all i want is usefull marines/spartans

Games Halo 5: Guardians
1

It’s pretty sad how after over 10 years the most useful marines we’ve ever gotten have been in spin-off games. And it’s something that needs to change.

I get how we’re supposed to be a super soldier and stuff, but it’s not fun being the only one actually fighting when I’ve got 5 Spartans or marines around barely doing jack, in fact it’s annoying and makes me like certain characters a lot less.

compare noble team to the 3 Spartans in Halo Wars. every single spartan in halo wars gets next to no character development at all, and i still like and care about each of them individually more than I did for Noble Team as a whole.

The stupidest thing about it all is that we’ve gone backwards since ODST, those were arguably the most useful since we could swap out weapons with them and they could use stuff like the Spartan Laser with infinite ammo and be a huge help when I’m driving around in the warthog.

So please 343, just give us some useful Friendly AI, make me actually care about the marines and Spartans.

2

Good subject.

I think the one thing halo 4 missed was the core that bungie’s halo’s did have.
Theres no interaction with other marines or other spartans in Halo 4.

The key to immerse a player into a sci-fi space war is that you have to feel like your a piece of small gear that fits into this big huge conflict.

In halo 1, every Marine or Npc would say something if you walked by or if you reacted to something. You were never alone, you were the Master chief surrounded by fateful marines that would support you no matter what. If you drove a warthog a marine would taunt on the back while shooting his gun. If you walked into a spaceship hallway they say something to you or about you without pressing a button. There’s a scene in halo 3 when arriving at the crows nest that marines would gossip or talk about the Masterchief. MasterChief is always surrounded by a platoon in halo 1,2,3.

Honestly it was completely missing in halo4 (or completely toned down)and that was its biggest flaw in mine opinion.
And when they showed the trailer of a next instalment, seeing a lonely chief in the dessert, really disappointed me.
Besides we don’t even have cortana anymore to interact with him.)

I hope we get that interaction back in the future instalments.
We need those taunting marine comrades around Masterchief.
(That’s the reason we jump huge ramps with the warthog to hear those marines enjoying themselves.)

3

> Good subject.
>
> I think the one thing halo 4 missed was the core that bungie’s halo’s did have.
> Theres no interaction with other marines or other spartans in Halo 4.
>
> The key to immerse a player into a sci-fi space war is that you have to feel like your a piece of small gear that fits into this big huge conflict.
>
> In halo 1, every Marine or Npc would say something if you walked by or if you reacted to something. You were never alone, you were the Master chief surrounded by fateful marines that would support you no matter what. If you drove a warthog a marine would taunt on the back while shooting his gun. If you walked into a spaceship hallway they say something to you or about you without pressing a button. There’s a scene in halo 3 when arriving at the crows nest that marines would gossip or talk about the Masterchief. MasterChief is always surrounded by a platoon in halo 1,2,3.
>
> Honestly it was completely missing in halo4 (or completely toned down)and that was its biggest flaw in mine opinion.
> And when they showed the trailer of a next instalment, seeing a lonely chief in the dessert, really disappointed me.
> Besides we don’t even have cortana anymore to interact with him.)
>
> I hope we get that interaction back in the future instalments.
> We need those taunting marine comrades around Masterchief.
> (That’s the reason we jump huge ramps with the warthog to hear those marines enjoying themselves.)

I heard that programming AI can take up quite the amount of RAM. And since 343i prioritized the graphics and enemy AI more, I guess they had to tone down the friendly AI.

4

Halos friendly AI really needs some work. All they do is snipe me, drive me off cliffs, grenade eachother or miss when shooting enemies. With the next Halo being on Xbox one, I imagine they’ll get better.

5

> Halos friendly AI really needs some work. All they do is snipe me, drive me off cliffs, grenade eachother or miss when shooting enemies. With the next Halo being on Xbox one, I imagine they’ll get better.

technology limitations aren’t what made the marines bad, and that’s what worries me about future games.

6

343i should take a page out of Halo 3 and mimic it’s Allied AI.

Even on legendary they were useful.

7

I made a thread about a month ago on this same subject.

I talked about how I want the freandly AI to be more interactive, with you, with them selfs, with the environment and the battle.

Seeing marines actually take cover, dock their haeds and get up occasionally to return fire and not just stand and take a good 20 hits before they die. Marines pulling their wounded into cover, I see allot of this in titanfall with the grunts. Marines shouting out orders, medics attending to the wounded, marines pulling their dead into cover maybe even seeing a couple of marines run in to retrieve a fallen comrade and caring them in their shoulders. Seeing different types of marines, medics, rifle man, machine gunners, etc.

I want the sense that I’m fighting along side marines and not computers who are stupid for not taking cover after taking 20 hits.

If halo got the AIs from titanfall, with a UNSC armor and as well as not standing in one spot for what feels like an eternity. Halo would feel more alive when fighting alongside marines or even spartans.

Also noticeable difference in interactions between marines, ODSTs, Spartans, none enlisted and officers.

HUD showings their rank and names. COD style but that it actually make sense do to having a HUD. Battlefield AI movement (realistic) and titanfall AI interactions.

8

technology limitations aren’t what made the marines bad, and that’s what worries me about future games.
[/quote]
I’m just assuming that Halo being on Xbox one will help. :slight_smile:

9

> I made a thread about a month ago on this same subject.

I remember that thread!

> Seeing marines actually take cover, dock their haeds and get up occasionally to return fire and not just stand and take a good 20 hits before they die.

The problem is that they are already programmed to do that, it’s just not good at it.

Marines seem Scripted to take cover in Halo 4, which means they take cover when the game specificially tells them its time to take cover, like on the Level Infinity, all 6 of the marines take cover behind their Turret walls, but it’s only via a scripted path that tells them when and where to take cover. In any other level where marines are present, they never take cover.

Troopers and Marines in Reach and past did take cover with a free AI, but it was very clunky, they only took cover when heavily suppressed, and had to actvely come out of that cover in order to fire their guns.

As for docking their heads, they do that also, but it’s purely for antithetical purposes, it’s part of their Cover animation when crouching, and isn’t used to actually find out where the enemy is.

> Marines pulling their wounded into cover, I see allot of this in titanfall with the grunts.

Damn, grunts in Titanfall do this stuff? I should watch more gameplay footage. If NPCs work this way in Titanfall, 343i has a lot to live up to in terms of allied AI programming.

Anyway, this would fit the theme of the UNSC perfectly. A modern-like Military that is suffering heavy casualties to an enemy alien race wouldn’t just let their troops die out in the field without any care. In Halo 3 one can see Marines with head and arm bandages, why not let Medics actual patch allies up in this fashion ON THE SCREEN, rather than Off of it?

also, if marines retrieve their wounded and can potentially revive them, this is all the more reason to support your marines as a player; help protect the ones that are alive, and you can help bring more back to fight for you.

10

> 343i should take a page out of Halo 3 and mimic it’s Allied AI.
>
> Even on legendary they were useful.

Really?

If I remember correctly, Halo 3 was heavily criticized by having poor AI. This was demonstrated magnificiently in the level The Storm when you have the Marines with the Rocket Launchers on the Mongooses.

All I can remember from that level was the Marines either blowing me up when I happened to drive near an enemy, shooting the Rocket Launcher the moment I flipped over, and driving me off the edge when I made the unfortunate mistake of letting them drive.

However, I think Reach was worse. And the only thing that saved Halo 4 was that the Spartan IV’s didn’t die like they’re made out of paper.

11

> Really?
>
> If I remember correctly, Halo 3 was heavily criticized by having poor AI. This was demonstrated magnificiently in the level The Storm when you have the Marines with the Rocket Launchers on the Mongooses.

To be fair, those rockets WERE Dumb-fired :stuck_out_tongue:

i found more success simply spamming the two mounted missile pods near the exit, but i digress

> All I can remember from that level was the Marines either blowing me up when I happened to drive near an enemy, shooting the Rocket Launcher the moment I flipped over, and driving me off the edge when I made the unfortunate mistake of letting them drive.

They aren’t stellar AI, I know, but they’re a ton better than the current AI. Leave a Marine along with a Grunt for 3 seconds, and you’ll find a Dead marine, and an almost-untouched Grunt.

In Soldier vs. Soldier combat, i found that H3 Marines were the most effective, even on Legendary. For my purposes, i’m ignoring their extra “features” like Driving vehicles, and comprehending variable map geometry (like being ejected from a vehicle).

Halo 3 Marines had better gun use, dodged fire more frequently, and constantly pelted the enemy with grenades, things an outgunned soldier should be doing in the first place.

> However, I think Reach was worse. And the only thing that saved Halo 4 was that the Spartan IV’s didn’t die like they’re made out of paper.

This is the point i’m trying to prove.

But if you Notice, the only thing good about AI-controlled Spartan-IVs are that they have Shields. Pay more attention to how they behave, and you’ll notice that their AI behavior is exactly the same to Marines, which makes them truly nothing special, just typical Marines with more “Health”.

12

I never was a huge fan of Halo 2, but my favorite friendly AI encounters come from that game, namely being the ODST on Delta Halo. Give them a sniper or rocket and they could pin point fire at enemies I couldn’t even see yet. So when I’m traveling through the cannon with four sniper-wielding ODSTs behind me, they are picking off the sniper Jackals like it is hunting season.

In Reach, it disappointed me when I received the Gauss Hog on ONI: Sword Base because the AI soldier in the turret would only fire when you were about 20 ft from an enemy, which is terrible when going up against Revenants and Wraiths. And if I tried to hop into the turret and pick them off from afar, the AI would get in the driver seat and head off the nearest cliff. So frustrating on Legendary runs.

So ya, in short I pretty much want the AI to have nearly unlimited sight range and accuracy, and have infinite ammo for the weapons I give them. Be great too if you were immune to their friendly fire damage as well.

> > Marines pulling their wounded into cover, I see allot of this in titanfall with the grunts.
>
> Damn, grunts in Titanfall do this stuff? I should watch more gameplay footage. If NPCs work this way in Titanfall, 343i has a lot to live up to in terms of allied AI programming.

The Grunts in Titanfall that are pulling a wounded soldier to cover are scripted spawns, just like the ones going hand to hand with other grunts and spectres.

13

Make the Marines act more like humans like Titanfall’s Grunts make them react to you and to other UNSC.

Seeing John:
The Chief’s with Us!
Is that really him!?
Spartan incoming!
A True Spartan!
Master Chief!
Survival rate just gone up to 100!
Tell us what to do Sir!

Trading Superior Weapon:
I owe you one.
Thanks Chief!
I knew you guys were human.
I’ll make it count.

Trading Inferior Weapon:
I know this is for the best.
You’ll do much more with that than I.
Please Make it Count.
This is more sensible… I guess.

Killing Covies:
Nice Moves!
Spot On!
Great Work!
That Guy had no chance!

Successful firefight:
Wooo!
He’s better than thought!
Spartans really are the future!
He lives up to the legends.

1-2 Marines remained:
They’ll pay for this!
This guys will never be forgotten.
They’re like brothers to me you know?

Have some conversing UNSC as well like A Marine and an ODST dicussing about the Sangheili Civil War or 2 Spartan 4s talking about their ODST days in the Human-Covenant war.

14

For starters i think the Npc’s need to be more around Chief in the next campaign.

15

> So ya, in short I pretty much want the AI to have nearly unlimited sight range and accuracy, and have infinite ammo for the weapons I give them. Be great too if you were immune to their friendly fire damage as well.

You don’t want to give allies unlimited range with any weapon, otherwise Marines would be a little overpowered. Give a marine a Rocket launcher or Spartan laser, and the Marie will take down all the enemy covenant before the covenant can respond.

Marines are already pretty accurate, no need to change that.
And Marines also have infinite ammo as well.

I say no to getting rid of Friendly fire with Marines. While i do agree getting killed by your allies is a little annoying, i feel you should still be conscious about what your allies are doing. AI has improved slightly in that Marines typically don’t shot rockets at walls, but they still don’t tell us when they’re going to fire their rocket, some kind of alert would be nice, similar to how they announce when they are throwing a grenade.

:confused:

16

> > So ya, in short I pretty much want the AI to have nearly unlimited sight range and accuracy, and have infinite ammo for the weapons I give them. Be great too if you were immune to their friendly fire damage as well.
>
> You don’t want to give allies unlimited range with any weapon, otherwise Marines would be a little overpowered. Give a marine a Rocket launcher or Spartan laser, and the Marie will take down all the enemy covenant before the covenant can respond.
>
> Marines are already pretty accurate, no need to change that.
> And Marines also have infinite ammo as well.
>
>
> I say no to getting rid of Friendly fire with Marines. While i do agree getting killed by your allies is a little annoying, i feel you should still be conscious about what your allies are doing. AI has improved slightly in that Marines typically don’t shot rockets at walls, but they still don’t tell us when they’re going to fire their rocket, some kind of alert would be nice, similar to how they announce when they are throwing a grenade.
>
>
> :confused:

yeah i have to agree, invincible marines are not the answer. they should be good but not god.

they need better tactics, a bit more health, dodging, and driving skills.

17

Republic Commando Squad Controls + Master Chief and Blue Team.

Problem solved.

18

Anybody else remember when in Halo 3, sometimes a Marine would go up to a dead Marine, crouch, and say something like “I’ll be sure to get that letter to your parents.” or when an Elite would say a small prayer (even to dead humans) ?

19

> 343i should take a page out of Halo 3 and mimic it’s Allied AI.
>
> Even on legendary they were useful.

I also remember them killing me 17 times on legendary when I was trying to board the -Yoink!- scarab (I was crying in terror by the end of it.) They should be capable of killing people but because of competent AI work (see. Titan Ai’s) not infinite rockets or any other form of cheating.

20

you forgot Elites