An Idea for Precision Weapon Balance

Games Halo 5: Guardians
#1

Originally I had an idea for precision weapons that would involve two for each faction (UNSC:BR/DMR) Covenant (CC/NR) Forerunner (LR/Unknown).

I realized how crowded that would be in the sandbox and I have to say, I think one rifle for each faction is enough. Going back on my original idea, I figured each rifle should fill its own range and role in the sandbox.

(Edit: The arrows are supposed to be greater than or less than, I dont know why waypoint changes them)

UNSC(Battle Rifle)

Covenant(Covenant Carbine)

Forerunner(Light Rifle)

Red Reticule Range: LR>BR>CC
Accuracy: LR>BR>CC
Rate of Fire: CC>BR>LR
Kill Time: CC>BR>LR

-The Carbine would be your fast firing, closer ranged weapon that kills the fastest of any of the rifles, but suffers at range.

-The Battle Rifle would be your middle man that works alright at greater ranges, but can also hold its own up close.

-The Light Rifle would be your long range rifle and would retain its 3x scope for this purpose. The dual fire modes would still exist, but the burst fire mode would kill the slowest of any of the three rifles.

Thoughts on this idea for rifle balance? (Or your own)

#2

I prefer the CE/2/3 method: you start with a versatile mid-range precision weapon and better weapons are put on the map. I don’t like the class-based type of gameplay brought on by loadouts.

#3

I agree with the sentiment that the precision sandbox is a little crowded. That said I would swap Carbine out for the N’ifle.

The Carbine is a functional clone of the BR while the N’ifle is a functional clone of the DMR.

So if we keep the BR as the utility, the N’ifle would have a more unique position in the sandbox compared to the Carbine.

The BR would be the utility weapons that fits in the middle of the sandbox. The N’ifle is a longer range/lower DPS alternative to the BR. Meanwhile the LR would basically be the “high Tier” Precision weapon and only be available from pickup. Though preferably everything would be.

#4

> I prefer the CE/2/3 method: you start with a versatile mid-range precision weapon and better weapons are put on the map. I don’t like the class-based type of gameplay brought on by loadouts.

I wouldn’t mind when we would return to completely identical starts but I think there are questions like:

  1. what will you do with the quite balanced (unique) counterparts?
  2. which exact weapon(s) will become the new starter?

Personally, I would prefer to spawn/play with and against a precision weapon with a single shot mechanic (like DMR/CC) and not with a burst mechanic (BR) but other people prefer to spawn/play with weapons like the BR.

So perhaps a random selection? For example, one game all spawn with BRs and ARs and perhaps the next game all could potentially spawn with CC and Plasma Rifles?
Besides, you could (preferably) consider the gametype and the map as well.

To the OP:
Yes, in regards to the multiplayer I think one precision rifle for each faction is enough, otherwise you will very likely end up with weapons that are all way too similar to each other.

#5

> > I prefer the CE/2/3 method: you start with a versatile mid-range precision weapon and better weapons are put on the map. I don’t like the class-based type of gameplay brought on by loadouts.
>
> I wouldn’t mind when we would return to completely identical starts but I think there are questions like:
> 1. what will you do with the quite balanced (unique) counterparts?
> 2. which exact weapon(s) will become the new starter?
>
> Personally, I would prefer to play with and against a precision weapon with a single shot mechanic (like DMR/CC) and not with a burst mechanic (BR) but other people prefer to play with weapons like the BR.
>
> So perhaps a random selection? For example, one game all spawn with BRs and ARs and perhaps the next game all could potentially spawn with CC and Plasma Rifles?
> Besides, you could (preferably) consider the gametype and the map as well.

Most of the “counterparts” ought to be removed or given unique properties. The Halo sandbox is large enough that we don’t need to rely on functional clones to fill the sandbox.

As far as the starter I would say the BR begrudgingly. I prefer single shot weapons too and I wouldn’t care if we started with an alien weapon either. Unfortunately that is not the same throughout the rest of the community as the BR is simply more popular than the DMR they also seem to dislike the (insert color here) weapons.

Alternative gametypes are a possibility but ultimately functional clones just add bloat to the sandbox. Leaving only one “Utility” weapons creates room for the other weapons to create and dominate their niche.

#6

I am fine with counterparts as long as they work like the NR vs the DMR or the CC vs the BR in which they are basically the same but they provide two different playstyles to use effectively.

Also Boo to the BR its bleedthrough is literally the only thing I hate about it but if you get rid of that BAM! You have a UP wep.

OP, I am not the biggest fan of your idea I would prefer restricted load-outs and weps on the maps and the weps function like they do now.

#7

If we’re going to go back to identical starts, the starts should definitely be in context to the map and almost certainly mustn’t be random.

Having DMR starts on a map like Midship would certainly be very awkward. As one would have a lot of trouble trying to be effective with a strictly long range weapon on a strictly close range map.

On a map like Blood Gulch, where being stuck with a close ranged Assault Rifle makes you defenseless if you happen to walk into the center of the map should certainly start the player off with a BR to ensure that you’re not trapped in close range, or stagnating flow at long range with a DMR or an LR.

#8

> 1. what will you do with the quite balanced (unique) counterparts?

This:

> Most of the “counterparts” ought to be removed or given unique properties.

I hear people all the time talk about “weapon variety,” but the truth is that in Halo 4’s loadouts, there are actually only three primary weapons: close-quarters automatic, mid-range precision, and long-range precision. Really, what need have we of a Storm Rifle when we have the Assault Rifle? It would be better to replace the Storm Rifle with the Plasma Rifle because the Plasma Rifle a unique abilities that no other weapon has (shield-stripping and stunning). In this way, weapons will have reasons to be available other than just “variety.”

The big problem with counterparts is balance. Giving the same role to different weapons is asking for trouble because the weapons will never be completely balanced. Someone will always be dissatisfied with the balance because their favorite weapon is disadvantaged compared to another weapon in some way.

In my opinion, the problems and imbalances created by having functional clones in loadouts outweigh the benefits.

> 2. which exact weapon(s) will become the new starter?

Does it really matter? The difference between a Carbine-starts game and a BR-starts game is really just the firing sound you hear. The aspects of gameplay that are actually important–roles, strategies, and power positions–are unaffected.

> Personally, I would prefer to spawn/play with and against a precision weapon with a single shot mechanic (like DMR/CC) and not with a burst mechanic (BR) but other people prefer to spawn/play with weapons like the BR.

One way would be to have different gametypes for different starting weapons. Halo 4’s SWAT playlist does this: SWAT, Covenant SWAT, and Forerunner SWAT.

Another way would be to buff a counterpart and put it on the map. Halo: Reach does this: players spawn with DMRs and the slightly superior Needle Rifle spawns on the map.

#9

> >
>
> Most of the “counterparts” ought to be removed or given unique properties. The Halo sandbox is large enough that we don’t need to rely on functional clones to fill the sandbox.
>
> As far as the starter I would say the BR begrudgingly. I prefer single shot weapons too and I wouldn’t care if we started with an alien weapon either. Unfortunately that is not the same throughout the rest of the community as the BR is simply more popular than the DMR they also seem to dislike the (insert color here) weapons.
>
> Alternative gametypes are a possibility but ultimately functional clones just add bloat to the sandbox. Leaving only one “Utility” weapons creates room for the other weapons to create and dominate their niche.

It’s just that spawning and playing with the same kind of precision weapon over and over again in every single match is monotonous and hence gets dull at one point, especially when it isn’t your favorite or rather its mechanics aren’t your favorites.
That doesn’t mean that I am a fan of the weapon/gun-paly variety that the current loadout system trys to achieve (what ironically doesn’t bring much weapon/gun-play variety into the game anyway) but a “random” or rather appropriate buildup of the identical loadout before the game starts would actually achieve that variety. Not during the games but between the games.

However, I agree that clones or simply reskins of weapons shouldn’t exist in Halo’s multiplayer sandbox but I think when weapons share the same niche but have different mechanics they have a place in the sandbox. They just don’t belong on the same map or rather into the same match though.

#10

> I hear people all the time talk about “weapon variety,” but the truth is that in Halo 4’s loadouts, there are actually only three primary weapons: close-quarters automatic, mid-range precision, and long-range precision. Really, what need have we of a Storm Rifle when we have the Assault Rifle? It would be better to replace the Storm Rifle with the Plasma Rifle because the Plasma Rifle a unique abilities that no other weapon has (shield-stripping and stunning). In this way, weapons will have reasons to be available other than just “variety.”
>
> The big problem with counterparts is balance. Giving the same role to different weapons is asking for trouble because the weapons will never be completely balanced. Someone will always be dissatisfied with the balance because their favorite weapon is disadvantaged compared to another weapon in some way. In my opinion, the problems and imbalances created by having functional clones in loadouts outweigh the benefits.

I agree with you that reskins like the Suppressor or the Storm Rifle are quite redundant in the multiplayer sandbox but I was more aiming at weapons that share the same role but have different mechanics and hence play different (BR and CC).
That they won’t be completely balanced isn’t what I have been aiming for nor what I want since that would make them eventually identical.
I just think they should be equally available.
(Hence my suggestion of a “random” buildup for the identical loadout).

> Does it really matter? The difference between a Carbine-starts game and a BR-starts game is really just the firing sound you hear. The aspects of gameplay that are actually important–roles, strategies, and power positions–are unaffected.

To me it does since the “gun-play” is different between a burst weapon like the BR and a single shot weapon like the DMR/CC not just the sound and appearance. :slight_smile:

> One way would be to have different gametypes for different starting weapons. Halo 4’s SWAT playlist does this: SWAT, Covenant SWAT, and Forerunner SWAT.
>
> Another way would be to buff a counterpart and put it on the map. Halo: Reach does this: players spawn with DMRs and the slightly superior Needle Rifle spawns on the map.

The issue with different gametypes that require votes is that the majority always decides what gets played and what not.
Even though it is democratic, it’s the same why I dislike when Slayer and Objective gets contained into the same playlist. Objective is rarely voted most of the time, the same would likely happen with a Carbine start when it would be an option.
Why I think a “random” buildup would fit better.

But then it would require a significant buff or it would have to be extremely effective in its limited niche but quite useless outside of it (Plasma Pistol), so it fulfills a special role in the game other than being a slightly better counter part.
For example I think a 3sk lightrifle (scoped) would be a worthy pick up, since it can already be considered a power weapon. Something like the needle rifle in Reach wouldn’t be, in my opinion, since it just plays the role of the slightly better counterpart.
Plus it wouldn’t change the fact that the player would still be forced to spawn with the same weapon in every game.

#11

> It’s just that spawning and playing with the same kind of precision weapon over and over again in every single match is monotonous and hence gets dull at one point, especially when it isn’t your favorite or rather its mechanics aren’t your favorites.
> That doesn’t mean that I am a fan of the weapon/gun-paly variety that the current loadout system trys to achieve (what ironically doesn’t bring much weapon/gun-play variety into the game anyway) but a “random” or rather appropriate buildup of the identical loadout before the game starts would actually achieve that variety. Not during the games but between the games.
>
>
> However, I agree that clones or simply reskins of weapons shouldn’t exist in Halo’s multiplayer sandbox but I think when weapons share the same niche but have different mechanics they have a place in the sandbox. They just don’t belong on the same map or rather into the same match though.

I can see the issue with spawning with the same weapon over time. However the real issue is that the other on map weapons have not been worth picking up. Why pick up a Carbine when I have a BR? Despite the visual differences the nearly identically. This isn’t a problem with just BR/Carbine. AR/SR, SMG/PR(post CE), the list goes on and on.

These weapons look different and vary ever so slightly in performance but when all is said and done they are the same weapon. Its all so superficial that the “variety” point is moot no matter how you set it up.

At the end of the day there is only so much development time available to balance a weapon sandbox that we should focus on including the more unique options before we bother including any clones. Weapon choice should be based on function before aesthetics.

#12

> I can see the issue with spawning with the same weapon over time. However the real issue is that the other on map weapons have not been worth picking up. Why pick up a Carbine when I have a BR? Despite the visual differences the nearly identically. This isn’t a problem with just BR/Carbine. AR/SR, SMG/PR(post CE), the list goes on and on.
>
> These weapons look different and vary ever so slightly in performance but when all is said and done they are the same weapon. Its all so superficial that the “variety” point is moot no matter how you set it up.
>
> At the end of the day there is only so much development time available to balance a weapon sandbox that we should focus on including the more unique options before we bother including any clones. Weapon choice should be based on function before aesthetics.

The amount of clones is indeed the main issue just as well as the non-power weapons on map.

To use your example, having a Carbine on the map while everyone spawns with a BR is completely redundant, since it has absoultely no purpose other than being there for the sake of having an alternative to the BR. It is simply not worth picking up like you have already said.
It even causes more harm to the game and map flow than it adds anything positive because the one player who prefers it over the BR will always walk back or rather will move against the intented map flow to pick it up.

That’s why I said and think that weapons like the BR and Carbine do not belong on the same map or into the same match.
But people prefer the Carbine not only for its aesthetics. Even though the BR and Carbine share the exact same niche they have different mechanics and hence play different. It might seems like a minor difference but I think it is more than enough to justify their places as weapons in the sandbox.

Anyway, I agree that the focus should be on the development of unique options and that the weapons on the map have to fulfill significant roles.

#13

> I prefer the CE/2/3 method: you start with a versatile mid-range precision weapon and better weapons are put on the map. I don’t like the class-based type of gameplay brought on by loadouts.

Class-based gameplay wasn’t really part of my plan. I think in the tradition of past games, for standard gamemodes you would start with the Battle Rifle and the CC and LR would be available for pickup on the map.

You would only spawn with the other rifles in either specialized gamemodes (Covie SWAT, Forerunner SWAT, etc…) or in gamemodes like invasion where you play as sangheili or forerunners/warriors.

#14

> I am fine with counterparts as long as they work like the NR vs the DMR or the CC vs the BR in which they are basically the same but they provide two different playstyles to use effectively.
>
> Also Boo to the BR its bleedthrough is literally the only thing I hate about it but if you get rid of that BAM! You have a UP wep.
>
> OP, I am not the biggest fan of your idea I would prefer restricted load-outs and weps on the maps and the weps function like they do now.

I prefer restricted loadouts as well. Just in regard to the rifles this is how I think they should play out.

You would still spawn with the BR or AR depending on the mode, and the other weapons would be available for pickup on the map. The only exceptions would be specialized gamemodes or invasion.

#15

> > I am fine with counterparts as long as they work like the NR vs the DMR or the CC vs the BR in which they are basically the same but they provide two different playstyles to use effectively.
> >
> > Also Boo to the BR its bleedthrough is literally the only thing I hate about it but if you get rid of that BAM! You have a UP wep.
> >
> > OP, I am not the biggest fan of your idea I would prefer restricted load-outs and weps on the maps and the weps function like they do now.
>
> I prefer restricted loadouts as well. Just in regard to the rifles this is how I think they should play out.
>
> You would still spawn with the BR or AR depending on the mode, and the other weapons would be available for pickup on the map. The only exceptions would be specialized gamemodes or invasion.

I HATE the BR. I love the carbine. There is no good reason to not to have choice between them. they are functionally the same, but handle differently, so why shouldn’t I and other Carbine lovers get the choice? The Carbine and BR are more or less balanced as is in Halo 4, when used correctly.

#16

> > > I am fine with counterparts as long as they work like the NR vs the DMR or the CC vs the BR in which they are basically the same but they provide two different playstyles to use effectively.
> > >
> > > Also Boo to the BR its bleedthrough is literally the only thing I hate about it but if you get rid of that BAM! You have a UP wep.
> > >
> > > OP, I am not the biggest fan of your idea I would prefer restricted load-outs and weps on the maps and the weps function like they do now.
> >
> > I prefer restricted loadouts as well. Just in regard to the rifles this is how I think they should play out.
> >
> > You would still spawn with the BR or AR depending on the mode, and the other weapons would be available for pickup on the map. The only exceptions would be specialized gamemodes or invasion.
>
> I HATE the BR. I love the carbine. There is no good reason to not to have choice between them. they are functionally the same, but handle differently, so why shouldn’t I and other Carbine lovers get the choice? The Carbine and BR are more or less balanced as is in Halo 4, when used correctly.

Your basing this all on how the Carbine and Battle Rifle play out in Halo 4. My idea would give them each unique range roles instead of filling the same one in different ways. (Just so were on the same page I’m a carbine lover as well, and its my most used weapon in Halo 4)

The truth is though that we are in the minority, and giving people these choices leads to more choices being added in the loadouts, such as the DMR, Boltshot, Plasma Pistol, etc…

We all know how the sandbox played out pre-TU, with the DMR dominating all. I’m trying to avoid that by making sure everyone spawns with the same weapons all the time.

Say you go into the team slayer playlist, and the voting options come up. You have three choices. One would be regular team slayer with ar starts, the second would be br starts, and the third would be carbine starts. These are just examples, other starts would be things like Light Rifles, Suppressors, Storm Rifles, etc…

It ensures variety in the weapons, but at the same time ensures equal starts.

#17

> > > > I am fine with counterparts as long as they work like the NR vs the DMR or the CC vs the BR in which they are basically the same but they provide two different playstyles to use effectively.
> > > >
> > > > Also Boo to the BR its bleedthrough is literally the only thing I hate about it but if you get rid of that BAM! You have a UP wep.
> > > >
> > > > OP, I am not the biggest fan of your idea I would prefer restricted load-outs and weps on the maps and the weps function like they do now.
> > >
> > > I prefer restricted loadouts as well. Just in regard to the rifles this is how I think they should play out.
> > >
> > > You would still spawn with the BR or AR depending on the mode, and the other weapons would be available for pickup on the map. The only exceptions would be specialized gamemodes or invasion.
> >
> > I HATE the BR. I love the carbine. There is no good reason to not to have choice between them. they are functionally the same, but handle differently, so why shouldn’t I and other Carbine lovers get the choice? The Carbine and BR are more or less balanced as is in Halo 4, when used correctly.
>
> Your basing this all on how the Carbine and Battle Rifle play out in Halo 4. My idea would give them each unique range roles instead of filling the same one in different ways. (Just so were on the same page I’m a carbine lover as well, and its my most used weapon in Halo 4)
>
> The truth is though that we are in the minority, and giving people these choices leads to more choices being added in the loadouts, such as the DMR, Boltshot, Plasma Pistol, etc…
>
> We all know how the sandbox played out pre-TU, with the DMR dominating all. I’m trying to avoid that by making sure everyone spawns with the same weapons all the time.
>
> Say you go into the team slayer playlist, and the voting options come up. You have three choices. One would be regular team slayer with ar starts, the second would be br starts, and the third would be carbine starts. These are just examples, other starts would be things like Light Rifles, Suppressors, Storm Rifles, etc…
>
> It ensures variety in the weapons, but at the same time ensures equal starts.

The Most Fair Way to do it is this:

Primaries:
Battle Rifle
Covenant Carbine
Assault Rifle1a
Storm Rifle1b

Secondaries
Magnum
Needle Pistol2
Plasma Rifle3a
SMG*3b

1x Frag starts with just below Halo Reach power, less grenade spamming, but power in the grenade compensate for the lack of multiple grenades

1a) Would have Headshot Multipliers, 18 shots to kill all body shots, 12 to kill all headshots, (Multiplier of 1.5), Make it have a tighter spread, so it can compete slightly better over range

1b)Give it the same stuff as the AR, but it is slightly less accurate, to compensate, it has the Halo CE plasma Rifle stun effect, making it more unique compared to the AR, also, introduce the vent feature from the Plasma Repeater to it, there is no need to include the slows down over time feature, venting it is just faster than letting it cool automatically, but leaves you out of combat.

  1. This is a “Pistolized” Needle Rifle, just with a lower magazine count and 1.5x zoom. I would like to see a return of Skirmishers using this, it fits better with them. It’s a lightweight Precision weapon pistol, fitting with the Jackal marksman abilities, but engineered to be the weapon carried by skirmishers. Just a personal Idea. anyway, it provides us with a pseudo DMR-NR relationship between the Magnum and Needle Pistol.

3a and b) These weapons are basically stronger at Extreme CQC than the Primary Automatics, but fail at range outside of that. Instead of having Headshot multipliers, they sit at a constant 16 shots anywhere to kill, with a higher spread.

This creates a balanced yet Diverse sandbox. The secondary automatics have a niche in that they out preform the primary automatics at Extreme CQC. This trait could be shared with the Secondary Precisions, in that at CQC they outperform the Primary ones. This gives an incentive to actually swap to a different weapon in combat to suit situations, instead of this current thing we have of Constant Primary out and the occasional use of the secondary.

Another Idea I had was that players could forgo their 1x Grenade to carry two Primaries at start, or get two grenades and carry 2 secondaries at start, just a thought

This Idea of “BRs all the way, -Yoink- the other people” is ridiculous and petty. BRs are nice and all, but some of us like a covie weapon. (This last line wasn’t aimed at you)

#18

LOVE this idea, except for the grenades suggestions.

Are these your loadout components? I think fixed loadouts would be better:

BR-SMG
CC-PR
AR-P
SR-NP

Also, shouldn’t the Covvie loadouts only be available to Elite players, and human loadouts for Spartans? I hope they go the H2-H3 route of Elites in matchmaking.

I wouldn’t even mind Stickies in the Covvie loadouts as long as they were harder to use. Remember CE where it took A LOT of skill to stick someone?

I’d give DMR & LR faster kill times than BR & CC, but less aim assist and more range.

#19

Ideal setup for an identical starts system:

-Players have choices of: Covenant(Carbine)/Forerunner(LR, placeholder)/Slayer(BR)

-Carbine is the rapid fire death-dealer it has always been, and should be a 7sk with a potentially faster killtime than the 1.42 BR. It should however be found on every map and be harder to use than the BR, but be more rewarding when used correctly. 2x Scope.

-The BR is the basic mainline weapon most players will find themselves spawning with. Easier than the carbine but no means a cake-walk, it provides reliable 4sk performance for experienced users and usually ends up killing in 5-6 bursts. 2x scope.

-DMR/Light Rifle, while never being the starting weapon of any of the above gametype variants they are offered on the map as pickups and retain the performance of their H4 variants. 3x Scope.

Ideal setup for a Class-based system:

If classes are re-implemented, they should limit you to a choice of only BR or CC. LR’s and DMR’s will continue to be on-map advantages. Rather than making the CC a potentially better weapon, it reverts to it’s Halo 4 capabilities and status, as does the BR.

Needle Rifle is still an iffy one, mainly due to it’s nature as a clone.

#20

> > > > > I am fine with counterparts as long as they work like the NR vs the DMR or the CC vs the BR in which they are basically the same but they provide two different playstyles to use effectively.
> > > > >
> > > > > Also Boo to the BR its bleedthrough is literally the only thing I hate about it but if you get rid of that BAM! You have a UP wep.
> > > > >
> > > > > OP, I am not the biggest fan of your idea I would prefer restricted load-outs and weps on the maps and the weps function like they do now.
> > > >
> > > > I prefer restricted loadouts as well. Just in regard to the rifles this is how I think they should play out.
> > > >
> > > > You would still spawn with the BR or AR depending on the mode, and the other weapons would be available for pickup on the map. The only exceptions would be specialized gamemodes or invasion.
> > >
> > > I HATE the BR. I love the carbine. There is no good reason to not to have choice between them. they are functionally the same, but handle differently, so why shouldn’t I and other Carbine lovers get the choice? The Carbine and BR are more or less balanced as is in Halo 4, when used correctly.
> >
> > Your basing this all on how the Carbine and Battle Rifle play out in Halo 4. My idea would give them each unique range roles instead of filling the same one in different ways. (Just so were on the same page I’m a carbine lover as well, and its my most used weapon in Halo 4)
> >
> > The truth is though that we are in the minority, and giving people these choices leads to more choices being added in the loadouts, such as the DMR, Boltshot, Plasma Pistol, etc…
> >
> > We all know how the sandbox played out pre-TU, with the DMR dominating all. I’m trying to avoid that by making sure everyone spawns with the same weapons all the time.
> >
> > Say you go into the team slayer playlist, and the voting options come up. You have three choices. One would be regular team slayer with ar starts, the second would be br starts, and the third would be carbine starts. These are just examples, other starts would be things like Light Rifles, Suppressors, Storm Rifles, etc…
> >
> > It ensures variety in the weapons, but at the same time ensures equal starts.
>
> The Most Fair Way to do it is this:
>
> Primaries:
> Battle Rifle
> Covenant Carbine
> Assault Rifle1a
> Storm Rifle1b
>
> Secondaries
> Magnum
> Needle Pistol2
> Plasma Rifle3a
> SMG*3b
>
> 1x Frag starts with just below Halo Reach power, less grenade spamming, but power in the grenade compensate for the lack of multiple grenades
>
> 1a) Would have Headshot Multipliers, 18 shots to kill all body shots, 12 to kill all headshots, (Multiplier of 1.5), Make it have a tighter spread, so it can compete slightly better over range
>
> 1b)Give it the same stuff as the AR, but it is slightly less accurate, to compensate, it has the Halo CE plasma Rifle stun effect, making it more unique compared to the AR, also, introduce the vent feature from the Plasma Repeater to it, there is no need to include the slows down over time feature, venting it is just faster than letting it cool automatically, but leaves you out of combat.
>
> 2) This is a “Pistolized” Needle Rifle, just with a lower magazine count and 1.5x zoom. I would like to see a return of Skirmishers using this, it fits better with them. It’s a lightweight Precision weapon pistol, fitting with the Jackal marksman abilities, but engineered to be the weapon carried by skirmishers. Just a personal Idea. anyway, it provides us with a pseudo DMR-NR relationship between the Magnum and Needle Pistol.
>
> 3a and b) These weapons are basically stronger at Extreme CQC than the Primary Automatics, but fail at range outside of that. Instead of having Headshot multipliers, they sit at a constant 16 shots anywhere to kill, with a higher spread.
>
> This creates a balanced yet Diverse sandbox. The secondary automatics have a niche in that they out preform the primary automatics at Extreme CQC. This trait could be shared with the Secondary Precisions, in that at CQC they outperform the Primary ones. This gives an incentive to actually swap to a different weapon in combat to suit situations, instead of this current thing we have of Constant Primary out and the occasional use of the secondary.
>
> Another Idea I had was that players could forgo their 1x Grenade to carry two Primaries at start, or get two grenades and carry 2 secondaries at start, just a thought
>
> This Idea of “BRs all the way, -Yoink!- the other people” is ridiculous and petty. BRs are nice and all, but some of us like a covie weapon. (This last line wasn’t aimed at you)

The problems with a custom loadout system can not be fixed, and a weapon that is more powerful than the others, no matter how slightly will always exist in the system.

The majority of players will use the weapon just because it is the best, defeating the purpose of the system’s existence in the first place. Only look to how fast the migration from the dmr to the br was for the majority of players post-tu in Halo 4 to know it is true.

Halo 1-3, and Reach did not have that problem because everyone always spawned with the same weapon. I never said that weapon always had to be the br (carbine starts, light rifle starts, etc…)but every player should always spawn with the same weapon no matter what that weapon is.

I can already see the problem with your loadout system in that your letting people spawn with automatics(AR, SR)and precisions (BR,CC) at the same time. This alone causes issues as gunfights will be determined simply by what you spawn with compared to your skill.

Catch somebody with a BR in a CQB situation when you have an AR? You win. They catch you in an open field with your AR? They win. Its rock-paper-scissors, but I don’t think that is how halo gunplay should be done. It should be about skill, not about what you chose to spawn with over what they chose to spawn with.