An idea to satisfy Halo fans across the divide

After participating in Halo Infinite’s tech preview and reading many forum posts on here with player’s feedback I have noticed something disheartening. Halo fans are extremely spiteful and disrespectful to one another. There is a MASSIVE divide between Halo fans. One group prefers the slow paced style of combat Halo once was under Bungie and another group prefers the fast paced movement capabilities brought by 343i. I have noticed that the former tend to insult and berate the latter for voicing their opposition to the loss of Spartan Abilities in Infinite. As a result the latter don’t feel welcomed in the Halo community so they don’t share their opinions.

I believe I may have found a compromise that both parties might be willing to accept. Hear me out

In Halo Infinite there are armor customizations (similar to MCC/Reach) but these are simply cosmetic and serve no greater purpose than aesthetics. What if these attachments weren’t just for looks. Imagine every single player having the option to choose 2 armor attachments (per game) that would provide a unique function. The attachments could only be equipped prior to a multiplayer match and would not be changeable until the match was completed. 343i has a few abilities that are already fan favorites as well as new abilities that are well liked.

-Grapple Hook
-Thrusters
-Groud Pound
-Spartan Charge
-Auto Stabilize
-Repulser
-Speed Boost

Keep in mind you can only choose 2 attachments so you’d only have 2 of the abilities. But we can ALL mix and match. (I.E. Grapple Hook AND Ground Pound, or Spartan Charge AND Repulser). Each ability could be used continuously throughout the match (no limits) with cool downs between each successful use to optimize game balance. 343i could also develop more abilities for future updates to the game as it continues to evolve.

I am convinced this idea would not only create a compromise between the 2 rival factions of Halo fans but it will also provide a very unique and diverse style of game play unmatched by any in the gaming industry. I would love to hear anyone’s thoughts on this idea. However, if all you want to do is spread more of your vile hatred through insults and belittlement I will report your comment. I am looking for open conversation and constructive feedback only.

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> One group prefers the old sluggish tank style combat Halo once was under Bungie

This here is your first misconception: The old gameplay was never sluggish and even if it were, that was never the issue. You can just increase the speed of the game without shoehorning in mechanics that break the combat flow.

> 2533274970252675;1:
> I have noticed that the former insult and berate the latter for voicing their opposition to the loss of Spartan Abilities in Infinite. As a result the latter read these comments and don’t feel welcome to share their opinions.

Oh, you mean how it was literally for an entire decade, just the other way around? Classic fans being told to accept the mutations to the formula or to -Yoink- from the franchise?
I don’t condone this behaviour from either side, but it just strikes me as suspicious that is only becomes an issue now that Nu-Halo fans are suddenly on the receiving end.

> 2533274970252675;1:
> 343i has a few abilities that are already fan favorites as well as new abilities that are well liked.
>
> -Spartan Charge

Are you serious? Spartan Charge was massively despised by both sides of the fanbase, classics and zoomers alike.

> 2533274970252675;1:
> Keep in mind you can only choose 2 attachments so you’d only have 2 of the abilities. But we can ALL mix and match. (I.E. Grapple Hook AND Ground Pound, or Spartan Charge AND Repulser). Each ability could be used continuously throughout the match (no limits) with cool downs between each successful use to optimize game balance.

I am not hugely interested in multiplayer in the first place, but I remember one of the complaints against armor abilities in Reach and 4 was that, unlike weapons, it was impossible to tell which abilities an enemy player had equipped.
How would you suggest to fix this issue?

This does nothing to appease classic fans and Reach already tried this type of system which was disliked by most.

It doesn’t seem to me there is even such a split. I see much more concern about what weapons players spawn with–a divide that has existed since H2.

Are there really players concerned with the pace of the movement? I really don’t see that. Maybe a small minority. If there is a pace divide it seems to be one of TTK or the pace of gunfights.

The killtimes for the spawn weapons are pretty fast in this game. And the frequency shields are depleted or magazines are empty is pretty frequent.

Alot of guns only have one or two kills per magazine and that’s my biggest issue pace wise.

But I don’t see anyone really asking for Spartan abilities to return or Armor abilities. I think the majority of the community is happy for the return of equipment after Reach, h4, and H5 overly focused on abilities.

I’m not sure who is divided over this to be honest…
I generally feel as if there’s a pretty unified consensus that most people don’t like loadouts or armour abilities. You’re wanting to essentially add them both in.

Equipment spawning on a map allows curated gameplay. You’re not going to get a grapple hook on a map that won’t have it be effective. Equipment isn’t meant to be a huge thing that everyone should have.

I can’t imagine a worse scenario than actually spawning in with equipment like this in a normal match. Really eliminates the point of “cool gameplay moments” when everyone has access to everything all the time.

Attachments of what you’ve sort of described is what started splitting of the fanbase with Reach. Leave that for CoD and BF. Keep abilities as pickups as is. What you’ve suggested would take too much time to properly fine tune and balance tbh, if possible at all. I’m an old fan and I like Infinite’s direction. TTK and weapon buffs along with vehicle play changes are what is needed. Not classes IMO. I like the effort of your thinking though. You brought forth possible issues and solutions, which brings this type of discussion and criticism, which the community needs.

I think the armor customization should probably stay cosmetic. I want to choose the armor that looks coolest on my character and not have to change it for the equipment I want. However, it might be possible to give the player advance mobility.

This could potentially be it own playlist in matchmaking. I like having the equal starts and finding weapons and equipment on the field like in H3, so I’d want that to be an option for 4v4 and 12v12. But I see no reason why you can’t have a reach style (choose you own class) playlist too. Just set the equipment to unlimited use, and add a loadout screen.

I think this could be an option for custom games also. Once forge is up and running almost anything will be possible. It’s only a matter of time before someone makes a Titanfall game mode with grapples and mantis’s lol.

We definitely do not need Ground Pound and Thrusters back. They suck.

Spartan Charge will actually be a welcome addition. It’s basically an offensive Lunge Armor Ability.
When balanced for MP, the damage portion can be removed but it will have a knockback effect instead.

Any sort of starting loadout is a huge NO I’m my book.

This is a huge reason reach, 4, and 5 multi-player was so unpopular.

It doesn’t belong in halo.

> 2535441684912240;9:
> Any sort of starting loadout is a huge NO I’m my book.
>
> This is a huge reason reach, 4, and 5 multi-player was so unpopular.
>
> It doesn’t belong in halo.

Reach was one of the most populated and popular halos to ever come out.
Halo 5 criticism was mostly due to campaign the multiplayer was quite well received for the most part although some, in fairness, thought it was too far of a jump. The game did Not feature any loadouts in arena or btb gameplay.

Halo 4 was…… well not very good. That’s about all I can say about it. In did not like it as much as the other halos.

Im not advocating for loadouts but I’m fairly confident reach was the second highest halo game in both sales and population behind h3. I think calling it unpopular is a stretch.

> 2533274970252675;1:
> After participating in Halo Infinite’s tech preview and reading many forum posts on here with player’s feedback I have noticed something disheartening. Halo fans are extremely spiteful and disrespectful to one another. There is a MASSIVE divide between Halo fans. One group prefers the slow paced style of combat Halo once was under Bungie and another group prefers the fast paced movement capabilities brought by 343i. I have noticed that the former tend to insult and berate the latter for voicing their opposition to the loss of Spartan Abilities in Infinite. As a result the latter don’t feel welcomed in the Halo community so they don’t share their opinions.
>
> I believe I may have found a compromise that both parties might be willing to accept. Hear me out
>
> In Halo Infinite there are armor customizations (similar to MCC/Reach) but these are simply cosmetic and serve no greater purpose than aesthetics. What if these attachments weren’t just for looks. Imagine every single player having the option to choose 2 armor attachments (per game) that would provide a unique function. The attachments could only be equipped prior to a multiplayer match and would not be changeable until the match was completed. 343i has a few abilities that are already fan favorites as well as new abilities that are well liked.
>
> -Grapple Hook
> -Thrusters
> -Groud Pound
> -Spartan Charge
> -Auto Stabilize
> -Repulser
> -Speed Boost
>
> Keep in mind you can only choose 2 attachments so you’d only have 2 of the abilities. But we can ALL mix and match. (I.E. Grapple Hook AND Ground Pound, or Spartan Charge AND Repulser). Each ability could be used continuously throughout the match (no limits) with cool downs between each successful use to optimize game balance. 343i could also develop more abilities for future updates to the game as it continues to evolve.
>
> I am convinced this idea would not only create a compromise between the 2 rival factions of Halo fans but it will also provide a very unique and diverse style of game play unmatched by any in the gaming industry. I would love to hear anyone’s thoughts on this idea. However, if all you want to do is spread more of your vile hatred through insults and belittlement I will report your comment. I am looking for open conversation and constructive feedback only.

I have to say no to ground pound and spartan charge.

Sounds a lot like Halo 4 Loadouts.

> 2533274970252675;1:
> After participating in Halo Infinite’s tech preview and reading many forum posts on here with player’s feedback I have noticed something disheartening. Halo fans are extremely spiteful and disrespectful to one another. There is a MASSIVE divide between Halo fans. One group prefers the slow paced style of combat Halo once was under Bungie and another group prefers the fast paced movement capabilities brought by 343i. I have noticed that the former tend to insult and berate the latter for voicing their opposition to the loss of Spartan Abilities in Infinite. As a result the latter don’t feel welcomed in the Halo community so they don’t share their opinions.
>
> I believe I may have found a compromise that both parties might be willing to accept. Hear me out
>
> In Halo Infinite there are armor customizations (similar to MCC/Reach) but these are simply cosmetic and serve no greater purpose than aesthetics. What if these attachments weren’t just for looks. Imagine every single player having the option to choose 2 armor attachments (per game) that would provide a unique function. The attachments could only be equipped prior to a multiplayer match and would not be changeable until the match was completed. 343i has a few abilities that are already fan favorites as well as new abilities that are well liked.
>
> -Grapple Hook
> -Thrusters
> -Groud Pound
> -Spartan Charge
> -Auto Stabilize
> -Repulser
> -Speed Boost
>
> Keep in mind you can only choose 2 attachments so you’d only have 2 of the abilities. But we can ALL mix and match. (I.E. Grapple Hook AND Ground Pound, or Spartan Charge AND Repulser). Each ability could be used continuously throughout the match (no limits) with cool downs between each successful use to optimize game balance. 343i could also develop more abilities for future updates to the game as it continues to evolve.
>
> I am convinced this idea would not only create a compromise between the 2 rival factions of Halo fans but it will also provide a very unique and diverse style of game play unmatched by any in the gaming industry. I would love to hear anyone’s thoughts on this idea. However, if all you want to do is spread more of your vile hatred through insults and belittlement I will report your comment. I am looking for open conversation and constructive feedback only.

This idea is terrible.

All I see is someone who feels they are part of the latter community and particularly the H5 crowd. Loadouts don’t belong in Halo PVP ever.

Thank you for your thoughts, but I truly hope we never return to the horrors of Halo 4’s mediocrity.

Yes this would balance it, but you are forgetting that this isn’t ONLY a spiritual reboot, and if so, the spiritual reboot was for the Former of the fanbases. The two sides would still bicker, maybe even more. And not EVERYONE is insulting, and not ONLY is it the zoomers who are being beat on. Halo Infinite is trying to right the wrongs not only of 343, but of Bungie as well. So having attachments that work almost the same way as armor abilities? Not that great of a plan. But I do like how you think, so maybe find an alternative for people who maybe don’t like it? So you can have this suggestion and a suggestion that is kind of different so that people can choose.

Sorry to join in and leave negative criticism, because you do seem to care and put effort into thinking this up as a way to bridge the community.

As others have said however, loadouts don’t work well, we had multiple games where we tried this. Placing movement mechanics as a map item, as TheDonCJG said allow the game to be curated in a way loadouts can’t. This shouldn’t be a negative factor for those that value movement as long as these pick-ups are common on the map. As a map pick-up they can be stronger and more impactful to the game, as the limitations on availability and usage rein in the overall potential. Compared to on spawn where mechanics have to be finely nerfed (like sprint has) to make it work in any capacity, since it being strong on spawn contorts the game to revolve around that mechanic.

Players soon find out the optimal settings as we found out in H4. It just becomes an eternal balancing struggle and unlike League of legends, Halo doesn’t get balance updates every 2 weeks to satisfy the level of fine tuning that would need. I believe, as many others do, that what we have now (and funnily enough MLG Reach settings where equipment was a map pick-up, which fell on deaf ears on the forums during H4 and H5) is the best compromise.

Currently

  • the balance between PC and Console
  • AR vs BR starts and by extension weapon balance / mechanics
  • and core Halo features like friendly fire, RvB, player collision etc
    are the biggest points of contention. The first two imo will determine whether the game will have longevity or not.

so your plan for an ultimate compromise between legacy and h5 would be… custom loadout armor abilites? two of them??

armor abilities were one of the most maligned features in reach and halo 4 my guy. vets and halo 5 fans mutually agree that halo should have equal starts. your suggestion pleases neither side.

Honestly, I think the divide is overrated.

The complaints / disagreements always stick out loudest, and people that get personal or nasty over it tend to leave a big impression.

But for twenty years Halo “fans” have been tearing chunks out of each other. I think there is a substantial, and relatively quiet majority, that roll with it, have their likes and dislikes, but comport themselves like adults.

What I’m saying is: don’t take the noisiest elements too seriously. I’m fairly sure 343 don’t, and Bungie didn’t.

The flight felt like it was back to basics, but sort of a reboot as well.

One fun thing 343 has to do is sort out the solid feedback from the noise. Not that I’m coming in here to smack down your suggest, but it’s a touchy subject given how it went over in the past.

I think what makes Infinite good, is it’s 2021. Where every game has a bunch of menus and “cool stuff” to mess around with, which is mostly baked in to get you to sink time into things - OR - to be fodder to cover up balance issues, etc.

It’s refreshing to just run out of spawn with an MA40 like everyone else. Even jumping into this flight initially felt sluggish given I stick to movement shooters, but that feeling wore off as I settled in. For the most part, the way the combat is right now is what I would call “for purists” sorta, kinda. Like it’s kinda basic, but not basic.

Like I got a few buddies in who have long since been annoyed with TDM modes in most franchises the past 10 years, but we were laughing our heads off in the Infinite Sandbox.

Infinite is slow compared to it’s peers, but it’s not CE either. Plus I really want to point out that most of the hate you see if from very inconsiderate squeaky wheels. Most people I’ve had disagreements with just state their case and don’t take it personally.

Additionally, I want to say it’s way too late in the development cycle (2 months till launch, if no further delays) to be throwing in whole new systems. On top of that, we should be providing feedback about bugs and issues with what’s given to us in the flight testing. I’m sure they appreciate suggestions, but this thing is getting ready to ship. 343 has already picked out what they want to use for this game and they’re working on the final tweaks and polish.

Although smaller suggestions like “Can we make fully automatic skewers in Forge” and “Can we change the S7 bullets to grenades in Forge” are solid ways to help everyone relieve stress :smiley:

> 2535473635314008;10:
> > 2535441684912240;9:
> > Any sort of starting loadout is a huge NO I’m my book.
> >
> > This is a huge reason reach, 4, and 5 multi-player was so unpopular.
> >
> > It doesn’t belong in halo.
>
> Reach was one of the most populated and popular halos to ever come out.
> Halo 5 criticism was mostly due to campaign the multiplayer was quite well received for the most part although some, in fairness, thought it was too far of a jump. The game did Not feature any loadouts in arena or btb gameplay.
>
> Halo 4 was…… well not very good. That’s about all I can say about it. In did not like it as much as the other halos.
>
> Im not advocating for loadouts but I’m fairly confident reach was the second highest halo game in both sales and population behind h3. I think calling it unpopular is a stretch.

Reach was one of the most populated halo games because it was following halo 3’s success. It’s player base did not stick around like it did for halo 3.

I remember the first few days of halo 3’s launch and seeing over 1 million concurrent players online, it brought a ton of new players to the halo franchise.

Armor lock was one of the most unpopular additions to halo behind promethian vision. There was always a debate and outcry to Change or remove it from everyone.

Not many people at the time liked the addition of armor abilities because they were chasing the cod load out trend.
Reach forever changed halo, whether good or bad is up for debate.

Was it a good game? Yes, firefight was a great addition to it, and the campaign was good.
But unpopular? Yes, because of the abrupt change from halo 3 did not set well with a large portion of the fan base.

I believe after halo 4 and 5 people started looking back on reach more fondly. Mainly after 4.

Also being bungies final halo game adds to the feels.

Halo 5 was just an unbalanced S—show. Campaign and multi-player were bad.
A completely unnecessary addition to the halo franchise that added nothing, which is exactly why infinite is taking a different path thankfully, and is already getting great feedback for it.

Halo 4…yeah, nuff said.

as a player who like both iterations of 343 and bungie this isn’t the way to solve it. Your method of people bringing abilities into the match never was well liked before (ex: reach). I liked that fast paced movement in halo 5 but all the abilities and op starter weapons made the game feel lifeless and not like a halo game. This game i think has done a good job of adding abilities (that spawn around the map) and sprint/slide mechanics (really nerfed compared to halo 5). This allows both types of players to keep aspects of their own games but i will admit that infinite is favoring classic halo (which i prefer). Halo got popular from classic halo so it makes sense why they would return to the formula halo infinite.

Ps: I said i liked 343s iteration just because it was fast paced but i think halo infinities pace is overall better because its more calm and collected but still has elements to make it fast paced like the grapple.