All of You Need to Open Your Eyes ( A New View)

For a long time I have been looking at these forums since Halo Reach. I have never wanted to post on these forums , but I have to get this out of my chest. And hopefully 343 or the community can take my opinions into account.

Since I probably need a background to be taken seriously here, This is my background:
Played all the halos
Started Multiplayer With halo 3(Don’t think I need to say more)

Halo was never about skill or competitiveness.

Part 1
I love Halo just as much as anyone else but the madness needs to subside.
The real and true reason that people started to leave halo was because of other games. Ever since modern warfare 2 came out people were slowly drifting to Call of duty because, in these peoples eyes, it was the superior game. Not because it was easier, not because it appealed to kids, but it just had More.
Customization on not how you looked like but on your loadouts that you were allowed to change to according to your playstyle. Killstreaks that give you something to go for while having your heart pounding to stay alive. An RPG xp-based system to always keep you playing in order to unlock something. And the chaos of small maps. These are the things Halo didn’t have.

I’m not trying to praise COD or shame Halo, but back in 2010 halo Reach was my main game until Black Ops, my first COD, came out. I didn’t like it at first, but after playing it a while, Halo felt Backwards. Since then, I have always played more COD than Halo.

Part 2
After observing these forums, my conclusion is that Casual gamers are Normal Gamers and the competitive ones are Serious Gamers.

These “Classical” aspects such as No Sprint, No ADS, “Skill Jumps” instead of clambering, and others are old mechanics. We need to look to the future if we want to keep and maintain the Halo Player Base. The real reason Halo 4’s population dropped so quickly was because of Black ops 2, nothing else. If people really hated the new aspects of Halo 4 then nobody would have been playing the new COD either. Halo 4 had things on the right track track but it is just that, in the eyes of the people, Black ops 2 was the better game. Had the new COD not been released Halo 4 would still have a strong population.

To me, Halo 4 had modernized correctly and people loved it. But since the population dropped people blamed the game and not the industry.

Part 3
I think Halo 5 can still be a great and popular game like people want it to be , but in order to not be destroyed by Black Ops 3 next year, the developers at 343 need to add MORE and not strip down back to old mechanics.

Bring back loadouts. With Rock-Paper-Scissors type loadouts it should be just the same as having equal loadouts appealing to Normal and Serious gamers. Increase player capacity!!! This is Next-Gen, we need to play what could not be achieved on the previous consoles. 32 v 32 player matches, more vehicles, more guns, dynamic weather, just More, Bigger, and Better!

Part 4
I feel the serious gamers want to hold Halo back because of feel and skill gap. The truth is that It is all in your head.
If you think about it COD and Halo in general aren’t that different from eachother. You shoot, kill, respawn. People say that Halo is harder because you need to stay on target because of long kill time and in COD you just spray and pray. Lets be honest, it is not hard to stay on target since there is no recoil in halo plus you spam your grenades and boom they are dead. In COD you need to be aware of your surroundings because you can get shot any where and it is hard to stay alive, thus, the gratification of killstreaks. They say you can just simply camp in to get kills but that is an easier way to die since someone always knows your hiding spot.

Again, I am not praising COD, I am just saying that Halo being a little more like it will not make it “easy”.

The Serious gamers feel that sprint and thruster pack give players a chance evade death when they shouldn’t. With that logic we should just run up to the enemy, do nothing, and let them kill us. We are all trying to evade death! Thruster pack and sprint allow new ways get around our enemies with tactics. Not everything is going die at the end of your gun.

Final Part
I might sound like a COD player trying to change Halo into a generic shooter, but I am a Normal Gamer that enjoys playing halo and wants to see it be better than it is. I may have come off harsh against the serious gamers but it would not be ideal to just abandon them. Halo 5 should have a separate playlist that has no loadouts and had the correct mechanics they see fit.

To me halo was built by Normal gamers. It was just meant to be mindless and fun while having a little tense competition to it. I know people still love Halo and it is far from dead, but it needs to Modernize in order to gain and maintain its playerbase against its competitors.

Too Lazy Didn’t Read: In order to not get Wiped out by Black ops 3 on Xbox One Halo 5 needs to keep its modernization and be Bigger and Better than ever. As long as there is Master Chief in the game, it will always be Halo and never lose its identity.This is open for discussion. Feel free to argue with me if you disagree. :slight_smile:

Please don’t be hostile.

Disagreed.
The game started to fail and lose popularity when it started to “modernize”.
I have actual facts to back my side up.

32v32 games?! Hahahahaha stop it now.

Typical BTB player… I enjoy guardians… but i am looking at it separately from all other Halos. I loved H2 and would love to play more games like it…However, H5 is a good stand alone game.

And H4 did not die because of BO2… it died because 343 did not deliver what Halo fans wanted. I recently purchased AW, as I would rather play a game that is working than one that is still consistently having problems, it is not fun to stare at the MM screen trying to find players. This is also not delivering, which is why I am choosing the backup until everything gets put together.

Games trash son 343 ruined it

First, you are aware that the COD core gameplay has seen sparse change until AW came out right? The most noticeable difference over the years has been kill times. CODs success is due to the overriding, “if it isn’t broken, don’t fix it” approach to developing. Sledgehammer is the first to break the mold in a serious way in quite some time.
Second, I find that the addition of the mechanics in the Beta are those which continue to break Halo away from the identity which made it so popular in the first place. These decisions being made on the side of development are clearly being made to appeal to a wider audience. This isn’t a bad thing necessarily, but it’s not advancing Halo in a way that I can really say make it “better” but instead make it different.
Third, I don’t much care about sprint or thruster packs, but they do change aspects of the game in ways that I don’t feel promote smart play. In previous games you would avoid death by playing well, playing smart and having situational awareness. Having the ability to hightail it out of any situation with one or two button presses is a bit much. That being said, it also makes chasing all that much easier, people can just sprint, thrust and be at your doorstep in an instant.
Finally, Halo was not built by “normal gamers” as you so put it. This franchise was built up by people who loved the game, played the ever loving hell out of it, and whether or not they realized it, were attracted to getting better and beating their friends. Then many of those people became competitive and probably played a whole lot more than “normal gamers”. The serious appeal to “serious gamers” with Arena gameplay and equal starts is a HUGE nod in the direction of the fan base which kept Halo going. Unfortunately (in my opinion), 343 is pandering to a wider audience and making Halo more amorphous.

LoL, it sounds like you want Halo and Battlefield to have a love child. Halo wasn’t created with the intent of being competitive, but it became so because of the fan support and tourneys at a early stage in the title. Therefore, the majority of gamers associate the title with competitiveness and skill, not whatever “new mechanics” are in. If you truly wanted Halo to evolve, then you would suggest ideas that would increase the competitiveness of the game.

“If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.”

No Halo 4 just wasn’t a good enough game and it ruined a lot of what was good in previous iterations.

You started playing CoD and enjoyed the instant gratification of progression unlocks. If I looked at your stats I know for sure your halo 3 days were probably pretty poorly played.

Anyways back to four…

  • Ruined customs.
  • Ruined Theatre.
  • Ruined map flow.
  • Ruined map control.
  • Campaign was unoriginal and uninspired other than a few new things tried. (Which I do applaud them on)
  • Broke sandbox by implimenting too many weapons that do the same thing.
  • Sprint broke the gunplay.
  • Flinch.
  • No descope.
  • Spawning with instant kill weapons. (Boltshot)
  • Spawning with cheap combos and unbalanced load outs, see above. (Plasma pistol plus precisiom rifle)
  • They ruined vehicle combat which was being close to perfected in H3.

The list goes on…

> 2717573882290994;2:
> Disagreed.
> The game started to fail and lose popularity when it started to “modernize”.
> I have actual facts to back my side up.

Where did you think the people that left went?

I stopped reading after you said to bring back loadouts. What a horrible idea. That’s the last thing this game needs. More clutter.

Finally someone who gets it. Thanks, OP.

The last thing Guardians should be is a game that forces the player to chose. Between Halo and some other game. I know that both Reach and H4 tried to accommodate both the casual and the competitive player, and were viewed largely as having failed the latter. But that doesn’t mean that this time around they can make a game which caters only the would-be professionals. It’s way too early to judge, but things seem to be pointing in that direction. I guess we’ll just have to wait and see…

> 2535407291562050;9:
> > 2717573882290994;2:
> > Disagreed.
> > The game started to fail and lose popularity when it started to “modernize”.
> > I have actual facts to back my side up.
>
>
> Where did you think the people that left went?

In a lot of cases? Nowhere.

I, and plenty of others stopped playing Halo 4, and didn’t go anywhere else. The last COD I bought was MW2. I was given Blops 2 for free, and have never played it. It sits still sealed on my shelf.

Halo lost it’s fan base when it lost it’s identity, this started with Reach when they changed too much. Small steps in evolution are taken easier but when you throw a familiar sandbox on it’s head and feed it to the long time fans it ain’t gonna go too well, as proven.

Op seems to be very ignorant to why players left & is speculating it to be about the actual thing that made the mass exodus. No meaningful ranking system with good maps & a familiar game is a lot closer to the reasons then op suggested.

> 2533274801294462;12:
> > 2535407291562050;9:
> > > 2717573882290994;2:
> > > Disagreed.
> > > The game started to fail and lose popularity when it started to “modernize”.
> > > I have actual facts to back my side up.
> >
> >
> >
> > Where did you think the people that left went?
>
>
> In a lot of cases? Nowhere.
>
> I, and plenty of others stopped playing Halo 4, and didn’t go anywhere else. The last COD I bought was MW2. I was given Blops 2 for free, and have never played it. It sits still sealed on my shelf.

Doesn’t it seem suspicious that while Halo was declining, COD was rising in popularity at that time? Halo 4 didn’t have enough content that BO2 had thus, many players moved there. You should play BO2 to know what Im talking about. Especially when it’s a free game.

Disagree.

> 2535407291562050;14:
> > 2533274801294462;12:
> > > 2535407291562050;9:
> > > > 2717573882290994;2:
> > > > Disagreed.
> > > > The game started to fail and lose popularity when it started to “modernize”.
> > > > I have actual facts to back my side up.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Where did you think the people that left went?
> >
> >
> >
> > In a lot of cases? Nowhere.
> >
> > I, and plenty of others stopped playing Halo 4, and didn’t go anywhere else. The last COD I bought was MW2. I was given Blops 2 for free, and have never played it. It sits still sealed on my shelf.
>
>
> Doesn’t it seem suspicious that while Halo was declining, COD was rising in popularity at that time? Halo 4 didn’t have enough content that BO2 had thus, many players moved there. You should play BO2 to know what Im talking about. Especially when it’s a free game.

I also went nowhere. I didn’t play my XBOX for a year.

> 2533274804996151;3:
> 32v32 games?! Hahahahaha stop it now.

What does Next-gen mean to you?

Too long, only read the tl;dr. Based on that, you’re pretty much objectively wrong though

Loadouts are what ruined Halo 4. I still played it, and enjoyed the “unlockable” items you covet from COD, however, variable start weapons is what made me hate the Crucible in Destiny. “I have better equipment then you, so I win, and you don’t enjoy the game” I don’t mind getting beat by a better player and can recognize when I am out classed, however, just losing because I haven’t played the PvP portion of the game non-stop so I am lower equipped or leveled is not fun. It’s the reason I’ve rarely played COD. I played in MW, and was late to the party and would get dropped into games with players which could kill me before I even made three steps. It became me hiding hoping to stay alive. Halo has been my bastion of PvP, until they added loadouts. It’s the reason Swat became my favorite variant, everyone has a BR, everyone dies with a head shot. It became the only game where I felt skill was truly displayed.

Disagreed.

Reach which was actually created by Bungie as they’re last Halo, was able to hold onto it’s player base.
So even though Reach introduced new things (loadouts, abilities etc), it still managed to keep Halo players engaged…after all it was very well respected by the pro players for its competitive compatibility.

Halo 4 simply failed and felt like just another shooter…it lost it’s identity AND this was 343’s first Halo.
It had crap map design, unbalanced mechanics, simplistic rank system and dodgy net code.

The facts are, that Reach maintained a 900k player base after 12 months yet H4 only had 20k.
Halo 2 had 800k, Halo 3 had 1.2mil.