A working compromise for Spartan Abilities?

Games Halo Infinite
1

So, hello there my friends! :slight_smile: I was going to post this on reddit but I thought that this place would be better. I think I may have a very nice way of settling the Abilities debate, or at least an interesting one.
I want to start it off by saying that I know maybe I can de a meanie sometimes, and I tend to vent out my frustrations with Halo on these forums, and I know it’s not right, but it’s because I love Halo! And I only want it to live… :+)
I’ve been playing Halo from the start, and own all the FPS games and play them all quite frequently. I’m a lover of both Campaign, and Multiplayer.

So, as for my suggestion. Here it goes…
Halo works fine without Abilities. You don’t need them to play the game and have fun, and I think that is a very good part about Halo. For instance, when they put a classic H3 playlist in H5 I absolutely love it. There is no denying that that is truly one of the best experiences with Halo to date. If H:I was to play like that, I wouldn’t even be mad.
Halo CE, 2, 3, all played just fine without it. But, did you ever find yourself thinking “Ah man, if my spartan didn’t crawl everywhere I would’ve lived!!! GAHH” or, “man this’d be cooler if I was just able to run sometimes!” same goes with thrusters. Like, why did John’s armor have those big things on his back when they serve no purpose? When they made them do thrusters I was like “AWWH yeeah.” I think that these movements bring an interesting dynamic to the game play, and its good to refresh the game, with respect to the game itself and those who play it. (I can respect a back to basics POV, since sometimes the triple bacon burger gets old, and you just want a regular ol’ burger.) But, I am of the opinion that sometimes, these changes are good and we should work with them. I also think it brings more into the immersion factor. it makes you feel more like your Spartan, since you make him run when you freak out and imagine that you’d run or thrust if you were in his/her boots. Maybe my reason isn’t your reason, maybe my reason is the wrong one, but this is just my take.

I think H4 was so close to having the sprint balance down. a real good part of it was that you could get knocked out of it when getting shot, and that it was not unlimited. 10 paces running, 8 walking to reboot. Where it went wrong was the shields. I agree that that was a well intended, but awful mistake. I know that the maps had been growing since Reach, but it still wasn’t the problem it became in H5.
I think that in H5 they had another part of the sprint balance down pretty good. The way that you can get knocked out of sprint by getting shot until you reach full speed is pretty darn good. I think the plasma weapons also knock you out of sprint too. (please correct me if I am wrong on that one.) I like that, I think that that should stay. The shields not recharging until you stop running is also one a very good balance. We all know they went wrong with unlimited sprint. Another side-effect of the sprint and abilities is the inflation of the maps. If you haven’t check out the video that shows how much the maps have grown to “balance” the abilities including sprint. Totally not cool, and it really sucks that that has happened to our beloved game.

Now, to my solution on how we can compromise, Thank you also for reading through all that haha. Some of the abilities are going to have to go, I’m sorry. (Or become optional thru customs, certain game types, campaign etc.)
Ground Pound? how would that not hurt the Spartan? I know that they’re tough guys, put your still flying fist first onto concrete, or whatever Forerunner structures are made of haha. That’s just silly. They’re soldiers, not Iron man Action heroes. The intro to the story where you see them ground pounding was a bit cheesy/cringe, if you ask me. It’s fun and I use it and all, but c’mon man. It needs to go.
Spartan Charge? that’s a tricky one. It kinda makes sense, but in all honesty that mechanic can be a bit broken sometimes. sometimes the game will make your spartan charge like at 1,000mph, other times it’s a slow flaccid little push. I think when you’re at a certain proximity, it just flys at your opponent, idk. Yeah you can dodge it, but, it might just be a little cheap. If it never came back I would be happy, if it did, I would be okay. but it may have to be nerfed further.
Stabilzing mid air. That’s a little cheap in my opinion. I don’t think many asked for that, and if they did, did they really mean it? it kinda helps, but I just turn it off. It feels just as cheap as 3rd person shooters when you peak around corners with the cam, and your opponent doesn’t see you. not the same situation, but just as cheap IMO. This is one of the mechanics that contributed to the swelling of H5’s maps IMO. This one needs to go.
Thrusters? Stay. they’re a great addition that makes for interesting gameplay, and if we’re all about slowing Halo down, this provides a good way to speed it up when necessary. I would be okay with a bit of nerfing on the speed, or how your opponent can look like a flailing fish sometimes.
Sliding? Hmm, I don’t think many complain about it, I don’t really see the issue. It adds an interesting element to the already important crouching game. If it came back cool, if it didn’t, that’s cool too. I think maybe the ability to shoot while sliding may be a bit too much. but thats just me.
Clamber? Oh what, you mean the lazy man’s crouch jump? it’s a nice addition, and I welcome it. if it comes back great, if it left, I’d be a bit confused. It never hurt anyone, and makes for a good medal haha.

Big Daddy Sprint. Alright.
Limited Sprint like in H4 was perfect. Unlimited Sprint is an evil that should never make its way back into Halo ever again. I think that for most light arms, it should revert back to the 10pacesrun/8recharge style. Or maybe less like a 8/6. Whatever keeps the maps from swelling up. No shooting while sprinting ofc. Plasma weapons should always slow down and eventually stop a player. Hot plasma burns! bullet weapons can slow down, but not stop a player full sprint. Large weapons should always stop a player full sprint. (that includes vehicles weapons, and turrets on the slow down to stop rule) I think that the different draw times for different guns was a great addition in H5. I think that we should work that in to the sprint. Either if a player has a for example a rocket, they may only run 6/recharge in 6. Or something like that. Larger heavier ( I really mean big heavy power weapons like Rockets, Fuel Rod, etc.) weapons should nerf the player’s abilities. Perhaps all of them. Whether that applies only whether they have it drawn, or on their back is for y’all to decide. And ofc, a shield timer for the sprints like in H5.

What do y’all think? if a Halo game had rules like these, I’d honestly love it. I think it’s a great balance for those who love abilities,and those who don’t. I think that ofc, we should have the option and perhaps separate playlists for the abilities, or some that have a mix, like Team Arena in H5. I hope 343i reads this, and takes some of it into consideration. I know they read my post that in my opinion, lead to the match composer in the MCC. Thank you for reading it all, for those of you who did lol. I am very passionate about halo and have been wanting to write this for months, but ya know, life can keep you busy!
And with whatever I say in this post, I will never mean it to offend, berate, or whatever ya now. i love you all! :slight_smile:

2

> 2533274820814456;1:
>

Theres no compromise I can see except removal of all abilities including sprint except thrusters. The abilities and ESPECIALLY sprint are extremely detrimental to how halo’s gameplay is supposed to function. I appreciate your time you took to write this post, but the direction 343 has been taking is without question the wrong direction

3

I disagree. The only compromise in my opinion would be to increase bms and strafe speed, increase fov to at least 90, and jump height a bit to match the older halos. Im fine with thrusters staying though.

4

If sprint stays (which it probably will) I’d like to see them try weapon holstering. If you sprint your weapons automatically get put away and you have to bring them back up to shoot after you’re done sprinting. Pretty much what Apex does when you want to sprint even faster.

5

Just have the BMS at a decent speed, have thrusters, put in a double jump that is linked to thrusters.

Then bring back 1 time use equipment as map pick up items like it was in Halo 3 and I think it was Naqser idea (or at least where I read it first) to do with bio- foam aka heathpacks. I think that’s a really good too. I’m sure he’ll explain it to anyone who is interested in hearing it.

6

> 2535423412908536;3:
> I disagree. The only compromise in my opinion would be to increase bms and strafe speed, increase fov to at least 90, and jump height a bit to match the older halos. Im fine with thrusters staying though.

Pretty much this. Increased FOV, BMS, strafe speed, jump height and thrusters could be the key to the definitive Halo gameplay mechanics (that Halo 4 should’ve introduced). Classic, but still fast.

7

I’ve been playing since the Halo 3 days, and I have to throw my 2 cents in and say I loved the spartan abilities in 5. I liked how they made movement more fluid and dynamic, and I thought that since they did away with randomization and armor abilities most people would be okay with that. Plus the improvements to sprint so that shields won’t charge when running was welcomed.

So yeah, keep the majority of the spartan abilities and give them tuning and the proper impact. Everyone reveres Halo 3 mp like it’s perfect, but it wasn’t. Generally speaking, it was a great improvement and very well balanced and such but it’s just too limited nowadays. I have never heard of a franchise adopting some variation of sprint for 3 straight games and then suddenly dropping it. It’s backwards innovation. Of course there’s a wrong way to implement it, but there’s also a right way which they’re getting closer and closer to achieving.

So I’m adressinr you, 343. I’m a Halo veteran who has traditionally been put off by the frantic and random nature of COD type games, but despite that, I don’t want the pace slowing down in Infinite. I don’t want another halo 3 as far as movement goes. The most important thing is even starts and map control for power weapons. So make sure that stays as such and then do what you can to tune the movement options. Too much of the community is fixated in the past- which is good for a lot of areas, but not this one. Keep working on the spartan abilities.

8

They should at least nerf it a bit if they insist on keeping it.

9

Have all past armor abilities for custom games. The H5 Spartan abilities… I dunno. I like Thrusters. Ground Pound was eh. Don’t mind sprint.

Actually I think I can go either way. I don’t care about this debate anymore.

10

> 2533274888477235;2:
> > 2533274820814456;1:
> >
>
> Theres no compromise I can see except removal of all abilities including sprint except thrusters. The abilities and ESPECIALLY sprint are extremely detrimental to how halo’s gameplay is supposed to function. I appreciate your time you took to write this post, but the direction 343 has been taking is without question the wrong direction

Mostly everyone agrees. We do not want abilities.

11

There is not a compromise. Everyone who hates Spartan abilities will not like multiplayer in Halo infinite. Those who do like spartan abilities will like that new mechanic.

12

> 2535423412908536;3:
> I disagree. The only compromise in my opinion would be to increase bms and strafe speed, increase fov to at least 90, and jump height a bit to match the older halos. Im fine with thrusters staying though.

One of the things I like about Halo is that the players feel well grounded, and like they move solidly. I feel like increasing the strafe speed would make them move like players in COD. I hate that so much. They look like twitching bars of soap all over the map. Totally ruins the immersion factor for me.

13

> 2533274888477235;2:
> > 2533274820814456;1:
> >
>
> Theres no compromise I can see except removal of all abilities including sprint except thrusters. The abilities and ESPECIALLY sprint are extremely detrimental to how halo’s gameplay is supposed to function. I appreciate your time you took to write this post, but the direction 343 has been taking is without question the wrong direction

I generally agree. I like thrusters too.

Maybe they can design the maps around no Abilities, and the players have none. But, make a power up available that gives players Abilities for a little bit. Ya know, like an OS, or camo, but name it something like “power supply” or “energy boost” whatever, but along the lines that it gives the Spartan’s suit a temporary boost of power to have them be able to have the A. Abilities. I’d welcome that.

One of the reasons I’d like abilities to stay in a way is that they can make gametypes fun. Imagine playing Infection, and while you don’t have them, the Zombies can clamber, sprint, thrust, boost. (Not charge and pound)
It’d be scary, fun, and a great balance for them. Everyone hates being the zombie. And everyone has been in a match where the humans go 1000-0 and the zombies get farmed to bleep.

14

> 2533274820814456;12:
> One of the things I like about Halo is that the players feel well grounded, and like they move solidly. I feel like increasing the strafe speed would make them move like players in COD. I hate that so much. They look like twitching bars of soap all over the map. Totally ruins the immersion factor for me.

So a fast strafe speed, something CoD does not have (if I’m not mistaken, I haven’t played the game in quite some years now…) makes Halo feel like CoD but you support sprint, a mechanic that is one of the key features that distinguished classic Halo and CoD? Sounds reasonable…

15

> 2533274801973487;14:
> > 2533274820814456;12:
> > One of the things I like about Halo is that the players feel well grounded, and like they move solidly. I feel like increasing the strafe speed would make them move like players in COD. I hate that so much. They look like twitching bars of soap all over the map. Totally ruins the immersion factor for me.
>
> So a fast strafe speed, something CoD does not have (if I’m not mistaken, I haven’t played the game in quite some years now…) makes Halo feel like CoD but you support sprint, a mechanic that is one of the key features that distinguished classic Halo and CoD? Sounds reasonable…

I don’t necessarily support sprint, but I understand that there are those who like it, and that it may have a place in the more unconventional gametypes that Halo has in it’s huge sandbox. Like I said, Halo’s movement has always been firm, and I worry that a faster strafe speed may have the spartans move around too slippery- thats what I don’t like…

16

I really don’t think there is a middle ground here. 343 just needs to pick one or the other and stick with it. Basically, cater to the hardcore fans that are more likely to stick around longer, or cater to the players that get bored easily and are more likely to jump to the newest fad game.

17

> 2533274820814456;1:
> But, did you ever find yourself thinking “Ah man, if my spartan didn’t crawl everywhere I would’ve lived!!! GAHH” or, “man this’d be cooler if I was just able to run sometimes!”

No. Never.
Because 7m/s is running, not crawling.

> 2533274820814456;1:
> I also think it brings more into the immersion factor. it makes you feel more like your Spartan, since you make him run when you freak out and imagine that you’d run or thrust if you were in his/her boots. Maybe my reason isn’t your reason, maybe my reason is the wrong one, but this is just my take.

Every game since Reach made me feel less like a Spartan, because I suddenly can no longer run and shoot at the same time.
It can be argued that Reach was supposed to be that way, because Spartan-IIIs are generally weaker than II’s, but for Chief in H4 and H5G, that’s a de facto downgrade, as Spartan-II’s are known to keep their aim even at speeds higher than sprint speed in the games.

And that’s your general misconception, where people will disagree with you, both on a gameplay level as well as with respect to lore: In my and lots of other people’s minds, sprint is not something that lets you do more in a game, it’s a restriction that forces you to do less.

I’m generally indifferent to most other abilities, but sprint needs to go, if only because it inevitably breaks the gameplay into “combat mode” and “movement mode”. The immersion aspect is just the cherry on top.

> 2533274820814456;1:
> I think H4 was so close to having the sprint balance down. a real good part of it was that you could get knocked out of it when getting shot

I haven’t played Halo 4 in a long time, but I genuinely do not remember that game having desprint. Can anybody else confirm / refute?

> 2533274820814456;1:
> No shooting while sprinting ofc.

That’s another thing that I highly disagree with.
If the game absolutely positively unqeustionably has to have sprint for whatever reason, the absolute minimum that needs to be fixed is that players can shoot while sprinting. Give them increased spread during sprint if you have to, but this break in gameplay between movement and combat needs to die. Not to mention solving the escapability problem.