Am I the only one who hated reach?

<mark>TO BE CLEAR: I am NOT arguing that halo 4 is a great game; I am simply arguing that Halo Reach is the worst halo game in my opinion, and I do not want to see the large majority of features from that game (AAs, Load outs, map design, etc.) in future generations of Halo.</mark>

So I have noticed that a lot of my friends are beginning to go back to playing halo reach instead of playing halo 4, which is understandable because halo 4 is a bad game. However, what I find truly disturbing is that there is a growing faction of players that want a return to the Reach formula. In my opinion, halo reach was THE worst halo game ever created.

Problem #1: The campaign
The campaign was an utter failure in my opinion. For starters, instead of just telling a story about the spartan II’s on Reach, which would have allowed for massive battles in which you fight alongside other spartans, you instead must watch a super-secret group of spartan III’s (a ridiculous concept, BTW) carry out missions alone, following a predictable story path, and never encountering spartans along the way (dead bodies don’t count).

Campaign Story
While the story was interesting at times, I never really cared what happened to the characters. When they died it was more of a “meh”. I got more angry over the deaths of marines that I could have saved than I did over the death of Kat.

I felt as though their deaths were pointless in the way they were delivered; It happened in a cut scene, in such a fashion that you KNEW they were going to die. I would have preferred it if they died in game, like you are fighting a hunter or something and it blasts one of them in the chest; then you can get ANGRY AND DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT, then have a nice cut scene to let them pass.

now on to the hard facts

The AI programming was awful. Anyone who has entered a vehicle with Kat knows this. Why? Because its the same AI used in halo CE. Instead of using the refined, perfected Halo 3 AI, they used an old and worn-out version.

They also added in a semi-omniscient AI program to the enemies (I have no idea what it’s actually called, but I’ll explain it). This means that when you line a headshot up on an unsuspecting Elite, the pull of your trigger sends a code to the target, causing it to spin god like out of the way, unharmed. This also means that enemies know where you are almost all the time.
For example, lets say you are sneaking up on an elite, crouched with camo on. While in any other halo game you would be able to sneak up and kill it, the elite magically spins around and smacks you before you are even in range. Also, Elites are far better than usual at getting head shots, blasting your brains out on the first shot rather than the 3rd or 4th.

Another thing they did to mess up the game was the terrible checkpoint placement, but everyone already knows about that so I won’t go into it.

Continuing on, there is the problem of auto tracking weapons: When you are running from fuel-rod turrets or elites with rocket launchers/fuel rods, have you ever noticed that the rockets and fuel rods seem to be following you? Well thats because they are. enemy AI explosive weapons can track you, whether or not you are in a vehicle. This is unfair, and if I might say so, a very early 2000’s approach to making a game more difficult. It’s bad enough that they have infinite ammo with the Rocket, but now their rockets follow you too?

Now I will admit the last two missions (including lone wolf) were very fun and enjoyable. I personally enjoyed the Lone Wolf mission, and me and my friends made many attempts to see how far we could get on legendary difficulty. However, this small spot of light, like the fight scene at the end of Star Wars episode 1, was not enough to redeem the earlier shortcomings.

Problem #2: Firefight
Firefight was actually ok, but it still suffered from the AI problems of the campaign. On top of that, I felt as though it was tarnished some-what by the infinite ammo crates and gametypes like Fiesta, in which everyone has power weapons and infinite lives. That, coupled with the high credit incentive, reduced any attempt at teamwork to ashes.

Problem #3: Forge + custom games
Forge was actually pretty good; I enjoyed the improved forge mode and forge was perhaps the largest redeeming quality about halo reach. However, the custom games were trampled underfoot. Without any misc. items/ items that could be thrown about, the odd uselessness of the custom power up (it never worked for me), and the difficulty in forging infection maps made it very difficult to create fun and exciting games.

Problem #4: File Sharing
I was very disappointed when I found that you could not look at other people’s fileshares; this had been my main source of entertainment while waiting for the game to start as well as my method for collecting new game types to try. Sure you have a file browser, but that doesn’t help if you aren’t looking for something specific, and half the time its impossible to find the matching game types and maps. this is a 17+ game, who cares if there are inappropriate images floating around? if some squeaker’s mom is upset, her 7 year old kid shouldn’t be playing this game anyway. Besides, whatever happened to “Online interactions are not rated by the ESRB”?

Problem #5: Matchmaking changes
This is the biggest black spot in all of Halo history. Not only did this see the removal of some of the most beloved weapons such as the BR and the SMG, but it also saw an end to Dual-wielding, which has been an essential part the franchise since the dawn of Halo matchmaking. They also nerfed the AR, making it practically useless in the face of a pistol or a skilled hand with the DMR.

While in halo 3 there we had equipments and powerups, which were balanced because only a few people had them at a time and they could only be used once, in Reach we were given Armor Abilities.

These completely and utterly unbalanced the game. Now, instead of having to hunt for the equipment, players could use it again, and again, and again, and again. This was a terrible idea. Not to mention the over-powered abilities like Armor Lock and Camouflage, which was a big boon for campers and snipers, but not so much for skilled players and prideful anti-snipers.

Problem #6: Maps
There was also the horrible map designs. the original maps were terrible; they were buggy, filled with holes and glitched spots, and WERE TAKEN DIRECTLY FROM THE CAMPAIGN. there was no effort put into them at all. In fact, the best map pack was the Anniversary map pack. quite frankly I can’t remember any of the other map packs because I have repressed them. They put a rocket with 2 extra clips on CQC maps, guaranteeing some camper noob at least 4 kills.

Not only that, but the weapon spawn rate was very high. More than once I have encountered matches on Countdown in which there were 3 shotgunners running around the map. Sometimes there were so many shotguns and swords lying around the map I would wonder if I had joined a Zombies match.

True, there were some good maps, such as Zealot, hemorrhage, and The Cage, the other maps were either too asymmetrical to be balanced, or had too dominant a map control point, like the upper floor of Countdown or the upper terrace of Reflection

Problem #6: Vehicles
The vehicles were terrible.

first off, you should NEVER be able to shoot someone off of you if you get boarded. Yet you can do that with a wraith.

Secondly, You should not be able to die in a closed cockpit vehicle like the wraith, scorpion, falcon, or banshee and have your vehicle be perfectly fine.

Thirdly, SNIPER RIFLES ARE NOT -BLAMMING- GAUSS CANNONS. They should not be able to destroy a tank with two clips.

Fourthly, you should not be able to kill someone via ramming with a ghost, wraith or revenant without using your boost; Especially if you are going backward.

Fifthly, Why have a vehicle like the falcon be able to carry up to 4 people in the campaign, but ONLY CARRY TWO IN THE MULTIPLAYER? I was really looking forward to using the falcon as a rapid transport vehicle like the prowler or the specter, but nope I guess not. there are other problems with the vehicles, but I think i made my point

Problem #7: Halo Jump
Next on the list is the lack of the Halo jump that is in every halo game except for reach and halo wars. By halo jump, I mean that when you click the A button, you don’t just jump, you jump. What removing this did to the Halo gameplay can be summed up in an analogy: Lets say there is a great warrior. He is given a claymore (a very long sword) to wield. He uses that blade for 8 years, growing used to its presence, its weight, its balance, and its range. But then one day someone takes his claymore and gives him a small knife. while he can still use it, he is left vulnerable to things he used to easily avoid. things like ghost ramming, rockets, grenade spammers, snipers, and tank shots.

This forced old school halo fans to completely change how they played halo, and that was not something I enjoyed doing.

Problem #8: Ranking system & Armory
Finally, we come to the ranking system. The credit system and earning points was utterly pointless; your rank should not be determined by how long you have played instead of how skillful you are. While unlocking new armor is kind of exciting, I preferred it when armor pieces were declarations of achievements you had made.

I wore my Scout shoulder proudly, saying yeah, I ran someone over with a mongoose. I would have EoD be my other shoulder, so I could declare that I beat the game on legendary. I would wear my katana chest to show off my dedication to the halo franchise. and finally, I would wear my security helmet because it was my favorite helmet, the personal bit of me on top holding all my achievements together.

My armor was a declaration of who I was and what I was capable of; in halo reach, it meant nothing. There was nothing special about my armor combination since everyone already had it.

Instead of the ranks having meaning, they were just a declaration of how much time you spent either playing zombies or firefight. In normal matchmaking it took a lot longer to rank up no matter how good you were.

Conclusion:
So in conclusion, I can understand why people are continuing to go back to halo reach, but not why they want the Franchise to return to that abomination. I happen to like halo 4, but it’s still a disappointment. In reality, there are only two bad games in the halo franchise; halo reach and halo 4. the rest are fun and entertaining. Even halo wars wasn’t really bad, as it got me hooked on RTS games like Command and Conquer.

Halo Reach is a monument to all the sins of the Halo Franchise. Halo 4 is a terrible game because it is following the path laid down by Halo reach. I hope that 343i will realize their mistake before its too late, before they march willingly into the blackened abyss that was Halo Reach.

Lol, this? AGAIN? Reach came out in 2010, get over it. Move on. The hate for it was then, not now. So you hate it, ok dont play it. So your friends play it and you dont, play something else?

Also, Good holy hell your complaints are trivial. 2 passengers in a Falcon not 4?! ERMAGHERD I CANT GET A KILLTACALUR WITH A LASER, TANK, OR ROCKET!

As the Heavy would say: “CRY SOME MOOOORE!!”

> Lol, this? AGAIN? Reach came out in 2010, get over it. Move on. The hate for it was then, not now. So you hate it, ok dont play it. So your friends play it and you dont, play something else?
>
> Also, Good holy hell your complaints are trivial. 2 passengers in a Falcon not 4?! ERMAGHERD I CANT GET A KILLTACALUR WITH A LASER, TANK, OR ROCKET!
>
> As the Heavy would say: “CRY SOME MOOOORE!!”

wow. Out of an entire list of very valid points, you take the most trivial and unimportant. It’s not like that was a major point of my argument.

Firstly, I was just pointing out that the Falcon in matchmaking is very different from the one in campaign; that was what I was angry about, not that it can’t carry 4 passengers (I don’t even bring up not being able to get a killtacular; way to actually read my argument before responding).

Secondly, I am talking about this because not only are my friends starting to play this game, there is a growing movement that wants Halo 5 to return to the Reach formula. I do not want this to happen, and I do not understand why they would want to return to such a horrible game.

Thirdly, get lost flame baiter. If you want to act like a child, go to some CoD forums where that kind of behavior is acceptable.

Reach was better than H4

> Reach was better than H4

Debatable, but IMO Reach is just slightly worse than Halo 4

Text wall much?

Next time try separating your ideas please. You can uses these lines


Or even use these spoilers to hide finer details to what you are trying to share. Don’t be a jerk and put it all out as a solid text wall and expect people to care about what you wrote.

> > Lol, this? AGAIN? Reach came out in 2010, get over it. Move on. The hate for it was then, not now. So you hate it, ok dont play it. So your friends play it and you dont, play something else?
> >
> > Also, Good holy hell your complaints are trivial. 2 passengers in a Falcon not 4?! ERMAGHERD I CANT GET A KILLTACALUR WITH A LASER, TANK, OR ROCKET!
> >
> > As the Heavy would say: “CRY SOME MOOOORE!!”
>
> wow. Out of an entire list of very valid points, you take the most trivial and unimportant. It’s not like that was a major point of my argument.
>
> Firstly, I was just pointing out that the Falcon in matchmaking is very different from the one in campaign; that was what I was angry about, not that it can’t carry 4 passengers (I don’t even bring up not being able to get a killtacular; way to actually read my argument before responding).
>
> Secondly, I am talking about this because not only are my friends starting to play this game, <mark>there is a growing movement that wants Halo 5 to return to the Reach formula.</mark> I do not want this to happen, and I do not understand why they would want to return to such a horrible game.
>
> Thirdly, get lost flame baiter. If you want to act like a child, go to some CoD forums where that kind of behavior is acceptable.

So, is that just your friends that say that about Halo 5? Im pretty sure the consensus is that Halo 5 needs to be more like Halo 3 than anything else. I havent seen a single post saying that Halo 5 needs to be like Reach. Halo 4 was like Reach, and strayed farther away from Halo 3. Reach had a balance with its loadouts and AAs. Halo 4 pushed those boundaries. Halo 5 needs to not try to test those boundaries at all and go with what works.

> > > Lol, this? AGAIN? Reach came out in 2010, get over it. Move on. The hate for it was then, not now. So you hate it, ok dont play it. So your friends play it and you dont, play something else?
> > >
> > > Also, Good holy hell your complaints are trivial. 2 passengers in a Falcon not 4?! ERMAGHERD I CANT GET A KILLTACALUR WITH A LASER, TANK, OR ROCKET!
> > >
> > > As the Heavy would say: “CRY SOME MOOOORE!!”
> >
> > wow. Out of an entire list of very valid points, you take the most trivial and unimportant. It’s not like that was a major point of my argument.
> >
> > Firstly, I was just pointing out that the Falcon in matchmaking is very different from the one in campaign; that was what I was angry about, not that it can’t carry 4 passengers (I don’t even bring up not being able to get a killtacular; way to actually read my argument before responding).
> >
> > Secondly, I am talking about this because not only are my friends starting to play this game, <mark>there is a growing movement that wants Halo 5 to return to the Reach formula.</mark> I do not want this to happen, and I do not understand why they would want to return to such a horrible game.
> >
> > Thirdly, get lost flame baiter. If you want to act like a child, go to some CoD forums where that kind of behavior is acceptable.
>
> So, is that just your friends that say that about Halo 5? Im pretty sure the consensus is that Halo 5 needs to be more like Halo 3 than anything else. I havent seen a single post saying that Halo 5 needs to be like Reach. Halo 4 was like Reach, and strayed farther away from Halo 3. Reach had a balance with its loadouts and AAs. Halo 4 pushed those boundaries. Halo 5 needs to not try to test those boundaries at all and go with what works.

Not just some of my friends. I’ve seen threads on waypoint asking for this (then again, there are posts about EVERYTHING on waypoint) and I don’t know about you, but it’s the number one complaint I hear in game chat: “ugh, I wish halo 4 was more like reach. they need to go back to reach.”

If you haven’t encountered anyone who thinks that halo 5 should be more like reach, then maybe I’m unlucky because it seems like I’m encountering them everywhere I go.

I do agree with your consensus that halo 5 should be more like halo 3, and perhaps my post is irrelevant/unimportant, but I felt like I needed to say it. I got sick and tired of hearing people praise Halo reach as this great game, or in some cases as the best halo game.

> Text wall much?
> ----------------
>
> Next time try separating your ideas please. You can uses these lines
>
> -------------
> Or even use these spoilers to hide finer details to what you are trying to share. Don’t be a jerk and put it all out as a solid text wall and expect people to care about what you wrote.

You think THATS a text wall? I separated my ideas using blank spaces, which is a pretty common method of breaking up text here on waypoint.

but I guess I’ll add in headers to my main points to make it seem more broken up

Why do you assume the CoD forums are bad? Its not perfect but neither is this, i mean come on, you are on the forum having a big argument.

The only insightful forums for gaming(ever) were either bnet or the OLD nintendo forums which has been gone for years now :frowning:

The only thing that I don’t like about Halo Reach is Armor Lock. It’s not fair to fight someone that can become indestructible whenever they want. Everything else is great though. I’ve had Halo 4 in my disk tray for about 2 months straight up until the past few days when I played Halo Reach. It’s so fun!

The Custom Games and Forging got better, minus the Forerunner grey which got dull after so many maps in matchmaking. Revenant was useful and fun to drive, the Falcon was fun but I agree carrying more passengers would’ve been great, the glitch that caused ghosts and wraiths to launch at lightspeed into walls and outside of maps was also entertaining.

Although, the loss of weapons, dual wielding, the introduction of bloom and AL, and some other things were pretty darn terrible decisions.

When I bought Reach, the first thing I did was look for my ranked team slayer… only social. Super upset. Obviously armor abilities were poorly implemented even if you like the idea.

But Halo 4 completely abandoned the traditional Halo game play with infinity settings. Halo Reach def has appeal to me now, even if only for the grenade launcher.

> Why do you assume the CoD forums are bad? Its not perfect but neither is this, i mean come on, you are on the forum having a big argument.

It was a joke. I was poking fun at the fact that a considerable portion of the CoD fan-base is under 13 years old

I don’t know what the CoD forums are like, so I didn’t intend for that to be taken seriously

> The only thing that I don’t like about Halo Reach is Armor Lock. It’s not fair to fight someone that can become indestructible whenever they want. Everything else is great though. I’ve had Halo 4 in my disk tray for about 2 months straight up until the past few days when I played Halo Reach. It’s so fun!

As I have said before, its fine if you enjoy the game. I didn’t, but that doesn’t mean you shouldn’t. However, I am against ANY similarities to Halo Reach in future releases

> The Custom Games and Forging got better, minus the Forerunner grey which got dull after so many maps in matchmaking. Revenant was useful and fun to drive, the Falcon was fun but I agree carrying more passengers would’ve been great, the glitch that caused ghosts and wraiths to launch at lightspeed into walls and outside of maps was also entertaining.
>
> Although, the loss of weapons, dual wielding, the introduction of bloom and AL, and some other things were pretty darn terrible decisions.

I won’t lie by saying the revenant was fun to drive; but it was very annoying when you were on the business-end of its cannon. The biggest problem I had with the revenant and the wraith is that it could kill you via splatter without even going full speed, and thats not including the boost.

> When I bought Reach, the first thing I did was look for my ranked team slayer… only social. Super upset. Obviously armor abilities were poorly implemented even if you like the idea.
>
> But Halo 4 completely abandoned the traditional Halo game play with infinity settings. Halo Reach def has appeal to me now, even if only for the grenade launcher.

Ah but you see, Halo 4 is a product of reach; thats why I was alarmed when I heard that people would be fine with a game similar to reach. I’d much rather see a return to the halo 3 style of halo than anything even resembling reach

Saying that Halo 4 is a product of Reach is a false statement. 343 had the chance to make the best halo game ever and they flopped. You can’t blame it on Reach because the games are different. No matter how many times you say that Reach started the trends you can’t deny the fact that it was Halo 4 that ultimately decided to include auto aim, unbalanced custom loadouts, unbalanced weapons, sprint, terrible map design, and ordinance drops. You can’t blame anyone but 343 for those glaring flaws.