A solution for loadouts...

Instead of custom loadouts, why not go back to Reach loadouts and revamp them? One of the main arguments I see for loadouts (and one of the few I consider valid) is that without loadouts there isn’t a whole lot of weapon variety. Now I’ve got my own theory on that, but for the most part it’s pretty true.

So rather than “solving” this problem by introducing custom loadouts, how about 4-5 options to work with similarly to Reach’s loadout system? You have the choice between:

  • BR
  • Carbine
  • AR
  • Storm Rifle.
  • Scoped Automatic (more below)

The rest of the weapons previously included in loadouts would then be placed on map (each offering a marginal advantage [this is going back to the aforementioned theory that I haven’t finished yet] over the default spawn weapons) like they were in previous iterations in the series.

Now, once you select your weapon another menu or branch opens up, and you are prompted with another 4 options. These options would be armor abilities, and more specifically:

  • Thruster Pack
  • Hard Light Shield
  • Hologram
  • (New Ability with similar rates of usefulness here)

This would allow users to choose and use their weapons and armor abilities from a much more refined (and arguably more balanced) selection. You can still play how you want to a point, but there’ll be nothing overly unexpected to worry about, and nothing will be overly unfair like certain setups tend to be.

The remaining AA’s will be placed on maps as pickups where applicable (think Jetpacks from MLG Reach and the old powerups like camo), remaining armor abilities would of course be included and usable in Campaign, customs and forge for other purposes.

Everything else about the loadouts will be the same. No perks, no choice between Secondary weapons or Grenades. Simply a choice between primary and armor ability to offer a little more variety to gameplay while still keeping it as balanced as possible.

Now, given that this is in game selection and not pre-game selection, we’ll probably want to give people some time to choose. Reverting to the old spawn system (thus no instant spawns) we’ve tackled two birds with one stone and offered a slightly more classic experience without posing a huge detriment to gameplay.

Another possible addition to the weapons would be the ODST SMG, which if you recall has a scope. This would be the “in between” point, a scoped mid range automatic with medium-high recoil.

-TL;DR:- You are offered a selection of 4-5 close-medium range weapons, once picked you are offered a second option of 3-4 armor abilities. You choose one of each.

Thoughts and suggestions anyone?

As a proponent of loadouts (just not Halo 4’s loadouts) I think this could work… but it all depends on so many other things.

Honestly, the biggest issues I had with Halo 4’s setup was the perks. and their side effects, e.g. base grenade/shield/vehicle behavior. Removing the perks gives you a simpler starting point, which in turn makes balancing the weapons, grenades, and armor abilities that much simpler.

In most cases, Reach’s loadouts were simply limited to different AAs, and not other weapons. Still, I think that simplified format is exactly what Halo 5 should consider if they want to include loadouts.

> As a proponent of loadouts (just not Halo 4’s loadouts) I think this could work… but it all depends on so many other things.
>
> Honestly, the biggest issues I had with Halo 4’s setup was the perks. and their side effects, e.g. base grenade/shield/vehicle behavior. Removing the perks gives you a simpler starting point, which in turn makes balancing the weapons, grenades, and armor abilities that much simpler.
>
> In most cases, Reach’s loadouts were simply limited to different AAs, and not other weapons. Still, I think that simplified format is exactly what Halo 5 should consider if they want to include loadouts.

True, but there’s still a few problems with the options in Halo 4. One of the problems with offering a large array of weapons like Halo 4 did, was that the weapons that would have been on map were removed.

Like I said, I’ve got a whole thing I’m writing up about that which I’ll post later, but for now the idea I’m going off of is one that allows us to still use loadouts (to an extent) without taking weapons off the map.

The other issues with Halo 4’s loadouts were: Weapons of similar style offering advantages at different ranges. Forcing weapons into niche rolls and limiting weapon variety to effectiveness based on map size and range. Lots of balance related problems really, and problems that would be fixed by offering either less or different weapons/abilities.

This idea would pretty much negate the first two of those problems (to an extent).

There is of course room for improvement and other ideas to look into.

> Instead of custom loadouts, why not go back to Reach loadouts and revamp them? One of the main arguments I see for loadouts (and one of the few I consider valid) is that without loadouts there isn’t a whole lot of weapon variety. Now I’ve got my own theory on that, but for the most part it’s pretty true.
>
> So rather than “solving” this problem by introducing custom loadouts, how about 4-5 options to work with similarly to Reach’s loadout system? You have the choice between:
>
> - BR
> - Carbine
> - AR
> - Storm Rifle.
> - <mark>Scoped Automatic</mark> (more below)
>
> The rest of the weapons previously included in loadouts would then be placed on map (each offering a marginal advantage [this is going back to the aforementioned theory that I haven’t finished yet] over the default spawn weapons) like they were in previous iterations in the series.
>
> Now, once you select your weapon another menu or branch opens up, and you are prompted with another 4 options. These options would be armor abilities, and more specifically:
>
> - Thruster Pack
> - Hard Light Shield
> - Hologram
> - (New Ability with similar rates of usefulness here)
>
> This would allow users to choose and use their weapons and armor abilities from a much more refined (and arguably more balanced) selection. You can still play how you want to a point, but there’ll be nothing overly unexpected to worry about, and nothing will be overly unfair like certain setups tend to be.
>
> The remaining AA’s will be placed on maps as pickups where applicable (think Jetpacks from MLG Reach and the old powerups like camo), remaining armor abilities would of course be included and usable in Campaign, customs and forge for other purposes.
>
> Everything else about the loadouts will be the same. No perks, no choice between Secondary weapons or Grenades. Simply a choice between primary and armor ability to offer a little more variety to gameplay while still keeping it as balanced as possible.
>
> Now, given that this is in game selection and not pre-game selection, we’ll probably want to give people some time to choose. Reverting to the old spawn system (thus no instant spawns) we’ve tackled two birds with one stone and offered a slightly more classic experience without posing a huge detriment to gameplay.
>
> Another possible addition to the weapons would be the ODST SMG, which if you recall has a scope. This would be the “in between” point, a scoped mid range automatic with medium-high recoil.
>
> -TL;DR:- You are offered a selection of 4-5 close-medium range weapons, once picked you are offered a second option of 3-4 armor abilities. You choose one of each.
>
> Thoughts and suggestions anyone?

I SHALL ENFORCE THE -Yoink- OUT OF THIS!

Well, I’m not fan of loadouts, but this is a much better option for a few reasons.

1.) No “Secondaries”: I really hate how we have gotten these subsets of weapons that are designed to excel at nothing. Leave the Plasma Pistol and Boltshot alone and for the love of god give us a interesting magnum. What I wouldn’t give for the ODST Automag in all its 4x scoped, high rof, low(no?) spread, recoil controlled glory.

2.) Limited scope: It reigns in a lot of the more frustrating elements of Halo 4 and even Reach. It also takes the “loadouts” out of a separate menu which makes it easier to adjust. In Halo 4 it was personal loadouts or nothing(a few tricks in CGs aside).

As for the weapon set I would make a few adjustments.

*BR
-4 shot
-No spread(but still has predictable recoil)
-2x Scope
-All around balanced weapon. Lacks the up close firepower of AR,
and lacks the consistent ranged accuracy of the BR

*Needle Rifle
-7 shot(3 shot supercombine)
-Beta 16 round mag
-2.5x scope
-Longer range niche. Lacks DPS of the other starters,
makes up for it with accuracy over range.

*AR
-14 shot(32 rd mag)
-Solid accuracy when burst fired, high full auto spread(See SAW)
-Low shield damage(high health damage)
-Close range niche, Highest DPS of the starter at the cost of range
but burst fire allows a limted ability to reach targets at Mid

*Storm Rifle(This is where your Scoped auto comes in)
-15 shot(Battery)
-1.5-2x scope
-Light plasma stun
-Fairly tight full auto spread
-Mid Range niche, its scope and spread allows it to perform well at mid range
but lacks the DPS of the BR/AR as well as the range of the BR/N’ifle

First off I thought you quit waypoint until Halo 5 :). Second of all:

I personally would love to have an SMG as a starter, just maybe not the scoped ones. The SMG could have 1 spare clip, and be a secondary. It would be paired up with maybe a weaker weapon? I think that IF it is preset then it should have at least a weapon that complements the main weapon as a starter maybe this:

1.Assault Rifle
Magnum
Frags

2.BR
Grenade Launcher(from Reach, however has 4-6 rounds and slightly less powerful 2-3sk)
Frags

If not liked then Magnum should be added.

3.Carbine
Plasma Pistol
Plasma Grenades

4.Storm Rifle
Needle Pistol(look at other posts about loadouts)
Plasma Grenades

  1. Light Rifle
    Boltshot
    Pulse Grenades

  2. Suppresor
    Sentinel Beam(or at least one that has a similar role)
    Pulse Grenades

Optional
7. DMR(less magnetism or same as BR, around 6 sk and then 9-10 sk for body shots only)
SMG(1 clip)
Frags

  1. Needle Rifle
    Plasma Rifle(50-70% or more plasma gauge usage per shot.)
    Plasma Grenades

If 7 and 8 were dismissed

Due to the DMR being ‘taken out’, I propose maybe a Buff? It being gone should be more of a Power Weapon to combat BRs, Carbines, and maybe even slightly smaller attack than the Snipers?
Same goes for its Promethean counter parts and Covenant ones(maybe old Needle Rifle?)

AAs

I suggest that you also add the Auto Sentry to the list.

How about a different approach.

AAs are set for every gametype, banning, or giving different AAs nearly everytime

Slayer: Hardlight Shield, Auto Sentry, Hologram, Thruster Pack.
No sprint

BTB:
Limited to only Precision Weapons and Magnums, Sentinel Beams, and Needle Pistol
Hologram, Thruster Pack, Jetpack, Promethean Vision, Hacker(stops other AAs), Teleport(way Knights use)
Sprint enabled

FFA: No AAs
Limited to semi-automatic primaries.
Forced Magnums, Needle pistols, or Sentinel Beam-ish weapons
Only Frags
Sprint Enabled

MLG: Old school

Infection(Flood):
At launch: No sprint for Humans, lower jump, no AAs, usual Shotguns, magnums and maybe an Assault Rifle and Grenade Launcher loadout?

Only 1-4 Initial Ordanances
Smaller scale weapons scattered around map(and scarce amounts layed out)

Infected(or Flood) can pick up Weapons(Custom games)
-can Sprint
-have Evade
-have Thruster Pack
-have AC
-have Promethean Vision
-Flood can pick up weapons(better be there ;_:wink:

Action Sack+ are pretty much solid or take up the original plans on Loadouts

This is all I can add to this without anymore clarification.

I’d like specs to return. Just not have any over powering ones like ammo and survivor. Plus i’d like AA’s/specs to add a visual thing to your guys armor.

If we did that i could see the problem of people not liking certain pieces that rep the items used. SO instead of that we could start unlocking different armor pieces that require you to perform certain tasks with said AA or spec to unlock the armor piece.

I still think at the very least AA’s should be shown visually somehow on the person.

The problem with loadouts is that it pushes Halo away from the realm of Arena Shooter’s and into the realm of Class Based shooters. A game can’t be both. Arena shooters are types of games that put equal opposing forces against one another, where knowledge of weapon spawns, map layout and player skill are the factors that turn the tide of the match conflict. Loadouts eliminate the need to control weapon spawns, which thereby decreases the need to acquire mastery of map layout, which subsequently narrows skill gap.

I would be ok with it in modes that make sense, such as firefight.

> The problem with loadouts is that it pushes Halo away from the realm of Arena Shooter’s and into the realm of Class Based shooters. A game can’t be both. Arena shooters are types of games that put equal opposing forces against one another, where knowledge of weapon spawns, map layout and player skill are the factors that turn the tide of the match conflict. Loadouts eliminate the need to control weapon spawns, which thereby decreases the need to acquire mastery of map layout, which subsequently narrows skill gap.
>
> I would be ok with it in modes that make sense, such as firefight.

Well that’s the thing. That’s the reason I set it up like it did, because this takes nothing away from skill. The only choice between weapon when it comes down to it is BR/AR. The Carbine and Storm rifle are essentially the same thing as the BR/AR, so it’s giving a choice without changing the weapons abilities (too much).

So it’s still an equal spawn, with a slightly different set of abilities. The idea is to appease both crowds without compromising core gameplay.

The addition of the armor abilities is done in such away that they’re there, but they’re not super powerful. Each offers a little bit of strength without changing to whole tide of a battle.

Now as for the bit about loadouts eliminating the need to control weapon spawns: Not really. I can see that with Halo 4’s loadouts (that goes back to my theory which still isn’t done yet) because there aren’t any wepons placed on map, but that was the entire point of this idea. To offer loadouts in such a way that we don’t need to remove weapons from map.

Taking 5 weapons away isn’t going to be a huge deal. You can still pickup: DMR, LR, Needle Rifle, Boltshot/Mauler, Plasma Pistol, Plasma Rifle, and whatever weapons they have chosen to put in the game.

The lack of Carbine/Storm and ODST SMG isn’t going to do any significant damage. You can still offer the choice between those and not have to worry about doing damage to the global weapon system.

So long as the other weapons all retain an advantage over the current spawn weapons, there’s not much of a problem.

> The problem with loadouts is that it pushes Halo away from the realm of Arena Shooter’s and into the realm of Class Based shooters.

Actually lets get a few things straight.

It’s been a good few years since the 90’s but let me tell you that equal starts are NOT a defining feature of the arena shooter by any good phylogeny builder’s definition of the class. That spawning system came with some of the very first, if not THE very first, multiplayer shooters as an inevitable consequence of simply taking single gameplay and finding some way of putting more than one person in instead of AI’s. Quite simply, finding the best possible spawning solution wasn’t a priority as getting the format to work was the first big evolutionary challenge of the multiplayer FPS. THEN came the need to build better competitive gameplay in such games as unreal tournament but THEY only used equal starts because it was conventional for every other shooter on the market as well because the question of finding the best weapon-spawning solution hadn’t gotten above the level of balancing the basic-most pistol. In FACT Unreal tried to move in the direction of differential spawning with distinctly variable spawn points bringing you closer or farther away from different weapons of a large variety in your own spawn and, later, special weapon racks that forced you into this or that role without it once being about “map control” or other strategic elements.

It was a limited, awkward way of doing things, HENCE the loadout system which is so pervasive in the market now (extending to far more than JUST COD) that its quite easily the new standard. If Unreal Tournament was made today instead of in 1998 you can be -Yoink!- sure it would have used it (because again the choice of spawning system was a highly CONVENTIONAL one) because from everywhere between Space Marine (Halo’s closest analog, which is a far better balanced arena shooter BTW despite loadouts AND classes), Monday Night Combat, Section 8, Battlefield, and COD loadouts have proven themselves to be a better, more reliable way of delivering players the bottom end of the sandbox.

Halo is left out merely because its community can’t often distinguish between intentional features and developmental artifacts, items that are only here because it was most convenient not to try to break with tradition when the series was first conceived.

> A game can’t be both. Arena shooters are types of games that put equal opposing forces against one another, where knowledge of weapon spawns, map layout and player skill are the factors that turn the tide of the match conflict. Loadouts eliminate the need to control weapon spawns, which thereby decreases the need to acquire mastery of map layout, which subsequently narrows skill gap.

No, arena shooters are fast paced, dynamic games that put personal initiative and teamwork above other situational gameplay elements such that the man who wins int he fight between a link gun and a flack cannon is the one who can best use their chosen variety of kill-a-majig in that particular context (and the fight is ultimately up to them, not their tools.) Halo is NOT, nor has ever been, an arena shooter because in far too many kinds of encounters the winner is simply decided by who showed up with the correct choice from the rock-paper-scissors triad of (for one example) shotgun, sniper, rocket that they’ve been lucky enough to come across (ie. the right place and the right time, only one of which you have any chance of affecting.)

Its class based gameplay only without the appropriate spawning system to make the choice of scissors a strategic one except for how one has happened to come by those weapons. That may be what we call “map control” but its entirely symptomatic of a core dysfunction in the way bungie originally designed Halo around a campaign sandbox and haphazardly threw it into a multiplayer format. The fact that some small effort is required to “control” the map and its toybox makes no difference for as with any broken feature the benefit is not automatically granted. There’s always some small fight, but the crux is that the rewards are far from being proportional to the effort (which is certainly the case now.)

Now that could be great fun (more explosions than usual for your average player), but as a design philosophy its pretty flaccid one hence the change now. Halo more than any other game on the market needs a serious overhaul and what 343 has done with Halo 4 should only be the start of it.

I think as opposed to “Loadouts” You should just choose your “Loadout”.

And the choices should be very limited.

You can customize your “Default” Loadout from the Lobby UI, but you can temporarily change it whenever you’re at the game start, or respawn screen.

It’s pretty simple really, when you are respawning, the UI shows:

<- (Image of selected precision weapon), (Image of selected Automatic/Sidearm) ->
_(Image of selected grenade)
______________________________________ V _______________________________________

To change your selected weapon, press the corresponding arrow on your D-Pad.

Your “Precision” Weapon choices would include the BR, Carbine, and LR.

“Automatic” Weapon choices would include the AR, Storm Rifle, and Sentinel Beam.

“Grenade” choices would include ONE Frag, Plasma, or Pulse.

To balance the LR, it’s unscoped function should become an accurate, headshot-capable automatic function with a reasonably low rate of fire, say barely faster than a Carbine’s, that has a kill time just a little slower than a BR’s while scoped will still fire straight single-shot, 3 round consuming power-shots, and the scope should be reduced to 2x to match the Carbine and BR’s, and de-scope should be added back into the game so BR’s and Carbine’s can knock LR user’s out of scope in long ranged engagements.

This setup would make everyone start of with the same basic tools, effectively equal starts, while also showing off their own playstyle whether they prefer the Light Rifle/Scope meta-game, the Carbine’s rate of fire, leading their Automatic shots, or sustained beams.

Everyone get’s a fair Precision Utility weapon, and a fair close-range backup Automatic, and ONE grenade each with slight benefits in certain situations, but not enough to turn a game around.

Perks being completely removed promotes more balanced, and even starts, and doesn’t strip down the native abilities we should have, like faster shield recharge, and picking up grenades from corpses (which 1 grenade spawns help keep from turning the game into a Halo 3-style grenade flood)

Armour Abilities should either be removed from the game completely, or converted into map-spawns, or new forms of map-based power-ups.

Ordinance doesn’t necessarily need to be removed completely, but it does need to be completely static, and probably not even contain power weapons anymore. Even if it just contained a full ammo version of your primary/secondary loadout choices, or 2x your loadout grenade as options, so if you’re out of ammo in a sticky pinch, or you’ve used up your power weapon(s) you can get your initial stuff back.

And to make a note on comments I’ve seen about a “Needle Pistol”. The needler already IS a pistol, well, a machine-pistol.

If anything it could be a sidearm if they made it comparable to Halo 2 or Reach’s, instead of the broken OP ones in Halo 3 and 4.

> I think as opposed to “Loadouts” You should just choose your “Loadout”.
>
> And the choices should be very limited.
>
> You can customize your “Default” Loadout from the Lobby UI, but you can temporarily change it whenever you’re at the game start, or respawn screen.
>
> It’s pretty simple really, when you are respawning, the UI shows:
>
>
> <- (Image of selected precision weapon), (Image of selected Automatic/Sidearm) ->
> _(Image of selected grenade)
> ______________________________________ V _______________________________________
>
>
> To change your selected weapon, press the corresponding arrow on your D-Pad.
>
> Your “Precision” Weapon choices would include the BR, Carbine, and LR.
>
> “Automatic” Weapon choices would include the AR, Storm Rifle, and Sentinel Beam.
>
> “Grenade” choices would include ONE Frag, Plasma, or Pulse.

I’m a little inclined to disagree with this. Giving people the ability to spawn with multiple utility weapons WOULD make things a little unfair, as there isn’t a way to predict which setups they might use. They’d effectively be able to spawn with a setup effective for any map and layout, which would effectively negate the need for them to move around and acquire other weapons to make up for the rolls they are currently missing.

If someone can spawn with a Light Rifle and an Storm Rifle, they’ve effectively got all the bases covered for all ranges, and for long range maps they’ve already got the most effective non-powerweapon at their disposal. There’d be no need for them to move around and acquire a long range weapon, because they can already spawn with the best one.

Allowing people to spawn with pistols/sidearms would also be counterproductive, as that doesn’t solve the problem of anti-vehicular combat with the plasma pistol and close range annoyances of the boltshot.

Same goes for plasma grenades.

If you give players the ability to cover all bases, there’s no logical reason for them to need to acquire weapons to aid them in that range. That was one of the biggest problems with Halo 4, was that you could spawn with the best weapon in any particular range. This was most evident in big team battle, especially when accompanied by the “stability” perk.

It just lead to a less enjoyable experience (from my perspective) overall.

> To balance the LR, it’s unscoped function should become an accurate, headshot-capable automatic function with a reasonably low rate of fire, say barely faster than a Carbine’s, that has a kill time just a little slower than a BR’s while scoped will still fire straight single-shot, 3 round consuming power-shots, and the scope should be reduced to 2x to match the Carbine and BR’s, and de-scope should be added back into the game so BR’s and Carbine’s can knock LR user’s out of scope in long ranged engagements.

Alright well you sort of fixed my above statement, but that still takes away one more weapon from the game that could have been used on maps. There’s no logical reason to really change a pre-existing weapon (in my opinion) so drastically and thus removing it from the on-map sandbox, instead of adding a new one.

> This setup would make everyone start of with the same basic tools, effectively equal starts, while also showing off their own playstyle whether they prefer the Light Rifle/Scope meta-game, the Carbine’s rate of fire, leading their Automatic shots, or sustained beams.
>
> Everyone get’s a fair Precision Utility weapon, and a fair close-range backup Automatic, and ONE grenade each with slight benefits in certain situations, but not enough to turn a game around.
>
> Perks being completely removed promotes more balanced, and even starts, and doesn’t strip down the native abilities we should have, like faster shield recharge, and picking up grenades from corpses (which 1 grenade spawns help keep from turning the game into a Halo 3-style grenade flood)

Essentially, it’s the same basic idea with a few weapon modifications. I agree with the idea, although disagree about the light rifle and grenades.

> Armour Abilities should either be removed from the game completely, or converted into map-spawns, or new forms of map-based power-ups.

Now here’s where I do disagree. I don’t think there’s anything overly flawed with armor abilities in their idea. So long as the abilities in question aren’t significantly powerful (in other words, jetpack, promie vision, camo) then they aren’t much of a problem. Hologram, Hardlight (possibly) and Thruster add to the game without taking too much away, which was my main reason for keeping them there.

Now that said, Jetpack could definitely be converted to an on-map pickup like it was on Countdown and Sanctuary in MLG Reach, and Camo can most certainly be reverted to powerup form. Promie vision and Auto Sentry ought to be removed entirely.

[Fos Kovul]Ordinance doesn’t necessarily need to be removed completely, but it does need to be completely static, and probably not even contain power weapons anymore. Even if it just contained a full ammo version of your primary/secondary loadout choices, or 2x your loadout grenade as options, so if you’re out of ammo in a sticky pinch, or you’ve used up your power weapon(s) you can get your initial stuff back.
[/quote]
I think ordinance is going to be a whole different beast to tackle in terms of discussion, which is why I decided to leave it out.

> If anything it could be a sidearm if they made it comparable to Halo 2 or Reach’s, instead of the broken OP ones in Halo 3 and 4.

Again, I’m inclined to disagree. The lower amount of weapons we remove from maps (the needler being a rather important one, even in Reach) the better. The Halo 4’s needler was just the right strength for a Tier 2 powerweapon, which in my opinion is where it should be.

> The problem with loadouts is that it pushes Halo away from the realm of Arena Shooter’s and into the realm of Class Based shooters. A game can’t be both. Arena shooters are types of games that put equal opposing forces against one another, where knowledge of weapon spawns, map layout and player skill are the factors that turn the tide of the match conflict. Loadouts eliminate the need to control weapon spawns, which thereby decreases the need to acquire mastery of map layout, which subsequently narrows skill gap.
>
> I would be ok with it in modes that make sense, such as firefight.

Loadouts do not make a game class based. A class based shooter has distinct roles that must work together to accomplish a task. A example is the medic heavy combo from Team Fortress 2. The Medic has a low damage output and low health, but he can heal players. The heavy has high health and high damage but is a big target and very slow. The combo is composed of two very different roles that complement each other. Battlefield is a class based shooter, Halo is not. Why does it matter so much if another person spawns with an AR vs a your BR?

> > The problem with loadouts is that it pushes Halo away from the realm of Arena Shooter’s and into the realm of Class Based shooters. A game can’t be both. Arena shooters are types of games that put equal opposing forces against one another, where knowledge of weapon spawns, map layout and player skill are the factors that turn the tide of the match conflict. Loadouts eliminate the need to control weapon spawns, which thereby decreases the need to acquire mastery of map layout, which subsequently narrows skill gap.
> >
> > I would be ok with it in modes that make sense, such as firefight.
>
> Loadouts do not make a game class based. A class based shooter has distinct roles that must work together to accomplish a task. A example is the medic heavy combo from Team Fortress 2. The Medic has a low damage output and low health, but he can heal players. The heavy has high health and high damage but is a big target and very slow. The combo is composed of two very different roles that complement each other. Battlefield is a class based shooter, Halo is not. <mark>Why does it matter so much if another person spawns with an AR vs a your BR?</mark>

Three words: Rock-Paper-Scissors

INSERTS ALTERNATE LOADOUT EXECUTION

About a month ago, with the contribution of several other members, I partially created the “Reduced Loadout System” that is easily one of the most popular potential fates of Personal Loadouts. While I think the one that the OP presented certainly showed promise, I can’t resist the urge to show mine:

Primary Weapons:

  • Halo CE era Assault Rifle
  • Storm Rifle (with the CE Plasma Rifle’s special abilities)
  • Battle Rifle (With Halo 3’s function)
  • Covenant Carbine (Also with Halo 3’s function)
    Secondary Weapons:
  • Magnum
  • “Needle Pistol” (Created by GHOST of MA1NE)
  • Halo 3 era SMG
  • Halo 3 era Plasma Rifle

While many would say that Loadouts add a “rock-paper-scissors” effect to gameplay, those people are wrong.

Ever since the beginning of Halo, the functions of weapons have been divided into specific niches that each contribute an important role to gameplay. In Personal Loadouts, there are 4 niches offered to the player. These niches include the following:

  • Primary Automatic (AR, SR)
  • Primary Mid-Range Precision (BR, CC)
  • Secondary Automatic (SMG, PR)
  • Secondary Mid-Range Precision (Magnum, NP)

Each weapon works best in their specific niche, and each weapon will be out-preformed outside of their niche by weapons that excel in that niche. However, there are ways for a specific weapon to win outside of its niche. At close range, the Assault Rifle will beat the Battle Rifle in most cases, but the Battle Rifle’s 2 bursts + melee combo can be a gamechanger. The Battle Rifle will beat the Assault Rifle a mid-range, but the AR user can use short-controlled-bursts to even the odds.

The “rock-paper-scissors” element is not only shattered from the niche dominance procedure, as the next step in removing it involves the secondary weapons. Each loadout niche is made of a Primary and a Secondary version of it. Within the niche, the primary weapons will beat out the secondary, but the sole purpose of the secondary is to allow the primary weapons that’s outside of its niche to have a backup.

If you have a Carbine equipped and you find yourself in an enclosed space with an AR-wielding opponent speeding towards you, having a Plasma Rifle or an SMG as your secondary weapon could potentially win the fight should your opponent get too close for comfort.

Also, if you, a Storm Rifle user, were to find yourself facing a Battle Rifle at mid range, having a Needle Pistol could potentially finish off your opponent with a satisfying supercombine.

Overall, your ability to win a fight is not only decided by skills such as strafe, aim, and control, but it’s also heralded by your ability to handle a given situation and how well you know your weapon, your niches, and your map.

This isn’t “rock-paper-scissors”, this is strategy.

With an improved UI, the loadout issue could be solved very easily. Before a match starts, there would be a drop down menu for each class of primary: Precision and Automatic. If balanced, all primaries from Halo 4 could return, along with more (Spiker, SMG, etc. Maybe those could be under a different class). After selecting your preferred primary, you’d be dropped into the game with two Frags and a Magnum. Skins could be assigned to each weapon outside of the game and would work universally. As for Armor Abilities, if they do not become some sort of pick up, then a system similar to Reach’s should take effect, as in certain Armor Abilities are provided depending on the maps. Perks should be done away with competitively, but could return via Ordnance Drop in Infinity (a Social playlist). This solves the problems revolving around the Boltshot, Plasma Pistol, and Plasma Grenades. It also allows more weapon skins to be added.

> INSERTS ALTERNATE LOADOUT EXECUTION
>
> Primary Weapons:
> - Halo CE era Assault Rifle
> - Storm Rifle (with the CE Plasma Rifle’s special abilities)
> - Battle Rifle (With Halo 3’s function)
> - Covenant Carbine (Also with Halo 3’s function)
> Secondary Weapons:
> - Magnum
> - “Needle Pistol” (Created by GHOST of MA1NE)
> - Halo 3 era SMG
> - Halo 3 era Plasma Rifle
>
> [/li][/list]

*CE AR? Sure.
*Storm Rifle with CE mechanics? I guess though I would prefer it to go the ODST SMG route.
*H3 BR? Ditch the Spread for predictable recoil and we are set.
*H3 Carbine? Same answer as the BR though I would prefer the Needle Rifle as it has a different niche compared to the BR/CC though not quite as long range as the DMR/LR

If you want a diverse set of primary weapons than fine, with such a limited selection it would make it pointless to have a separate menu like Halo 4 and it would make more sense to keep it an in game menu ala Reach.

Just stop with the secondaries. What is the point of having two worse versions of the CE AR(H2/H3 SMG/PR) and two inferior precision weapons(the Magnum and “Needle Pistol”)?

Creating a subclass of weapons that are only useful as “backup” is a terrible way to design a arena shooter sandbox. The plasma pistol and boltshot work fine as weapons in their own right, I don’t want to see weapons like the PR or Magnum return if they are going to be nothing but shadows of their former selves.

BEST SOLUTION FOR LOAD OUTS EVER!

keep load outs exactly the same as halo 4 except everyone always spawns with out weapons so that you have to book it to weapon drop point or pick up guns off of corpses

this would make sprint and abilities a life line instead of a crutch

oh and map tactics and other pro/elitist jargon and propaganda

> INSERTS ALTERNATE LOADOUT EXECUTION
>
> About a month ago, with the contribution of several other members, I partially created the “Reduced Loadout System” that is easily one of the most popular potential fates of Personal Loadouts. While I think the one that the OP presented certainly showed promise, I can’t resist the urge to show mine:
>
> Primary Weapons:
> - Halo CE era Assault Rifle
> - Storm Rifle (with the CE Plasma Rifle’s special abilities)
> - Battle Rifle (With Halo 3’s function)
> - Covenant Carbine (Also with Halo 3’s function)
> Secondary Weapons:
> - Magnum
> - “Needle Pistol” (Created by GHOST of MA1NE)
> - Halo 3 era SMG
> - Halo 3 era Plasma Rifle
>
> While many would say that Loadouts add a “rock-paper-scissors” effect to gameplay, those people are wrong.
>
> Ever since the beginning of Halo, the functions of weapons have been divided into specific niches that each contribute an important role to gameplay. In Personal Loadouts, there are 4 niches offered to the player. These niches include the following:
> - Primary Automatic (AR, SR)
> - Primary Mid-Range Precision (BR, CC)
> - Secondary Automatic (SMG, PR)
> - Secondary Mid-Range Precision (Magnum, NP)
>
> Each weapon works best in their specific niche, and each weapon will be out-preformed outside of their niche by weapons that excel in that niche. However, there are ways for a specific weapon to win outside of its niche. At close range, the Assault Rifle will beat the Battle Rifle in most cases, but the Battle Rifle’s 2 bursts + melee combo can be a gamechanger. The Battle Rifle will beat the Assault Rifle a mid-range, but the AR user can use short-controlled-bursts to even the odds.
>
> The “rock-paper-scissors” element is not only shattered from the niche dominance procedure, as the next step in removing it involves the secondary weapons. Each loadout niche is made of a Primary and a Secondary version of it. Within the niche, the primary weapons will beat out the secondary, but the sole purpose of the secondary is to allow the primary weapons that’s outside of its niche to have a backup.
>
> If you have a Carbine equipped and you find yourself in an enclosed space with an AR-wielding opponent speeding towards you, having a Plasma Rifle or an SMG as your secondary weapon could potentially win the fight should your opponent get too close for comfort.
>
> Also, if you, a Storm Rifle user, were to find yourself facing a Battle Rifle at mid range, having a Needle Pistol could potentially finish off your opponent with a satisfying supercombine.
>
> Overall, your ability to win a fight is not only decided by skills such as strafe, aim, and control, but it’s also heralded by your ability to handle a given situation and how well you know your weapon, your niches, and your map.
>
> This isn’t “rock-paper-scissors”, this is strategy.

I completely agree with Andycu5.

His loadout system in IMO is much better and simpler