Advanced and classic movement compromise

How would feel abut this compromise between advanced and classic movement in halo infinite?

Proposed Formula:
-Increase base movement speed and jump height
-Replace ADS with classic zoom mechanic
-Keep Thruster pack
-Keep Hover
-Drastically reduced bullet magnetism
-have speed boosts and other pickups fill a similar role of power weapons

Necessary Removals:
-Sprint
-ADS
-Ground pound
-Spartan charge
-Clamber
-Slide
-Rediculous amount of bullet magnetism

I would be on board with this although I would remove thruster packs as well.

> 2533274814210937;2:
> I would be on board with this although I would remove thruster packs as well.

I wouldn’t be opposed to going full classic but I think if clamber and sprint are removed thruster pack can’t be chained with any other abilities and it becomes a lot less invasive and no longer becomes a detriment to the halo formula

Honestly, while I still don’t love the thruster pack or hover, this would be a worthwhile compromise.

https://youtu.be/Yz9GA6oTWTY
inovate through interaction, not base mechanics

> 2533274902525540;5:
> How to Innovate Halo Without Changing its Formula - YouTube

Ive seen this and agree with it

> 2533274888477235;1:
> How would feel abut this compromise between advanced and classic movement in halo infinite?
>
> Proposed Formula:
> -Increase base movement speed and jump height
> -Replace ADS with classic zoom mechanic
> -Keep Thruster pack
> -Keep Hover
> -Drastically reduced bullet magnetism
> -have speed boosts and other pickups fill a similar role of power weapons
>
> Necessary Removals:
> -Sprint
> -ADS
> -Ground pound
> -Spartan charge
> -Clamber
> -Slide
> -Rediculous amount of bullet magnetism

I would be ok with clamber,I hate the concept of hovering in halo

> 2533274830166194;7:
> > 2533274888477235;1:
> > How would feel abut this compromise between advanced and classic movement in halo infinite?
> >
> > Proposed Formula:
> > -Increase base movement speed and jump height
> > -Replace ADS with classic zoom mechanic
> > -Keep Thruster pack
> > -Keep Hover
> > -Drastically reduced bullet magnetism
> > -have speed boosts and other pickups fill a similar role of power weapons
> >
> > Necessary Removals:
> > -Sprint
> > -ADS
> > -Ground pound
> > -Spartan charge
> > -Clamber
> > -Slide
> > -Rediculous amount of bullet magnetism
>
> I would be ok with clamber,I hate the concept of hovering in halo

Clamber renders High ground (an essential component of map control) useless because anyone can just clamber up anywhere. Sure skill jumps used to be used to access high ground but they required a high amount of skill as opposed to clamber. Hovering is a lot less invasive

> 2533274888477235;8:
> > 2533274830166194;7:
> > > 2533274888477235;1:
> > > How would feel abut this compromise between advanced and classic movement in halo infinite?
> > >
> > > Proposed Formula:
> > > -Increase base movement speed and jump height
> > > -Replace ADS with classic zoom mechanic
> > > -Keep Thruster pack
> > > -Keep Hover
> > > -Drastically reduced bullet magnetism
> > > -have speed boosts and other pickups fill a similar role of power weapons
> > >
> > > Necessary Removals:
> > > -Sprint
> > > -ADS
> > > -Ground pound
> > > -Spartan charge
> > > -Clamber
> > > -Slide
> > > -Rediculous amount of bullet magnetism
> >
> > I would be ok with clamber,I hate the concept of hovering in halo
>
> Clamber renders High ground (an essential component of map control) useless because anyone can just clamber up anywhere. Sure skill jumps used to be used to access high ground but they required a high amount of skill as opposed to clamber. Hovering is a lot less invasive

Hovering makes no sense canonically.They use those thrusters while in zero g or during a huge fall,not just jumping 3 feet off the ground

> 2533274830166194;9:
> > 2533274888477235;8:
> > > 2533274830166194;7:
> > > > 2533274888477235;1:
> > > > How would feel abut this compromise between advanced and classic movement in halo infinite?
> > > >
> > > > Proposed Formula:
> > > > -Increase base movement speed and jump height
> > > > -Replace ADS with classic zoom mechanic
> > > > -Keep Thruster pack
> > > > -Keep Hover
> > > > -Drastically reduced bullet magnetism
> > > > -have speed boosts and other pickups fill a similar role of power weapons
> > > >
> > > > Necessary Removals:
> > > > -Sprint
> > > > -ADS
> > > > -Ground pound
> > > > -Spartan charge
> > > > -Clamber
> > > > -Slide
> > > > -Rediculous amount of bullet magnetism
> > >
> > > I would be ok with clamber,I hate the concept of hovering in halo
> >
> > Clamber renders High ground (an essential component of map control) useless because anyone can just clamber up anywhere. Sure skill jumps used to be used to access high ground but they required a high amount of skill as opposed to clamber. Hovering is a lot less invasive
>
> Hovering makes no sense canonically.They use those thrusters while in zero g or during a huge fall,not just jumping 3 feet off the ground

lore should never ever dictate gameplay. Keep in mind if I had it my way id get rid of every spartan ability and go full classic style gameplay. Im trying to piece together parts of both systems that satisfy both sides and I feel as if thruster pack; without the added effects of sprint slide and clamber isn’t very invasive and could provide a good addition to gameplay as it doesn’t put your gun down and lock you In an animation. Hover also doesn’t take your ability to shoot away from you, and doesn’t force you into an animation . Im well aware spartans can perform incredible superhuman feats in lore that aren’t reflected in gameplay. But in gameplay they shouldn’t. The style and formula of halo’s gameplay isn’t about showcasing how incredible a spartan’s physical capabilities are. Halo’s gameplay is all about skill, gunplay, map control, anticipation of enemies, and knowledge and use of the environment as a weapon to dominate your opponents. My issue with clamber in particular is the aspect of learning and being able too memorize and perform difficult skill jumps to get to power weapons spawns and vital areas of the map is thrown away. High ground and areas of halo 5’s maps necessary for map control as easily accessed by anyone. In addition it breaks the cardinal formula of halo: you can always shoot, use grenades and melee, all while being able to run and jump. Clamber takes away your ability to shoot melee and use grenades because it locks you in an animation.

An argument can be made that of all the spartan abilities the ones that don’t prevent you from shooting, using grenades, or using melee attacks are the only ones worth having an argument for them to stay. Keep in mind the reasons for removing abilities )especially sprint) have numerous reasons for why 343 should get rid of them but in terms of impacting the golden triangle here is what I mean.

For example:
Sprint - (Remove) can’t shoot, melee or grenade while in the sprint animation
Ground pound - (Remove) can’t shoot, melee, grenade, or traverse the map while in the animation
Spartan charge - (Remove) can’t shoot, grenade, or traverse the map while in the animation(except for the direction you charge in)
Thruster pack - (Keep) can be edited to allow for shooting, grenades, and melee while activating thruster pack
Hover - (Keep) You can shoot, grenade, and melee without being locked in an animation (but should be edited for the thrust to be cancelled when shot and de-scoped)
Slide - (I’m split) Im not a fan of it in Halo 5 BUT you can shoot grenade and melee while sliding, and if sprint is removed it may be used lack recklessly to avoid fights
ADS/Smartlink - (Remove) Makes automatics and close/mid range guns too powerful and in some cases(Br) its made to look like ADS to make it more familiar to non-halo players

> 2533274888477235;10:
> > 2533274830166194;9:
> > > 2533274888477235;8:
> > > > 2533274830166194;7:
> > > > > 2533274888477235;1:
> > > > > How would feel abut this compromise between advanced and classic movement in halo infinite?
> > > > >
> > > > > Proposed Formula:
> > > > > -Increase base movement speed and jump height
> > > > > -Replace ADS with classic zoom mechanic
> > > > > -Keep Thruster pack
> > > > > -Keep Hover
> > > > > -Drastically reduced bullet magnetism
> > > > > -have speed boosts and other pickups fill a similar role of power weapons
> > > > >
> > > > > Necessary Removals:
> > > > > -Sprint
> > > > > -ADS
> > > > > -Ground pound
> > > > > -Spartan charge
> > > > > -Clamber
> > > > > -Slide
> > > > > -Rediculous amount of bullet magnetism
> > > >
> > > > I would be ok with clamber,I hate the concept of hovering in halo
> > >
> > > Clamber renders High ground (an essential component of map control) useless because anyone can just clamber up anywhere. Sure skill jumps used to be used to access high ground but they required a high amount of skill as opposed to clamber. Hovering is a lot less invasive
> >
> > Hovering makes no sense canonically.They use those thrusters while in zero g or during a huge fall,not just jumping 3 feet off the ground
>
> lore should never ever dictate gameplay. Keep in mind if I had it my way id get rid of every spartan ability and go full classic style gameplay. Im trying to piece together parts of both systems that satisfy both sides and I feel as if thruster pack; without the added effects of sprint slide and clamber isn’t very invasive and could provide a good addition to gameplay as it doesn’t put your gun down and lock you In an animation. Hover also doesn’t take your ability to shoot away from you, and doesn’t force you into an animation . Im well aware spartans can perform incredible superhuman feats in lore that aren’t reflected in gameplay. But they shouldn’t. The style and formula of halo’s gameplay isn’t about showcasing how incredible a spartan’s physical capabilities are. Halo’s gameplay is all about skill, gunplay, map control, anticipation of enemies, and knowledge and use of the environment as a weapon to dominate your opponents. My issue with clamber in particular is the aspect of learning and being able too memorize and perform difficult skill jumps to get to power weapons spawns and vital areas of the map is thrown away. High ground and areas of halo 5’s maps necessary for map control as easily accessed by anyone. IN addition it breaks the cardinal formula of halo: you can always shoot, use grenades and meele, all while being able to run and jump. Clamber takes away your ability to shoot melee and use grenades because it locks you in an animation.

To me in this one case it should

> 2533274830166194;11:
> > 2533274888477235;10:
> > > 2533274830166194;9:
> > > > 2533274888477235;8:
> > > > > 2533274830166194;7:
> > > > > > 2533274888477235;1:
> > > > > > How would feel abut this compromise between advanced and classic movement in halo infinite?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Proposed Formula:
> > > > > > -Increase base movement speed and jump height
> > > > > > -Replace ADS with classic zoom mechanic
> > > > > > -Keep Thruster pack
> > > > > > -Keep Hover
> > > > > > -Drastically reduced bullet magnetism
> > > > > > -have speed boosts and other pickups fill a similar role of power weapons
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Necessary Removals:
> > > > > > -Sprint
> > > > > > -ADS
> > > > > > -Ground pound
> > > > > > -Spartan charge
> > > > > > -Clamber
> > > > > > -Slide
> > > > > > -Rediculous amount of bullet magnetism
> > > > >
> > > > > I would be ok with clamber,I hate the concept of hovering in halo
> > > >
> > > > Clamber renders High ground (an essential component of map control) useless because anyone can just clamber up anywhere. Sure skill jumps used to be used to access high ground but they required a high amount of skill as opposed to clamber. Hovering is a lot less invasive
> > >
> > > Hovering makes no sense canonically.They use those thrusters while in zero g or during a huge fall,not just jumping 3 feet off the ground
> >
> > lore should never ever dictate gameplay. Keep in mind if I had it my way id get rid of every spartan ability and go full classic style gameplay. Im trying to piece together parts of both systems that satisfy both sides and I feel as if thruster pack; without the added effects of sprint slide and clamber isn’t very invasive and could provide a good addition to gameplay as it doesn’t put your gun down and lock you In an animation. Hover also doesn’t take your ability to shoot away from you, and doesn’t force you into an animation . Im well aware spartans can perform incredible superhuman feats in lore that aren’t reflected in gameplay. But they shouldn’t. The style and formula of halo’s gameplay isn’t about showcasing how incredible a spartan’s physical capabilities are. Halo’s gameplay is all about skill, gunplay, map control, anticipation of enemies, and knowledge and use of the environment as a weapon to dominate your opponents. My issue with clamber in particular is the aspect of learning and being able too memorize and perform difficult skill jumps to get to power weapons spawns and vital areas of the map is thrown away. High ground and areas of halo 5’s maps necessary for map control as easily accessed by anyone. IN addition it breaks the cardinal formula of halo: you can always shoot, use grenades and meele, all while being able to run and jump. Clamber takes away your ability to shoot melee and use grenades because it locks you in an animation.
>
>
>
> > 2533274830166194;11:
> > > 2533274888477235;10:
> > > > 2533274830166194;9:
> > > > > 2533274888477235;8:
> > > > > > 2533274830166194;7:
> > > > > > > 2533274888477235;1:
> > > > > > > How would feel abut this compromise between advanced and classic movement in halo infinite?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Proposed Formula:
> > > > > > > -Increase base movement speed and jump height
> > > > > > > -Replace ADS with classic zoom mechanic
> > > > > > > -Keep Thruster pack
> > > > > > > -Keep Hover
> > > > > > > -Drastically reduced bullet magnetism
> > > > > > > -have speed boosts and other pickups fill a similar role of power weapons
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Necessary Removals:
> > > > > > > -Sprint
> > > > > > > -ADS
> > > > > > > -Ground pound
> > > > > > > -Spartan charge
> > > > > > > -Clamber
> > > > > > > -Slide
> > > > > > > -Rediculous amount of bullet magnetism
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I would be ok with clamber,I hate the concept of hovering in halo
> > > > >
> > > > > Clamber renders High ground (an essential component of map control) useless because anyone can just clamber up anywhere. Sure skill jumps used to be used to access high ground but they required a high amount of skill as opposed to clamber. Hovering is a lot less invasive
> > > >
> > > > Hovering makes no sense canonically.They use those thrusters while in zero g or during a huge fall,not just jumping 3 feet off the ground
> > >
> > > lore should never ever dictate gameplay. Keep in mind if I had it my way id get rid of every spartan ability and go full classic style gameplay. Im trying to piece together parts of both systems that satisfy both sides and I feel as if thruster pack; without the added effects of sprint slide and clamber isn’t very invasive and could provide a good addition to gameplay as it doesn’t put your gun down and lock you In an animation. Hover also doesn’t take your ability to shoot away from you, and doesn’t force you into an animation . Im well aware spartans can perform incredible superhuman feats in lore that aren’t reflected in gameplay. But they shouldn’t. The style and formula of halo’s gameplay isn’t about showcasing how incredible a spartan’s physical capabilities are. Halo’s gameplay is all about skill, gunplay, map control, anticipation of enemies, and knowledge and use of the environment as a weapon to dominate your opponents. My issue with clamber in particular is the aspect of learning and being able too memorize and perform difficult skill jumps to get to power weapons spawns and vital areas of the map is thrown away. High ground and areas of halo 5’s maps necessary for map control as easily accessed by anyone. IN addition it breaks the cardinal formula of halo: you can always shoot, use grenades and meele, all while being able to run and jump. Clamber takes away your ability to shoot melee and use grenades because it locks you in an animation.
> >
> > To me in this one case it should
>
> Not that I’m a huge fan of hover - because I am definitely not. If I could have it my way id have classic movement. But besides lore could you give me a reason for it being so dislikable to you? just trying to understand

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*Original post. Click at your own discretion.

As far as movement speed and jump height goes, that will all depend on the maps they want to go for. Verticality? How about Halo 5 style maps, but just downscaled for no clamber or sprinting?

There are about a million and a half different factors that go into all of this stuff, and it’s all gonna boil down to the primary elements of movement:

-Base movement speed
-clamber or no clamber
-sprint or no sprint

The problem with newer mechanics in Halo 5 is that designers had to work around the abilities each person had with the way they designed maps. In Halo 1-3, they could be way more creative with their maps because the movement and mechanics of each player never changed, therefore each map was given it’s own unique personality and theme.

to add more to your OP, could you give us examples of what kind of maps would work with your proposed formula?

with thrust enabled, man cannons and lifts will be affected, because then you can boost your way to safety if you use it, unlike in old Halo’s where if you enter a man cannon, you gotta commit to being vulnerable, such as maps like Guardian or Narrows.

with hover enabled, you gotta design around that feature too. Certain no man’s lands would be even more vulnerable because players can see more places for more amounts of time with the hover feature.

long story short, the classic mechanics and movement with no hover or thrust are just so much easier to work with than with them.

> 2535422626142909;13:
> As far as movement speed and jump height goes, that will all depend on the maps they want to go for. Verticality? How about Halo 5 style maps, but just downscaled for no clamber or sprinting?
>
> There are about a million and a half different factors that go into all of this stuff, and it’s all gonna boil down to the primary elements of movement:
>
> -Base movement speed
> -clamber or no clamber
> -sprint or no sprint
>
> The problem with newer mechanics in Halo 5 is that designers had to work around the abilities each person had with the way they designed maps. In Halo 1-3, they could be way more creative with their maps because the movement and mechanics of each player never changed, therefore each map was given it’s own unique personality and theme.
>
> to add more to your OP, could you give us examples of what kind of maps would work with your proposed formula?
>
> with thrust enabled, man cannons and lifts will be affected, because then you can boost your way to safety if you use it, unlike in old Halo’s where if you enter a man cannon, you gotta commit to being vulnerable, such as maps like Guardian or Narrows.
>
> with hover enabled, you gotta design around that feature too. Certain no man’s lands would be even more vulnerable because players can see more places for more amounts of time with the hover feature.
>
> long story short, the classic mechanics and movement with no hover or thrust are just so much easier to work with than with them.

Thanks for your well though out reply.

I agree sprinting and clambering had the most damaging effect on map design and gameplay without a doubt. That being said the verticality of the maps was also put into place due to being able to ground pound, and spartan charge and slide only further player into the stretching out of the maps caused by sprint. I think in most cases the verticality of the maps needs to be toned down a lot.

The reason I suggest adding a modified thruster pack:
-Without sprint and/or slide there is only so large of a distance that can be covered in a short amount of time by the thruster pack. whereas in halo 5 abilities could be chained together with thruster to traverse huge distances incredible fast and make ridiculously long jumps. So in that sense the power the thrusters would be hold would much less when they aren’t used in tandem with other abilites.
-In order to protect the risk/reward associated with man cannons, Id suggest not being able to use your thrusters either until you land or right before you land (Not perfect but anything preventing you from exiting the man canon which removes the risk/reward scenario)
-The thrust mechanic’s effect would already be greatly reduced by not including sprint but could also have it’s distance nerved from being a huge boost so a smaller one (almost comparable to a quick strafe)

The reason I suggest adding a modified hover ability:

  • Without the influences of sprint and the other abilities hover wouldn’t be able to assist is massive jumps that can be performed I halo 5 due to chaining abilities together.
  • In order to not make no man’s lands unfairly dangerous - decrease the amount of time a spartan is allowed to hover for.

I think in terms of what maps could be used with this design and I think with both hover and thruster pack modified to the extent I explained, bungie era maps could wrk very well with these abilities. The main offender that ruined halo’s map designs was sprint, ground pound, and clamber. If thruster pack and hover (while are already the least invasive of the abilities in my opinion) have their power nerved and allow you to shoot, melee, and grenade while performing the action, I can’t see any reason why a lot of the previous bungie era maps couldn’t work.

Probably best sticking to the existing thread on this. Feel free to add your comments there
https://www.halowaypoint.com/en-us/forums/29568daf8cd14083bd1b70a810bf3581/topics/the-return-of-classic-movement-mechanics/dbb9e311-d2f8-48b5-9826-259bffe75cac/posts