After Anthem I fear for Halo 6

Games Halo Infinite
1

Anthem has just recently released and the reviews are not looking good. You may be asking “how does this relate to Halo 6?” Well in my opinion Anthems development has shown a couple similarities to that of Halo 6. Both Halo Infinite and Anthem are considered “Games as a service” so that spawns the fear of lack of content during release. You may say “Infinite has been the longest halo game in development ever” which is true but Anthem was also in development for 6 years and it’s still on the shallow side of content. Halo Infinite has also been rumored to have more Rpg like gameplay like in Anthem, hell even a branching story which in my opinion has no place in a (mainstream) halo game, I wouldn’t mind more open levels that encourage exploration but different endings or for example lvl 5 elites or level 13 Hunters will not fit in campaign or even feel like halo. To rebuttle this you may say “343 is listening to their fans, Just look at the art style” and I would agree with you but art style isn’t everything for example Anthem is absolutely beautiful but its story is lackluster. And Yes I know Anthem and Halo Infinite where and are being developed by totally different developers and publishers but the similarities are rather hard to not point out. So do I have a point or am I just overthinking it.?

P.s. I wouldn’t mind if the Rpg elements where added to an online mode like spartan ops or warzone just not campaign.

2

Not trying to stray away from the topic of Halo, but, I’ve been playing Anthem for the passed 2 days and I’ve been having a blast. I was pretty skeptical about the game because it felt overly hyped and my friends wouldn’t stop talking about it, but I’m really enjoying it. But I still think it’s far too early to be judging both Anthem AND Halo: Infinite. We just don’t know enough about both games (especially Infinite) to be scared about anything being there or not being there.

Do I want Infinite to be great and succeed? Of course I do! Halo is my most loved series and I would dread to see it go down the toilet! But getting worked up and worried this early on does you no good. You’re liable to get worked up over nothing.

As always it is encouraged to continue providing feedback especially if a dev pops into the forums and asks an important (or even offhand) question about the game being made. It can help them decide whether to add or scrap something before they get too far into development.

If 343i thinks they can do a more RPG styled Halo? Well, they’re daring, bold, and I say let’em have at it! They just need to be careful because if they have more games planned they’ll be hard pressed to find any support from Microsoft if the community isn’t too thrilled with what they’ve been getting lately.

And I do agree; a game is more than just pretty art you can’t physically touch (unless you buy some art on it). It’s a story with plots and mechanics that need to be worked out well before release date. A lot must be taken into consideration when deciding on whether or not you like a game.

3

> 2533274912313945;1:
> Anthem has just recently released and the reviews are not looking good. You may be asking “how does this relate to Halo 6?” Well in my opinion Anthems development has shown a couple similarities to that of Halo 6. Both Halo Infinite and Anthem are considered “Games as a service” so that spawns the fear of lack of content during release. You may say “Infinite has been the longest halo game in development ever” which is true but Anthem was also in development for 6 years and it’s still on the shallow side of content. Halo Infinite has also been rumored to have more Rpg like gameplay like in Anthem, hell even a branching story which in my opinion has no place in a (mainstream) halo game, I wouldn’t mind more open levels that encourage exploration but different endings or for example lvl 5 elites or level 13 Hunters will not fit in campaign or even feel like halo. To rebuttle this you may say “343 is listening to their fans, Just look at the art style” and I would agree with you but art style isn’t everything for example Anthem is absolutely beautiful but its story is lackluster. And Yes I know Anthem and Halo Infinite where and are being developed by totally different developers and publishers but the similarities are rather hard to not point out. So do I have a point or am I just overthinking it.?
>
> P.s. I wouldn’t mind if the Rpg elements where added to an online mode like spartan ops or warzone just not campaign.

Anthem is terrible imo, loading screens, slow movement in Tarsis, more loading screens, enemies disappearing, lack of content, did I mention loading screens, customisation is a joke compared to what we were shown and so much more.

However, I’m not worried about Halo Infinite because of Anthem. It’s a looter shooter, Halo is not. I have other concerns about Halo Infinite, but they’re not because of Anthem. Hopefully E3 this year will give us more Halo Infinite facts, that is what we need.

4

What you also forget, is that Halo has its loyal fanbase, where as Anthem is a totally new game. This means Halo 6 has its expectations to live up to from past games, where as Anthem can be success or flop from the get go.

343 had years to learn from their mistakes, listen to fans and improve. Look how they got their act together and began fixing MCC, the art style and communication with the fans.
This is Bioware’s first time with this particular experience. Anthem is a totally different game to Halo.

You don’t have to fear alot, based on how Anthem is recieved because it gets bashed, mostly for the EA sticker on the box.

5

I think your fears are fair. The first thing I think of when I hear the term “games as a service” I think of lack of content until a year + later, and the content that is there falls short in quality. I am really interested to see how these rumored RPG elements play out, I’m not particularly against it if done right, I think it could be a good way to evolve Halo.

6

Hey OP I understand your concerns but imo you shouldn’t be worried, also games as a service can be a good thing, you see The Witcher 3? That is an example of a games as a service done well, good amount of content at launch and then great expansions later on, I think Halo 5 could have been a good example as well if it didn’t launch with so little content, gears 4, fh3 or 4 etc just to give a few examples are games as a service as well.

Now on to Anthem’s problems we need to take into account that BioWare has never done a game like that before, sure some of their games had multiplayer before but they haven’t done a game of that scale yet and on top of that it seems like they’ve been having issues with the frostbite engine since back when they made dragon age 4, so that’s probably a reason for the lack of content as well, also halo is an established franchise so 343i already has some things to work from.

Bonnie Ross just said a few days ago in a recent interview (don’t remember the source) that Halo infinite’s longer dev time was to avoid crunch at launch so I wouldn’t worry about the game lacking content when it comes out, but we’ll see.

7

I’m not concerned at all to be honest about Anthem getting average reviews. Halo is a completely different animal.

What I am concerned about is this reoccurring trend that’s been in the video game industry for the last x years, of releasing unfinished games and fixing them as they go. I’m an older gamer. I was around when commodore, Atari, etc were a thing and when Nintendo and SEGA!! Release consoles. When internet first started happening, yes I remember when it did lol) with video games, I remember thinking how cool it would be as they could fix bugs and what not. Unfortunately, it’s been more of a just get the game out and we’ll fix it as we go type attitude which is just horrible!!!

As long as 343I take there time and release a game that is actually finished, then I think things will be fine. If they try to pull this garbage like they did somewhat with Halo 5 (no doubles, no BTB at launch and so forth) then I think they will get criticized hard! Pretty sure, I hope, they have learned from that.

As far as Anthem goes, it has gotten mixed reviews, and I wasn’t too big on it, but a few of my friends love it. I’d say play it for yourself and see what you think. Unfortunately, I think it might be a game like no man’s sky and TMCC, where in 6-18 months (or longer…) it’ll be a much better, polished game. It’s sad that this is how most video games seem to be now…

8

Have they specifically used the term “game as a service” with Halo? If they have I think we can safely assume it’s a bad direction to go in. I know Microsoft has pushed this for years now, but I don’t think I’ve heard anything specifically regarding Halo.

9

> 2779900484279609;8:
> Have they specifically used the term “game as a service” with Halo? If they have I think we can safely assume it’s a bad direction to go in. I know Microsoft has pushed this for years now, but I don’t think I’ve heard anything specifically regarding Halo.

Hasn’t Halo had downloadable content since 3 or 2? Halo has been a gaas type of game for over a decade now, every game that has expansions after launch weather it’s free or not is a gaas, people have this idea that a gaas is an unfinished product that will be finished after its released and it’s really not the case for every game, the problem is that a lot of games this gen have released with little content and this gen is when developers started to used the term “gaas” when most AAA games have basically been a service for the last decade but all gaas games aren’t unfinished products at launch.

10

> 2533274920741579;9:
> > 2779900484279609;8:
> > Have they specifically used the term “game as a service” with Halo? If they have I think we can safely assume it’s a bad direction to go in. I know Microsoft has pushed this for years now, but I don’t think I’ve heard anything specifically regarding Halo.
>
> Hasn’t Halo had downloadable content since 3 or 2? Halo has been a gaas type of game for over a decade now, every game that has expansions after launch weather it’s free or not is a gaas, people have this idea that a gaas is an unfinished product that will be finished after its released and it’s really not the case for every game, the problem is that a lot of games this gen have released with little content and this gen is when developers started to used the term “gaas” when most AAA games have basically been a service for the last decade but all gaas games aren’t unfinished products at launch.

I understand what you’re saying, but Halo has, up until the release of Halo 5 (maybe H4 as well, never played after a few matches) had what I consider a finished game and then dlc’s added on later. That may be gaas, but I think there is a distinction. Halo 5 came out missing normal content, just so they could string people along and add it in later. If they’re doing the latter or anything similarly again it’s not going to be received well. That was my only point.

11

> 2779900484279609;10:
> > 2533274920741579;9:
> > > 2779900484279609;8:
> > > Have they specifically used the term “game as a service” with Halo? If they have I think we can safely assume it’s a bad direction to go in. I know Microsoft has pushed this for years now, but I don’t think I’ve heard anything specifically regarding Halo.
> >
> > Hasn’t Halo had downloadable content since 3 or 2? Halo has been a gaas type of game for over a decade now, every game that has expansions after launch weather it’s free or not is a gaas, people have this idea that a gaas is an unfinished product that will be finished after its released and it’s really not the case for every game, the problem is that a lot of games this gen have released with little content and this gen is when developers started to used the term “gaas” when most AAA games have basically been a service for the last decade but all gaas games aren’t unfinished products at launch.
>
> I understand what you’re saying, but Halo has, up until the release of Halo 5 (maybe H4 as well, never played after a few matches) had what I consider a finished game and then dlc’s added on later. That may be gaas, but I think there is a distinction. Halo 5 came out missing normal content, just so they could string people along and add it in later. If they’re doing the latter or anything similarly again it’s not going to be received well. That was my only point.

I get it, I understand you, it’s true that sadly Halo 5 released with too little content but I don’t think it was done on purpose, they just ran out of time, it’s one of the reasons why they’re taking longer with infinite, I’ll get you the link to the interview ins few minutes, so at least they know this is an issue.

edit: links

12

> 2533274920741579;6:
> You see The Witcher 3? That is an example of a games as a service done well, good amount of content at launch and then great expansions later on, I think Halo 5 could have been a good example as well if it didn’t launch with so little content

I don’t think The Witcher 3 is a good example of a game as a service. The DLCs added amazing new content (Blood & Wine won GOTY), but they didn’t change aspects of the game, add in many new features (I can only recall a few small ones), and weren’t constant updates adding more and more new content and tweaking the game. They took a fully polished and beautiful game, then added even more content in addition to that that could be treated as a separate game even.

Whereas Halo 5 was not that (and I would consider it to be more of a game as a service). It released with a severe lack of content (no forge, few playlists, etc.) and the updates continuously added in these features. They also changed certain aspects of the game, buffing/nerfing weapons to balance them, changing up the meta a bit, etc. And they were more than just a couple of DLCs released months to years apart from each other, they were released with only monthly gaps in them.

Personally I don’t like this style of game at all. It allows (you could even say encourages) developers to release a less than stellar game at launch, and then add content later to draw out the attention span of players to keep them in the game (and if micro-transactions are present, spending their money). This isn’t how I think a full priced AAA game should work at all. When I drop $80 on a game I expect it to be a finished, polished game with everything it needs. Any DLC released at a later date should expand on things such as story (adding something independent to the main story like the DLCs for the Witcher 3 did), new maps, etc… The game’s meta shouldn’t change as gameplay elements are tweaked to better balance it, those balancing issues should have already been fixed with any betas/flighting programs. The game should play the same as it does at launch for it’s lifespan, maybe adding new gamemodes every so often, but not entire things such as forge. Games such as Reach kept my attention span for years and didn’t function like this. It just isn’t needed.

13

> 2533274909712896;12:
> I don’t think The Witcher 3 is a good example of a game as a service. The DLCs added amazing new content (Blood & Wine won GOTY), but they didn’t change aspects of the game, add in many new features (I can only recall a few small ones), and weren’t constant updates adding more and more new content and tweaking the game. They took a fully polished and beautiful game, then added even more content in addition to that that could be treated as a separate game eve.

Witcher 3 is not a good example of a bad example of live service games. Witcher 3 had more than just Hearts of Stone and Blood and Wine added. Free DLC was added to the game multiple times, including new quests, weapons, and armor/gear. Witcher 3 was not completely without bugs and CDPR fixed bugs as much as they could (they didn’t fix all of them, though).

I think Witcher 3 can be looked at as a live service game in some aspects. As a single-player game, though, obviously the live service takes a different form from live service multiplayer games. H5 was 343’s first real foray into drip-feeding content over a long period of time. The feedback on that was pretty clear: too little was provided at launch. Now, with Infinite likely being another live service game, we shouldn’t immediately assume it’s going to be another bad instance. We have yet to see whether 343 will learn from the mistake of launching H5 with too little.

> 2533274909712896;12:
> Any DLC released at a later date should expand on things such as story (adding something independent to the main story like the DLCs for the Witcher 3 did), new maps, etc… The game’s meta shouldn’t change as gameplay elements are tweaked to better balance it, those balancing issues should have already been fixed with any betas/flighting programs. The game should play the same as it does at launch for it’s lifespan, maybe adding new gamemodes every so often, but not entire things such as forge. Games such as Reach kept my attention span for years and didn’t function like this. It just isn’t needed.

No Halo game has ever had story DLC. I guess, in a way, H4’s Spartan Ops was kind of story-based DLC. But expecting Witcher 3-style paid expansions in a Halo game? That’s unrealistic. Witcher 3, unlike Halo, lacks multiplayer, so heavy expansions were needed for its longevity. Halo, on the other hand, keeps players coming back regularly for the multiplayer. Now, as far as multiplayer-based DLCs go, map packs of old divided the player-base, resulting in dead playlists or nobody being able to play the new maps they purchased since not everyone in their queue owned them. So adding maps for free is a much better system, and I’d like to see that carried over to Infinite. As for weapon balancing, metas change on their own as players learn weapon roles and functionalities. It’s impossible to predetermine a meta before launch, as no test program will ever hit the numbers that a full launch will bring, and its those numbers that result in the finding of the best weapons for particular situations. Even Reach changed drastically with it’s huge Title Update, tuning things like bloom, damage bleed through, armor lock, camo, and more. Sandbox tuning is a regular aspect of a shooter game like Halo and I expect such maintenance to continue in Infinite.

14

I say keep RPG out of my Halo but it’s ok to add aspects of it.
But to counter it I’d say the big difference is multiples. Anthem doesn’t have much in terms when it comes to multiplayer and that’s what they intended it to be. So end game can become stale if that’s not your thing. Halo on the other hand is an FPS. It’s an endgame relys purely on multiplayer.
Pick your cup of tea

15

If Halo 6 is like Anthem(crap) I will hate 343i forever. My only enthusiasm will be for MCC on PC. I will have less than zero faith in them that they can finally do a good job.

16

i’m very sceptical of the RPG elements. i don’t really see how they can be implemented in a way that makes sense with halo.
it is said it will affect the campaign, but that means there will be different branches of the story. this may lead to different endings which is kind of a problem for sequels unless you declare only one ending as canon. or it leads to the same ending and the choices are kind of useless. in both scenarios i don’t think it’s a good idea to implement it.
only thing i can see working is the option of a different aproach within a level, like Halo in CE or silent cartagropher, but that also shouldn’t be forced in every level and sacrifising a potential good story (which isn’t necessary the case, but it’s possible, that RPG elements like this water down the story).

but the worst thing i can see is an open sandbox world. this stuff needs to be filled with something and in many cases it is filled with repeating sidequests or it stays empty. i don’t want halo to go down that route.

the thing is: i think it will be implemented, bc RPG like games are easier to monetize and looking at -Yoink!- track record, they try to jump on every monetization scheme they can (lootboxes in h5, hw3, gow4 for example). and keep in mind, that the confirmed things are: MC centered story, mixed art style and microtransactions. this makes me fear on what the focus may be in the development which may lead to a lackluster campaign.

btw: i think thats -Yoink!- is pushing 343 to implement many consumer unfriendly things.

these things make me also think of destiny, anthem and other titels which are implementing these things and i’m very cautious about halo infinite.

17

> 2533274912313945;1:
> Anthem has just recently released and the reviews are not looking good. You may be asking “how does this relate to Halo 6?” Well in my opinion Anthems development has shown a couple similarities to that of Halo 6. Both Halo Infinite and Anthem are considered “Games as a service” so that spawns the fear of lack of content during release. You may say “Infinite has been the longest halo game in development ever” which is true but Anthem was also in development for 6 years and it’s still on the shallow side of content. Halo Infinite has also been rumored to have more Rpg like gameplay like in Anthem, hell even a branching story which in my opinion has no place in a (mainstream) halo game, I wouldn’t mind more open levels that encourage exploration but different endings or for example lvl 5 elites or level 13 Hunters will not fit in campaign or even feel like halo. To rebuttle this you may say “343 is listening to their fans, Just look at the art style” and I would agree with you but art style isn’t everything for example Anthem is absolutely beautiful but its story is lackluster. And Yes I know Anthem and Halo Infinite where and are being developed by totally different developers and publishers but the similarities are rather hard to not point out. So do I have a point or am I just overthinking it.?
>
> P.s. I wouldn’t mind if the Rpg elements where added to an online mode like spartan ops or warzone just not campaign.

Well it’s all rumors for right now on what infinite will be, but Anthem was developed by EA and that company is known for ruining franchises and rushing employees. So I think were safe for now

18

I remember a time long ago when Valve’s Gaben predicted games were no longer gonna be considered as having only a launch, but would be continually updated after its release. He was then referring to adding content and updates to Counter-Strike. He called it games as a service, but did not mean monetisation after intitial launch. Funny how GaaS has undoubtedly changed since then.

19

I think if theres one thing to learn from anthem and me: andromeda and even d1 at launch its that often times an extended dev cycle (4-6 years) is often times a sign of troubble not that of a good game on the way. Ofcourse there are examples on the opposite side like botw but just because infinite is taking what looks like an extra 2 years dosnt mean it will be good, infact it could end up being worse then h5 or h4. Do i think that will happen? Prooooooobably not. But im not discounting it.

As for rpg elements im mostly against them. Im a believer in even starts in matchmaking and campaign. Now having an unlock system for cosmetic armor and weapons to use in pve is all good but i really do not like having upgrade trees or attachments/different scopes on guns. Lets keep it simple. Was not a fan of all the clone weapons in wz. As for branching story im fine with side objectives in missions or being able to tackle objectives in different orders that effects how the rest of the mission plays (example go out of your way to save some marines, get rewarded with a tank instead of a worthog later in the mission) but halo should have a single narrative/story not any kind of branching one like mass effect.

20

Anthem was rebooted during its development, there’s no other reason for the chopped up narrative and empty shell of a game. So long as Halo Infinite doen’t show gameplay and visuals that do not exist in the release game, so long as the game they release is actually complete and representative of years of work (as opposed to 6 months of hastily mashing something together to meet a release date), I think Halo will be just fine. Plus, Anthem gutted all of their content so they could drip feed it out to players over the next year. Go back and watch the cosmetic stream Bioware did, they showed 6, maybe 8 armor pieces in the stream yet the release game has I think 2? The content is there, they’re just doling it out Bungie style.

If Infinite is a “games as a service”, they’d be crazy not to have the traditional campaign and then the “live service” part afterwards to keep players engaged over time.

Hopefully they’re following a God of War or Cyberpunk type of dev cycle (“when its ready”) so they can make a 10/10 game.