AAs as Pickups

Games Other Halo
1

I’ve been commenting on several threads over the past few days regarding the new/old AAs and how they function. It seems as though nobody really knows what they want to do with them, and they are a very controversial topic in Halo.

A common argument is the following:
“Competitives want AAs taken out because they hate change.”
False. We want them changed (note my word choice) so that they don’t do the following:

  1. Break maps
  2. Allow worse players to be better
  3. Allow individual players to have an advantage off spawn

Another argument I see is:
“AAs should stay because they provide new ways of moving around maps and another element players must be wary of.”
Okay, cool. But the current implementation of AAs will not work for either argument.

I don’t see why 343 does not make AAs pickups on the map. Many players believe Halo 3 had a great Multiplayer experience, and many use it as an example in various arguments. However, didn’t Halo 3 introduce equipment? There were Grav Lifts, capable of jumping from the bottom to the top of a Sandbox map, thus breaking the map. There were Power Drainers, capable of taking down one’s shields in a matter of seconds, as well as halting any vehicular movement. There were Regens, capable of healing a player in a matter of seconds and likely saving them from death.

The difference is that these were one-time use pickups, not permanent-use abilities. Players had to fight over these powerups. Players did not spawn with these powerups. Players could only use them once, and thus had to decide when to use them. Players had to wait for them to respawn after use in order to re-use them.

Why can’t we do the same in Halo 4? MLG did this in Halo Reach, taking away Sprint but leaving Jetpacks and other abilities as pickups on several maps, including Countdown. Players had to fight over these powerups. Players had to make sure they used them wisely and didn’t just fly around the map getting shot. Players had to wait until they respawned in order to pick them up.

Amazingly, I did not hear many complaints about this system.

I consider myself a competitive-minded player. I enjoy competition, and I enjoy playing games that are equal at the start. With the introduction of equipment in Halo 3, players were still equal upon spawning, but had to fight over equipment just like power weapons. In Halo Reach, players could choose which ability to spawn with, making it an unequal playing environment from the moment they spawn.

I believe that making AAs pickups will solve many of the problems players have with them at the moment. Here are some arguments against pickups, along with their logical counter-arguments:

  1. Having AAs as pickups will limit the overall use of them.
  • Halo 3 managed to hold several different types of equipment on the same map. Maps had Bubble Shields and Power Drainers; maps had Grav Lifts and Regens; maps had Flares and Bubble Shields and Regens and Power Drainers. It is clear that maps can be suited for more than one or two abilities, and each map should have abilities placed on them that are suited for that map, just as power weapons are placed strategically.
  1. Nobody used equipment, but everybody uses AAs because you spawn with them.
  • First off, it’s not my fault you chose not to use your equipment. I personally would make sure my team had most equipment before rushing into battle. Secondly, there are maps where there were numerous pieces of equipment, and every person had access to one. This can be replicated in Halo 4 very easily.
  1. Equipment was pointless because you only get to use it once.
  • False. Many players chose when to use equipment by determining their overall likelihood of survival. If a player went 1-shot, they likely threw down their Regen or Bubble Shield. If a player wanted to capture a flag from a high base, they likely threw down their Grav Lift. Equipment was meant to be one-time use, as it adds another tactic that must be evaluated. With AAs capable of infinite usage, players are more likely to blindly rush and spam their Left Bumpers. If they had a limit on the usage, or they knew that the AA would die along with them, then they are more likely to stay back and provide assistance to those who need it, or use it quickly to get the objective while sacrificing themselves for the team.

What are your thoughts? Should AAs continue to be given unfairly to everybody, or should they be pickups? Should they exist at all?

2

For the 6th time, AA aren’t bad, just the ones in Reach were.
And here is how to fix them for Halo 4.

In this post, I will explain why AA were so bad in Reach.
And I will explain how 343 is going to make AA work correctly in Halo 4.

Why were AA so bad in Reach?
They were bad in Reach because they aided the player in more than one situation.
But not all Reach AA did this. Such as Hologram and Active Camo.
I will explain why Armor Lock, Jetpack, DropShield, Evade, and Sprint were bad AA.

Armor Lock : Effective in 6 situations, making it the worst AA.

-Saved the player from being splattered, also destroying the vehicle.
-Distracted enemy team from continuing on to possibly kill other players.
-Gave the player time to wait for his team to arrive and help or save him.
-Either negated or backfired all explosives.
-Allowed the player to disable vehicles or enemies’ shields.
-Gave player ability to win in a melee battle everytime.

Jetpack : Effective in 4 situations.

-Allowed player to reach map positions he wasn’t supposed to be on.
-Allowed player to take shortcuts.
-Temporarily gave player a higher view point than other players.
-Allowed player to escape death.

Drop Shield : Effective in 3 situations.

-Gave player temporary protection from incoming fire.
-Healed player and his team. (not shields, but health)
-Distracted enemy team from continuing on to possibly kill other players.

Evade : Effective in 3 situations.

-Allowed player to move about the map quicker.
-Allowed player to escape death.
-Allowed player to easily avoid any attack.

Sprint : Effective in 2 situations.

-Allowed player to move about the map quicker.
-Allowed player to escape death.

How is 343 going to fix the AA?
Like I said earlier, AA should have only one purpose.
Luckily, 343 knows this and is fixing it, if they haven’t already.
Allow me to explain each AA in Halo 4 that we currently know of.

Hologram

Allows the player to distract or confuse the enemy.

Active Camo

Hides the player from enemies.
(343 may shorten the usage time as well)

Promethean Vision

Allows the player to temporarily look through walls.

Jetpack (guessing)

Gives the player a quick boost upward to reach higher ground.

What about Sprint?
Sprint, though it is no longer considered an AA, still needs to be fixed.
343 has already fixed it, and has told us how.

In Reach, Sprint allowed the player to move quicker and escape death.
They have fixed this by causing Sprint to slow down when the player is being shot.
So now, it only allows for temporarily quicker movement speed.

So there you have it.
AA will no longer break the game as they did in Reach.
Thanks to the diligent designers at 343.
Thank you.

Now can we please just forget about this whole, “AA as pickups” thing?
343 isn’t going to do that!
So stop telling them to!

  • III P u r 3 III -
3

Pure, that doesn’t answer my question. To solve all of these problems, pickups would be the best option. You do not know about the possibilities that Promethean vision brings, you don’t know how the Jet pack will work, and there are other scenarios that Hologram and Active Camo work under (ex. Escape enemies with Camo, Survive beatdowns with Hologram).

4

> For the 6th time, AA aren’t bad, just the ones in Reach were.
> And here is how to fix them for Halo 4.
>
>
>
>
> In this post, I will explain why AA were so bad in Reach.
> And I will explain how 343 is going to make AA work correctly in Halo 4.
>
>
> Why were AA so bad in Reach?
> They were bad in Reach because they aided the player in more than one situation.
> But not all Reach AA did this. Such as Hologram and Active Camo.
> I will explain why Armor Lock, Jetpack, DropShield, Evade, and Sprint were bad AA.
>
> Armor Lock : Effective in 6 situations, making it the worst AA.
>
>
>
> -Saved the player from being splattered, also destroying the vehicle.
> -Distracted enemy team from continuing on to possibly kill other players.
> -Gave the player time to wait for his team to arrive and help or save him.
> -Either negated or backfired all explosives.
> -Allowed the player to disable vehicles or enemies’ shields.
> -Gave player ability to win in a melee battle everytime.
>
>
>
>
> Jetpack : Effective in 4 situations.
>
>
>
> -Allowed player to reach map positions he wasn’t supposed to be on.
> -Allowed player to take shortcuts.
> -Temporarily gave player a higher view point than other players.
> -Allowed player to escape death.
>
>
>
>
> Drop Shield : Effective in 3 situations.
>
>
>
> -Gave player temporary protection from incoming fire.
> -Healed player and his team. (not shields, but health)
> -Distracted enemy team from continuing on to possibly kill other players.
>
>
>
>
> Evade : Effective in 3 situations.
>
>
>
> -Allowed player to move about the map quicker.
> -Allowed player to escape death.
> -Allowed player to easily avoid any attack.
>
>
>
>
> Sprint : Effective in 2 situations.
>
>
>
> -Allowed player to move about the map quicker.
> -Allowed player to escape death.
>
>
>
>
>
> How is 343 going to fix the AA?
> Like I said earlier, AA should have only one purpose.
> Luckily, 343 knows this and is fixing it, if they haven’t already.
> Allow me to explain each AA in Halo 4 that we currently know of.
>
> Hologram
> Allows the player to distract or confuse the enemy.
>
> Active Camo
>
>
>
> Hides the player from enemies.
> (343 may shorten the usage time as well)
>
>
>
>
> Promethean Vision
> Allows the player to temporarily look through walls.
>
> Jetpack (guessing)
> Gives the player a quick boost upward to reach higher ground.
>
>
> What about Sprint?
> Sprint, though it is no longer considered an AA, still needs to be fixed.
> 343 has already fixed it, and has told us how.
>
> In Reach, Sprint allowed the player to move quicker and escape death.
> They have fixed this by causing Sprint to slow down when the player is being shot.
> So now, it only allows for temporarily quicker movement speed.
>
>
>
> So there you have it.
> AA will no longer break the game as they did in Reach.
> Thanks to the diligent designers at 343.
> Thank you.
>
>
>
>
> Now can we please just forget about this whole, “AA as pickups” thing?
> 343 isn’t going to do that!
> So stop telling them to!
>
> - III P u r 3 III -

You know what would fix these issues better? Putting them on the map. Your solution still gives an element of imbalance to the game. And honestly, how the hell are people still supporting Camo as a spawning trait? No good can come of it. It is an ability that can singlehandedly change the course of a match. A player should never be given such a trait off spawn.

5

Good points Mitch. Camo should always be a pickup anyways.

6

I think the only people against AA’s as pickups:

A) Have never played these settings in Reach

B) Are unwilling to fight for control of the AA’s

or

C) Are simply against balanced settings

7

http://halo.xbox.com/Forums/yaf_postst64630_The-Halo-4-Compromise-Thread.aspx
I (my other account) never bothered to update it after the gameinformer stuff, but i still think those are the best guidelines, and they can do anything outside of that…and alot of people would be happy.

8

There are just too many incompetent people on these forums. Notice how many replies the well thought-out threads get, then look at how many replies a thread about Exploding Jetpacks gets. There’s a huge difference. Also notice how many “Thanks” are given to people with bad ideas.

9

Yeah sure, I would love to face a team who got the only invs sniper/shotty/sword in the game, pared up with the jetpack guy using sniper/rocket/DMR across the map. Sounds like a great game, not… :stuck_out_tongue:
First of all, your thread is far from “well though out”, and you’ll get as many thanks as you deserve. This thread was old even before you made it, because other similar threads are already being discussed, with better OPs and even original ideas or better arguments.
Not to mention that what worked in Halo Reach might not work in Halo 4 and vice versa, and comparing AAs and equipment is what I would call far from smart…AAs are used many times, while equipment is used once. AAs were designed to be something everyone has, equipment not. AAs are designed to counter each other, equipment can’t do that. And so on, and so on…

Last but not least, if the (not your, the) “pick up AA” idea was any good, people would swarm to that playlist and the TU would have changed that. Neither of those has happened, forget it OP, try to make an original thread next time.

10

With loadouts being confirmed, I’m pretty sure you get whatever AA you want

11

Edited by Moderator - Please refrain from making nonconstructive posts.

*Original post, click at your own discretion.

> I’ve been commenting on several threads over the past few days regarding the new/old AAs and how they function. It seems as though nobody really knows what they want to do with them, and they are a very controversial topic in Halo.
>
> A common argument is the following:
> “Competitives want AAs taken out because they hate change.”
> False. We want them changed (note my word choice) so that they don’t do the following:
> 1) Break maps
> 2) Allow worse players to be better
> 3) Allow individual players to have an advantage off spawn
>
> Another argument I see is:
> “AAs should stay because they provide new ways of moving around maps and another element players must be wary of.”
> Okay, cool. But the current implementation of AAs will not work for either argument.
>
> I don’t see why 343 does not make AAs pickups on the map. Many players believe Halo 3 had a great Multiplayer experience, and many use it as an example in various arguments. However, didn’t Halo 3 introduce equipment? There were Grav Lifts, capable of jumping from the bottom to the top of a Sandbox map, thus breaking the map. There were Power Drainers, capable of taking down one’s shields in a matter of seconds, as well as halting any vehicular movement. There were Regens, capable of healing a player in a matter of seconds and likely saving them from death.
>
> The difference is that these were one-time use pickups, not permanent-use abilities. Players had to fight over these powerups. Players did not spawn with these powerups. Players could only use them once, and thus had to decide when to use them. Players had to wait for them to respawn after use in order to re-use them.
>
> Why can’t we do the same in Halo 4? MLG did this in Halo Reach, taking away Sprint but leaving Jetpacks and other abilities as pickups on several maps, including Countdown. Players had to fight over these powerups. Players had to make sure they used them wisely and didn’t just fly around the map getting shot. Players had to wait until they respawned in order to pick them up.
>
> Amazingly, I did not hear many complaints about this system.
>
> I consider myself a competitive-minded player. I enjoy competition, and I enjoy playing games that are equal at the start. With the introduction of equipment in Halo 3, players were still equal upon spawning, but had to fight over equipment just like power weapons. In Halo Reach, players could choose which ability to spawn with, making it an unequal playing environment from the moment they spawn.
>
> I believe that making AAs pickups will solve many of the problems players have with them at the moment. Here are some arguments against pickups, along with their logical counter-arguments:
>
> 1) Having AAs as pickups will limit the overall use of them.
> - Halo 3 managed to hold several different types of equipment on the same map. Maps had Bubble Shields and Power Drainers; maps had Grav Lifts and Regens; maps had Flares and Bubble Shields and Regens and Power Drainers. It is clear that maps can be suited for more than one or two abilities, and each map should have abilities placed on them that are suited for that map, just as power weapons are placed strategically.
>
> 2) Nobody used equipment, but everybody uses AAs because you spawn with them.
> - First off, it’s not my fault you chose not to use your equipment. I personally would make sure my team had most equipment before rushing into battle. Secondly, there are maps where there were numerous pieces of equipment, and every person had access to one. This can be replicated in Halo 4 very easily.
>
> 3) Equipment was pointless because you only get to use it once.
> - False. Many players chose when to use equipment by determining their overall likelihood of survival. If a player went 1-shot, they likely threw down their Regen or Bubble Shield. If a player wanted to capture a flag from a high base, they likely threw down their Grav Lift. Equipment was meant to be one-time use, as it adds another tactic that must be evaluated. With AAs capable of infinite usage, players are more likely to blindly rush and spam their Left Bumpers. If they had a limit on the usage, or they knew that the AA would die along with them, then they are more likely to stay back and provide assistance to those who need it, or use it quickly to get the objective while sacrificing themselves for the team.
>
> What are your thoughts? Should AAs continue to be given unfairly to everybody, or should they be pickups? Should they exist at all?

Flame bait anyone?

12

> >

Not at all. He posted a completely logical argument for why placing AA’s on the map is better than giving them to players off spawn.

13

> Yeah sure, I would love to face a team who got the only invs sniper/shotty/sword in the game, pared up with the jetpack guy using sniper/rocket/DMR across the map. Sounds like a great game, not… :stuck_out_tongue:
> First of all, your thread is far from “well though out”, and you’ll get as many thanks as you deserve. This thread was old even before you made it, because other similar threads are already being discussed, with better OPs and even original ideas or better arguments.
> Not to mention that what worked in Halo Reach might not work in Halo 4 and vice versa, and comparing AAs and equipment is what I would call far from smart…AAs are used many times, while equipment is used once. AAs were designed to be something everyone has, equipment not. AAs are designed to counter each other, equipment can’t do that. And so on, and so on…
>
> Last but not least, if the (not your, the) “pick up AA” idea was any good, people would swarm to that playlist and the TU would have changed that. Neither of those has happened, forget it OP, try to make an original thread next time.

So I’m guessing you hated Camo and Overshield back in the day. I guess you also hate the idea of weapons placed on the map. You fail to understand that a player rightfully earned the AA if it is on the map. If you can’t stop them from picking it up, that’s your fault, and you deserved to be punished for it. It is the same concept of power weapons and power-ups.

14

> Yeah sure, I would love to face a team who got the only invs sniper/shotty/sword in the game, pared up with the jetpack guy using sniper/rocket/DMR across the map. Sounds like a great game, not… :stuck_out_tongue:
> First of all, your thread is far from “well though out”, and you’ll get as many thanks as you deserve. This thread was old even before you made it, because other similar threads are already being discussed, with better OPs and even original ideas or better arguments.
> Not to mention that what worked in Halo Reach might not work in Halo 4 and vice versa, and comparing AAs and equipment is what I would call far from smart…AAs are used many times, while equipment is used once. AAs were designed to be something everyone has, equipment not. AAs are designed to counter each other, equipment can’t do that. And so on, and so on…
>
> Last but not least, if the (not your, the) “pick up AA” idea was any good, people would swarm to that playlist and the TU would have changed that. Neither of those has happened, forget it OP, try to make an original thread next time.

You’ve gone on every thread I’ve been in and completely made a fool of yourself.

You clearly support bad players getting crutches, and you are against any logical compromise. Your posts are never thought out, and they are jumbled messes.

What did picking up AAs have to do with the TU? It’s clear that 343 tried to fix Reach, but because it has a sexual relationship with the casual community, they took it out.

Equipment don’t counter each other. The only ones that do this are Regen and Power Drainer. The others have no relation to each other. In Reach, it is very evident that the AAs do not counter each other, as nobody uses AAs like Hologram, Camo is used only when Snipers are available, and Evade is used by better players. The only AAs used are Armor Lock and Jetpack, with Sprint available for those who don’t like any AAs.

Please don’t mention “better arguments” until you actually provide one worth talking about.

Facing a team with power weapon control is what Halo is about. Two team - completely equal at the start, battle over weapons, map control, and equipment in order to succeed. Your argument fails right there.