It’s been almost a year since I last posted but after reading the Halo Mythos (with incredible summarization of Halo Lore with stunning visualizes) I noticed one question was not answered.
So Humanity attacked and conquered other peaceful planets even Forerunner planets because they were fleeing The Flood, and eventually also found a cure and utilized those planets. The Forerunners almost exterminated the Humans and wanted to punish them etc… After the Humans were devolved, the Forerunners learned that the Humans weren’t actually attacking the Forerunners but fleeing from the parasite named the Flood. It was simply an act of survival against a beastial opponent.
Why did it take hundreds of years to determine the actual cause of Humanity’s behavior and aggression? If forerunners themselves were such an (almost) enlightened species they could have easily discovered the true reason of the sudden Human hostility despite their rivalry or what would be more suited is jealousy.
Couldn’t the Humans just simply ask Forerunners to aid them in the battle against the Flood? The Forerunners saw themselves as the Guardians of the known galaxy, I’m sure they wouldn’t have helped wholeheartedly even if they knew, however according to the lore they didn’t know at all. How many conversations can there be in a millennium? I do believe the Flood (Controlled by the Precursor) wanted to simply kill off the Forerunners not other sentient life too or am I wrong? I guess Humanity just happened to be in the way?
This story is also very allegorical I’ll go into in the next post.
The forerunner trilogy is a great set of books that explains this exact situation, but basically the forerunners were silent observers of the human race(until they got fed up with our behavior), they didn’t ask because they didn’t want to get involved with the human species. How they didn’t notice the humans were fighting a war on two fronts, I have no idea. Maybe I need to reread the trilogy
Maybe Humanity was simply too prideful to ask for help from the Forerunners? Honor before Reason and whatnot, as to why the Forerunners were unaware of the Flood threat until the end of the war, they were probably more concerned with the fact that their people were being slaughtered by Humanity rather than wondering about why Humanity was so aggressive.
There’s a Halo 4 terminal that strives to make sense of this confusing miscommunication.
From what we can tell, humanity wasn’t seizing Forerunner worlds just to run away – they were also seizing them to stop the spread of the Flood. When the Flood hits critical mass (which it has never done within a Halo game, as there’s always someone with considerable firepower playing defense when they’re on the verge of an outbreak), it moves at a sprint. The Flood was flinging massive samples at planets, and those samples were racing across and consuming the surface super damn quick. Quick enough that they apparently couldn’t transmit any data to other worlds, and quick enough that when the Ancient Humans got there, all they could think to do was burn the planet until nothing lived there anymore.
There are still logistical questions, like “why didn’t these ships that were burning Forerunner worlds warn the Forerunners?” Well, there’s a couple potential answers:
- The ancient humans were too prideful. Despite barely keeping apace with the Flood, maybe they thought they could handle it, and maybe they didn’t see the point in warning the Ecumene Council as such. They figured that they can get away with this because, at worst, the Forerunners get uppity and they knock 'em down a peg. This assumes that the ancient humans had a rigid enough structure that no one within their military broke rank and warned the Forerunners independently. It would explain why the Forerunners reacted so hostilely, but would also paint the ancient humans in a far more negative light than we got them in - The Forerunners were too skeptical. Maybe the Forerunners were warned, but thought it was a bluff to justify seizing Forerunner worlds. Who’d ever heard of a planet-consuming parasite? Sounds hard to believe, especially from strangers in e-mails and voice messages. It sounds like the most proof the humans might embed in a message would be pictures, and those could be falsified. What they knew for certain was that communications with their worlds was dropping off and human ships were encroaching. This sounds like it wouldn’t necessarily hold up to scrutiny unless the Forerunners were largely just following the orders of a figurehead who had made up their mind on the subjectAny answer would require, I think, that the decisions of a major faction were made in error by a single, commanding figure, or else the incoming data should overwhelm such judgements. Certainly this part of the lore reads a little like 343 Industries wanted something a certain way but didn’t know how to reconcile everything they wanted smoothly. And this is what we got.
It was said by forthchenko himself that by time they had explained everything the flood would’ve spread to far, so they had to act immediately.
> 2533274856993166;6:
> It was said by forthchenko himself that by time they had explained everything the flood would’ve spread to far, so they had to act immediately.
I think 343 messed up with that bit. I mean it wasn’t a single quick event, these super space future cultures didn’t have recording technology? Couldn’t send data to eachother? The way 343 have it the Humans basically wiped out a world then said nothing and waited until the next infestation and again said nothing.
Maybe I’m getting things mixed up though, it would make sense if the two cultures were already in an entrenched war and then Humanity had the Flood to contend with; you could understand why they wouldn’t be believed.
There’s probably something we don’t know yet. Or it’s just lazy writing. I hope we learn more about it in the future.
Humans likely thought they could handle it on their own. The main problem here is that ancient humanity( need a better name) if I recall from the books destroyed the original powder, their infected pheru and all other proof of the flood origins. The forerunners had nothing to go off of besides infected worlds and human fleets glassing other civilization’s planets.
The Forerunners may ont have believed any evidence put in front of them and evidence can be faked aswell. A combination of the Forerunners not believing them, the Forerunners own arrogance, humanity’s lack of communicating properly with the Forerunners and the already existent tension between the two races was the cause it appears.
> 2533274806469514;9:
> Humans likely thought they could handle it on their own. The main problem here is that ancient humanity( need a better name) if I recall from the books destroyed the original powder, their infected pheru and all other proof of the flood origins. The forerunners had nothing to go off of besides infected worlds and human fleets glassing other civilization’s planets.
Surely that is enough, the infected worlds - although it would have been interesting if we had been shown Humanity presenting the Forerunners with these evidences and the Forerunner believing them in terms of the Floods existence; but objecting to the Humans method and sticking to the idea it was some kind of minor infection that could be quarantined and cured - hence them moving to stop Humanities efforts and that spirals into a war. I think that is better than neither side talking to eachother or plain ignoring what can be seen.
> 2533274869999832;10:
> The Forerunners may ont have believed any evidence put in front of them and evidence can be faked aswell. A combination of the Forerunners not believing them, the Forerunners own arrogance, humanity’s lack of communicating properly with the Forerunners and the already existent tension between the two races was the cause it appears.
I know events went quickly and space is vast but I think if, as a Human, you were on your way to a planet/system you highly suspected/knew was infected by the Flood you could ping off a message to some Forerunners and they would turn up to witness for themselves, you could even trick them into turning up and make them see with their own eyes/scanners. If Humanities tactics against the Flood meant that there was no evidence that would mean they were actually winning against the Flood.
> 2678033349858034;5:
> There’s a Halo 4 terminal that strives to make sense of this confusing miscommunication.
>
> From what we can tell, humanity wasn’t seizing Forerunner worlds just to run away – they were also seizing them to stop the spread of the Flood. When the Flood hits critical mass (which it has never done within a Halo game, as there’s always someone with considerable firepower playing defense when they’re on the verge of an outbreak), it moves at a sprint. The Flood was flinging massive samples at planets, and those samples were racing across and consuming the surface super damn quick. Quick enough that they apparently couldn’t transmit any data to other worlds, and quick enough that when the Ancient Humans got there, all they could think to do was burn the planet until nothing lived there anymore.
>
> There are still logistical questions, like “why didn’t these ships that were burning Forerunner worlds warn the Forerunners?” Well, there’s a couple potential answers:
> - The ancient humans were too prideful. Despite barely keeping apace with the Flood, maybe they thought they could handle it, and maybe they didn’t see the point in warning the Ecumene Council as such. They figured that they can get away with this because, at worst, the Forerunners get uppity and they knock 'em down a peg. This assumes that the ancient humans had a rigid enough structure that no one within their military broke rank and warned the Forerunners independently. It would explain why the Forerunners reacted so hostilely, but would also paint the ancient humans in a far more negative light than we got them in - The Forerunners were too skeptical. Maybe the Forerunners were warned, but thought it was a bluff to justify seizing Forerunner worlds. Who’d ever heard of a planet-consuming parasite? Sounds hard to believe, especially from strangers in e-mails and voice messages. It sounds like the most proof the humans might embed in a message would be pictures, and those could be falsified. What they knew for certain was that communications with their worlds was dropping off and human ships were encroaching. This sounds like it wouldn’t necessarily hold up to scrutiny unless the Forerunners were largely just following the orders of a figurehead who had made up their mind on the subjectAny answer would require, I think, that the decisions of a major faction were made in error by a single, commanding figure, or else the incoming data should overwhelm such judgements. Certainly this part of the lore reads a little like 343 Industries wanted something a certain way but didn’t know how to reconcile everything they wanted smoothly. And this is what we got.
Reminds of Game of thrones where they must prove to the world that the White Walkers exist. Thank you for your input, very insightful.
> 2533274794866970;11:
> > 2533274806469514;9:
> > Humans likely thought they could handle it on their own. The main problem here is that ancient humanity( need a better name) if I recall from the books destroyed the original powder, their infected pheru and all other proof of the flood origins. The forerunners had nothing to go off of besides infected worlds and human fleets glassing other civilization’s planets.
>
> Surely that is enough, the infected worlds - although it would have been interesting if we had been shown Humanity presenting the Forerunners with these evidences and the Forerunner believing them in terms of the Floods existence; but objecting to the Humans method and sticking to the idea it was some kind of minor infection that could be quarantined and cured - hence them moving to stop Humanities efforts and that spirals into a war. I think that is better than neither side talking to eachother or plain ignoring what can be seen.
>
>
> > 2533274869999832;10:
> > The Forerunners may ont have believed any evidence put in front of them and evidence can be faked aswell. A combination of the Forerunners not believing them, the Forerunners own arrogance, humanity’s lack of communicating properly with the Forerunners and the already existent tension between the two races was the cause it appears.
>
> I know events went quickly and space is vast but I think if, as a Human, you were on your way to a planet/system you highly suspected/knew was infected by the Flood you could ping off a message to some Forerunners and they would turn up to witness for themselves, you could even trick them into turning up and make them see with their own eyes/scanners. If Humanities tactics against the Flood meant that there was no evidence that would mean they were actually winning against the Flood.
Agreed with both points, perhaps in the expanded lore or shows/films it will be amended. Sort of like how Peter Jackon had to amend some for the LOTR films.
> 2533274827562449;13:
> > 2533274794866970;11:
> > > 2533274806469514;9:
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > > 2533274869999832;10:
> > >
>
> Agreed with both points, perhaps in the expanded lore or shows/films it will be amended. Sort of like how Peter Jackon had to amend some for the LOTR films.
Thinking about a potential amendment; maybe they can say it was due to some Gravemind/Precursor mind power.
For example this description for events at the map Tyrant: ’'Grasping impossible filaments buried beneath reality by the long-vanished Precursors, Gravemind pulled at strands that twisted and warped real space. Walls made of collapsed star matter cracked and shattered, entire fleets of kilometre-long warships vanished in flares of scathing light, and colony planetoids were ripped’’ - it could be argued that the Gravemind’s vast thinking power was put to making everyone ignorant (in fact that sort of fits in with the Halo theme of biblical references - think of God hardening Pharaoh’s heart in Exodus and sending plagues).
I get that within the quote it makes mention of some kind of dormant Precursor tech in terms of filaments; it can be argued that since the Precursors created Humanity and Forerunner in the Haloverse, they have some kind of control of them - maybe something like the Forerunner Gaes.
OH… are you talking about Greg Bears forerunner trilogy. that was a great series. brings a whole new light to 343 guilty spark (chakkas) librarian, didact, primordial and all the rest! Yes ancient humanity dident ask for help fighting the flood while they were simotaniously fighting promethans making them think they had a cure… but there is no cure. sadly.
> 2535410704700107;15:
> OH… are you talking about Greg Bears forerunner trilogy. that was a great series. brings a whole new light to 343 guilty spark (chakkas) librarian, didact, primordial and all the rest! Yes ancient humanity dident ask for help fighting the flood while they were simotaniously fighting promethans making them think they had a cure… but there is no cure. sadly.
I do believe they DID find a cure but withheld it?
> 2533274827562449;16:
> > 2535410704700107;15:
> > OH… are you talking about Greg Bears forerunner trilogy. that was a great series. brings a whole new light to 343 guilty spark (chakkas) librarian, didact, primordial and all the rest! Yes ancient humanity dident ask for help fighting the flood while they were simotaniously fighting promethans making them think they had a cure… but there is no cure. sadly.
>
> I do believe they DID find a cure but withheld it?
The cure was revealed to be a ruse by the flood. When it was deployed, the flood withdrew to make it look like the cure affected and destroyed them. They did this so that the forerunners would have a reason to spare humanity and waste time searching for said “cure.”
> 2533274827562449;16:
> > 2535410704700107;15:
> > OH… are you talking about Greg Bears forerunner trilogy. that was a great series. brings a whole new light to 343 guilty spark (chakkas) librarian, didact, primordial and all the rest! Yes ancient humanity dident ask for help fighting the flood while they were simotaniously fighting promethans making them think they had a cure… but there is no cure. sadly.
>
> I do believe they DID find a cure but withheld it?
No they didn’t. I don’t want to spoil the books for those who haven’t read it. my memories a little fuzzy but I believe the at Charum Hakkor the last strong hold of the old humans, or actually the master builder they had captured a primordial in a time thing. anyways it escapes and then is recaptured by the Didact (Ur or Iso cant remember.) The didact along with Chakkas who dies, and then through a composer, is turned into the all famous 343 Guilty Spark. (Chakkas is 343 GS) and they confront the primordial. to make a long argument short ill give you a piece of what he says and let you figure it out… “Work, Fight, Live… all the sweeter. mind after mind will shape and absorb. in the end. All shall be quiet wisdom.” So yeah. basically the flood was created by the last primordial, the precurser I think it was? as a punishment for the Promethians, humans and other species for hunting down and killing their creators. and that is basically the story of halo. seeing how long everyone can push away inevitable fate… makes you kind of sad. right??
> 2533274806469514;9:
> Humans likely thought they could handle it on their own. The main problem here is that ancient humanity( need a better name) if I recall from the books destroyed the original powder, their infected pheru and all other proof of the flood origins. The forerunners had nothing to go off of besides infected worlds and human fleets glassing other civilization’s planets.
“Powder”? can you tell me what book you remember this from? when you say powder your revering to a cure?
> 2535410704700107;19:
> > 2533274806469514;9:
> > Humans likely thought they could handle it on their own. The main problem here is that ancient humanity( need a better name) if I recall from the books destroyed the original powder, their infected pheru and all other proof of the flood origins. The forerunners had nothing to go off of besides infected worlds and human fleets glassing other civilization’s planets.
>
> “Powder”? can you tell me what book you remember this from? when you say powder your revering to a cure?
No, the powder that the precursors turned into that was eventually discovered by humanity and the san shyuum. Same powder they put into their pets that allowed more beautiful fur and eventually backfired centuries later to became the first flood forms.