A return to competitive Halo!?

I will be the first to admit I was skeptical of the Multiplayer aspect of Halo 4 and with good reason. But now, with a bunch of former Pro players on the team I feel better about the direction Halo Multiplayer is going. What do you guys want to see so Competitive Halo will make a come back.

I want de-scope and some sort of caster friendly spectators mode with the ability to directly stream like in Bo2 but more Halo-esque plus a lot more but the list would be to long.

Yeah i was excited to learn 343 hired some pros. i do have a little bit more faith in halo 5.

I would like:

-Perks removed
-AA’s as map pick ups
-Flinch removed
-Ranking system on day 1
-half social half ranked playlists
-Loadouts removed
-assassination animations be able to turn off
-smaller more symmetrical maps
-Sprint removed
-Halo 2/3 style lobby interface
-Clan system like halo 2
-ordinance drops removed

thats all i can think of right now, if i think of more ill post them.

I’m curious how much say they have in the games mechanics. I remain skeptical until I see anything to prove me wrong.

Pro players are not level designers. They are not gameplay designers. They are not multiplayer designers. Etc. I prefer they actually hire people with professional and competent knowledge in these various fields rather than a bunch of college kids to give the thumbs up or down based on their personal preference. But at least it is a better road than for them to keep working to fix something they clearly don’t understand or can’t even comprehend so w/e.

> I’m curious how much say they have in the games mechanics. I remain skeptical until I see anything to prove me wrong.

Exactly, just because 343 hired a few “pro” gamers, doesn’t mean that automatically means that Halo 5: Guardians will be the “return of competitive Halo”.
Assuming something almost always results in disappointment.

Halo has always and will always be competitive…

> Halo has always and will always be competitive…

It depends on how you define competitive.

Halo has always been competitive, but I wouldn’t say Halo 4 was competitive at all… notice how Halo has been dropped from the MLG circuit. I use to classify myself as a competitive Halo player but have not been able to keep it up due to the fact that Halo 4 never felt like a challenge in the sense that every game offered me a risk/reward. In competitive Halo 3 playlists, I was at the age of my seat stressing out about my performance hoping I wold do well enough to rank up and now down. By the end of a game after I succeeded, I was rewarded by ranking up and it provided me with a great feeling. Whenever I ranked down, I was upset and then continued playing to try and reverse what just happened. I was emotionally invested in my gameplay to the point where it was kind of like gambling. I kept thinking to myself, “just one more game, just one more game!” in hopes to increase my winnings. Mind you, there is no house advantage like there is in gambling, but I had to rely on my own abilities to increase my winnings.

With Halo 4, there was no emotional investment. Each game was entirely independent of each each other and my outcomes had no effect on my mood or my drive to do better. A lot of people wan 1-50 back to provide them with the feelings i described earlier, while I’m sure there could be another system that provides the same rush, I don’t feel Halo 4 was able to do so.

Thats how I define competitive.

You’re right, level1 on hard. They aren’t level designers or anything of the sort. The thing is, they don’t need to be. That’s not why they were hired. They’re there to make sure halo 5 and future titles meet a certain standard that pro gamers except from the series

> Yeah i was excited to learn 343 hired some pros. i do have a little bit more faith in halo 5.
>
> I would like:
>
> -Perks removed
> -AA’s as map pick ups
> -Flinch removed
> -Ranking system on day 1
> -half social half ranked playlists
> -Loadouts removed
> <mark>-assassination animations be able to turn off</mark>
> -smaller more symmetrical maps
> -Sprint removed
> -Halo 2/3 style lobby interface
> -Clan system like halo 2
> -ordinance drops removed
>
> thats all i can think of right now, if i think of more ill post them.

Just wondering what you mean about Assassination Animations turned off? Do you mean so you don’t do Assassinations, because if you just tap melee you just do a beat down.

> You’re right, level1 on hard. They aren’t level designers or anything of the sort. The thing is, they don’t need to be. That’s not why they were hired. They’re there to make sure halo 5 and future titles meet a certain standard that pro gamers except from the series

This.

I am sure the designers at 343 thought that loadouts would be fair, since after the unlocks, everyone has equal flexibility in designing them. I am sure they thought POD would be fair, since the odds of getting any particular weapon was equal for everyone (except for that re-roll perk, but since everyone has equal access to that . . . ).

In theory, these things are fair. But only over the long-run . . . not in an individual match or even on a given night. They were missing the pro gamers input to let them know that these things would not be perceived as fair because they can affect the outcome of an individual match. It doesn’t matter that it evens out over many matches . . . it matters that it does not in a given match.

Just having the pro gamers design the game, however, likely ensures that it remains locked in the past. Both are necessary. One was missing for H4. Since H5 has both, I am more positive that it will will be better.

> > Yeah i was excited to learn 343 hired some pros. i do have a little bit more faith in halo 5.
> >
> > I would like:
> >
> > -Perks removed
> > -AA’s as map pick ups
> > -Flinch removed
> > -Ranking system on day 1
> > -half social half ranked playlists
> > -Loadouts removed
> > <mark>-assassination animations be able to turn off</mark>
> > -smaller more symmetrical maps
> > -Sprint removed
> > -Halo 2/3 style lobby interface
> > -Clan system like halo 2
> > -ordinance drops removed
> >
> > thats all i can think of right now, if i think of more ill post them.
>
> Just wondering what you mean about Assassination Animations turned off? Do you mean so you don’t do Assassinations, because if you just tap melee you just do a beat down.

Just a melee to the back will result in an instant kill like halo 1/2/3 did.

If i accidentally hold melee and go into an animation of me tackling and killing the player with the knife or something i become a target because i cannot control my player for a good maybe 2 seconds. so if i could turn it off that would be cool, it wouldn’t affect game play either.

> > > Yeah i was excited to learn 343 hired some pros. i do have a little bit more faith in halo 5.
> > >
> > > I would like:
> > >
> > > -Perks removed
> > > -AA’s as map pick ups
> > > -Flinch removed
> > > -Ranking system on day 1
> > > -half social half ranked playlists
> > > -Loadouts removed
> > > <mark>-assassination animations be able to turn off</mark>
> > > -smaller more symmetrical maps
> > > -Sprint removed
> > > -Halo 2/3 style lobby interface
> > > -Clan system like halo 2
> > > -ordinance drops removed
> > >
> > > thats all i can think of right now, if i think of more ill post them.
> >
> > Just wondering what you mean about Assassination Animations turned off? Do you mean so you don’t do Assassinations, because if you just tap melee you just do a beat down.
>
> Just a melee to the back will result in an instant kill like halo 1/2/3 did.
>
> If i accidentally hold melee and go into an animation of me tackling and killing the player with the knife or something i become a target because i cannot control my player for a good maybe 2 seconds. so if i could turn it off that would be cool, it wouldn’t affect game play either.

I like that idea. I do remember accidentally going into some Assassination Animations in some less than opportune times.

> Yeah i was excited to learn 343 hired some pros. i do have a little bit more faith in halo 5.
>
> I would like:
>
> -Perks removed
> -AA’s as map pick ups
> -Flinch removed
> -Ranking system on day 1
> -half social half ranked playlists
> -Loadouts removed
> -assassination animations be able to turn off
> -smaller more symmetrical maps
> -Sprint removed
> -Halo 2/3 style lobby interface
> -Clan system like halo 2
> -ordinance drops removed
>
> thats all i can think of right now, if i think of more ill post them.

Great list. If 343 does this, Halo 5 (and Halo 2014) MM will be amazing.

Where’s the list of people they’ve brought onboard to help with H5?

~ Duck.

Designing a good Halo map isn’t learned in videogame school; it’s learned through many hours of experience playing Halo.
I honestly feel that the MLG vets could do some things better than straight-up video game designers.

You have professionals for every aspect of the game.
You have musicians who compose and perform the music.
You have weapons specialists who ensure the weapons make sense.
You have voice actors who provide the voice acting.
And you should have professional Halo players who balance the game and design maps/certain mechanics, not just test things.

These people collectively make a game studio.

> > Halo has always and will always be competitive…
>
> It depends on how you define competitive.

The idea of competitive gameplay is EXTREMELY Opinionated.
And some of the “This is what competitive gameplay requires” opinions just flat out make no sense to me.

Also, my idea of competitive gameplay, is Halo CE, no ranks, no stats other than post game, which last for a few seconds, and/or until you hit enter or something, then those stats are forever gone, unless someone takes a screenshot, and/or can remember the stats, but no one gave a crap, all that mattered was who won that match, and that they was having universal fun.

> Yeah i was excited to learn 343 hired some pros. i do have a little bit more faith in halo 5.
>
> I would like:
>
> -Perks removed
> <mark>-AA’s as map pick ups</mark>
> -Flinch removed
> -Ranking system on day 1
> -half social half ranked playlists
> <mark>-Loadouts removed</mark>
> -assassination animations be able to turn off
> -smaller more symmetrical maps
> <mark>-Sprint removed</mark>
> -Halo 2/3 style lobby interface
> -Clan system like halo 2
> -ordinance drops removed
>
> thats all i can think of right now, if i think of more ill post them.

Keep dreaming. Those things are most likely here to stay; but as long as 343i balances them out, I’ll have no problems.

Ordnance is the one thing that needs to go, period. Allowing players to call down power weapons whenever they want, +removing weapons-on-map, was taking it way too far.

I don’t care too much if Loadouts and AAs are removed from Ranked (I prefer Social anyway), but I want them in Social as well as Firefight.

Sprint was well-balanced in Halo 4 with the ability to slow down a player by shooting at him; I see no problem with it.

One thing you forgot that does need to be removed; Instant Respawn. It was such a game-breaker in Halo 4, I can’t tell you how many times I’ve had people spawn right behind me because of it.

> Pro players are not level designers. They are not gameplay designers. They are not multiplayer designers. Etc. I prefer they actually hire people with professional and competent knowledge in these various fields rather than a bunch of college kids to give the thumbs up or down based on their personal preference. But at least it is a better road than for them to keep working to fix something they clearly don’t understand or can’t even comprehend so w/e.

and that is exactly why they need them. Players who can push the bounds and limits of said maps/weapons/gameplay to barrier and past.

Level designers and coders are not the ones who are in the trenches actually playing the game day in and day out. It’s the testers and pro players who find the exploits, find the unbalanced issues, and make the maps good for solid competitive play and yes, even for the casual crowd so they too can have a fun time. If you have never actually been in a game studio as a tester/hired because you are good at a specific type of game then you’ll find out it’s a lot different than what the average person thinks. It’s very different from just ‘playing games and complaining about it’. They are an integral part of the 343 team.

> Where’s the list of people they’ve brought onboard to help with H5?

Gh057ayame, Neighbor, and Dersky. All MLG players. All of this information is in the bulletins, btw.

> > Where’s the list of people they’ve brought onboard to help with H5?
>
> Gh057ayame, Neighbor, and Dersky. All MLG players. All of this information is in the bulletins, btw.

Other relevant hires for this thread:

Andy Dudynsky (Bravo, MLG pro)
Josh Menke (Ladder and Match-making Designer @ Blizzard)
Quinn DelHoyo (multiplayer designer for Gears of War)
Tim Longo (LucasArts Republic Commando & Tomb Raider reboot)

Also here is probably the best staff list I have seen so far.