it has been speculated that we might not be able to swap armor pieces between armor cores. I was thinking about this when it occurred to me that there are 2 versions of Mark V in infinite, one for the Mark V core and one for Mark VII core. there are some armors that are similar (visually and/or role) but seem to be unique to specific armor cores. are we getting specific versions/evolutions pf armors depending on what armor core we use? Ive created a list of the known/possible armor cores and the armors and their possible counterparts (list is not complete, I’ll probably keep updating as we get more information).
Cores: Mark V : Mark VI? : Mark VII
mark V : Mark VI : Mark VII
Mark V : ? : Mark V Zeta
Scout : ? : Celox
EVA : Hermes : Zvezda
Recon : ? : Trailblazer
CQB : ? : ?
? : ? : Anubis
? : ? : Soldier
Commando : ? : ?
ODST (classic): ? : ODST (gen-3)
edit: this is a discussion/record of the similar armors between the cores (ie: mark v and mark v zeta), not a debate of whether or not core specific armors are a good thing.
We do know that not every customization option is locked to cores. Visors and coatings for instance set precedent for some things being usable on all cores.
My hope is that at the very least we’ll be able to mix helmets with every core, as I can think of 0 reason to not allow it. The rest could make sense fron a clipping standpoint, bet even then the simple solution is to just build cores in such a way that clipping is avoided. Shoulders should be very easy to do, perhaps knees and gloves as well.
Hopefully we get some armor available cross-core. It would really suck to be locked to specific cores to use certain helmets. Really would kill the whole “player expression” bit a lot imo.
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> …then the simple solution is to just build cores in such a way that clipping is avoided. Shoulders should be very easy to do, perhaps knees and gloves as well.
But wouldn’t that compromise the aesthetics?
All the cores would essentially have to be the same size and shape… at least around the bits that join.
I feel that would be a pretty big artistic compromise.
And from a technical view point… the combinations have to yield Spartan models (meshes and textures) that are optimised enough to function in-game. It’s all about pixels and frame-rates at the coal face.
> 2585548714655118;3:
> > 2533274866536985;2:
> > …then the simple solution is to just build cores in such a way that clipping is avoided. Shoulders should be very easy to do, perhaps knees and gloves as well.
>
> But wouldn’t that compromise the aesthetics?
>
> All the cores would essentially have to be the same size and shape… at least around the bits that join.
>
> I feel that would be a pretty big artistic compromise.
>
> And from a technical view point… the combinations have to yield Spartan models (meshes and textures) that are optimised enough to function in-game. It’s all about pixels and frame-rates at the coal face.
It doesn’t neccessarily have to compromise anything. Not if the armor is designed to be properly modular. And there’s no set rule saying that armor between gens will conflict. Mk V core and Mk VII core look extremely similar and no doubt many parts could work together just fine on both.
The optimization point makes no sense imo. All the suits are being designed for the game, they will all be optimized.
Being the same size and shame isn’t neccessarily required. Just have common mounting points. At the very least, it makes no sense to restrict helmets to cores, because all helmets fit in the exact same spot on every core and thus should never have any issue with clipping to begin with. Shoulders similarly should be workable as long as armor cores are designed in such a way to put them in relatively the same spot, which is what I would expect from shoulders anyways.
Things like gloves and knees can be harder to make fit everyrhing and thus make sense to be a bit more restricted. And of course chest piece attachments rely on the core used to fit on top of so those will be restricted to the core. But helmets and imo shoulders are no brainer for being entirely modular, no restrictions needed. Not to mention that they are the most distinctive part of your spartan’s look and it would be a shame if they were heavily restricted after the whole “player expression” spiel they told us.
> 2533274866536985;4:
> > 2585548714655118;3:
> > > 2533274866536985;2:
> > > …then the simple solution is to just build cores in such a way that clipping is avoided. Shoulders should be very easy to do, perhaps knees and gloves as well.
> >
> > But wouldn’t that compromise the aesthetics?
> >
> > All the cores would essentially have to be the same size and shape… at least around the bits that join.
> >
> > I feel that would be a pretty big artistic compromise.
> >
> > And from a technical view point… the combinations have to yield Spartan models (meshes and textures) that are optimised enough to function in-game. It’s all about pixels and frame-rates at the coal face.
>
> It doesn’t neccessarily have to compromise anything. Not if the armor is designed to be properly modular. And there’s no set rule saying that armor between gens will conflict. Mk V core and Mk VII core look extremely similar and no doubt many parts could work together just fine on both.
>
> The optimization point makes no sense imo. All the suits are being designed for the game, they will all be optimized.
>
> Being the same size and shame isn’t neccessarily required. Just have common mounting points. At the very least, it makes no sense to restrict helmets to cores, because all helmets fit in the exact same spot on every core and thus should never have any issue with clipping to begin with. Shoulders similarly should be workable as long as armor cores are designed in such a way to put them in relatively the same spot, which is what I would expect from shoulders anyways.
>
> Things like gloves and knees can be harder to make fit everyrhing and thus make sense to be a bit more restricted. And of course chest piece attachments rely on the core used to fit on top of so those will be restricted to the core. But helmets and imo shoulders are no brainer for being entirely modular, no restrictions needed. Not to mention that they are the most distinctive part of your spartan’s look and it would be a shame if they were heavily restricted after the whole “player expression” spiel they told us.
Forgive me… I come at this from a very naive relationship with armour lore.
If all the armour cores are similar… particularly where they join the other bits of armour… then yes - they should be easy to mix and match. I would have thought though, that the job of the different cores is to mix up the aesthetics a bit. There may be a couple of similar armour cores… that could work… but they just get cut off by a blanket rule of keeping the cores separated?
And the optimisation point would be important. The suits are designed for the game… but not the combinations thereof. You are relying on the game software to meld the meshes and optimise the polygons / textures / maps etc. These are unlikely to be the most optimal set ups… and if you have up to 24 poorly optimised Spartans running around the game engine may not be happy. I would definitely not be happy if all the characters on screen have weird clipping at the joints.
I can’t imagine 343 would have deliberately limited the choices. It would have been one of the cases where the design team said “we want to do this” and someone on the game engine team just sat there shaking their head.
They said in the multiplayer reveal that there are millions of customization options. So you could go core or have a mix of anything you want. More like Reach and less like H5.
> 2585548714655118;5:
> > 2533274866536985;4:
> > > 2585548714655118;3:
> > > > 2533274866536985;2:
> > > > …then the simple solution is to just build cores in such a way that clipping is avoided. Shoulders should be very easy to do, perhaps knees and gloves as well.
> > >
> > > But wouldn’t that compromise the aesthetics?
> > >
> > > All the cores would essentially have to be the same size and shape… at least around the bits that join.
> > >
> > > I feel that would be a pretty big artistic compromise.
> > >
> > > And from a technical view point… the combinations have to yield Spartan models (meshes and textures) that are optimised enough to function in-game. It’s all about pixels and frame-rates at the coal face.
> >
> > It doesn’t neccessarily have to compromise anything. Not if the armor is designed to be properly modular. And there’s no set rule saying that armor between gens will conflict. Mk V core and Mk VII core look extremely similar and no doubt many parts could work together just fine on both.
> >
> > The optimization point makes no sense imo. All the suits are being designed for the game, they will all be optimized.
> >
> > Being the same size and shame isn’t neccessarily required. Just have common mounting points. At the very least, it makes no sense to restrict helmets to cores, because all helmets fit in the exact same spot on every core and thus should never have any issue with clipping to begin with. Shoulders similarly should be workable as long as armor cores are designed in such a way to put them in relatively the same spot, which is what I would expect from shoulders anyways.
> >
> > Things like gloves and knees can be harder to make fit everyrhing and thus make sense to be a bit more restricted. And of course chest piece attachments rely on the core used to fit on top of so those will be restricted to the core. But helmets and imo shoulders are no brainer for being entirely modular, no restrictions needed. Not to mention that they are the most distinctive part of your spartan’s look and it would be a shame if they were heavily restricted after the whole “player expression” spiel they told us.
>
> Forgive me… I come at this from a very naive relationship with armour lore.
>
> If all the armour cores are similar… particularly where they join the other bits of armour… then yes - they should be easy to mix and match. I would have thought though, that the job of the different cores is to mix up the aesthetics a bit. There may be a couple of similar armour cores… that could work… but they just get cut off by a blanket rule of keeping the cores separated?
>
> And the optimisation point would be important. The suits are designed for the game… but not the combinations thereof. You are relying on the game software to meld the meshes and optimise the polygons / textures / maps etc. These are unlikely to be the most optimal set ups… and if you have up to 24 poorly optimised Spartans running around the game engine may not be happy. I would definitely not be happy if all the characters on screen have weird clipping at the joints.
>
> I can’t imagine 343 would have deliberately limited the choices. It would have been one of the cases where the design team said “we want to do this” and someone on the game engine team just sat there shaking their head.
Different cores do mix up aesthetics a bit. But that doesn’t mean they don’t have their similarities shoulders will always be on shoulders, helmets will always be on heads, etc. You can’t really move those around. Making all cores conform to certain patterns may be a bit more restrictive for devs but in turn is much more liberating for players in terms of what they can make with given combinations.
Even with common mounting points you can still mix up looks quite a bit. Take halo 4 for instance, or MCC halo 3. You can change out major parts like forearms and legs and body and still have everything completely modular and the aesthetics can vary greatly.
Infinite could be the same but simpler. Core replaces base armor. The parts go on top it gives a more cohesive look than the previous method while still allowing more customization than halo 5. Just leave common mounting points for shoulders and let’s helmets mix with any armor and toy are still left with a lot to work with. While giving players a lot of inter-core customization.
The idea of all armor elements being locked to a core is one that would be very depressing imo. Especially when it comes later down the line when we get new cores an the old ones get forgotten.being soft-locked out of new armor because tw pieces you like the most sent compatibly goes against the idea of increasing player expression imom At that point we might as well just have full body skins.
And no I doubt believe that armors could possibly have any significant impact on performance. Putting shoulders from one core onto armor of another should have no impact. The graphical budget is already built in with that if previous games could handle all armor pieces being entirely modular, with MCC even adding entirely new undersuit meshes over time, then no reason infinite can’t handle it. If the suits aren’t designed to be combined then imo that’s an issue with the designers, not the suits.
> 2533274866536985;7:
> > 2585548714655118;5:
> > > 2533274866536985;4:
> > > > 2585548714655118;3:
> > > > > 2533274866536985;2:
> > > > > …then the simple solution is to just build cores in such a way that clipping is avoided. Shoulders should be very easy to do, perhaps knees and gloves as well.
> > > >
> > > > But wouldn’t that compromise the aesthetics?
> > > >
> > > > All the cores would essentially have to be the same size and shape… at least around the bits that join.
> > > >
> > > > I feel that would be a pretty big artistic compromise.
> > > >
> > > > And from a technical view point… the combinations have to yield Spartan models (meshes and textures) that are optimised enough to function in-game. It’s all about pixels and frame-rates at the coal face.
> > >
> > > It doesn’t neccessarily have to compromise anything. Not if the armor is designed to be properly modular. And there’s no set rule saying that armor between gens will conflict. Mk V core and Mk VII core look extremely similar and no doubt many parts could work together just fine on both.
> > >
> > > The optimization point makes no sense imo. All the suits are being designed for the game, they will all be optimized.
> > >
> > > Being the same size and shame isn’t neccessarily required. Just have common mounting points. At the very least, it makes no sense to restrict helmets to cores, because all helmets fit in the exact same spot on every core and thus should never have any issue with clipping to begin with. Shoulders similarly should be workable as long as armor cores are designed in such a way to put them in relatively the same spot, which is what I would expect from shoulders anyways.
> > >
> > > Things like gloves and knees can be harder to make fit everyrhing and thus make sense to be a bit more restricted. And of course chest piece attachments rely on the core used to fit on top of so those will be restricted to the core. But helmets and imo shoulders are no brainer for being entirely modular, no restrictions needed. Not to mention that they are the most distinctive part of your spartan’s look and it would be a shame if they were heavily restricted after the whole “player expression” spiel they told us.
> >
> > Forgive me… I come at this from a very naive relationship with armour lore.
> >
> > If all the armour cores are similar… particularly where they join the other bits of armour… then yes - they should be easy to mix and match. I would have thought though, that the job of the different cores is to mix up the aesthetics a bit. There may be a couple of similar armour cores… that could work… but they just get cut off by a blanket rule of keeping the cores separated?
> >
> > And the optimisation point would be important. The suits are designed for the game… but not the combinations thereof. You are relying on the game software to meld the meshes and optimise the polygons / textures / maps etc. These are unlikely to be the most optimal set ups… and if you have up to 24 poorly optimised Spartans running around the game engine may not be happy. I would definitely not be happy if all the characters on screen have weird clipping at the joints.
> >
> > I can’t imagine 343 would have deliberately limited the choices. It would have been one of the cases where the design team said “we want to do this” and someone on the game engine team just sat there shaking their head.
>
> Different cores do mix up aesthetics a bit. But that doesn’t mean they don’t have their similarities shoulders will always be on shoulders, helmets will always be on heads, etc. You can’t really move those around. Making all cores conform to certain patterns may be a bit more restrictive for devs but in turn is much more liberating for players in terms of what they can make with given combinations.
>
> Even with common mounting points you can still mix up looks quite a bit. Take halo 4 for instance, or MCC halo 3. You can change out major parts like forearms and legs and body and still have everything completely modular and the aesthetics can vary greatly.
>
> Infinite could be the same but simpler. Core replaces base armor. The parts go on top it gives a more cohesive look than the previous method while still allowing more customization than halo 5. Just leave common mounting points for shoulders and let’s helmets mix with any armor and toy are still left with a lot to work with. While giving players a lot of inter-core customization.
>
> The idea of all armor elements being locked to a core is one that would be very depressing imo. Especially when it comes later down the line when we get new cores an the old ones get forgotten.being soft-locked out of new armor because tw pieces you like the most sent compatibly goes against the idea of increasing player expression imom At that point we might as well just have full body skins.
>
> And no I doubt believe that armors could possibly have any significant impact on performance. Putting shoulders from one core onto armor of another should have no impact. The graphical budget is already built in with that if previous games could handle all armor pieces being entirely modular, with MCC even adding entirely new undersuit meshes over time, then no reason infinite can’t handle it. If the suits aren’t designed to be combined then imo that’s an issue with the designers, not the suits.
guys, I think you both are are taking this an a far different direction than I had intended for this post. I had meant for this to be a discussion of the similar armors between the cores (ie: mark v and mark v zeta), not a debate of whether or not core specific armors are a good thing.
we have so little info on this the speculation is high me personally I think that the cores are just what do you want the base armor to be and the helmets, shoulders, wrists, thigh and so on are able to be put on different cores like say you want to use the gen 3 anuibs helmet on the mark V B core with what I said you can put a gen 3 helmet onto a gen 1 armor core which I think 343 wants to go with the customization of infinite