as long as they stay alive with it.

Removing AA’s as loadouts is the only solution to every AA issue, and also the easiest. Because if we keep the option to choose our AA’s, there will always be one that will be picked the most and abused the -Yoink- out of.

#13

> if evade is removed from the team objective playlist, what little incentive i had to play halo will be stripped away.
>
> evade is the primary reason why i even play this game anymore. it is the only AA that actually adds a significant amount of skill gap to the game without adding nonsense.
>
> mad about people using evade? use evade yourself. get good with it. see how much skill gap it adds. pull of some super clutch plays with it. then get back to us.
>
> if you dont like evade go play team slayer. there you can pick whichever AA you want and none of them will be evade. dont touch the only non-MLG playlist that isnt a complete and total joke because of the settings.

I’m not saying we should have team objective with just sprint and camo. I’m saying we should have all playlists take an example of MLG. This way, none of the playlists will be a joke and you will like all of them.

And you would get to keep evade, but you would have to pick it up from the map first. If the enemy gets it first, try to kill him first and you’ll have it in the following 30 seconds.

And no, i’m not mad about people using evade. I don’t blame them for choosing the best AA. I’m mad about how it became the only reasonable AA to use. Yes, I am going to use Evade next time, even though I hate it when every spartan in the game becomes a freaking ninja. I will do this until this gets fixed. But it won’t nearly be half as fun as it would be if we could just pick our AAs up.

If MLG can make the game more fun than 343i did, surely 343i must easily be able to globally implement something inspired on MLG. For the sake of fun competitiveness, which is what we all want deep inside.

#14

> > Do you realize what is happening? People complained about Armor Lock-NERFED. People complained about jetpack-nerfed. People complained about active camo-nerfed, now people are complaining about Evade…
>
> I realise this. My vision on it is so crystal clear, I included it in my OP before you even posted that. PLease try to get my point.
>
> My point is not “get rid of this AA, get rid of that AA”. All armor abilities can be abused, so if you keep some of them in gameplay as loadouts, it is obvious people are going to complain. My complaint is how, with the removal of the other overpowered AA’s, evade has become the new overpowered one. I know that if they get rid of evade, the next annoying thing will be camo.
>
> 343i should have realised that it is much better to just let us EARN our AA’s by placing them on the map. Look at MLG, they fight as vigorously over Evade than they do over a grenade launcher, for example, because they know it gives a huge advantage as long as they stay alive with it.
>
> Removing AA’s as loadouts is the only solution to every AA issue, and also the easiest. Because if we keep the option to choose our AA’s, there will always be one that will be picked the most and abused the Yoink! out of.

Although I think you are very right, I think you are asking too much of 343i. What you are in essence asking them to do, is to design a new game and call it Reach while they are hard at work designing the new game they intend to call Halo 4.

This has always been my main dissatisfaction with the TU. It was done as a quick patch, and only took care of some issues, while overlooking many, many others, and it didn’t even do a good enough job with most of the issues allegedly taken care of. In my opinion, 343i would have been better off not doing a TU at all. Halo 4 is their game; they are off their game with Reach.

#15

> >
>
> Although I think you are very right, I think you are asking too much of 343i. What you are in essence asking them to do, is to design a new game and call it Reach while they are hard at work designing the new game they intend to call Halo 4.
>
> This has always been my main dissatisfaction with the TU. It was done as a quick patch, and only took care of some issues, while overlooking many, many others, and it didn’t even do a good enough job with most of the issues allegedly taken care of. In my opinion, 343i would have been better off not doing a TU at all. Halo 4 is their game; they are off their game with Reach.

I fear more and more that you are right. Yes, I’m asking much of 343i. And yes, they should either stop caring for Reach entirely (which means they shouldn’t have bothered with the TU) and make an epic Halo 4, or be a badass and make both games as epic as I imagine they will be.

If only they assigned one or two guys from their team to scour the forums and make a list of epic and easy changes, then took one week of time to implement them, they could deal with matters very efficiently. But I guess that’s wishful thinking.

#16

> if evade is removed from the team objective playlist, what little incentive i had to play halo will be stripped away.

Ah so you do understand why I dont want to play Arena, you just dont apply the same standards to me as you do yourself, interesting.

> evade is the primary reason why i even play this game anymore. it is the only AA that actually adds a significant amount of skill gap to the game without adding nonsense.

Right so leaping at players like a rabid circus zombie, balanced competitive play, everything else casual.

> mad about people using evade?

Nope, but the OP does not care for it, should it be taken out because he does not care for it? How will you feel about that iQ?

> use evade yourself.

I have an AA that I have chosen, but if you like evade, have at it.

> get good with it.

So someone can have it removed? No thanks =/

> see how much skill gap it adds.

So this AA creates a wider skill gap and the other ones make it more narrow? Im confused.

> pull of some super clutch plays with it.

The OP has no desire to play with it or allow others to play with it, its OP and unbalanced, that means it should be removed right?

> then get back to us.

I believe he already has done the work and his coclusion is, he wants it gone.

> if you dont like evade go play team slayer.

Is this like “if you dont like AA, go play Halo3”?

> there you can pick whichever AA you want and none of them will be evade.

This is true.

> dont touch the only non-MLG playlist that isnt a complete and total joke because of the settings.

Right, you could add up the population from that playlist and multiply it by ten and it still would not equal TS, thats a joke.

#17

Sorry but evade is never getting changed. Hope you had fun writing that essay.

#18

> Sorry but evade is never getting changed. Hope you had fun writing that essay.

At least now I know I’m not the only one who wants this change to happen.

#19

> If only they assigned one or two guys from their team to scour the forums and make a list of epic and easy changes, then took one week of time to implement them, they could deal with matters very efficiently. But I guess that’s wishful thinking.

I can’t even get them to listen to the posts I’ve made asking them to fix some simple weapon and health station spawns that are broken, or to get them to simply add Temptation to the DLC playlists (past and present); so yeah, wishful thinking.

#20

But really OP, this is not a true problem as much as a symptom of the problem.
AAs don’t work for Halo, and Reach was from the beginning flawed. Sure, 343i can put a lot of time/effort into trying to make it better, time and money that could have been used to make Halo 4 better.
Now, do you prioritize a game that will be dead in a couple of moths, or a game that should live for at least 2 more years?
There’s a ton of things they can do, that Bungie should have done, but water under the bridges and now it’s too late. Let’s try to enjoy Reach for what it is, the ugly duckling, and hope Halo 4 instead could be a swan. I just can’t say that evade is such a big issue, such a game-breaking problem that it prevents me from playing Reach (compared to other issues).