Alternatives to Sprint

Games Halo 5: Guardians
1

The introduction of sprint into Halo has been one of the most controversial changes to the franchise. Many are in favor of removing it, while others think it is/can be beneficial to gameplay. Personally, I’m not a fan of sprint in Halo, but I do see potential for a somewhat similar mechanic.

Those of you who have played Counter Strike probably know that some weapons (the knife, for instance) allow faster movement speed. This mechanic works well for the game, giving players the option to sacrifice superior firepower for speed to get to locations more quickly, but without rendering them completely vulnerable when doing so.

My idea is that, similarly to CS’s mechanic, players gain a small speed boost (maybe 5-10%, but would require play-testing) when wielding weapons like the Magnum (and maybe SMG). This would give these sidearms more purpose without making their kill-times “unrealistically” faster than those of “primary” rifles like the BR and AR (respectively) to compensate for their shortcomings like smaller magazine size, shorter effective range/red reticle range, etc.

I’d like to see the Magnum buffed to be on-par with the BR in terms of kill-time and accuracy, but retain its shorter RRR and 8-round magazine. Combine this with the slight movement speed increase and we have a formidable Magnum that has advantages and disadvantages compared to the BR.

What do you think? Could this mechanic be beneficial for Halo? Are there aspects of it you would change? If you don’t like the idea, leave a comment discussing why.

EDIT: I’d also like to point out that I didn’t solely come up with this. I recall discussions about this or something similar around a year ago, as well as Ramir3z77 recently.

2

Sidearm idea sounds good, as long as it’s only a slight increase in movement speed, not a major difference.

Maybe they could just replace it with default thrusters, functioning as a sidestep function. Personally it makes me wonder why they haven’t went with a sidestep function as of yet. If anything, that would fit better in an arena shooter such as Halo, at least when you compare it to sprint.

What about a hop? Like if you quickly tap the trigger, you just do a very short, but fast jump that can be used for dodging and gaining a quick burst of speed. Holding the trigger down would do a normal jump.

Sliding would also work. Holding down crouch the instant you land a jump would let you simply skid across the ground for some distance, and maybe they could have it where jumping in the middle of a slide would allow you to do a long jump.

Or they could implement an increased speed cap when moving forward, like you walk a bit faster than you do when moving to the side.

Last idea, after walking forward for a distance your character gains a speed increase, but it deactivates if you change you stop or move left/right/backward.

You think they would’ve went with these options first, instead of trying to implement a broken feature that ruins the flow/pace of gameplay, interrupts combat, and makes for easy retreats. It’s even weirder when you realize that the mechanic of sprint comes from an entirely different sub-genre of games. Halo’s an arena shooter but they instead choose to implement something from those crappy modern military shooters (MMS, that’s what I call 'em). That would be like if we had Banjo-Kazooie characters riding vehicles or Sonic characters utilizing firearms, oh wait those both happened and it sucked.

I would personally prefer them to have 120% movement speed with the H4 jump (less floaty), and add default thrusters to the mix. Very useful for quickly retreating out of battle, dodging a projectile, or dashing toward a power weapon, but if your enemy is good he can counter it.

3

It’s looking like the Halo 4 Thruster Pack is a default Spartan Ability for every player, I just don’t want to be pulled into 3rd person View when I use it, like how Reach’s Evade kept you in first person.

I agree with the OP, have sidearms give maybe a 10-15% movement speed increase, and have players slow down to only 20% of sprint’s speed increase when shot in sprint, but movement speed is uneffected with normal run.

And it’s off topic but please balance the DMR and reduce bullet megnetism. In Halo 4 it’s still better than the BR at basically every range. It should be a medium-long range weapon with poor cqc performance. As Halo 4 is we can outgun ARs and Suppressors with a DMR at point blank range.

4

> <mark>It’s looking like the Halo 4 Thruster Pack is a default Spartan Ability for every player,</mark> I just don’t want to be pulled into 3rd person View when I use it, like how Reach’s Evade kept you in first person.
>
> I agree with the OP, have sidearms give maybe a 10-15% movement speed increase, and have players slow down to only 20% of sprint’s speed increase when shot in sprint, but movement speed is uneffected with normal run.
>
> And it’s off topic but please balance the DMR and reduce bullet megnetism. In Halo 4 it’s still better than the BR at basically every range. It should be a medium-long range weapon with poor cqc performance. As Halo 4 is we can outgun ARs and Suppressors with a DMR at point blank range.

based on what?

the real problem though in regards to the DMR is that we had too many variations of existing weapons and thus we had a more unbalanced and unfair sandbox than we would’ve had otherwise, the halo 4 DMR was fine (aside from the large amount of aim assist/bullet magnetism and that 3x scope which I think they fixed) it was just that they decided to throw other rifles into the game and so players who didn’t have a DMR were instantly penalized simply for not choosing the right gun, so if you really want to see more balanced gameplay I would argue that having fewer weapons doing more things is probably the way to go and not just adding as many weapons as possible.

oh yeah and thruster pack>sprint any day of the week, probably what they should’ve done to begin with instead but oh well.

5

This is honestly, the best idea I have seen so far. Still have to see how it works in practice, but this is the most promising. We are still not CS, so who knows how this would work.

We always have the option of always removing it like you said,and just increasing base movement speed. This easily solves all the problems related to sprint, instead of alleviating some of them.

6

The sidearm idea is clever, but I feel like it’s not necessary. It wouldn’t apply to BR/AR starts, either. I’d rather something available across the board, so a slightly faster base speed perhaps.

I sincerely hope TP doesn’t become a standard option. It might have been one of the least offensive AA’s in H4, but that’s not saying much. And it’s hardly cause for baselining it. Default TP doesn’t help you cover distances, which is what Sprint was meant to do. It still gives you a get out of jail free card when being attacked from a distance. And it will totally mess with CQC at a time when it should be getting more attention, not less.

7

> What if player movement was increased when using sidearms (similar to using the knife in Counter Strike)? This would give more purpose to weapons like the Magnum without giving them “unrealistic” kill times e.g. rivaling rifles like the BR. <mark>This trade-off of firepower for speed</mark>

… is completely unnecessary no matter which way you frame it. Do you know what happens when movement speed increases? Maps grow to compensate. And if maps grow to compensate, what is the point of faster movement speed?

It doesn’t solve any of the problems sprint causes. It will still separate 100% movement effectiveness from 100% combat effectiveness, it will still cause maps to be upscaled, and it will still allow players to get away faster than they can be chased (with 100% combat effectiveness). Moreover, now when choosing which two weapons to hold, a player will now have to decide if he wants BR + sprint or BR + Rockets, since throwing away the Magnum (or whatever the weapon is) will also throw away the player’s ability to sprint. It works better in Counter-Strike because a player can hold the entire arsenal of weapons at all times.

This halfway compromise stuff seems like a good idea, but it pleases no sizable group of players. The pro-sprint players want a working, useful sprint, and the anti-sprint players want nothing resembling sprint at all.

8

First and foremost, I love to see someone actually investing some energy at trying to find solutions for sprint, rather then wasting their energy at trying to remove it. Even though I would actually support removing sprint, let be realistic, the chances of sprint getting removed from Halo is extremely low. The last two Halo’s had sprint, and most FPS games have sprint. Far too many people are wasting their energy and intelligence at trying to remove sprint, when they should be channeling that energy and inelegance at improving sprint.

Personally I think a Counter Strike knife-style ~10% speed increase for sprint + the inability to sprint if shields are down would completely alleviate the negative gamepaly aspects that sprint brought to Halo, yet still ultimately provide the intended purpose of sprint i.e. moving from point A to point B quicker then you normally would. A 10% speed increase means that maps would not have to be completely overhauled, perhaps subtlety tweaked, but nothing substantial. And not being able to sprint with shields down means you are forced into old-school Halo combative situations.

The non-collaborative, uncompromising anti-sprint rhetoric reminds me of politics. And as a community we risk achieving nothing with regard to sprint. Because for better or worse, Halo has adopted the sprint mechanic, and I highly doubt its going backward to no-sprint.

9

> Far too many people are wasting their energy and intelligence at trying to remove sprint, when they should be channeling that energy and inelegance at improving sprint.

Personally, I would hope that 343i give it some clear thought and eventually simply remove sprint and then use their energy and intelligence to improve different and way more important and significant aspects of the game.

Plus, why should the community or rather the part which supports its straight removal bother with finding solutions for a mechanic which firstly changes a fundamental and liked characteristic of the game’s gameplay, secondly doesn’t even have one proper point to exist in this game in the first place except being conventional and lastly, as profane as it sounds but it is not even our job to find solutions as consumers.

To the OP:

I think your suggestion has not much to do with being an alternative of a movement mechanic or rather being an actual independent movement mechanic in general but rather with weapons which would offer you certain movement traits, what could be quite interesting and potentially add some more depth/substance to certain weapons though.
Perhaps I have been deluded but didn’t the sword give you a slight increase in movement speed in H3?

10

I do agree that why create something to replace an unnecessary, broken mechanic like sprint, but I found this video detailing how the thruster pack originally was supposed to be in Halo 4 and I honestly am not annoyed with it at all…

http://youtu.be/vGAJ5967KSI

11

> > What if player movement was increased when using sidearms (similar to using the knife in Counter Strike)? This would give more purpose to weapons like the Magnum without giving them “unrealistic” kill times e.g. rivaling rifles like the BR. <mark>This trade-off of firepower for speed</mark>
>
> … is completely unnecessary no matter which way you frame it. Do you know what happens when movement speed increases? Maps grow to compensate. And if maps grow to compensate, what is the point of faster movement speed?
>
> It doesn’t solve any of the problems sprint causes. It will still separate 100% movement effectiveness from 100% combat effectiveness, it will still cause maps to be upscaled, and it will still allow players to get away faster than they can be chased (with 100% combat effectiveness). Moreover, now when choosing which two weapons to hold, a player will now have to decide if he wants BR + sprint or BR + Rockets, since throwing away the Magnum (or whatever the weapon is) will also throw away the player’s ability to sprint. It works better in Counter-Strike because a player can hold the entire arsenal of weapons at all times.
>
> This halfway compromise stuff seems like a good idea, but it pleases no sizable group of players. The pro-sprint players want a working, useful sprint, and the anti-sprint players want nothing resembling sprint at all.

What you seem to be missing is that “combat effectiveness” doesn’t consist solely of firepower. Movement is a big factor, especially in Halo (look at how integral strafing is to the gameplay).

As for the “issue” of having to trade a Magnum (with speed bonus) for something with other advantages (like more damage, range, etc.), how is that different from the choices players must already make when trading weapons?

The impact on map design would likely be minimal at worst. The movement increase would ideally be only 5-10% more than base movement (would obviously require play testing).

12

> why should the community or rather the part which supports its straight removal bother with finding solutions for a mechanic which firstly changes a fundamental and liked characteristic of the game’s gameplay,

Because good solutions for sprint do NOT fundamentally change game-play. A slower 10% speed increase combined with no sprinting if shields are at all depleted will retain classic combative interactions, maintain standard map sizes and layouts, and still provide the intended function of sprint.

> secondly doesn’t even have one proper point to exist in this game in the first place except being conventional

The indented point of sprint is to move players from point A to point B faster then they normally would travel. Lots of games successfully implement a sprint mechanic without messing up combative interactions. Halo can achieve this too, while still maintaining a classic Halo combat.

> and lastly, as profane as it sounds but it is not even our job to find solutions as consumers.

You are right, its not our job to find solutions, however, the last two Halo’s had sprint, so it stands to reason that the next Halo will as well. Sprint is an expected game mechanic at this point for the general FPS public, so do you really think 343i is going to get rid of it? The “get rid of sprint” complaints will fall on def ears if the game designers are already well-committed to designing the game with a sprint mechanic. However, expressing the issues that sprint caused, along with solutions to fix those issues, might actually get the designers attention.

13

> > why should the community or rather the part which supports its straight removal bother with finding solutions for a mechanic which firstly changes a fundamental and liked characteristic of the game’s gameplay,
>
> Because good solutions for sprint do NOT fundamentally change game-play. A slower 10% speed increase combined with no sprinting if shields are at all depleted will retain classic combative interactions, maintain standard map sizes and layouts, and still provide the intended function of sprint.
>
>
>
> > secondly doesn’t even have one proper point to exist in this game in the first place except being conventional
>
> <mark>The indented point of sprint is to move players from point A to point B faster then they normally would travel.</mark> Lots of games successfully implement a sprint mechanic without messing up combative interactions. Halo can achieve this too, while still maintaining a classic Halo combat.
>
>
>
>
> > and lastly, as profane as it sounds but it is not even our job to find solutions as consumers.
>
> You are right, its not our job to find solutions, however, the last two Halo’s had sprint, so it stands to reason that the next Halo will as well. Sprint is an expected game mechanic at this point for the general FPS public, so do you really think 343i is going to get rid of it? The “get rid of sprint” complaints will fall on def ears if the game designers are already well-committed to designing the game with a sprint mechanic. However, expressing the issues that sprint caused, along with solutions to fix those issues, might actually get the designers attention.

but that’s the point. you don’t get anywhere faster. that’s a straight lie, it’s just an illusion,
because maps have to grow to compensate for faster movement, so that point is invalid.

14

> > > secondly doesn’t even have one proper point to exist in this game in the first place except being conventional
> >
> > <mark>The indented point of sprint is to move players from point A to point B faster then they normally would travel.</mark> Lots of games successfully implement a sprint mechanic without messing up combative interactions. Halo can achieve this too, while still maintaining a classic Halo combat.
>
> but that’s the point. you don’t get anywhere faster. that’s a straight lie, it’s just an illusion, because maps have to grow to compensate for faster movement, so that point is invalid.

Although I agree that map size commonly factors in player movement speeds, they are not mutually inclusive. For example, Counter Strike maps are not sized around knife-sprint, yet the game still contains a commonly used sprint mechanic. Actually, take any game franchise with sprint, and you will find a mix of small, medium, and large maps. Sprint does not dictate map size, map size dictates map size. Sprint is just a movement mechanic and can exist within small, medium, and large maps alike.

In Halo CE, 2 & 3 would you generally agree that maps are sized appropriately for base player movement? Yes? So leaving those maps exactly the same size they are, and introducing a 10% sprint speed increase along with an inability to sprint if shields are down. Do you really think that the game’s maps would have to be overhauled to accommodate that? Perhaps tweaked here and there, sure, but overall they could remain the exact same size, combat would retain its old-school feel, yet the movement mechanic would still be beneficial. I for one would absolutely leverage a 10% sprint to help get around blood gulch.

15

> but that’s the point. you don’t get anywhere faster. that’s a straight lie, it’s just an illusion,
> because maps have to grow to compensate for faster movement, so that point is invalid.

Well, I’d say its more along the lines of “you move slower than the maps are designed for whenever you’re in combat”… Negative either way, but with the CS-inspired idea that wouldn’t be the case.

16

Edited the initial post a bit… Also, I was wondering if there was a way to edit the title to “Movement Mechanic for Sidearms”?

17

> Because good solutions for sprint do NOT fundamentally change game-play. A slower 10% speed increase combined with no sprinting if shields are at all depleted will retain classic combative interactions, maintain standard map sizes and layouts, and still provide the intended function of sprint.
>
> The indented point of sprint is to move players from point A to point B faster then they normally would travel. Lots of games successfully implement a sprint mechanic without messing up combative interactions. Halo can achieve this too, while still maintaining a classic Halo combat.
>
> You are right, its not our job to find solutions, however, the last two Halo’s had sprint, so it stands to reason that the next Halo will as well. Sprint is an expected game mechanic at this point for the general FPS public, so do you really think 343i is going to get rid of it? The “get rid of sprint” complaints will fall on def ears if the game designers are already well-committed to designing the game with a sprint mechanic. However, expressing the issues that sprint caused, along with solutions to fix those issues, might actually get the designers attention.

I try to keep this reply rather short and compact because I do not want to drift (this thread) too much into another sprint analysis discussion.

Firstly I haven’t seen one of said good solutions yet and I honestly doubt I ever will. It either boils down to changing the fundamentals to make an actual sprint work in Halo or you nerf sprint to an absolute irrelevant mechanic which hardly has anything to do with sprint anymore so you don’t have to change said fundamentals.
The latter is exactly what fits to your suggestions, implying it would still be a independent movement mechanic like sprint, a base player ability and not a movement trait linked to a weapon like suggested in the OP.
A 10% increase is firstly an almost negligible difference and only being able to make use of it when your shields are fully charged makes it unaccessible most of the time. I don’t see in which way this still provides the intended function of default sprint. I don’t see what this would provide in general as an default ability, let alone providing fun.

Secondly, yes other games successfully implemented sprint but firstly ask why sprint even exists in said games and why it has never existed in Halo.
Said games with sprint have never implemented it because of the shallow reason to get people from A to B faster. No, they follow certain gameplay principals, structures and themes in which the mechanic sprint plays a natural as well as gameplay relevant role as general mobility which again plays a significant role in offensive as well as defensive combat gameplay.
Gameplay principals, structures and themes Halo has never followed, instead it has followed different ones in which the mechanic sprint is firstly completely irrelevant because what sprint normally covers in a game like CoD got covered on different ways in Halo and secondly with that sprint just doesn’t flow well or doesn’t flow at all with.

Lastly, since when does the vague general FPS public set standards for games which every game has to follow instead of the developers themselves which then follow their own established standards?
Halo has established its gameplay standards (run and gun, shields, arena, sci-fi) as well as CoD has established its standards (run or gun, no shields, class based, modern/near future military).
Only because the vast majority of shooters nowadays follows CoD’s gameplay standards, what includes elements like sprint, does in absolutely no way dictate that Halo has to adopt them, especially not so long its individual standards can prove themselves.
And again, it is not our job to do 343i’s and catch their attention with it but it is theirs to catch ours.
Plus, they obviously received a pretty clear massage with H4 and when they truly properly sat down and analyzed and eventually developed some solid self-criticism and finally be somewhat creative with and dedicated to improve Halo’s fundamentals instead of thoughtlessly throwing elements and features into it, which resulted out of a completely different shooter genre additionally, then I actually expect them to come to the conclusion that the implementation of sprint in Halo is just a pointless task.

18

> I would personally prefer them to have 120% movement speed with the H4 jump (less floaty), and add default thrusters to the mix. Very useful for quickly retreating out of battle, dodging a projectile, or dashing toward a power weapon, but if your enemy is good he can counter it.

+1
I tried this kind of movement with 150% movement speed and 150% gravity (player falls faster) in Halo 4 and it felt surprisingly good. The movement felt a lot smoother than the usual slow and floaty movement and I would love to see Halo change its default movement to something like this.

It could be a lot harder to aim though since player could suddenly change direction while in air. Plus players would strafe a lot faster. An average player could find it a bit too difficult to hit enemies and increasing aim assist in order to fix that problem could annoy others.

19

> Firstly I haven’t seen one of said good solutions yet and I honestly doubt I ever will. It either boils down to changing the fundamentals to make an actual sprint work in Halo or you nerf sprint to an absolute irrelevant mechanic which hardly has anything to do with sprint anymore so you don’t have to change said fundamentals.
>
> The latter is exactly what fits to your suggestions, implying it would still be a independent movement mechanic like sprint, a base player ability and not a movement trait linked to a weapon like suggested in the OP.
>
> A 10% increase is firstly an almost negligible difference and only being able to make use of it when your shields are fully charged makes it unaccessible most of the time. I don’t see in which way this still provides the intended function of default sprint. I don’t see what this would provide in general as an default ability, let alone providing fun.

While I agree that Sprint has been a poorly-implemented mechanic and feel that it was wrongfully added for the purpose of having a commonplace mechanic that many shooters share, I must disagree about the speed increase being a “negligible” addition. A 10% increase in movement speed can certainly make a difference during a match, and can be especially pivotal in rushes for power weapons or objective gametypes.

I also would like to address the criticism that this extra speed will hinder (or outright ruin) map design/player navigation without the use of the Magnum: the base movement speed in Halo 4 was buffed up to 110% in the Turbo update, and it still plays fine (as far as Halo 4 goes, at least). Additionally, the MLG setting in Halo 3 changed the movement settings to 110% (Reach’s was bumped up to 120%).

Believe me, I’m all for removing Sprint in its entirety (its negative aspects have been stated more times than I can remember), but this concept isn’t really about keeping Sprint in one way or another, but offering the Magnum a legitimate role to contribute in gameplay (without making another weapon take its place), rather than being labeled as a “secondary” or “backup” weapon and this seems like a prime way of doing so IMO.

20

> …however, the last two Halo’s had sprint, so it stands to reason that the next Halo will as well.

That logic is flawed. Dual wielding was in H2 and H3, but it wasn’t in ODST, Reach, or H4. AAs were in the past two titles and they are being scrapped. Many things come and go from games to make them better. Thus, sprint is in no better position to stay than the other things I listed. Nor is anything really. There could be a health system in H5 like there was in H1 & Reach, but no one can definitively say until there is gameplay.

> Sprint is an expected game mechanic at this point for the general FPS public, so do you really think 343i is going to get rid of it?

The general fps public is not who 343 should focus on. They need to focus on the people who want to actually play Halo and will stick with Halo. Not the people who will come and play the game for a month and move on to the next newest thing out there. 343 was lucky to start off with a game that has a solid fanbase. They lost most of it and the game they made gets almost no attention and any attention it does get is completely negative because they abandoned their fanbase. Listen to the fans and do what they want if you want your game to succeed. Fans stick with what they love, casuals love what’s popular. Plain and simple.

> The “get rid of sprint” complaints will fall on def ears if the game designers are already well-committed to designing the game with a sprint mechanic. However, expressing the issues that sprint caused, along with solutions to fix those issues, might actually get the designers attention.

Anything posted on this forum, unless the thread is started by a dev/PR/employee with influence, will always fall on deaf ears. The devs don’t come here to read peoples thoughts (especially when everyone always posts threads about sprint on a daily basis) and they certainly won’t come here to get solutions to problems because they pay people good money to fix/solve the issues they currently have.

In response to the Poll, this is probably the best solution I’ve seen to date, a trade between firepower or speed, but I still say it’s trying to revive a corpse. The majority of Halo fans don’t want sprint. It shows on these forums and every other Halo forum/thread/community that I’ve read. So instead of always arguing about ways to fix it so it can be like every other game with a first person view while shooting, let Halo be different and let it thrive on its differences. Halo will stand out again and it will be a fresh new flavor in the world of fps games. Different != Bad all the time.