This is the argument most people hurl out the second they see someone compare H5’s ADS to COD, BF, etc. But what they don’t seem to realize is that what they are defending does absolutely nothing to improve or add to Halo. At all. Please note that when I refer to “ADS”, I am referring to the animation, not the mechanic. I am already aware that it functions identically to scoping. With that in mind…
There are three main things ADS does for H5. Pick your poison:
-
Change for the sake of change.
-
Attracts players from other fps franchises that use a similar (but not the same) ADS animation.
-
Allows full auto users to shoot while scoped in.
#1 is never a good thing for Halo, as evidenced by Halo 4. Even if the change is only aesthetical, 343 still put time and effort into creating that animation to replace Halo’s iconic scoping animation. And because there is no difference between the two animations, that time was wasted and ADS only received criticism and hate when it was revealed. By just sticking with scoping, 343 could have saved a lot of trouble from people who freaked when they saw ADS, which was bound to happen and they probably knew it too. That old saying that was used a countless number of times during Halo 4’s release comes to mind: “Don’t fix what isn’t broken”.
#2 is a terrible excuse for ADS to be implemented. I’ve said this before, but Halo shouldn’t be adapting to those player’s preferences, those players should be adapting to Halo. Halo needs to be made for Halo fans, not fans of other franchises. Don’t let Halo pretend to be something it’s not just to get the attention of players from other franchises. That just causes the gaming market to become flooded with a bunch of generic shooters with similar mechanics.
#3 just doesn’t even make sense. Why do weapons meant to be used in close range need scopes? There is no point. It will give full auto users false hope that they can directly engage a BR user at mid range and somehow come out on top. But unless ADS on full autos actually makes them useful at mid range, it’s never going to happen. That being said, if they are useful at mid range thanks to ADS, then they are infringing on the BR and Carbine(?) territory. BR’s are going to find themselves constantly descoped by full autos, when the full autos aren’t even supposed to be reaching out that far. Halo 4’s AR is a perfect example of how a full auto should function. Shreds players apart at close range, drops off in effectiveness at mid range. What’s sad is that 343 built one of the best iterations of the AR with their own hands, and now they’re choosing to ignore it in favor of this new fascination they seem to have with ADS.
TL;DR: No pun intended, but ADS literally adds nothing new.
> 2533274961508741;1:
> 2. Attracts players from other fps franchises that use a similar (but not the same) ADS animation.
You do realize that by appealing to said “other fps franchises” that 343i will increase their sales? Considering that it doesn’t change the gameplay how would it not be beneficial to the game if more people buy it thinking that it’s going to work like those other games?
Pros:
- Increased player population
- Increased day-one sales
Cons:
I would argue that the reason is a mix of #1 and #2, mostly #2.
We saw similar “change for the sake of change” in Halo 4 when they switched the 50 kills to win system to a 6000 points to win system to make the game resemble other console shooters like CoD.
Also, I’m assuming Microsoft has been all over 343 about making their games similar to CoD to either draw in CoD players or to get new Halo players into CoD. It has to be a business thing because I have never seen a single Halo player in any forum say that sprint is good for Halo, and yet, here it is again.
I don’t even get why people have such a huge problem with ADS now that 343 Industries have explained what it is. Admittedly, I was freaked out when I saw the leaked footage, because I thought it was just another attempt to modernize Halo by aping CoD and Battlefield. But the ADS seen here is just aesthetic; it’s virtually the same as zoom except it now provides an animation. There’s no penalty for using it, you can get descoped and aiming from the hip will be the primary means of firing most non-scoped weapons.
There’s literally so many things that could have been worse about that trailer, but people decide to attack ADS just because it’s new and hasn’t been in previous game, despite the fact that it will hardly affect anything. It’s just an attempt to appeal to a wider variety of modern gamers and make Halo more interesting to visualize. Honestly, this is the least of my worries. I’m more concerned about how Spartan abilities and Sprint will handle in the game.
It does add something new. And thats a change on the visual side of things. Thats like saying Halo 2A didn’t bring anything new to the table. Should we not strive for better graphics or god forbid a change in how something looks? Its like you guys have a severe case of cainotophobia. And if it GOD FORBID attracts new players to the franchise, then what harm has been done?
I swear the majority of the “criticizing” posts are from you elitist cainotophobics who are wise in your own eyes and believe that you know exactly what it takes to make a great halo game. And the sad part of all of this is that you haven’t even played it yet and are already condemning certain choices that have been made.
I would think you would be more concerned about THE BIG THINGS that matter. Such as equal starts, no ordnance, advancements in how people move throughout the map, the fact that we are even getting a new halo game on next gen systems. But no…you seem to be adamant to fixate your focus on what something looks like and believe it shouldn’t look like that because you feel its “inferior” compared to its predecessor and that it reminds you of games and the community that associates with such games, in which you also think them inferior.
Well too bad. It’s in now, and if there was no point in adding it, there is no point in removing it either…
> 2533274875705074;2:
> > 2533274961508741;1:
> > 2. Attracts players from other fps franchises that use a similar (but not the same) ADS animation.
>
>
> You do realize that by appealing to said “other fps franchises” that 343i will increase their sales? Considering that it doesn’t change the gameplay how would it not be beneficial to the game if more people buy it thinking that it’s going to work like those other games?
>
> Pros:
> - Increased player population
> - Increased day-one sales
>
> Cons:
> - Looks different
> - ???
Halo 3 was able to compete with COD 4 despite not having ADS, and there were plenty of other games out there with ADS at the time. You also don’t seem to realize that players that come from these other shooters are going to think that they can just hold down on the zoom button and expect to stay in ADS for as long as they want. They will be very disappointed when they realize that that’s not the case. So even with the new animation, players from other franchises are still going to have to adapt to Halo’s gameplay regardless. These players were already given the “fishstick” layout in Halo 4, and I’m assuming it’s returning to Halo 5. Is that not enough? How much does Halo have to cater to their preferences before our own preferences are pushed aside and become nonexistent?
> 2533274953123640;6:
> Well too bad. It’s in now, and if there was no point in adding it, there is no point in removing it either…
Good. Then there will be no point in bringing it back for Halo 6.
You need only look at point 2 to answer your own questions.
This is the best of both worlds and is likely the best decision for the future of Halo.
> 2533274828579555;5:
> It does add something new. And thats a change on the visual side of things. Thats like saying Halo 2A didn’t bring anything new to the table. Should we not strive for better graphics or god forbid a change in how something looks? Its like you guys have a severe case of cainotophobia. And if it GOD FORBID attracts new players to the franchise, then what harm has been done?
>
> I swear the majority of the “criticizing” posts are from you elitist cainotophobics who are wise in your own eyes and believe that you know exactly what it takes to make a great halo game. And the sad part of all of this is that you haven’t even played it yet and are already condemning certain choices that have been made.
>
> I would think you would be more concerned about THE BIG THINGS that matter. Such as equal starts, no ordnance, advancements in how people move throughout the map, the fact that we are even getting a new halo game on next gen systems. But no…you seem to be adamant to fixate your focus on what something looks like and believe it shouldn’t look like that because you feel its “inferior” compared to its predecessor and that it reminds you of games and the community that associates with such games, in which you also think them inferior.
Visuals are going to change between games regardless. Look at all the new maps, the redesigned armor and weapons, and the remastered midship. No two Halo games were visually similar to the other (with the exception of H3 and ODST, but even then at least the HUD system and environments were still different).
ADS doesn’t make any sense ‘In-universe’, because it was stated that weapons like the dmr and br are synchronized with the display of the mjolnir armor. That’s why I don’t want any ADS in Halo.
> 2533274961508741;10:
> > 2533274828579555;5:
> > It does add something new. And thats a change on the visual side of things. Thats like saying Halo 2A didn’t bring anything new to the table. Should we not strive for better graphics or god forbid a change in how something looks? Its like you guys have a severe case of cainotophobia. And if it GOD FORBID attracts new players to the franchise, then what harm has been done?
> >
> > I swear the majority of the “criticizing” posts are from you elitist cainotophobics who are wise in your own eyes and believe that you know exactly what it takes to make a great halo game. And the sad part of all of this is that you haven’t even played it yet and are already condemning certain choices that have been made.
> >
> > I would think you would be more concerned about THE BIG THINGS that matter. Such as equal starts, no ordnance, advancements in how people move throughout the map, the fact that we are even getting a new halo game on next gen systems. But no…you seem to be adamant to fixate your focus on what something looks like and believe it shouldn’t look like that because you feel its “inferior” compared to its predecessor and that it reminds you of games and the community that associates with such games, in which you also think them inferior.
>
>
> Visuals are going to change between games regardless. Look at all the new maps, the redesigned armor, and the remastered midship. No two Halo games were visually similar to the other (with the exception of H3 and ODST, but even then at least the HUD system and environments were still different).
With your understanding of this, why are you complaining?
> 2533274961508741;7:
> Halo 3 was able to compete with COD 4 despite not having ADS, and there were plenty of other games out there with ADS at the time. You also don’t seem to realize that players that come from these other shooters are going to think that they can just hold down on the zoom button and expect to stay in ADS for as long as they want. They will be very disappointed when they realize that that’s not the case. So even with the new animation, players from other franchises are still going to have to adapt to Halo’s gameplay regardless. These players were already given the “fishstick” layout in Halo 4, and I’m assuming it’s returning to Halo 5. Is that not enough? How much does Halo have to cater to their preferences before our own preferences are pushed aside and become nonexistent?
Yes, I do realize that. That’s the point. So they’ll buy it, figure out it’s not ADS, and be forced to adapt. Veterans will still dominate. You act like it’s impossible for everyone to benefit.
Veterans - nothing will change.
343i - increased sales.
New players who think it’s actual ADS - forced to adapt.
> 2533274828579555;12:
> > 2533274961508741;10:
> > > 2533274828579555;5:
> > > It does add something new. And thats a change on the visual side of things. Thats like saying Halo 2A didn’t bring anything new to the table. Should we not strive for better graphics or god forbid a change in how something looks? Its like you guys have a severe case of cainotophobia. And if it GOD FORBID attracts new players to the franchise, then what harm has been done?
> > >
> > > I swear the majority of the “criticizing” posts are from you elitist cainotophobics who are wise in your own eyes and believe that you know exactly what it takes to make a great halo game. And the sad part of all of this is that you haven’t even played it yet and are already condemning certain choices that have been made.
> > >
> > > I would think you would be more concerned about THE BIG THINGS that matter. Such as equal starts, no ordnance, advancements in how people move throughout the map, the fact that we are even getting a new halo game on next gen systems. But no…you seem to be adamant to fixate your focus on what something looks like and believe it shouldn’t look like that because you feel its “inferior” compared to its predecessor and that it reminds you of games and the community that associates with such games, in which you also think them inferior.
> >
> >
> >
> > Visuals are going to change between games regardless. Look at all the new maps, the redesigned armor, and the remastered midship. No two Halo games were visually similar to the other (with the exception of H3 and ODST, but even then at least the HUD system and environments were still different).
>
>
> With your understanding of this, why are you complaining?
Because the purpose of changing scope to ADS is not for visual reasons.
> 2533274961508741;14:
> > 2533274828579555;12:
> > > 2533274961508741;10:
> > > > 2533274828579555;5:
> > > > It does add something new. And thats a change on the visual side of things. Thats like saying Halo 2A didn’t bring anything new to the table. Should we not strive for better graphics or god forbid a change in how something looks? Its like you guys have a severe case of cainotophobia. And if it GOD FORBID attracts new players to the franchise, then what harm has been done?
> > > >
> > > > I swear the majority of the “criticizing” posts are from you elitist cainotophobics who are wise in your own eyes and believe that you know exactly what it takes to make a great halo game. And the sad part of all of this is that you haven’t even played it yet and are already condemning certain choices that have been made.
> > > >
> > > > I would think you would be more concerned about THE BIG THINGS that matter. Such as equal starts, no ordnance, advancements in how people move throughout the map, the fact that we are even getting a new halo game on next gen systems. But no…you seem to be adamant to fixate your focus on what something looks like and believe it shouldn’t look like that because you feel its “inferior” compared to its predecessor and that it reminds you of games and the community that associates with such games, in which you also think them inferior.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Visuals are going to change between games regardless. Look at all the new maps, the redesigned armor, and the remastered midship. No two Halo games were visually similar to the other (with the exception of H3 and ODST, but even then at least the HUD system and environments were still different).
> >
> >
> >
> > With your understanding of this, why are you complaining?
>
>
> Because the purpose of changing scope to ADS is not for visual reasons.
And where did you find such evidence that supports this?
> 2533274875705074;13:
> > 2533274961508741;7:
> > Halo 3 was able to compete with COD 4 despite not having ADS, and there were plenty of other games out there with ADS at the time. You also don’t seem to realize that players that come from these other shooters are going to think that they can just hold down on the zoom button and expect to stay in ADS for as long as they want. They will be very disappointed when they realize that that’s not the case. So even with the new animation, players from other franchises are still going to have to adapt to Halo’s gameplay regardless. These players were already given the “fishstick” layout in Halo 4, and I’m assuming it’s returning to Halo 5. Is that not enough? How much does Halo have to cater to their preferences before our own preferences are pushed aside and become nonexistent?
>
>
> Yes, I do realize that. That’s the point. So they’ll buy it, figure out it’s not ADS, and be forced to adapt. Veterans will still dominate. You act like it’s impossible for everyone to benefit.
>
> Veterans - nothing will change.
> 343i - increased sales.
> New players who think it’s actual ADS - forced to adapt.
Or they’ll leave. Pretty counter productive seeing that ADS is supposed to bring players in, wouldn’t you say? If they want ADS, and find out that Halo doesn’t have real ADS, they aren’t going to stay around long.
> 2533274961508741;16:
> > 2533274875705074;13:
> > > 2533274961508741;7:
> > > Halo 3 was able to compete with COD 4 despite not having ADS, and there were plenty of other games out there with ADS at the time. You also don’t seem to realize that players that come from these other shooters are going to think that they can just hold down on the zoom button and expect to stay in ADS for as long as they want. They will be very disappointed when they realize that that’s not the case. So even with the new animation, players from other franchises are still going to have to adapt to Halo’s gameplay regardless. These players were already given the “fishstick” layout in Halo 4, and I’m assuming it’s returning to Halo 5. Is that not enough? How much does Halo have to cater to their preferences before our own preferences are pushed aside and become nonexistent?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Yes, I do realize that. That’s the point. So they’ll buy it, figure out it’s not ADS, and be forced to adapt. Veterans will still dominate. You act like it’s impossible for everyone to benefit.
> >
> > Veterans - nothing will change.
> > 343i - increased sales.
> > New players who think it’s actual ADS - forced to adapt.
>
>
>
>
> Or they’ll leave. Pretty counter productive seeing that ADS is supposed to bring players in, wouldn’t you say? If they want ADS, and find out that Halo doesn’t have real ADS, they aren’t going to stay around long.
Why why would they leave? They wouldn’t show up if they didn’t know what they were getting into. The smart scope is not to trick Cod/Battlefield players into buying Halo, it’s simply to help accommodate them and interest them in the franchise. It will be foreign and different sure, but not as bad as before. This is beneficial to the most people possible.
> 2533274828579555;15:
> > 2533274961508741;14:
> > > 2533274828579555;12:
> > > > 2533274961508741;10:
> > > > > 2533274828579555;5:
> > > > > It does add something new. And thats a change on the visual side of things. Thats like saying Halo 2A didn’t bring anything new to the table. Should we not strive for better graphics or god forbid a change in how something looks? Its like you guys have a severe case of cainotophobia. And if it GOD FORBID attracts new players to the franchise, then what harm has been done?
> > > > >
> > > > > I swear the majority of the “criticizing” posts are from you elitist cainotophobics who are wise in your own eyes and believe that you know exactly what it takes to make a great halo game. And the sad part of all of this is that you haven’t even played it yet and are already condemning certain choices that have been made.
> > > > >
> > > > > I would think you would be more concerned about THE BIG THINGS that matter. Such as equal starts, no ordnance, advancements in how people move throughout the map, the fact that we are even getting a new halo game on next gen systems. But no…you seem to be adamant to fixate your focus on what something looks like and believe it shouldn’t look like that because you feel its “inferior” compared to its predecessor and that it reminds you of games and the community that associates with such games, in which you also think them inferior.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Visuals are going to change between games regardless. Look at all the new maps, the redesigned armor, and the remastered midship. No two Halo games were visually similar to the other (with the exception of H3 and ODST, but even then at least the HUD system and environments were still different).
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > With your understanding of this, why are you complaining?
> >
> >
> >
> > Because the purpose of changing scope to ADS is not for visual reasons.
>
>
> And where did you find such evidence that supports this?
From the same people that are saying that the purpose of ADS is to attract players from other franchises. There’s a few of them here in this thread, ask one of them.
> 2533274961508741;16:
> > 2533274875705074;13:
> > > 2533274961508741;7:
> > > Halo 3 was able to compete with COD 4 despite not having ADS, and there were plenty of other games out there with ADS at the time. You also don’t seem to realize that players that come from these other shooters are going to think that they can just hold down on the zoom button and expect to stay in ADS for as long as they want. They will be very disappointed when they realize that that’s not the case. So even with the new animation, players from other franchises are still going to have to adapt to Halo’s gameplay regardless. These players were already given the “fishstick” layout in Halo 4, and I’m assuming it’s returning to Halo 5. Is that not enough? How much does Halo have to cater to their preferences before our own preferences are pushed aside and become nonexistent?
> >
> >
> >
> > Yes, I do realize that. That’s the point. So they’ll buy it, figure out it’s not ADS, and be forced to adapt. Veterans will still dominate. You act like it’s impossible for everyone to benefit.
> >
> > Veterans - nothing will change.
> > 343i - increased sales.
> > New players who think it’s actual ADS - forced to adapt.
>
>
> Or they’ll leave. Pretty counter productive seeing that ADS is supposed to bring players in, wouldn’t you say? If they want ADS, and find out that Halo doesn’t have real ADS, they aren’t going to stay around long.
And? 343i got sales that they otherwise wouldn’t have. You seem to be under the mistaken impression that player population past a certain point matters. People on Xbox Live aren’t throwing money at 343i - they did that when they bought the game for the first time for $50, $60, etc. After that they’re not expected to generate any more revenue except through DLC, but barely anyone ever buys DLC anyways.
> 2533274875705074;19:
> > 2533274961508741;16:
> > > 2533274875705074;13:
> > > > 2533274961508741;7:
> > > > Halo 3 was able to compete with COD 4 despite not having ADS, and there were plenty of other games out there with ADS at the time. You also don’t seem to realize that players that come from these other shooters are going to think that they can just hold down on the zoom button and expect to stay in ADS for as long as they want. They will be very disappointed when they realize that that’s not the case. So even with the new animation, players from other franchises are still going to have to adapt to Halo’s gameplay regardless. These players were already given the “fishstick” layout in Halo 4, and I’m assuming it’s returning to Halo 5. Is that not enough? How much does Halo have to cater to their preferences before our own preferences are pushed aside and become nonexistent?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Yes, I do realize that. That’s the point. So they’ll buy it, figure out it’s not ADS, and be forced to adapt. Veterans will still dominate. You act like it’s impossible for everyone to benefit.
> > >
> > > Veterans - nothing will change.
> > > 343i - increased sales.
> > > New players who think it’s actual ADS - forced to adapt.
> >
> >
> >
> > Or they’ll leave. Pretty counter productive seeing that ADS is supposed to bring players in, wouldn’t you say? If they want ADS, and find out that Halo doesn’t have real ADS, they aren’t going to stay around long.
>
>
> And? 343i got sales that they otherwise wouldn’t have. You seem to be under the mistaken impression that player population past a certain point matters. People on Xbox Live aren’t throwing money at 343i - they did that when they bought the game for the first time for $50, $60, etc. After that they’re not expected to generate any more revenue except through DLC, but barely anyone ever buys DLC anyways.
All of your points exactly!
I was going to throw in the point about the sales and stuff to be decided against it, but I’m glad I’m not the only one here that understands how this all works.
Keep being the voice of reason 