About halo.

Games Halo 5: Guardians
1

Ok this is gonna be a semi-long one.

Lets start off with by saying I support almost everything that was added in H4 and the only reason I feel it all failed was due to it being over the top and not restricted when it comes to load-out AAs and all that stuff I am torn on sprint so…its a no opinion-ish thing for me.

I also think de-scope worked a lot better then flinch.

Anyways lets get to the meat here, ever since halo:R I have thought that the main issue people have for the most part when it comes to AAs is the fact they keep going over the top with things I.E AL, JP, PV and AC if these additions would have never happened in the halo universe I am almost 100% that they would not have caught as much flak as they did.

Sure some people would not like them because people have their on opinions but thats gonna happen with anything out there AAs help halo more then hurt it as long as its the ones like thruster, holo and maybe…autosentry.

I know up above I said I don’t care about sprint but…in all actuality I have one complaint…I feel to please everyone it needs to move back to an AA so that way one could not sprint away and then thrust or sprint up to a hill and jp up.

Grenades, one of the huge things that made me support AL through-out H:R’s lifetime was the facts that grenades were ridiculous on that game I love H4’s grenades and I think they are fine (except pulse kinda is pointless since you only get one and sticks being in load-outs) as they can make spartans one shot/kill if placed and thrown right BUT are not as spam-able as reachs/3/2s I feel we need to keep them at this power level.

Load-outs, it has been said that these do no belong I disagree these right here stand to help halo more than some of the other additions all I need to say is they need to be restricted and most of the weps need to found on map. (like choose CC or BR and an AA)

Perks, they need to go or be completely revised but I don’t see this happening again.

EDIT: Another thing to add to all of this, I AM not trying to rant…I have played and enjoyed and even complained about every single halo game to date…so ya, this is not meant to be seen as a complain thread I just want halo to be amazing and well Ha I am rambling. SUMMERY OF THIS: I just wanted to think out loud.

2

Half of the perks are simply base player traits turned into add-ons. Nothing special, and shouldn’t come back. Why should we have to unlock certain features to use that were once already there by default? Ordnance needs to go as well. I like a stable game, not 25 people with SAWs, ICs, shotguns and rocket launchers jumping at me from out of nowhere, loadouts perhaps can work if 343i actually take into consideration what the community has suggested to balance them out (i.e. remove Boltshot, Plasmas, Pulse and LR’s + AAs and perks), and AAs should be reverted back to equipment which are usable until the player dies. Oh, and i think everybody knows which AAs should go, so i’m not going to bother listing them.

That is how it should work. That is the ideal Halo game which can utilise both the new and old gameplay styles in the same game (for me).

3

> Half of the perks are simply base player traits turned into add-ons. Nothing special, and shouldn’t come back. Why should we have to unlock certain features to use that were once already there by default? Ordnance needs to go as well. I like a stable game, not 25 people with SAWs, ICs, shotguns and rocket launchers jumping at me from out of nowhere, loadouts perhaps can work if 343i actually take into consideration what the community has suggested to balance them out (i.e. remove Boltshot, Plasmas, Pulse and LR’s + AAs and perks), and AAs should be reverted back to equipment which are usable until the player dies. Oh, and i think everybody knows which AAs should go, so i’m not going to bother listing them.
>
> That is how it should work. That is the ideal Halo game which can utilise both the new and old gameplay styles in the same game (for me).

I have never really been into equipment :I

But I thank you for your feedback and your input :slight_smile:

4

With Loadouts I think the only thing you should be able to choose is your primary (A rifle or an automatic) and an Armor Ability. A Magnum and 2 Frags would be your support regardless.

I never understood the Resupply enhancement. I can totally imagine a Spartan IV killing someone, and then running up to the body to collect the ammo and stuff, but then discovers he/she can’t pick up the grenades. So they just stand there struggling to pull the grenades off the body for a minute before just giving up and moving on.

You seriously need a support ability to loot a grenade off a fallen enemy? ^^
It just seems silly when I think about it.

5

The Highlighted part is the part I believe to be the best compromise, balanced and fair, without any BS. a well held system through the community.

<mark>Loadouts:</mark>
<mark>Primaries:</mark>
<mark>Battle Rifle</mark>
<mark>Assault Rifle</mark>
<mark>Covenant Carbine</mark>
<mark>Storm Rifle</mark>
<mark>Secondaries:</mark>
<mark>Magnum</mark>
<mark>Needle Pistol1</mark>
<mark>SMG2</mark>
<mark>Plasma Rifle*3</mark>
<mark>1 Frag Starts, (agreed to be the best number by many players to discourage grenade spam)</mark>
<mark>AAs on map</mark>
<mark>No sprint</mark>
<mark>No perks</mark>

*1 The Needle Pistol is a pistol version of the Needle Rifle from Halo Reach. having a magazine of 12, it is a 7 shot kill, with no scope, but is a 3 shot super combine on unshielded foes, and is automatic, with heavy upwards recoil, this is a predictable recoil, so can be handle appropriately, as opposed to the randomness caused by bloom or spread.

*2 The SMG has a 60 magazine, High bloom and is very deadly in CQC, so much it bests the AR at CQC in terms of kill time, but its high bloom leaves it vulnerable outside of CQC

*3 The Plasma Rifle has a movement stun feature like the Halo CE Plasma Rifle, but slower moving projectiles than the Storm Rifle, making Leading your target much more important causing it to also be best used in CQC environments, but for different reasons than the SMG.

The weapons all fill the role of their counterpart in different ways, and hence standout from them, giving the player a reason to choose one over the other. Also, to prevent the unpredictability caused by constant loadout changing, The player has 5 loadout slots in their Main Menu, but it cannot be edited in game, nor can they select a different loadout, so that a random factor is eliminated.

In the Competitive playlists, There is only a choice of 4 preset loadouts at the beginning of the game.

Battle Rifle and Magnum + 1 Frag
Covenant Carbine and Needle Pistol + 1 Frag
Battle Rifle and Needle Pistol + 1 Frag
Covenant Carbine and Magnum + 1 Frag

The loadout chosen at the beginning cannot be changed mid game.

I feel this gives the competitive fans of both these precision utilities a fair choice.

6

> The Highlighted part is the part I believe to be the best compromise, balanced and fair, without any BS. a well held system through the community.
>
> <mark>Loadouts:</mark>
> <mark>Primaries:</mark>
> <mark>Battle Rifle</mark>
> <mark>Assault Rifle</mark>
> <mark>Covenant Carbine</mark>
> <mark>Storm Rifle</mark>
> <mark>Secondaries:</mark>
> <mark>Magnum</mark>
> <mark>Needle Pistol1</mark>
> <mark>SMG2</mark>
> <mark>Plasma Rifle*3</mark>
> <mark>1 Frag Starts, (agreed to be the best number by many players to discourage grenade spam)</mark>
> <mark>AAs on map</mark>
> <mark>No sprint</mark>
> <mark>No perks</mark>
>
> *1 The Needle Pistol is a pistol version of the Needle Rifle from Halo Reach. having a magazine of 12, it is a 7 shot kill, with no scope, but is a 3 shot super combine on unshielded foes, and is automatic, with heavy upwards recoil, this is a predictable recoil, so can be handle appropriately, as opposed to the randomness caused by bloom or spread.
>
> *2 The SMG has a 60 magazine, High bloom and is very deadly in CQC, so much it bests the AR at CQC in terms of kill time, but its high bloom leaves it vulnerable outside of CQC
>
> *3 The Plasma Rifle has a movement stun feature like the Halo CE Plasma Rifle, but slower moving projectiles than the Storm Rifle, making Leading your target much more important causing it to also be best used in CQC environments, but for different reasons than the SMG.
>
> The weapons all fill the role of their counterpart in different ways, and hence standout from them, giving the player a reason to choose one over the other. Also, to prevent the unpredictability caused by constant loadout changing, The player has 5 loadout slots in their Main Menu, but it cannot be edited in game, nor can they select a different loadout, so that a random factor is eliminated.
>
> In the Competitive playlists, There is only a choice of 4 preset loadouts at the beginning of the game.
>
> Battle Rifle and Magnum + 1 Frag
> Covenant Carbine and Needle Pistol + 1 Frag
> Battle Rifle and Needle Pistol + 1 Frag
> Covenant Carbine and Magnum + 1 Frag
>
> The loadout chosen at the beginning cannot be changed mid game.
>
> I feel this gives the competitive fans of both these precision utilities a fair choice.

As much as I don’t want that to happen to AAs I could suffice if this is how they handled it…btw just as always you impress with the thought you put into your posts.

Cheers!

7

BR and cc can never be balanced. Any time an opponent is under 20% shield the br will kill instantly. The CC needs at least two trigger pulls.

Remove br bleed through you say. Now the br has none of the benefits of a burst weapon, but all of the disadvantages. Dropping a bullet of a burst will slow the kill time. And even then the CC becomes a better when when both players have just enough shield that two shots are require for a kill. Due to the CC faster rate of fire, it will get those 2 shots off before the br will.

I get it you like to use the cc. But the br and the CC will never be able to be balanced to have an equal chance at a kill in all situations, unless it becomes a reskin of the br.

This same problem exists for all load out weapons.

8

> I get it you like to use the cc. But the br and the CC will never be able to be balanced to have an equal chance at a kill in all situations

balance; a condition in which different elements are equal or in the correct proportions.

identical; similar in every detail; exactly alike.

Balance and identical are separate terms. Otherwise there would be no point in drawing any distinction between the two terms.

When we balance a bag of potatoes with a bag of apples, we aren’t turning the apples into potatoes, we are adding more apples or taking away apples to come to an equal weight.

In the case of an FPS, weight is synonymous with “usefulness”.

The BR and CC don’t need to be equally useful in the same situations, they need to be proficient in different situations that are equally valuable. The BR is better at CQC and finishing opponents while the Carbine is a better ranged option.

The only community I see people use the terms balance and identical interchangeably is this one.

9

The loadout solution that I think would be the most appropriated and flexible.

For truly competitive settings/playlist(s):
Identical starts.

For “default” (competitve) settings/playlists:
Preset loadouts that are balanced and properly adjusted to the selected map and gametype.
They would offer a weapon selection and a set default AA for all players, depending on the map and/or gametype. (Default AA could potentially differ between teams in case of an attacking/defending gametype i.e.).

For PvE Co-Op mode (in case it is designed with it in mind):
Expanded Custom Loadouts.

10

> balance; a condition in which different elements are equal or in the correct proportions.
>
> identical; similar in every detail; exactly alike.
>
> Balance and identical are separate terms. Otherwise there would be no point in drawing any distinction between the two terms.
>
> When we balance a bag of potatoes with a bag of apples, we aren’t turning the apples into potatoes, we are adding more apples or taking away apples to come to an equal weight.
>
> In the case of an FPS, weight is synonymous with “usefulness”.
>
> The BR and CC don’t need to be equally useful in the same situations, they need to be proficient in different situations that are equally valuable. The BR is better at CQC and finishing opponents while the Carbine is a better ranged option.
>
> The only community I see people use the terms balance and identical interchangeably is this one.

I just wanted to say thank you for this post.

11

> In the case of an FPS, weight is synonymous with “usefulness”.
>
> The BR and CC don’t need to be equally useful in the same situations, they need to be proficient in different situations that are equally valuable. The BR is better at CQC and finishing opponents while the Carbine is a better ranged option.

Which means that who wins in engagements can be situational.

At close range, AR beats BR and CC.
At mid-range, BR beats AR and CC.
At long range, CC beats AR and BR.

So as you go about the map, whether or not you are advantageous depends on what weapons you and your opponent are using. And since you cannot always predict what ranges you will be in and what your opponent will be using, you might have won an engagement because the fact that you chose Rock and your opponent chose Scissors gave you an advantage, not because you were more skilled.

Is this “balanced”? Sure, but so is a coin toss. This isn’t about “balance”; it’s about eliminating random chance as a factor in engagements.

12

> At close range, AR beats BR and CC.
> <mark>At mid-range, BR beats AR and CC.</mark>
> <mark>At long range, CC beats AR and BR.</mark>
>
> So as you go about the map, whether or not you are advantageous depends on what weapons you and your opponent are using. And since you cannot always predict what ranges you will be in and what your opponent will be using, you might have won an engagement because the fact that you chose Rock and your opponent chose Scissors gave you an advantage, not because you were more skilled.
>
> Is this “balanced”? Sure, but so is a coin toss. This isn’t about “balance”; it’s about eliminating random chance as a factor in engagements.

I would not say that at all as the BR in a skilled players hands can still beat a carbine and vice versa.

The CC and BR as you know have the same RRR range and can both be effective in each others ranges.

Heck I would even go out on a limb and say that the CC just awards the more skilled players but when it boils down to it they are equal.

Saying that CC vs BR is in anyway like rock paper scissors is kinda absurd.

( I am not counting the AR at all because that gun needs to move back to HR or H3 style.)

Equal skilled players one with a CC vs one with BR at any of there effective ranges have equal chance for winning a fight. (they have the same effective ranges)

13

> The CC and BR as you know have the same RRR range and can both be effective in each others ranges.
>
> Heck I would even go out on a limb and say that the CC just awards the more skilled players but when it boils down to it they are equal.

BR has a faster kill time in Halo 4 post-TU, plus the BR can break shields and kill a player in a single shot.

> Saying that CC vs BR is in anyway like rock paper scissors is kinda absurd.

I made a hypothetical example to point out the problem in the “different but equal/balanced” starts ideology. It wasn’t meant to be an exact likeness of Halo 4’s weapon attributes.

14

The kill time be it as it may be slightly faster its not the guns that make these good its the player the carbine requires A diff playstyle as the BR plus the strafe semi ruins the BR’s 4shot and with a carbine it does not.

15

Just a thought: Why do we have to split multiplayer up into classic/competitive and infinity settings?

Why can’t 343i just make one multiplayer mode for everyone and focus all their attention on making it good and balanced? I don’t think a lot of features from Halo 4’s multiplayer should be included in Halo 5, including AAs, loadouts, perks, ordinance.

They should simplify the multiplayer back down and make it better. With less options, you’ll find more things work better and as intended and thus results in a more competitive atmosphere where everyone will win (not win the game, but everyone will have a better experience).

16

> Just a thought: Why do we have to split multiplayer up into classic/competitive and infinity settings?
>
> Why can’t 343i just make one multiplayer mode for everyone and focus all their attention on making it good and balanced? I don’t think a lot of features from Halo 4’s multiplayer should be included in Halo 5, including AAs, loadouts, perks, ordinance.
>
> They should simplify the multiplayer back down and make it better. With less options, you’ll find more things work better and as intended and thus results in a more competitive atmosphere where everyone will win (not win the game, but everyone will have a better experience).

One mode for everyone? Good luck with that.

I can’t help thinking that what you may mean is one mode that you can live with that the rest of us will like because you do. Not saying you’re wrong, but personally I have to say that I would miss everything you said should not be included. Sure, I’d still play, from time to time, but not like I played CE or Halo 3 or Reach. I’d play it because there is no other game like Halo, but CE style multiplayer is just not enough to keep me playing for hours like it used to. There’s a lot more games out there now that offer a challenge. If 343i is not going to even try to compete then Halo will be the game that was.

17

> Is this “balanced”? Sure, but so is a coin toss. This isn’t about “balance”; it’s about eliminating random chance as a factor in engagements.

Is your team not communicating enemy positions to you?
Can you not see enemies in-game?
What about radar or footsteps?

I disagree that it’s a coin toss. Yes, you might not be paying attention and run around the corner into a CQC user, giving him a free kill. That doesn’t mean there was nothing you could do about it.

> Which means that who wins in engagements can be situational.

I don’t disagree, but situational and random are not the same thing.

I get to the rocket first, shoot it at my opponent, and win the battle. That’s a situational event but there’s nothing random about the outcome.

> Why can’t 343i just make one multiplayer mode for everyone and focus all their attention on making it good and balanced?

Vektor doesn’t think the game should even have loadouts.
Sammy thinks the game should be nothing but customization and fiesta.
Who do you appeal to? You can’t have both if there’s only one setting.

18

> I disagree that it’s a coin toss. Yes, you might not be paying attention and run around the corner into a CQC user, giving him a free kill. That doesn’t mean there was nothing you could do about it.

There is: I can limit myself to only the parts of the map in which I have the advantage.

Loadouts only give the illusion of choice; in reality, they are restrictive. If all players start with the same equipment, no matter where I go or what I do, I will never be any more or less advantageous than anyone else unless one of us picked up one of the map weapons, which are limited. If all players start with different weapons that have different roles, I now have to restrict myself to the areas where my weapon is useful in order to keep from being disadvantaged. That is the formula of a class-based shooter, not an arena shooter.

> I don’t disagree, but situational and random are not the same thing.
>
> I get to the rocket first, shoot it at my opponent, and win the battle. That’s a situational event but there’s nothing random about the outcome.

You got to the Rockets fast enough that you had enough time to pick it up and fire it at the other player without killing yourself in the blast. There’s nothing situational about that; you made the better decisions or movements and were rewarded with the advantage.

19

In the next Halo multiplayer there will be just one player on each side. Each player gets a pistol. The game starts with players back-to-back. A timer counts down to zero, the players take ten paces, turn and fire. Game over.

Equal starts. No advantages. No frills. No gimicks. No excuses. Best player wins.

Sounds like fun.

20

> There is: I can limit myself to only the parts of the map in which I have the advantage.
>
> Loadouts only give the illusion of choice; in reality, they are restrictive. If all players start with the same equipment, no matter where I go or what I do, I will never be any more or less advantageous than anyone else unless one of us picked up one of the map weapons, which are limited.

I don’t see how this is any different than staying out of range of a Shotgun user or having to flank Sniper Rifle users. So long as there are weapons on the map there are limits to your behavior. Loadouts simply alter the frequency, which is irrelevant in my opinion (irrelevant so long as you aren’t spawning with power weapons).

Another thing to note is loadouts don’t automatically mean the exclusion of utility weapons. The soldier in TF2 is considered a utility class for example.

> If all players start with different weapons that have different roles, I now have to restrict myself to the areas where my weapon is useful in order to keep from being disadvantaged. That is the formula of a class-based shooter, not an arena shooter.

Define arena shooter. There are Quake / Unreal veterans that consider this an arena shooter.

> You got to the Rockets fast enough that you had enough time to pick it up and fire it at the other player without killing yourself in the blast. There’s nothing situational about that; you made the better decisions or movements and were rewarded with the advantage.

I won the battle because I happened to be closest to the rockets. If I wasn’t closest to the rockets I could’ve lost. To me that’s a situational victory.

> In the next Halo multiplayer there will be just one player on each side. Each player gets a pistol. The game starts with players back-to-back. A timer counts down to zero, the players take ten paces, turn and fire. Game over.
>
> Equal starts. No advantages. No frills. No gimicks. No excuses. Best player wins.

People seem to like Team Snipers, which is the same thing only without the back to back ordeal.

The game doesn’t need asymmetric starts to be fun and competitive, all I’m saying is asymmetric starts don’t harm those aspects of the game.