active camo and how to balance it.

As the way i did my PV thread i will explain active camo its strengths weaknesses and why its disliked. then i will wrap it up with a fair way to balance it.

active camo. allowing a player to be invisible upon pressing a button.

strengths. while still or crouch walking a player can maintain complete invisiblility allowing the user to get the drop on a player or moving to an advantage point to scout out the enemy.

weaknesses. any movement outside crouching will make the player visible. depending on how you move is how fast it will drain. slow recharge rate. and a radar jam and sound deafining.

Its problem. People dislike camo in reach because it encourages camping in corners and slower gameplay.

My take. I believe the reason why people camp with it is not simply because we start with it. but rather it has too many setbacks and is much harder to use then any other AA. so players would rather resort to sitting and hoping for a kill then using it tactically.

balancing active camo. Keep in mind this is only my opinion. from playing several hours with AC and having much expierence with halo over all this is what ive come to.

restore camos effect to “good camo” from halo 3. Meaning if you run jump sprint crouch or anything while in AC you are still totally invisible. Keep the draining. it will be much like reaches where your movement determines how fast you use your camo. keep the sound deafining. I say this because camping with AC in reach worked so well because they could tell when someone was coming. if your awareness was cut down you would have to keep your wits about you. remove the whole radar. same reason as i just stated. and lastly give it a slow recharge.

this way camo turns into more of a tactical AA instead of a camping device. Thoughts?

  1. Remove it from a loadout option.
  2. Place it on the maps as a powerup.
  3. Never think of allowing players to spawn with it ever again.

Put it back on the map.

So how does this stop people from just sitting back with a Sniper and camo sniping like in Reach?

Camo should be a pickup and last as long as it did in Halo 3 with the exact same traits as Halo 3, Reach’s camo was poor, people didn’t sit back because it is hard to use, sitting at the back of the map and crouching with a DMR or Sniper is not hard to do, it has no use in the battlefield at all, and giving people an infinite good camo ability is a stupid idea, slow recharge or not, it is still imbalanced.

> 1) Remove it from a loadout option.
> 2) Place it on the maps as a powerup.
> 3) Never think of allowing players to spawn with it ever again.

This, this and this. :smiley:

> So how does this stop people from just sitting back with a Sniper and camo sniping like in Reach?
>
> Camo should be a pickup and last as long as it did in Halo 3 with the exact same traits as Halo 3, Reach’s camo was poor, people didn’t sit back because it is hard to use, sitting at the back of the map and crouching with a DMR or Sniper is not hard to do, it has no use in the battlefield at all, and giving people an infinite good camo ability is a stupid idea, slow recharge or not, it is still imbalanced.

there was nothing wrong with camo sniping. people did it in halo 3 all the time. the only difference is its on the map. judging from your “team camo” match you clearly arn’t great with camo. if it isn’t that hard to use then why did you and your team fail with it?

my point still stands why on earth would you run around with AC if it was poor camo unless you moved slow or sat still? sitting still and waiting for a kill was much easier then trying to use it in a tactical fashion. wich is why people camped with it. denying this fact just makes you look wrong.

> 1) Remove it from a loadout option.
> 2) Place it on the maps as a powerup.
> 3) Never think of allowing players to spawn with it ever again.

Doesn’t matter if there is 5 months left till release its been confirmed as an AA so its staying an AA. instead of hopping on the hate band wagon how about you post some constructive way to balance it.

> > 1) Remove it from a loadout option.
> > 2) Place it on the maps as a powerup.
> > 3) Never think of allowing players to spawn with it ever again.
>
> Doesn’t matter if there is 5 months left till release its been confirmed as an AA so its staying an AA. instead of hopping on the hate band wagon how about you post some constructive way to balance it.

There is no way to balance it if it is in a loadout. Camo is an ability that can change the entire course of a game. Now, instead of fighting for it on the map, players can spawn with it. You should never be given an ability that powerful off spawn. You would never give anyone the ability to use a Rocket Launcher as a loadout, so why would you give them Camo?

> > So how does this stop people from just sitting back with a Sniper and camo sniping like in Reach?
> >
> > Camo should be a pickup and last as long as it did in Halo 3 with the exact same traits as Halo 3, Reach’s camo was poor, people didn’t sit back because it is hard to use, sitting at the back of the map and crouching with a DMR or Sniper is not hard to do, it has no use in the battlefield at all, and giving people an infinite good camo ability is a stupid idea, slow recharge or not, it is still imbalanced.
>
> there was nothing wrong with camo sniping. people did it in halo 3 all the time. the only difference is its on the map. judging from your “team camo” match you clearly arn’t great with camo. if it isn’t that hard to use then why did you and your team fail with it?
>
> my point still stands why on earth would you run around with AC if it was poor camo unless you moved slow or sat still? sitting still and waiting for a kill was much easier then trying to use it in a tactical fashion. wich is why people camped with it. denying this fact just makes you look wrong.

People were limited doing it in Halo 3, with the lack of Camo pickups on every map on Halo 3 means they actually had to find a map with Camo & a Sniper and then pick up both, and proceed to move to their camping spot, by which the Camo timer had already ran out and they were visible.

That video I linked you to isn’t me playing, why you think that is hilarious, I wouldn’t dream of using the Camo AA ever, it is a joke and is completely overpowered once a whole team is using it.

The problem with your balancing reasons is that the player has an infinite supply of Camo, meaning they can just do exactly what they did in Halo: Reach and that is pick up the Sniper, sit at the back of the map, Camo snipe and then pick up the fresh Ammo and rinse and repeat and not get punished, this is a massive joke on maps on Hemorrhage or other BTB maps, it results in a lot of players quitting because they have on idea where the Camo sniper is shooting from and makes the game have less players, meaning less players to kill and slower gameplay and once again, makes the game end by time limit.

Changing it to make everyone have good camo at the press of a button is just going to encourage full teams to use it and be able to run in completely undetected constantly, it will once again, force players to quit because they have no way of combating the Camo users due to the lack of aim assist when someone is in Camo.

You do not understand at all how to balance Camo at all, the fact you want to keep it as an Armour Ability shows this mainly.

> > 1) Remove it from a loadout option.
> > 2) Place it on the maps as a powerup.
> > 3) Never think of allowing players to spawn with it ever again.
>
> Doesn’t matter if there is 5 months left till release its been confirmed as an AA so its staying an AA. instead of hopping on the hate band wagon how about you post some constructive way to balance it.

> There is no way to balance it if it is in a loadout.

> > > 1) Remove it from a loadout option.
> > > 2) Place it on the maps as a powerup.
> > > 3) Never think of allowing players to spawn with it ever again.
> >
> > Doesn’t matter if there is 5 months left till release its been confirmed as an AA so its staying an AA. instead of hopping on the hate band wagon how about you post some constructive way to balance it.
>
> There is no way to balance it if it is in a loadout. Camo is an ability that can change the entire course of a game. Now, instead of fighting for it on the map, players can spawn with it. You should never be given an ability that powerful off spawn. You would never give anyone the ability to use a Rocket Launcher as a loadout, so why would you give them Camo?

um. there is a way to balance it. i do not see how what i listed above doesn’t balance it. they trade of being able to be seen with only being aware of whats infront of them. it would create less campers with camo.

you arn’t given a rocket off spawn because it directly kills someone. camo does not.

So, you’re going to do nothing but make it the same? Well, aren’t you smart. That sounds a bit like Ghost Recon: Future Soldiers cloak, where if you remain crouched, you will not be spotted, but if you run or shoot, it leaves for a few seconds.

Don’t get me wrong, I love GR:FS, but you’re wanting 343i to clone it straight from GR:FS.

> 1) Remove it from a loadout option.
> 2) Place it on the maps as a powerup.
> 3) Never think of allowing players to spawn with it ever again.

Lol this guy is suffering from nostalgia and can’t get a grip, it is the only rational reason to why he hates armor abilities and so many other people can’t live without them.

Also, OP has got the idea right.

> > > So how does this stop people from just sitting back with a Sniper and camo sniping like in Reach?
> > >
> > > Camo should be a pickup and last as long as it did in Halo 3 with the exact same traits as Halo 3, Reach’s camo was poor, people didn’t sit back because it is hard to use, sitting at the back of the map and crouching with a DMR or Sniper is not hard to do, it has no use in the battlefield at all, and giving people an infinite good camo ability is a stupid idea, slow recharge or not, it is still imbalanced.
> >
> > there was nothing wrong with camo sniping. people did it in halo 3 all the time. the only difference is its on the map. judging from your “team camo” match you clearly arn’t great with camo. if it isn’t that hard to use then why did you and your team fail with it?
> >
> > my point still stands why on earth would you run around with AC if it was poor camo unless you moved slow or sat still? sitting still and waiting for a kill was much easier then trying to use it in a tactical fashion. wich is why people camped with it. denying this fact just makes you look wrong.
>
> People were limited doing it in Halo 3, with the lack of Camo pickups on every map on Halo 3 means they actually had to find a map with Camo & a Sniper and then pick up both, and proceed to move to their camping spot, by which the Camo timer had already ran out and they were visible.
>
> That video I linked you to isn’t me playing, why you think that is hilarious, I wouldn’t dream of using the Camo AA ever, it is a joke and is completely overpowered once a whole team is using it.
>
> The problem with your balancing reasons is that the player has an infinite supply of Camo, meaning they can just do exactly what they did in Halo: Reach and that is pick up the Sniper, sit at the back of the map, Camo snipe and then pick up the fresh Ammo and rinse and repeat and not get punished, this is a massive joke on maps on Hemorrhage or other BTB maps, it results in a lot of players quitting because they have on idea where the Camo sniper is shooting from and makes the game have less players, meaning less players to kill and slower gameplay and once again, makes the game end by time limit.
>
> Changing it to make everyone have good camo at the press of a button is just going to encourage full teams to use it and be able to run in completely undetected constantly, it will once again, force players to quit because they have no way of combating the Camo users due to the lack of aim assist when someone is in Camo.
>
> You do not understand at all how to balance Camo at all, the fact you want to keep it as an Armour Ability shows this mainly.

you linked the video. so i only assumed it was you. regardless of weather or not it was you it was a poor example of showing how camo can Be OP. i always grabbed the sniper and camo on sandtrap. and it worked all the time. it doesn’t even matter on a BTB map. if there in the back of the map you can’t even see them anyway. if camo sniping was such a BIG problem how come i hardly ever saw it happening? ive never heard of anyone complaining about it outside forums. and even then it wasn’t heard of very often.

it sounds like its more of a personnel problem. my way of balancing punishes them enough. It doesn’t matter if i want camo to stay or not it is staying. it makes much more sense to me if you try to come up with a way to fix it as is instead of crying to remove it. thats all the community does. If theres a thing people don’t like they want it removed. that is not how you fix anything.

> > > > 1) Remove it from a loadout option.
> > > > 2) Place it on the maps as a powerup.
> > > > 3) Never think of allowing players to spawn with it ever again.
> > >
> > > Doesn’t matter if there is 5 months left till release its been confirmed as an AA so its staying an AA. instead of hopping on the hate band wagon how about you post some constructive way to balance it.
> >
> > There is no way to balance it if it is in a loadout. Camo is an ability that can change the entire course of a game. Now, instead of fighting for it on the map, players can spawn with it. You should never be given an ability that powerful off spawn. You would never give anyone the ability to use a Rocket Launcher as a loadout, so why would you give them Camo?
>
> um. there is a way to balance it. i do not see how what i listed above doesn’t balance it. they trade of being able to be seen with only being aware of whats infront of them. it would create less campers with camo.
>
> you arn’t given a rocket off spawn because it directly kills someone. camo does not.

The issue isn’t people camping, I couldn’t care less about people camping. It’s their loss for camping, it is not an effective strategy as you start to play better players. The issue is being given something that powerful off spawn. As I said earlier, Camo can change the course of a game entirely. That’s why on MLG Construct (gasp! I mentioned MLG), there would be standoffs until the Camo popped up. It gives a team the ability to break a nearly flawless set-up and take back map control. The fact that you can now spawn with it and reuse it whenever it recharges is utterly ridiculous.

> So, you’re going to do nothing but make it the same? Well, aren’t you smart. That sounds a bit like Ghost Recon: Future Soldiers cloak, where if you remain crouched, you will not be spotted, but if you run or shoot, it leaves for a few seconds.
>
> Don’t get me wrong, I love GR:FS, but you’re wanting 343i to clone it straight from GR:FS.

aparently you didn’t read. you stay completley invisible no matter your movement. re read what i posted please.

> > 1) Remove it from a loadout option.
> > 2) Place it on the maps as a powerup.
> > 3) Never think of allowing players to spawn with it ever again.
>
> Lol this guy is suffering from nostalgia and can’t get a grip, it is the only rational reason to why he hates armor abilities and so many other people can’t live without them.
>
>
> Also, OP has got the idea right.

lol I’m suffering from being able to tell what is bad for gameplay and what is not.

I never said I hated armor abilities ever. Could you stop putting words in my mouth? Thanks. You’re a doll.

> > So, you’re going to do nothing but make it the same? Well, aren’t you smart. That sounds a bit like Ghost Recon: Future Soldiers cloak, where if you remain crouched, you will not be spotted, but if you run or shoot, it leaves for a few seconds.
> >
> > Don’t get me wrong, I love GR:FS, but you’re wanting 343i to clone it straight from GR:FS.
>
> aparently you didn’t read. you stay completley invisible no matter your movement. re read what i posted please.

I didn’t see that part, but reading at a fast pace will do that.

> > > > So how does this stop people from just sitting back with a Sniper and camo sniping like in Reach?
> > > >
> > > > Camo should be a pickup and last as long as it did in Halo 3 with the exact same traits as Halo 3, Reach’s camo was poor, people didn’t sit back because it is hard to use, sitting at the back of the map and crouching with a DMR or Sniper is not hard to do, it has no use in the battlefield at all, and giving people an infinite good camo ability is a stupid idea, slow recharge or not, it is still imbalanced.
> > >
> > > there was nothing wrong with camo sniping. people did it in halo 3 all the time. the only difference is its on the map. judging from your “team camo” match you clearly arn’t great with camo. if it isn’t that hard to use then why did you and your team fail with it?
> > >
> > > my point still stands why on earth would you run around with AC if it was poor camo unless you moved slow or sat still? sitting still and waiting for a kill was much easier then trying to use it in a tactical fashion. wich is why people camped with it. denying this fact just makes you look wrong.
> >
> > People were limited doing it in Halo 3, with the lack of Camo pickups on every map on Halo 3 means they actually had to find a map with Camo & a Sniper and then pick up both, and proceed to move to their camping spot, by which the Camo timer had already ran out and they were visible.
> >
> > That video I linked you to isn’t me playing, why you think that is hilarious, I wouldn’t dream of using the Camo AA ever, it is a joke and is completely overpowered once a whole team is using it.
> >
> > The problem with your balancing reasons is that the player has an infinite supply of Camo, meaning they can just do exactly what they did in Halo: Reach and that is pick up the Sniper, sit at the back of the map, Camo snipe and then pick up the fresh Ammo and rinse and repeat and not get punished, this is a massive joke on maps on Hemorrhage or other BTB maps, it results in a lot of players quitting because they have on idea where the Camo sniper is shooting from and makes the game have less players, meaning less players to kill and slower gameplay and once again, makes the game end by time limit.
> >
> > Changing it to make everyone have good camo at the press of a button is just going to encourage full teams to use it and be able to run in completely undetected constantly, it will once again, force players to quit because they have no way of combating the Camo users due to the lack of aim assist when someone is in Camo.
> >
> > You do not understand at all how to balance Camo at all, the fact you want to keep it as an Armour Ability shows this mainly.
>
> you linked the video. so i only assumed it was you. regardless of weather or not it was you it was a poor example of showing how camo can Be OP. i always grabbed the sniper and camo on sandtrap. and it worked all the time. it doesn’t even matter on a BTB map. if there in the back of the map you can’t even see them anyway. if camo sniping was such a BIG problem how come i hardly ever saw it happening? ive never heard of anyone complaining about it outside forums. and even then it wasn’t heard of very often.
>
> it sounds like its more of a personnel problem. my way of balancing punishes them enough. It doesn’t matter if i want camo to stay or not it is staying. it makes much more sense to me if you try to come up with a way to fix it as is instead of crying to remove it. thats all the community does. If theres a thing people don’t like they want it removed. that is not how you fix anything.

Since when the Sandtrap have an Active Camo pickup?

If you ever played Hemorrhage on Halo: Reach against a full team who know what they are doing, you will understand how much of a problem Camo sniping is, you are completely invisible and when the Camo runs out to recharge, you hide behind a tree for complete cover and then come out, camo’d again when it has fully recharged.

Camo sniping is not just a problem with me, it is a problem in the community and the ones who complain about it are actually smart enough to realise it is a problem, if they aren’t complaining about it, they haven’t tried it out to see how stupid it is being invisible with a long range weapon.

> > > > > 1) Remove it from a loadout option.
> > > > > 2) Place it on the maps as a powerup.
> > > > > 3) Never think of allowing players to spawn with it ever again.
> > > >
> > > > Doesn’t matter if there is 5 months left till release its been confirmed as an AA so its staying an AA. instead of hopping on the hate band wagon how about you post some constructive way to balance it.
> > >
> > > There is no way to balance it if it is in a loadout. Camo is an ability that can change the entire course of a game. Now, instead of fighting for it on the map, players can spawn with it. You should never be given an ability that powerful off spawn. You would never give anyone the ability to use a Rocket Launcher as a loadout, so why would you give them Camo?
> >
> > um. there is a way to balance it. i do not see how what i listed above doesn’t balance it. they trade of being able to be seen with only being aware of whats infront of them. it would create less campers with camo.
> >
> > you arn’t given a rocket off spawn because it directly kills someone. camo does not.
>
> The issue isn’t people camping, I couldn’t care less about people camping. It’s their loss for camping, it is not an effective strategy as you start to play better players. The issue is being given something that powerful off spawn. As I said earlier, Camo can change the course of a game entirely. That’s why on MLG Construct (gasp! I mentioned MLG), there would be standoffs until the Camo popped up. It gives a team the ability to break a nearly flawless set-up and take back map control. The fact that you can now spawn with it and reuse it whenever it recharges is utterly ridiculous.

it can be OP if its use tactically like MLG uses it. But camo in its current state isn’t OP because of all the set backs it has. thats why camping is rampent with it. it was seemlingly the only way to use it right.

my camo has setbacks to the person but allows it to be used much much better. added with a slow recharge time people will have to choose when to use it instead of spamming it.