An analysis on rushing.

Hey, everyone! This is actually my first time posting on the forums, but I’ve been actively lurking since Halo Wars 2 came out. I’ve noticed there’s a lot of negative backlash on the concept of a “rush”, such as many players finding it difficult to counter, etc. I thought I’d throw in my two cents.

Feel free to skip over sections, I’m trying my best to explain all these concepts for newbies to the RTS genre.

Just a bit of background on myself- I’m an avid RTS (and, of course, Halo) fan. I’ve played SC2 for a number of years and made it to diamond league, and I dropped well over 500 hours onto the first Halo Wars to achieve the rank of general. On HW2, I’m rapidly approaching the 50 hour mark, which could be higher, but I feel like I have a fundamental enough feel for the game to at least make an informed post. As of now, I main Shipmaster, and sit at about a 60% win rate. It’s alright- could be better, could be worse. I’m excited for ranked to get a more accurate reading on how I perform, though.

NOW, into the actual substance of this.

To begin with- what is a ‘rush’?
Rushes are a fundamental part of any strategy game, but what are they? A rush is generally a rapid attack, meant to catch an opponent off guard and either deal enough damage to their economy to gain a late game advantage, or take them out of the game outright. Rushes are meant to hit before an opponent has finished building up their base, when they are not producing units. These attacks usually occur between the 2:30 marks and 5:00 marks in a match in HW2. A rush is not just your opponent attacking when you “aren’t ready”.

Next- what are timing attacks?
Another big part of many strategy games is timing attacks. At face value, these seem very similar to a rush, and I think this is causing a lot of confusion in the community as to what a “rush” truly is. A timing attack is an attack based off of a specific timing in the game- for example, a player sees their opponent is taking a second base early, and as a result attacks it right away to prevent the economic boost. Another example would be waiting just outside of a base to attack until an upgrade finishes. It’s very important to note that timing attacks are definitely not rushes. Let’s go into how.

Rushes VS Timing Attacks
To draw a distinction between the two, the first thing to look at is simply the game clock. If it has passed the 5 minute mark, you probably aren’t being rushed. However, you may still be unprepared for the attack at this point- so why wouldn’t that make it a rush? By the end of the 5 minute mark, your base should be fully built up if you are playing well. That means all 5 initial building slots are filled, you may have some turrets up, and your buildings are upgraded. Since your means of production and base are complete at this point, you cannot, by definition, be rushed. At this point, it all comes down to econ management.

If you decided to build multiple minibases and expand to a new base site in this timeframe, you have put yourself at a massive military disadvantage against a player who has focused on one base and cranked out units. Remember, one outpost is equivalent to 3-4 marine squads, or 5 grunt squads. This adds up! Those 5 extra units are enough to steamroll you that early in the game. Similarly, if you just built turrets on your main and stockpiled recourses, you are yet again at a big disadvantage in terms of military. This is when timing attacks come into play. If an opponent scouts you, and sees that you have invested into your economy while they invested into their military, this is when they would initiate a proper timing attack (while you are weak), to exploit your early game greed. This allows them to deny base expansions, power node captures, and overall gain an advantage. However, this is still not a rush.

If your opponent attacks you past the 5 minute mark and you “aren’t ready”, at that point it is a result of poor economic management and scouting, not a rush.

Dealing With Rushes
Scout, scout, scout. It’s relatively easy to get a scout unit out the gate by the 1:30 mark- ALWAYS DO THIS- DON’T PLAY BLIND! If you see a base with 4 unupgraded supply pads and 1 generator, odds are a rush is coming. Begin to construct turrets, and you will have 2-3 up by the time the rush hits. Couple this with some marines or grunts, and you should be fine.

To counter marine spam as Banished (I have some experience here), use suicide grunts. They are cheap and one can take out upwards of 5 marine squads when they are clumped.

Dealing With Timing Attacks & Counterplay
This is the trickier of the two. By the time timing attacks become a thing, the game is much more counterplay. I will sound like a broken record here, but ALWAYS SCOUT. See what your opponent is doing! If you see them massing grunts or marines, don’t try to expand. Mass grunts or marines of your own, so you don’t get steamrolled. Conversely, if you see your opponent preparing to expand early with your scout, try deny them the future economic boost by building up your army. In the 45-ish seconds it takes to build an outpost, you can capitalize on the extra recourses you have, build some marines or grunts, and attack! At this point, it’s all reactionary play. Keeping your scout alive and maintaining map awareness is essential.

In conclusion…
I hope I could help some of you guys understand that not everything before 7-10 minutes is a rush, and perhaps allow you to adjust your strategies accordingly.

Have any questions you want help with? Concerns? Hate this post, me, and everything I stand for? Please leave a comment! I’d love to interact with some of the community on here for the first time :3

Thanks for the read,
legofa3225

Scouting is one of the single most important things you can do, and so many people don’t do it, it’s amazing.

> 2533274831847301;2:
> Scouting is one of the single most important things you can do, and so many people don’t do it, it’s amazing.

It`s terrific xD

Yeah I really dont know whats so hard to send a GHost etc to the enemy :confused:

good topic

See, there’s the problem right there: You don’t event need to scout! You should ALWAYS rush, because if you rush your opponent, only one of the following 3 results could happen:

  • Your opponent is trying to expand production/economy(boom): his bases will be mostly undefended, and you’ll steamroll him for a early-game win. - Your opponent is trying to build up defenses(turtle): you will have total map control, and this gives you more resource and production capacity to pump higher tech tier units faster than him, which will eventually lead to a mid-game win. - Your opponent is trying to rush too: then it’s a tie for the early-game stage and you are simply back to square one.Win:Win:Tie, I wouldn’t call that good balance.

> 2533274807340992;5:
> See, there’s the problem right there: You don’t event need to scout! You should ALWAYS rush, because if you rush your opponent, only one of the following 3 results could happen:
> - Your opponent is trying to expand production/economy(boom): his bases will be mostly undefended, and you’ll steamroll him for a early-game win. - Your opponent is trying to build up defenses(turtle): you will have total map control, and this gives you more resource and production capacity to pump higher tech tier units faster than him, which will eventually lead to a mid-game win. - Your opponent is trying to rush too: then it’s a tie for the early-game stage and you are simply back to square one.Win:Win:Tie, I wouldn’t call that good balance.

That’s not entirely true.

Remember the standard RTS balance- rushing beats teching, turtling beats rushing, teching beats turtling. This applies strongly to HW2. If you turtle, and successfully defend the rush, you are placed at a colossal economic advantage. That 1000+ recourses your opponent spent and time not upgrading their supply pads, etc. puts them at a huge supply disadvantage.

Similarly, you rush if you see someone teching. Your opponent gets a fast expo- attack it whilst they are weak. This falls into the area of “timing attacks”.

While the marine rush is currently too strong for it’s own good, it can still be countered. Build turrets and units of your own. Each turret will compensate for about 3-4 actual troops, so using them to support an actual army (which you should be building regardless) will allow you to defend and proceed into the mid-late game with an advantage should you succeed. THAT is how it’s balanced.

> 2533274924073601;6:
> > 2533274807340992;5:
> > See, there’s the problem right there: You don’t event need to scout! You should ALWAYS rush, because if you rush your opponent, only one of the following 3 results could happen:
> > - Your opponent is trying to expand production/economy(boom): his bases will be mostly undefended, and you’ll steamroll him for a early-game win. - Your opponent is trying to build up defenses(turtle): you will have total map control, and this gives you more resource and production capacity to pump higher tech tier units faster than him, which will eventually lead to a mid-game win. - Your opponent is trying to rush too: then it’s a tie for the early-game stage and you are simply back to square one.Win:Win:Tie, I wouldn’t call that good balance.
>
> That’s not entirely true.
>
> Remember the standard RTS balance- rushing beats teching, turtling beats rushing, teching beats turtling. This applies strongly to HW2. If you turtle, and successfully defend the rush, you are placed at a colossal economic advantage. That 1000+ recourses your opponent spent and time not upgrading their supply pads, etc. puts them at a huge supply disadvantage.
>
> Similarly, you rush if you see someone teching. Your opponent gets a fast expo- attack it whilst they are weak. This falls into the area of “timing attacks”.
>
> While the marine rush is currently too strong for it’s own good, it can still be countered. Build turrets and units of your own. Each turret will compensate for about 3-4 actual troops, so using them to support an actual army (which you should be building regardless) will allow you to defend and proceed into the mid-late game with an advantage should you succeed. THAT is how it’s balanced.

I second this, I never have problems with rushing because I can effectively scout and counter it by turtling.

> 2533274927740213;7:
> > 2533274924073601;6:
> > > 2533274807340992;5:
> > > See, there’s the problem right there: You don’t event need to scout! You should ALWAYS rush, because if you rush your opponent, only one of the following 3 results could happen:
> > > - Your opponent is trying to expand production/economy(boom): his bases will be mostly undefended, and you’ll steamroll him for a early-game win. - Your opponent is trying to build up defenses(turtle): you will have total map control, and this gives you more resource and production capacity to pump higher tech tier units faster than him, which will eventually lead to a mid-game win. - Your opponent is trying to rush too: then it’s a tie for the early-game stage and you are simply back to square one.Win:Win:Tie, I wouldn’t call that good balance.
> >
> > That’s not entirely true.
> >
> > Remember the standard RTS balance- rushing beats teching, turtling beats rushing, teching beats turtling. This applies strongly to HW2. If you turtle, and successfully defend the rush, you are placed at a colossal economic advantage. That 1000+ recourses your opponent spent and time not upgrading their supply pads, etc. puts them at a huge supply disadvantage.
> >
> > Similarly, you rush if you see someone teching. Your opponent gets a fast expo- attack it whilst they are weak. This falls into the area of “timing attacks”.
> >
> > While the marine rush is currently too strong for it’s own good, it can still be countered. Build turrets and units of your own. Each turret will compensate for about 3-4 actual troops, so using them to support an actual army (which you should be building regardless) will allow you to defend and proceed into the mid-late game with an advantage should you succeed. THAT is how it’s balanced.
>
> I second this, I never have problems with rushing because I can effectively scout and counter it by turtling.

Another important thing to note is that if your idea of “building a defense” is just turrets and nothing else, you are doing it wrong. A proper turtle still uses an army, just supported by turrets and base defense. You can still obtain map control, especially if you play smart. There is no build in the game where you shouldn’t be building units. For the first 5 ish minutes, regardless of turtling, teaching, or rushing, a player should always be investing any spare recources into grunts or marines. To not do so is practically suicide- there is no truce to upgrade your units.

kinda hard to scout when you cant afford scouts.

> 2533274855353246;9:
> kinda hard to scout when you cant afford scouts.

You begin every match with two marines or grunts. If you proactively collect recourses and build an efficient economy, you will have enough for a scout. If you don’t, you are playing wrong.

> 2533274924073601;6:
> > 2533274807340992;5:
> > See, there’s the problem right there: You don’t event need to scout! You should ALWAYS rush, because if you rush your opponent, only one of the following 3 results could happen:
> > - Your opponent is trying to expand production/economy(boom): his bases will be mostly undefended, and you’ll steamroll him for a early-game win. - Your opponent is trying to build up defenses(turtle): you will have total map control, and this gives you more resource and production capacity to pump higher tech tier units faster than him, which will eventually lead to a mid-game win. - Your opponent is trying to rush too: then it’s a tie for the early-game stage and you are simply back to square one.Win:Win:Tie, I wouldn’t call that good balance.
>
> That’s not entirely true.
>
> Remember the standard RTS balance- rushing beats teching, turtling beats rushing, teching beats turtling. This applies strongly to HW2. If you turtle, and successfully defend the rush, you are placed at a colossal economic advantage. That 1000+ recourses your opponent spent and time not upgrading their supply pads, etc. puts them at a huge supply disadvantage.

Do NOT forget that this is no traditional RTS where you can build as many buildings as you want around your main base as long as your defense can cover them. In HW, expansion positions and power nodes are resources just as important as the other two. So when your turtle, you effectively give up these 2 resources. And that will surly put you at a economy/production disadvantage mid-late game.

For ex, a clear minded rusher will never attack your base head on if he’s welcomed by a fully turreted base(with assisting army or not). He will instead stop producing units and use his existing army to take all 5 power nodes on the map, which will soon give him enough power to upgrade existing supply pads and start taking expansion/mini bases(so he effectively turns to booming/teching immediately).

> 2533274807340992;11:
> > 2533274924073601;6:
> > > 2533274807340992;5:
> > > See, there’s the problem right there: You don’t event need to scout! You should ALWAYS rush, because if you rush your opponent, only one of the following 3 results could happen:
> > > - Your opponent is trying to expand production/economy(boom): his bases will be mostly undefended, and you’ll steamroll him for a early-game win. - Your opponent is trying to build up defenses(turtle): you will have total map control, and this gives you more resource and production capacity to pump higher tech tier units faster than him, which will eventually lead to a mid-game win. - Your opponent is trying to rush too: then it’s a tie for the early-game stage and you are simply back to square one.Win:Win:Tie, I wouldn’t call that good balance.
> >
> > That’s not entirely true.
> >
> > Remember the standard RTS balance- rushing beats teching, turtling beats rushing, teching beats turtling. This applies strongly to HW2. If you turtle, and successfully defend the rush, you are placed at a colossal economic advantage. That 1000+ recourses your opponent spent and time not upgrading their supply pads, etc. puts them at a huge supply disadvantage.
>
> Do NOT forget that this is no traditional RTS where you can build as many buildings as you want around your main base as long as your defense can cover them. In HW, expansion positions and power nodes are resources just as important as the other two. So when your turtle, you effectively give up these 2 resources. And that will surly put you at a economy/production disadvantage mid-late game.
>
> For ex, a clear minded rusher will never attack your base head on if he’s welcomed by a fully turreted base(with assisting army or not). He will instead stop producing units and use his existing army to take all 5 power nodes on the map, which will soon give him enough power to upgrade existing supply pads and start taking expansion/mini bases(so he effectively turns to booming/teching immediately).

To follow up on this- if you turtle properly, you should have enough of an economic advantage to crank out counter units and regain map control. Scouts are great early game, but 3 banshees supported by grunts will do the trick. Keep in mind that the opponent, when rushing, has not invested into their economy early, but instead units. This provides you with a timing sweet spot where you will have an economic advantage to start producing more advanced units than they can- effectively rolling you into the midgame.

Great post.

But I’d like to add that this applies only for UNSC vs UNSC or Banished vs Banished.

It does not apply to Banished vs UNSC because UNSC turtling teching or rushing will beat whatever Banished are doing.

Thank you for saying what was on my mind.

Good post, but it won’t change certain peoples’ opinion on the matter.

You cannot reason people out of positions they didn’t reason themselves into.

> 2533274924073601;12:
> > 2533274807340992;11:
> > > 2533274924073601;6:
> > > > 2533274807340992;5:
> > > > See, there’s the problem right there: You don’t event need to scout! You should ALWAYS rush, because if you rush your opponent, only one of the following 3 results could happen:
> > > > - Your opponent is trying to expand production/economy(boom): his bases will be mostly undefended, and you’ll steamroll him for a early-game win. - Your opponent is trying to build up defenses(turtle): you will have total map control, and this gives you more resource and production capacity to pump higher tech tier units faster than him, which will eventually lead to a mid-game win. - Your opponent is trying to rush too: then it’s a tie for the early-game stage and you are simply back to square one.Win:Win:Tie, I wouldn’t call that good balance.
> > >
> > > That’s not entirely true.
> > >
> > > Remember the standard RTS balance- rushing beats teching, turtling beats rushing, teching beats turtling. This applies strongly to HW2. If you turtle, and successfully defend the rush, you are placed at a colossal economic advantage. That 1000+ recourses your opponent spent and time not upgrading their supply pads, etc. puts them at a huge supply disadvantage.
> >
> > Do NOT forget that this is no traditional RTS where you can build as many buildings as you want around your main base as long as your defense can cover them. In HW, expansion positions and power nodes are resources just as important as the other two. So when your turtle, you effectively give up these 2 resources. And that will surly put you at a economy/production disadvantage mid-late game.
> >
> > For ex, a clear minded rusher will never attack your base head on if he’s welcomed by a fully turreted base(with assisting army or not). He will instead stop producing units and use his existing army to take all 5 power nodes on the map, which will soon give him enough power to upgrade existing supply pads and start taking expansion/mini bases(so he effectively turns to booming/teching immediately).
>
> To follow up on this- if you turtle properly, you should have enough of an economic advantage to crank out counter units and regain map control. Scouts are great early game, but 3 banshees supported by grunts will do the trick. Keep in mind that the opponent, when rushing, has not invested into their economy early, but instead units. This provides you with a timing sweet spot where you will have an economic advantage to start producing more advanced units than they can- effectively rolling you into the midgame.

Indeed there is a sweet window where a turtleer out-techs and out-ecos a rusher, but that window is very short considering HW’s unique game mechanics. I’d say it will be no longer than 2 minutes. Catching this fast fleeing window in a fanatic PvP game requires quite some skill.

> 2533274807340992;16:
> > 2533274924073601;12:
> > > 2533274807340992;11:
> > > > 2533274924073601;6:
> > > > > 2533274807340992;5:
> > > > > See, there’s the problem right there: You don’t event need to scout! You should ALWAYS rush, because if you rush your opponent, only one of the following 3 results could happen:
> > > > > - Your opponent is trying to expand production/economy(boom): his bases will be mostly undefended, and you’ll steamroll him for a early-game win. - Your opponent is trying to build up defenses(turtle): you will have total map control, and this gives you more resource and production capacity to pump higher tech tier units faster than him, which will eventually lead to a mid-game win. - Your opponent is trying to rush too: then it’s a tie for the early-game stage and you are simply back to square one.Win:Win:Tie, I wouldn’t call that good balance.
> > > >
> > > > That’s not entirely true.
> > > >
> > > > Remember the standard RTS balance- rushing beats teching, turtling beats rushing, teching beats turtling. This applies strongly to HW2. If you turtle, and successfully defend the rush, you are placed at a colossal economic advantage. That 1000+ recourses your opponent spent and time not upgrading their supply pads, etc. puts them at a huge supply disadvantage.
>
> Indeed there is a sweet window where a turtleer out-techs and out-ecos a rusher, but that window is very short considering HW’s unique game mechanics. I’d say it will be no longer than 2 minutes. Catching this fast fleeing window in a fanatic PvP game requires quite some skill.

Gonna snip down the quotes a bit, cause they’re getting ridiculous.

In order to effectively counter rushes, you DO need a higher skill cap. I will not deny that. That is why you need to invest time into an RTS in order to intricately understand it’s mechanics and succeed. It’s like that in any competitively viable RTS game. It won’t be open to everyone being equal right away. It’s important to practice and learn those benchmarks on when you out-tech the opponent. That is where skill in an RTS applies.

Personally, I think rushing takes less skill than effective counterplay. However, it’s still a strategy, and it CAN be countered. There’s no need to just bash it when it can be worked around.

I need to work on my scouting. I usually forget to which is bad on my part for sure!

> 2535448912154677;18:
> I need to work on my scouting. I usually forget to which is bad on my part for sure!

Just keep working on it! When you are newer, it’s super hard to remember all the things to do early in a game. Just keep practicing, and you’ll get it in no time! :slight_smile:

> 2533274924073601;17:
> > 2533274807340992;16:
> > > 2533274924073601;12:
> > > > 2533274807340992;11:
> > > > > 2533274924073601;6:
> > > > > > 2533274807340992;5:
> > > > > > See, there’s the problem right there: You don’t event need to scout! You should ALWAYS rush, because if you rush your opponent, only one of the following 3 results could happen:
> > > > > > - Your opponent is trying to expand production/economy(boom): his bases will be mostly undefended, and you’ll steamroll him for a early-game win. - Your opponent is trying to build up defenses(turtle): you will have total map control, and this gives you more resource and production capacity to pump higher tech tier units faster than him, which will eventually lead to a mid-game win. - Your opponent is trying to rush too: then it’s a tie for the early-game stage and you are simply back to square one.Win:Win:Tie, I wouldn’t call that good balance.
> > > > >
> > > > > That’s not entirely true.
> > > > >
> > > > > Remember the standard RTS balance- rushing beats teching, turtling beats rushing, teching beats turtling. This applies strongly to HW2. If you turtle, and successfully defend the rush, you are placed at a colossal economic advantage. That 1000+ recourses your opponent spent and time not upgrading their supply pads, etc. puts them at a huge supply disadvantage.
> >
> > Indeed there is a sweet window where a turtleer out-techs and out-ecos a rusher, but that window is very short considering HW’s unique game mechanics. I’d say it will be no longer than 2 minutes. Catching this fast fleeing window in a fanatic PvP game requires quite some skill.
>
> Gonna snip down the quotes a bit, cause they’re getting ridiculous.
>
> In order to effectively counter rushes, you DO need a higher skill cap. I will not deny that. That is why you need to invest time into an RTS in order to intricately understand it’s mechanics and succeed. It’s like that in any competitively viable RTS game. It won’t be open to everyone being equal right away. It’s important to practice and learn those benchmarks on when you out-tech the opponent. That is where skill in an RTS applies.
>
> Personally, I think rushing takes less skill than effective counterplay. However, it’s still a strategy, and it CAN be countered. There’s no need to just bash it when it can be worked around.

of course, aggro is always easier, it’s a skill gate tactic for the most part.