I always loved how Reach’s AI tried to surround the player and try strategies to kill spartans, I hope enemy NPCs will behave more like that in Halo Infinite! 
In Halo 5 they just stand and shoot from Kilometers…
Would you like that?
We don’t know details about the Slipspace engine, but it might provide some tools for more advanced AI in Halo Infinite. I hope they go in a step beyond and make the AI more challenging, since we already know from the first Halo game how to take down each one of the enemies.
The problem is not the ability to make advanced AI, it’s more about finding the balance by offer challenging gameplay without computer absolutely wrecking the player.
But AI strategies should definitely be designed with common strategies instead of stop & go gameplay that seemed to be over-represented in H5g with running from spawnpoint to spawnpoint with many enemies being bulletsponges that made precision weapons far too favorable over multiple other options.
But I think it goes without saying that enemy AI using basic strategies like flanking is pretty much given by this day & age while difficulties should up the enemy AI too instead of just detection, accuracy, damage & HP changes.
agree i hope that the ai go back to a more classic mechanic where different ai have different tactic i.e.: suicidal grunts
Ah AI a very interesting subject, but instead of competent AI I think character of the AI is more important as it will give a more immersive feel and fleshes out the NPCs. When talking about AI I liked to refer to the Packman Dossier as each ghost has their own behavior when it comes to chasing packman. You might not have noticed this but it does give each ghost their one behavior while everyone feared the Red one but pretty much laughed at the orange one.
This is where I believe the Prometheans failed as a concept. Take the crawlers, they acted more like the flood in the fact that they swarmed you in numbers and just rushed after you shooting at you until you or they were dead. It was like 343 took the flood and the sentinels and simply put them together. That tactic works with the flood but not with sentient machines. It would have been better if they acted more like sentinels. Using their ability to climb to out flank you and attack you at different angels instead of rushing and swarming you.
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> I always loved how Reach’s AI tried to surround the player and try strategies to kill spartans, I hope enemy NPCs will behave more like that in Halo Infinite!
> In Halo 5 they just stand and shoot from Kilometers…
> Would you like that?
Now you’re speaking my language op!
Although to be fair, flanking has been a thing in every Halo game, it’s just especially apparent in HR, H2, and HCE since the main enemies are Elites, which are constantly on the move compared to Brutes.
Yeah AI will usually stand still and shoot from a distance if you’re not engaging them or backpedaling/moving around. That’s been a thing since Halo CE.
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> The problem is not the ability to make advanced AI, it’s more about finding the balance by offer challenging gameplay without computer absolutely wrecking the player.
>
> But AI strategies should definitely be designed with common strategies instead of stop & go gameplay that seemed to be over-represented in H5g with running from spawnpoint to spawnpoint with many enemies being bulletsponges that made precision weapons far too favorable over multiple other options.
>
> But I think it goes without saying that enemy AI using basic strategies like flanking is pretty much given by this day & age while difficulties should up the enemy AI too instead of just detection, accuracy, damage & HP changes.
True, it’d be easy enough to make AI seem advanced by giving them outrageous firing rates, accuracy/damage (H2 Jackal snipers), no overheat, ultra fast shield recharge rate (H2 Ultra Elites), insanely fast melee rate (H2 Brutes), enhanced senses, lightning quick reflexes, sped up animations, etc. but then that’s just leads to the cheating -Yoink-/damage sponge issue (see H2 and HR Legendary). These are merely crutches to compensate for defects in the AI.
I’m not sure about H5, but I appreciated how H4 made the other weapons in the sandbox viable again. I didn’t find the need for a precision loadout to always be the case like in H2/H3/Reach.
I think 343i could probably build on the berserk mechanic. HCE started it off very basic: get up close or do enough damage and the Elite goes bonkers. Same with the marines, Flood combat forms, and Hunters. The berserk animation for Elites and marines also served as an opportunity to get a shot in. Starting from H2, the bond brother relationship was introduced (the last surviving Brute). I’m not sure which game first featured for Hunter pairs (I seem to remember seeing it occur in H3), but that’s pretty much where berserking ceased developing if memory serves me correctly.
But what if there was more to it than the npc simply raising his arms in the air/dropping his gun/doing a sword pull? Such as an evasive maneuver to close the distance, active camo (not sure if they already do this), or a feint to trick the player into approaching and lowering his guard.
> 2666640315087182;5:
> Ah AI a very interesting subject, but instead of competent AI I think character of the AI is more important as it will give a more immersive feel and fleshes out the NPCs. When talking about AI I liked to refer to the Packman Dossier as each ghost has their own behavior when it comes to chasing packman. You might not have noticed this but it does give each ghost their one behavior while everyone feared the Red one but pretty much laughed at the orange one.
>
> This is where I believe the Prometheans failed as a concept. Take the crawlers, they acted more like the flood in the fact that they swarmed you in numbers and just rushed after you shooting at you until you or they were dead. It was like 343 took the flood and the sentinels and simply put them together. That tactic works with the flood but not with sentient machines. It would have been better if they acted more like sentinels. Using their ability to climb to out flank you and attack you at different angels instead of rushing and swarming you.
Great vid, I agree. HCE gave AI a variety of not only appearances (notably the squid shaped helmet for Elites and the curlback Grunts), but also in how they reacted to being stuck with a grenade/needle shards, how they dove from vehicles, how they reacted when they spotted you, how they panicked, etc. Halo 4 brought back more realistic death animations for Covies compared to the ragdoll physics of H2/H3, that was a good start.
I think the Crawlers worked as an effective counter to the Flood (having them climb around and camp from inaccessible spots would make them too much like Flood Ranged pure forms, which were a major complaint in H3), but imo it was the Watchers which left much room to be desired. They were hard to hit, constantly on the move, could fly to inaccessible locations for a shield recharge, and unnecessarily dragged the battle out.
The Knights were annoying with their teleport, but I don’t know if this has been adjusted in H5.
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> > 2535441330154481;1:
> >
>
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> > 2533274890014309;3:
> > The problem is not the ability to make advanced AI, it’s more about finding the balance by offer challenging gameplay without computer absolutely wrecking the player.
> >
> > But AI strategies should definitely be designed with common strategies instead of stop & go gameplay that seemed to be over-represented in H5g with running from spawnpoint to spawnpoint with many enemies being bulletsponges that made precision weapons far too favorable over multiple other options.
> >
> > But I think it goes without saying that enemy AI using basic strategies like flanking is pretty much given by this day & age while difficulties should up the enemy AI too instead of just detection, accuracy, damage & HP changes.
>
> True, it’d be easy enough to make AI seem advanced by giving them outrageous firing rates, accuracy/damage (H2 Jackal snipers), no overheat, ultra fast shield recharge rate (H2 Ultra Elites), insanely fast melee rate (H2 Brutes), enhanced senses, lightning quick reflexes, sped up animations, etc. but then that’s just leads to the cheating -Yoink-/damage sponge issue (see H2 and HR Legendary). These are merely crutches to compensate for defects in the AI.
>
> I’m not sure about H5, but I appreciated how H4 made the other weapons in the sandbox viable again. I didn’t find the need for a precision loadout to always be the case like in H2/H3/Reach.
>
> I think 343i could probably build on the berserk mechanic. HCE started it off very basic: get up close or do enough damage and the Elite goes bonkers. Same with the marines, Flood combat forms, and Hunters. The berserk animation for Elites and marines also served as an opportunity to get a shot in. Starting from H2, the bond brother relationship was introduced (the last surviving Brute). I’m not sure which game first featured for Hunter pairs (I seem to remember seeing it occur in H3), but that’s pretty much where berserking ceased developing if memory serves me correctly.
>
> But what if there was more to it than the npc simply raising his arms in the air or dropping his gun/doing a sword pull? Such as an evasive maneuver to close the distance, erratic movement (like the H2 berserking Brutes), or a feint to trick the player into approaching/lowering his guard.
Otherwise that seems about right but berserking brutes were more like gain some lose some situation, the melee rate didn’t seem too unbeliveable while they lost the advantage in range and depending on situation, had their HP partially drained or were low on allies who could utilize flanking fire while player was likely focused on berserking brute. So pretty much a tradeoff that I liked about Halo 2 brutes. They were meant to be huge ape like creatures who more than likely could do some serious damage in close combat. Best iteration of brutes so far, unlike the wussies that were on later installments.
But how I found precision loadout to be much more viable in in H4/H5g were the simply the added horrible (and not in a good way) faction of enemies that were, the prometheans. In H4 the watchers were pretty simple to handle from afar with precision weapons due to constantly spawning crawlers, which were also unsurprisingly even easier to handle with precision weapons (robots having insta-kill spot on head, what kind of design choice is that?) Knights were bulletsponges in any case with the last second teleport to regenerate shields if not handled by precision weapon while the skull was exposed.
So having precision weapon dominated against that class but with the covenant other weapons definitely were more viable.
And I dont think I need to lenghten the post with H5g promethean description for topics considering their design are possibly fresher given H5g is the newest FPS installment. But I can if asked.
What has been the case in Halo (usually) that the full auto weapons are less efficient, even when fired in bursts, than plasma/precision weapon combinations, which gap is shortened when encountering hunters or smaller enemies (given jackals/grunts can be stunlocked with bursts) for example(with Halo Reach having tried to possibly make full-auto weapons even more viable against higher class grunts by adding the mask in sense of time to kill), but precision still is dominant in most cases.
So the covenant (or whatever alien faction with familiar species there will be) could have some adjustments made to them with maybe mixing HP/shield so that some enemies could be more vulnerable to even standard assault rifle than simple headshotting with pistol (in older games sentinels/enforcers could have been closer to that than other enemy classes).
Though I do remember that in Halo Reach, headshotting enemies with assault rifle bursts worked pretty fine due to first shots being rather accurate.
And berserk/bond mechanics could be worked on but mostly it could be just mathematical adjustments, otherwise they could improve the berserk AI by improving their cover mechanics by having them closing distance by utilizing covers.or Hunter approaching with speed while other troops started flanking.
What I would like to see to return is the kamikaze mechanism for grunts which im not sure why it was removed in the 1st place for H4 given it gave a reason not to just run & smack grunts & gave the basic enemy class some variation. This could be improved by ambush tactics where last of the grunt(s) could hide behind cover and activate the grenade when in close proximity while some kamikazes would cause confusion about their numbers by doing the usual suicide run.
> 2533274890014309;7:
> So pretty much a tradeoff that I liked about Halo 2 brutes. They were meant to be huge ape like creatures who more than likely could do some serious damage in close combat. Best iteration of brutes so far, unlike the wussies that were on later installments.
Yep, you nailed it. H3 Brutes tried to be like Elites and failed miserably. They were really only a threat in large numbers, due to the increased damage and firing rate. HR Brutes were balanced better (armor ability usage aside) with a much more interesting posture and two-handed wielding, but still largely inferior to their Elite comrades.
> 2533274890014309;7:
> Knights were bulletsponges in any case with the last second teleport to regenerate shields if not handled by precision weapon while the skull was exposed. So having precision weapon dominated against that class but with the covenant other weapons definitely were more viable.
>
> And I dont think I need to lenghten the post with H5g promethean description for topics considering their design are possibly fresher given H5g is the newest FPS installment. But I can if asked.
Hmm in hindsight, I guess the knights were the worse offenders.
Alrighty.
> 2533274890014309;7:
> What has been the case in Halo (usually) that the full auto weapons are less efficient, even when fired in bursts, than plasma/precision weapon combinations, which gap is shortened when encountering hunters or smaller enemies (given jackals/grunts can be stunlocked with bursts) for example(with Halo Reach having tried to possibly make full-auto weapons even more viable against higher class grunts by adding the mask in sense of time to kill), but precision still is dominant in most cases.
> So the covenant (or whatever alien faction with familiar species there will be) could have some adjustments made to them with maybe mixing HP/shield so that some enemies could be more vulnerable to even standard assault rifle than simple headshotting with pistol (in older games sentinels/enforcers could have been closer to that than other enemy classes).
Yep, and the Tilt skull pretty much acknowledged this disparity. I think skulls should be balanced between fun and difficulty enhancement, otherwise it’s just too one-sidedly punishing (H2), too gamebreaking (CEA), or somewhat uninteresting (classic SLASO in H3/ODST/Reach/4, damage sponges spamming nades while dodging like ninjas). There could be a classic playlist or game mode which only enables the classic SLASO skulls, while making room for other possibilities in normal playthroughs.
Agreed about some Covie sect classes having a weak spot in their armor. Like how the Hunters had their stomach/back exposed and how the Jackals have a slit in their shield allowing you to shoot their hand.
> 2533274890014309;7:
> Though I do remember that in Halo Reach, headshotting enemies with assault rifle bursts worked pretty fine due to first shots being rather accurate.
Yeah, the AR is surprisingly effective when it has decent accuracy and a large enough clip size to work with.
> 2533274890014309;7:
> And berserk/bond mechanics could be worked on but mostly it could be just mathematical adjustments, otherwise they could improve the berserk AI by improving their cover mechanics by having them closing distance by utilizing covers.or Hunter approaching with speed while other troops started flanking.
Yeah, similar to the HCE Zealot, which would often hide behind cover when he was charging you on the AotCR bridge.
> 2533274890014309;7:
> What I would like to see to return is the kamikaze mechanism for grunts which im not sure why it was removed in the 1st place for H4 given it gave a reason not to just run & smack grunts & gave the basic enemy class some variation.
> This could be improved by ambush tactics where last of the grunt(s) could hide behind cover and activate the grenade when in close proximity while some kamikazes would cause confusion about their numbers by doing the usual suicide run.
That is an excellent point, one that I completely overlooked. I remember orchestrating kamikaze Grunt trains in H3 Covenant at the first tower (by killing the lone Brute below the elevator), that was hilarious stuff! This one’s a classic: Suicide Grunt Train (HILLARIOUS) - YouTube
Aside from it’s obvious comical effect, it is also surprisingly practical. As a matter of fact, there was sometimes one or two Grunts who got delayed in the first tower so they could catch you off-guard if you weren’t prepared.
Although Kamikaze Grunts appeared in HR Exodus, H4 Composer and even Spartan Ops, they were deliberately deployed suicide squads, scripted encounters rather than being a random occurence. I’ve also read that they spawned in H5’s second mission.
Well all I want the AI to do is be balanced and ban the Prometheans from teleporting…seriously never hated an AI ability as much till Halo 5 came out plus they need to fix their awful homing abilities that seems to lock onto anything…no matter where you/they are and in many cases instant kill the player on spawn.
I don’t understand how we got every single AI to generally be fair in most Halo games and make the worst overpowered AI I’ve ever seen in H5, kind of feels like whoever was programming H5 played too much Dark Souls. So I really hope Halo Infinite fix’s the issues and make the AI more balanced and no more cheap kills like the Warden that fires a black hole that makes me wonder why I can’t dodge…
> 2666640315087182;5:
> Ah AI a very interesting subject, but instead of competent AI I think character of the AI is more important as it will give a more immersive feel and fleshes out the NPCs. When talking about AI I liked to refer to the Packman Dossier as each ghost has their own behavior when it comes to chasing packman. You might not have noticed this but it does give each ghost their one behavior while everyone feared the Red one but pretty much laughed at the orange one.
>
> This is where I believe the Prometheans failed as a concept. Take the crawlers, they acted more like the flood in the fact that they swarmed you in numbers and just rushed after you shooting at you until you or they were dead. It was like 343 took the flood and the sentinels and simply put them together. That tactic works with the flood but not with sentient machines. It would have been better if they acted more like sentinels. Using their ability to climb to out flank you and attack you at different angels instead of rushing and swarming you.
This is a great point! Yes this should definetly be considered to make better AI
your reply also reminded me that in Halo 5 there’s not much tactic talk between enemy units, I remember often happening in Halo 3 stuff like:
- Brute: “Go get him” - Grunt: “Yessir” (Don’t recall the actual lines sorry XD)
> 2533274829873463;9:
> Well all I want the AI to do is be balanced and ban the Prometheans from teleporting…seriously never hated an AI ability as much till Halo 5 came out plus they need to fix their awful homing abilities that seems to lock onto anything…no matter where you/they are and in many cases instant kill the player on spawn.
>
> I don’t understand how we got every single AI to generally be fair in most Halo games and make the worst overpowered AI I’ve ever seen in H5, kind of feels like whoever was programming H5 played too much Dark Souls. So I really hope Halo Infinite fix’s the issues and make the AI more balanced and no more cheap kills like the Warden that fires a black hole that makes me wonder why I can’t dodge…
Yeah I didn’t even think about the Warden, I hate it so much I did forget it exists