After playing BR starts, I am sure the AR isn't OP

With AR starts, it was easy to see why people felt the AR and SMG were overpowered, even if I disagreed that they were: They are now very effective weapons, and you got killed a lot by them, especially since get shot by two AR or SMG’s at once would absolutely shred you.

But having been killed by competent magnum, BR, and DMR users on truth and empire even though I used the AR and SMG on them at close/medium to close distances when I have made mistakes, I was fairly certain that they were in fact balenced, and people were just not used to being killed with the AR or SMG really much at all.

Now, having played BR starts on regret and eden, I am even more sure that they are not overpowered. Eden and regret are both slightly larger then their counterparts, and I find that with BR starts, using the AR or SMG effectively is a lot more difficult (as it should be on larger maps, granted). It requires a lot of flanking and covering fire to make good use of them outside of close or medium close range corridors. It’s not easy by any means to use them here, nor have I seen anybody go on a huge massacre with them.

If somebody legitimately feels they are currently overpowered still, i’d love to hear your thoughts and discuss it with you, but most people who want them nerfed seem to think that if they aren’t niche weapons only useful in close ranges, that they are too powerful, which is pretty unreasonable.

So yeah, thoughts on this?

Note that while I do not think they are overpowered, I agree they need tweaks. Simply holding down the trigger with the AR is too effective, bursting offers an only minimal benefit if even that (it hurts more then it helps on AR on AR fights at close range), and the headshot bonus on the SMG needs to go. The reason I do not consider these nerfs is because they mostly leave the current effectiveness of the weapon the same, it simply makes achieving that level of effectiveness harder. I also want to note that I agree the current time to kill for the weapons is too fast, but I feel that is a universal problem in halo 5, and is not exclusive to the AR and SMG.

I agree…not much else to say.

Still think smg is a little OP headshot bonus needs to go and range is a little long

After BR starts I’m coming around to your way of thinking. The only time I’ve been killed by an AR is when I was unaware in CQB, I still think the ARs headshot multiplier should be reduced but not by much.

I’ll agree. I will say that with br starts I’ve encountered less people using much of anything else. That could still be that people don’t know where things are on the map though. Idk.

Get rid of its headshot modifier and reduce the range both in and out of ADS and I’m completely happy

I’ll agree after playing 7+ hours of the beta, I have no problems with the current weapon balance.

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> Get rid of its headshot modifier and reduce the range both in and out of ADS and I’m completely happy

I think the SMG head shot modifier should go, but the AR one should stay if they can figure out a way so that it won’t activate if it occurs due to random spread; perhaps making it so the damage modifier scales down in proportion to how long the trigger is being held for, or only the first few shots in a burst can get it.

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> > 2533274832130936;6:
> > Get rid of its headshot modifier and reduce the range both in and out of ADS and I’m completely happy
>
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> I think the SMG head shot modifier should go, but the AR one should stay if they can figure out a way so that it won’t activate if it occurs due to random spread; perhaps making it so the damage modifier scales down in proportion to how long the trigger is being held for, or only the first few shots in a burst can get it.

The bloom reset to neutral needs to be faster to really reward manual burst firing first and foremost.

I think the AR and SMG are perfectly balanced. I like their scope in mode and I like their headshot multiplier.

I kind of thought they were OP in the first week of the beta but after playing 20 matches of BR starts, I can say that nerfing them even the slightest will make them garbage.

If they were really OP, both would still be extremely popular pickup weapons in Team BRs. As of now, I hardly ever get killed by them

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> > 2533274805591413;8:
> > > 2533274832130936;6:
> > > Get rid of its headshot modifier and reduce the range both in and out of ADS and I’m completely happy
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> >
> >
> > I think the SMG head shot modifier should go, but the AR one should stay if they can figure out a way so that it won’t activate if it occurs due to random spread; perhaps making it so the damage modifier scales down in proportion to how long the trigger is being held for, or only the first few shots in a burst can get it.
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> The bloom reset to neutral needs to be faster to really reward manual burst firing first and foremost.

That, some other ideas I have is to lower the rate of fire but raise the damage proptionally, so it has the “same” TTK (after it’s TTK is upped, like all other guns, since that’s needed), but shot placement is more important due to reduced volume of fire; make it so spread increases and bullet magnetism decreases exponentially in relation to the longer the trigger is held, etc

They’re fine in hip fire. That ADS BS which tightens their spread is the worst though.

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> > 2533274808578327;9:
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> > > > 2533274832130936;6:
> > > > Get rid of its headshot modifier and reduce the range both in and out of ADS and I’m completely happy
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> > >
> > > I think the SMG head shot modifier should go, but the AR one should stay if they can figure out a way so that it won’t activate if it occurs due to random spread; perhaps making it so the damage modifier scales down in proportion to how long the trigger is being held for, or only the first few shots in a burst can get it.
> >
> >
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> > The bloom reset to neutral needs to be faster to really reward manual burst firing first and foremost.
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> That, some other ideas I have is to lower the rate of fire but raise the damage proptionally, so it has the “same” TTK (after it’s TTK is upped, like all other guns, since that’s needed), but shot placement is more important due to reduced volume of fire; make it so spread increases and bullet magnetism decreases exponentially in relation to the longer the trigger is held, etc

That sounded a little complicated, so you simply want bullet spread gone altogether and make it so there’s less bullet magnetism as the trigger is held down long enough? That would have to be really quick then since this AR is quite a killer.

I agree

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> > > 2533274808578327;9:
> > > > 2533274805591413;8:
> > > > > 2533274832130936;6:
> > > > > Get rid of its headshot modifier and reduce the range both in and out of ADS and I’m completely happy
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> > > >
> > > > I think the SMG head shot modifier should go, but the AR one should stay if they can figure out a way so that it won’t activate if it occurs due to random spread; perhaps making it so the damage modifier scales down in proportion to how long the trigger is being held for, or only the first few shots in a burst can get it.
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> > >
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> > > The bloom reset to neutral needs to be faster to really reward manual burst firing first and foremost.
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> >
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> > That, some other ideas I have is to lower the rate of fire but raise the damage proptionally, so it has the “same” TTK (after it’s TTK is upped, like all other guns, since that’s needed), but shot placement is more important due to reduced volume of fire; make it so spread increases and bullet magnetism decreases exponentially in relation to the longer the trigger is held, etc
>
>
> That sounded a little complicated, so you simply want bullet spread gone altogether and make it so there’s less bullet magnetism as the trigger is held down long enough? That would have to be really quick then since this AR is quite a killer.

Basically, make it so instead of spread increasing by a constant % as the trigger is held down, it increases exponentially, and the amount of bullet magnetism decreases the longer the trigger is held down.

Another option would be to make it so the headshot modifier only applies for the first few shots in a burst.

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> > > > > 2533274805591413;8:
> > > > > > 2533274832130936;6:
> > > > > > Get rid of its headshot modifier and reduce the range both in and out of ADS and I’m completely happy
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> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I think the SMG head shot modifier should go, but the AR one should stay if they can figure out a way so that it won’t activate if it occurs due to random spread; perhaps making it so the damage modifier scales down in proportion to how long the trigger is being held for, or only the first few shots in a burst can get it.
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> > > >
> > > >
> > > > The bloom reset to neutral needs to be faster to really reward manual burst firing first and foremost.
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> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > That, some other ideas I have is to lower the rate of fire but raise the damage proptionally, so it has the “same” TTK (after it’s TTK is upped, like all other guns, since that’s needed), but shot placement is more important due to reduced volume of fire; make it so spread increases and bullet magnetism decreases exponentially in relation to the longer the trigger is held, etc
> >
> >
> >
> > That sounded a little complicated, so you simply want bullet spread gone altogether and make it so there’s less bullet magnetism as the trigger is held down long enough? That would have to be really quick then since this AR is quite a killer.
>
>
> Basically, make it so instead of spread increasing by a constant % as the trigger is held down, it increases exponentially, and the amount of bullet magnetism decreases the longer the trigger is held down.
>
> Another option would be to make it so the headshot modifier only applies for the first few shots in a burst.

That… sounds rather fine though I still want the bloom to settle faster so the incentive to burst fire with the AR is greater than pinning the trigger.