AA still needs a buff (But so does Air)

Games Halo Wars Series
1

The fact that AA focus fires is incredibly frustrating. Why don’t you fix that 343? Why did you make it that Air is green against everything especially bases! A fully maxed out base shouldn’t die in 15 seconds from a wave of Banshees.

What AA needs
+Way more health, they are currently made out of cardboard
+Take away the focus fire, it’s beyond stupid

Their damage is fine. It’s so frustrating when you make the counters and they underperform.

Update:

I have never claimed that Air is OP, my biggest problem revolves around AA naturally focus firing and banshees ability to melt bases.

After playing against Joker, Metaloid, and Scootman (yes we got spanked) I can confirm that the AoE change is not the best course of action for AA. It just seems like too much of a buff to fix the focus fire problem.

As for the health buff, sometimes AA gets killed off easily, but this seems irrelevant when it comes to how powerful hogs are in this game.

Another take away from my match against them was that it raised an interesting dilemma, should the game be balanced around how the most competitive players play? When I think of game that is too tailored to competitive play I think of Halo 5. Halo 5 isn’t fun to me because it is far too competitive. That’s a topic for another day but it got me thinking where the real problem with HW2 is: there isn’t a set space for competitives, casuals, and those in between.
I think they tried making a competitive game mode in Blitz but the problem is they made blitz pay to win.
Rumble is suppose to be the “fun” game mode too but I don’t think it’s working for us.

So now, the upper crust players, good players, and newbies all are under the same balance implementations, and maybe that isn’t the best system, maybe we deserved better but this is what we got.

After my matches with the upper crust players I don’t think Air is a viable option for them and that seems kinda sad. I can’t however say that Air is useless because I can use it to beat good players; not the best players but good ones. I know there are those that will disagree with me and it’s easy to say those players aren’t “good” but they are the players the ranked system matches me with.

Anyways, to conclude:
-Don’t buff AA AoE by 25% that seems like too much of a buff to fix the overkill effect
-Buff Air against core vehicles like Warthogs
-Debuff Air’s damage against bases slightly
-Buffing AA’s armor against AV seems like a better route to take than a general health buff

2

No

3

Pls stop

It hasn’t even been a new patch since the last big “AA sux” or “Air is OP” thread. I’m pretty sure everyone agrees with an AA AoE buff to make up for the focus fire (which would take coding work to fix).

4

If you leave your base at fort0 its your fault it gets melted. A full pop banshees needs almost 1 min gor a full teched unsc base as i found out earlier.

And the problem of focus fire only affects the first wave of missiles. At best you can increase fire rate and lower dmg so dps stays the same.
HP wise theyre good just dont send them in head on into them, make use of their range.

5

Snipers > Reavers > Wolverines > Hunters > Rangers > Cyclops if we are talking about how effective counter units kill their respective units. AA is some of the best performing units in the game and definitely do not need a health boost. Focus fire I agree is not needed but can help out in different situations e.g if they have a lot of nightingales which will heal a load of slightly damaged units.

6

If you are going to increase their health and fix their focus fire then you need to drop the damage AA do to air.

I do agree with Banshees doing minimal damage to bases to compensate for their unit damage and speed. Their damage to units will need to increase and/or cost will need to decrease to still make them useful.

7

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> 2533274818651339;1:
> The fact that AA focus fires is incredibly frustrating. Why don’t you fix that 343? Why did you make it that Air is green against everything especially bases! A fully maxed out base shouldn’t die in 15 seconds from a wave of Banshees.
>
> What AA needs
> +Way more health, they are currently made out of cardboard
> +Take away the focus fire, it’s beyond stupid
>
> Their damage is fine. It’s so frustrating when you make the counters and they underperform.

No

8

> 2533274814970819;3:
> Pls stop
>
> It hasn’t even been a new patch since the last big “AA sux” or “Air is OP” thread. I’m pretty sure everyone agrees with an AA AoE buff to make up for the focus fire (which would take coding work to fix).

Changes to AA missiles re-targeting would take code. Focusing specifically on the AOE which we have investigated and seems to work quite well requires a value change to the AOE. Both AA as well as AA turrets is something we have looked heavily into along with the interactions between the various types of air as modifiers are present for each specific unit and how it relates to AA as well as most other things in the game.

9

> 2533274814970819;3:
> Pls stop
>
> It hasn’t even been a new patch since the last big “AA sux” or “Air is OP” thread. I’m pretty sure everyone agrees with an AA AoE buff to make up for the focus fire (which would take coding work to fix).

That’s all I said. I said the damage was fine, you’re all’s crying is why 343 is afraid to even touch AA

10

> 2533274840245702;7:
> > 2533274818651339;1:
> > The fact that AA focus fires is incredibly frustrating. Why don’t you fix that 343? Why did you make it that Air is green against everything especially bases! A fully maxed out base shouldn’t die in 15 seconds from a wave of Banshees.
> >
> > What AA needs
> > +Way more health, they are currently made out of cardboard
> > +Take away the focus fire, it’s beyond stupid
> >
> > Their damage is fine. It’s so frustrating when you make the counters and they underperform.
>
> No

Yeah

11

> 2533274792014876;8:
> > 2533274814970819;3:
> > Pls stop
> >
> > It hasn’t even been a new patch since the last big “AA sux” or “Air is OP” thread. I’m pretty sure everyone agrees with an AA AoE buff to make up for the focus fire (which would take coding work to fix).
>
> Changes to AA missiles re-targeting would take code. Focusing specifically on the AOE which we have investigated and seems to work quite well requires a value change to the AOE. Both AA as well as AA turrets is something we have looked heavily into along with the interactions between the various types of air as modifiers are present for each specific unit and how it relates to AA as well as most other things in the game.

That’s fine then. I just can’t believe how good Air still is and how fast it can melt a maxed base.

Right now the best AA is Banshees especially with how more mobile they are; and that just makes the game so repitive and boring.

12

I thought we were done with these types of threads.

I guess not.

13

> 2533274840435203;4:
> If you leave your base at fort0 its your fault it gets melted. A full pop banshees needs almost 1 min gor a full teched unsc base as i found out earlier.
>
> And the problem of focus fire only affects the first wave of missiles. At best you can increase fire rate and lower dmg so dps stays the same.
> HP wise theyre good just dont send them in head on into them, make use of their range.

I had 13 max reavers and they all kept shooting the same damn banshee. Super. Annoying. I won’t plz stop you guys are the reason for this crap

14

> 2533274830489835;12:
> I thought we were done with these types of threads.
>
> I guess not.

Read the thread

15

> 2533274818651339;1:
> The fact that AA focus fires is incredibly frustrating. Why don’t you fix that 343? Why did you make it that Air is green against everything especially bases! A fully maxed out base shouldn’t die in 15 seconds from a wave of Banshees.
>
> What AA needs
> +Way more health, they are currently made out of cardboard
> +Take away the focus fire, it’s beyond stupid
>
> Their damage is fine. It’s so frustrating when you make the counters and they underperform.

First first of all no aa is strong especially reavers and also 1-4 as isn’t going to stop an army maybe you had a bad army composition and air isn’t green against everything and of course an army of banshees are going to take out a base so what are you going to do about it and also as already got a buff seriously nobody talks about this as much anymore as this isn’t a problem. The bigger problem is stuff like hog rushing as you had time to prepare against banshees but you can’t prepare your self from warthogs as their build time with forge and Isabel is more ridiculous than this

16

> 2533274818651339;13:
> > 2533274840435203;4:
> > If you leave your base at fort0 its your fault it gets melted. A full pop banshees needs almost 1 min gor a full teched unsc base as i found out earlier.
> >
> > And the problem of focus fire only affects the first wave of missiles. At best you can increase fire rate and lower dmg so dps stays the same.
> > HP wise theyre good just dont send them in head on into them, make use of their range.
>
> I had 13 max reavers and they all kept shooting the same damn banshee. Super. Annoying. I won’t plz stop you guys are the reason for this crap

If by “this crap” you me maintaining the fact that the AA and air interaction is fine for high level players then yes, we are the reason.

Nothing is wrong with high level players saying that the AA and air interaction is great where it is. For most of the high level and competitive community their micro and macro skills are able to completely negate air except in 3s and only on a few maps.

However I will admit that the skill needed to fully utilize AA against air is much more than to use air effectively. That said I personally don’t see that as a problem. There will always be skill gaps for certain strategies in any RTS.

17

> 2533274927740213;16:
> > 2533274818651339;13:
> > > 2533274840435203;4:
> > > If you leave your base at fort0 its your fault it gets melted. A full pop banshees needs almost 1 min gor a full teched unsc base as i found out earlier.
> > >
> > > And the problem of focus fire only affects the first wave of missiles. At best you can increase fire rate and lower dmg so dps stays the same.
> > > HP wise theyre good just dont send them in head on into them, make use of their range.
> >
> > I had 13 max reavers and they all kept shooting the same damn banshee. Super. Annoying. I won’t plz stop you guys are the reason for this crap
>
> If by “this crap” you me maintaining the fact that the AA and air interaction is fine for high level players then yes, we are the reason.
>
> Nothing is wrong with high level players saying that the AA and air interaction is great where it is. For most of the high level and competitive community their micro and macro skills are able to completely negate air except in 3s and only on a few maps.
>
> However I will admit that the skill needed to fully utilize AA against air is much more than to use air effectively. That said I personally don’t see that as a problem. There will always be skill gaps for certain strategies in any RTS.

I’m not talking about that, I’m talking about the fact that Reavers currently are worse AA than banshees and it makes the game repetitive. Counters should annihilate the things they are designed to counter. Especially since reavers are so expensive.

I think I play this game enough to see when something is broken. Reavers focus fire more than sentinels; it’s a disgrace.

The reason it hasn’t been fixed is because everytime someone brings it people just say “no” and “please stop omg”

18

> 2535408720103530;15:
> > 2533274818651339;1:
> > The fact that AA focus fires is incredibly frustrating. Why don’t you fix that 343? Why did you make it that Air is green against everything especially bases! A fully maxed out base shouldn’t die in 15 seconds from a wave of Banshees.
> >
> > What AA needs
> > +Way more health, they are currently made out of cardboard
> > +Take away the focus fire, it’s beyond stupid
> >
> > Their damage is fine. It’s so frustrating when you make the counters and they underperform.
>
> First first of all no aa is strong especially reavers and also 1-4 as isn’t going to stop an army maybe you had a bad army composition and air isn’t green against everything and of course an army of banshees are going to take out a base so what are you going to do about it and also as already got a buff seriously nobody talks about this as much anymore as this isn’t a problem. The bigger problem is stuff like hog rushing as you had time to prepare against banshees but you can’t prepare your self from warthogs as their build time with forge and Isabel is more ridiculous than this

I had 15 max reavers, 4 locust, pavium and a few wraith invaders and they all got rinsed by a max pop army of banshees and a few engineers.

They didn’t even have to use any leader powers, they simply lost in a straight up fight. I mean I devoted 75/120 of my pop to AA and they killed maybe 10 banshees. You all think that’s fair? I’m honestly curious. I’m tired of having to go Air to counter Air.

The focus fire is the main issue, it’s utterly ridiculous.

19

> 2533274818651339;10:
> > 2533274840245702;7:
> > > 2533274818651339;1:
> > > The fact that AA focus fires is incredibly frustrating. Why don’t you fix that 343? Why did you make it that Air is green against everything especially bases! A fully maxed out base shouldn’t die in 15 seconds from a wave of Banshees.
> > >
> > > What AA needs
> > > +Way more health, they are currently made out of cardboard
> > > +Take away the focus fire, it’s beyond stupid
> > >
> > > Their damage is fine. It’s so frustrating when you make the counters and they underperform.
> >
> > No
>
> Yeah

Absolutly not. None of this, where is your evidence of this

20

> 2533274818651339;14:
> > 2533274830489835;12:
> > I thought we were done with these types of threads.
> >
> > I guess not.
>
> Read the thread

What makes you think I haven’t?