So I was watching an episode of the know, when the host Ashley said this: [Timestamped Link]
Really would be nice if they’d take this logic, and just ya know, use it? Because it’s 100% true
I couldn’t agree more.
I buy sequels because I enjoyed what I played the first time, and I want more of it. If I want something that feels like a different game, I’d go buy a different game.
First, I’ll transcribe what was said so you don’t have to watch the video.
> All you had to do was take what was fun about the first game and make it better and add more content.
I agree with the sentiment. Though, how do you, as a developer know what “improving the formula” is? You can absolutely see where 343 could see how adding Thrusters and Ground Pound would add to the experience. Bungie could see how adding Equimpment in Halo 3 then evolving that idea for Reach would add to the experience. You can only say whether or not those things added to the game in hindsight. Given 10 years of retrospect, you can see how adding equipment in Halo 3 was a bad idea because of how it affected the gameplay of 3 and the direction of the series as a whole. At the time, it may seem fine, but you have all of that experience to say that didn’t work. What I’m saying is, it’s easy to say that as a fan after a game is released and when you have a fan base as wide and varied as fandoms tend to be. Developers can get tunnel visioned because of the smaller groups involved.
That said, 343 absolutely needs to do this better. I get not knowing what made Halo fun for Halo 4. It was their first game and they’d never made a Halo game before. They just don’t have the experience in Halo development. You can make a case, that they took the things players didn’t like in armor abilities and loudouts from 4 and expanded on it. They didn’t realize that it isn’t all this extra crap that makes Halo Halo, it’s the gunplay. They did improve Halo 5 by going back to even starts, but they didn’t go far enough in the right direction. 343 needs to get better at figuring out what makes, not only their Halo games good, but also Bungie’s Halo games good and expand on that if they want to bring Halo back to somewhere resembling where the franchise was in the Halo 3 days.
like Willko I also couldn’t agree more
While I don’t hate 343’s new formula (Halo 5 is a fun game), I feel that they should take an approach similar as the one Bethesda and The Coalition are doing with Gears of War and Doom. Both companies respect the original formulas of those games and make games to appease fans of those games, not fans of other games. You don’t have to change up your game to resemble COD to draw in more players. An example of this is Halo CE through 3. Those games used the same formula for each one and had higher sales and populations than the last. If 343 wants to continue using their formula, they should at least put in classic mechanics playlists to cater to classic Halo fans as well as the new ones.
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> While I don’t hate 343’s new formula (Halo 5 is a fun game), I feel that they should take an approach similar as the one Bethesda and The Coalition are doing with Gears of War and Doom. Both companies respect the original formulas of those games and make games to appease fans of those games, not fans of other games. You don’t have to change up your game to resemble COD to draw in more players. An example of this is Halo CE through 3. Those games used the same formula for each one and had higher sales and populations than the last. If 343 wants to continue using their formula, they should at least put in classic mechanics playlists to cater to classic Halo fans as well as the new ones.
It is something that always confused me about 343. Why try appeal to another audience when you have a huge pre-existing one eagerly awaiting another one of their favorite titles?
> 2533274855768280;6:
> > 2533274976975090;5:
> > While I don’t hate 343’s new formula (Halo 5 is a fun game), I feel that they should take an approach similar as the one Bethesda and The Coalition are doing with Gears of War and Doom. Both companies respect the original formulas of those games and make games to appease fans of those games, not fans of other games. You don’t have to change up your game to resemble COD to draw in more players. An example of this is Halo CE through 3. Those games used the same formula for each one and had higher sales and populations than the last. If 343 wants to continue using their formula, they should at least put in classic mechanics playlists to cater to classic Halo fans as well as the new ones.
>
>
> It is something that always confused me about 343. Why try appeal to another audience when you have a huge pre-existing one eagerly awaiting another one of their favorite titles?
Its probably due to the existing audience not being as large as Microsoft want. I know people use the competition argument a lot but there is an element of truth to it.
As I’ve said before , if the mechanics are solid and match making is balanced , innovation is the last thing most fans are thinking about. We really just want new maps and better graphics (for the most part , I understand that some people just can’t help but imagine the next iteration).
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> > 2533274855768280;6:
> > > 2533274976975090;5:
> > > While I don’t hate 343’s new formula (Halo 5 is a fun game), I feel that they should take an approach similar as the one Bethesda and The Coalition are doing with Gears of War and Doom. Both companies respect the original formulas of those games and make games to appease fans of those games, not fans of other games. You don’t have to change up your game to resemble COD to draw in more players. An example of this is Halo CE through 3. Those games used the same formula for each one and had higher sales and populations than the last. If 343 wants to continue using their formula, they should at least put in classic mechanics playlists to cater to classic Halo fans as well as the new ones.
> >
> >
> > It is something that always confused me about 343. Why try appeal to another audience when you have a huge pre-existing one eagerly awaiting another one of their favorite titles?
>
>
> Its probably due to the existing audience not being as large as Microsoft want. I know people use the competition argument a lot but there is an element of truth to it.
The competition thing is primarily BS, Halo never struggled with it before. Though the Xbox One is inherently less popular than the 360 so that’s likely a large part of it.
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> > 2533274826317859;7:
> > > 2533274855768280;6:
> > > > 2533274976975090;5:
> > > > While I don’t hate 343’s new formula (Halo 5 is a fun game), I feel that they should take an approach similar as the one Bethesda and The Coalition are doing with Gears of War and Doom. Both companies respect the original formulas of those games and make games to appease fans of those games, not fans of other games. You don’t have to change up your game to resemble COD to draw in more players. An example of this is Halo CE through 3. Those games used the same formula for each one and had higher sales and populations than the last. If 343 wants to continue using their formula, they should at least put in classic mechanics playlists to cater to classic Halo fans as well as the new ones.
> > >
> > >
> > > It is something that always confused me about 343. Why try appeal to another audience when you have a huge pre-existing one eagerly awaiting another one of their favorite titles?
> >
> >
> > Its probably due to the existing audience not being as large as Microsoft want. I know people use the competition argument a lot but there is an element of truth to it.
>
>
> The competition thing is primarily BS, Halo never struggled with it before. Though the Xbox One is inherently less popular than the 360 so that’s likely a large part of it.
I’m fine if Halo doesn’t reach the population of COD because its multi platform and has an inherent advantage, but it should at least be in the top ten for its own damn console. It is(or was) the flagship franchise for the xbox after all.
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> > 2533274826317859;7:
> > > 2533274855768280;6:
> > > > 2533274976975090;5:
> > > > While I don’t hate 343’s new formula (Halo 5 is a fun game), I feel that they should take an approach similar as the one Bethesda and The Coalition are doing with Gears of War and Doom. Both companies respect the original formulas of those games and make games to appease fans of those games, not fans of other games. You don’t have to change up your game to resemble COD to draw in more players. An example of this is Halo CE through 3. Those games used the same formula for each one and had higher sales and populations than the last. If 343 wants to continue using their formula, they should at least put in classic mechanics playlists to cater to classic Halo fans as well as the new ones.
> > >
> > >
> > > It is something that always confused me about 343. Why try appeal to another audience when you have a huge pre-existing one eagerly awaiting another one of their favorite titles?
> >
> >
> > Its probably due to the existing audience not being as large as Microsoft want. I know people use the competition argument a lot but there is an element of truth to it.
>
>
> The competition thing is primarily BS, Halo never struggled with it before. Though the Xbox One is inherently less popular than the 360 so that’s likely a large part of it.
To be honest I kinda buy the competition thing due to my experience. Pre Cod 4 everyone on my friends list was playing halo, after cod 4 50/50. Come halo reach, most of my mates got it and then immediately dropped it for Black Ops.
Maybe that’s just my experience but to me Halo started it decline after Halo 3 due to a disregard for equal starts/arena play and the added competition presented by the Juggernaut COD became.
On another note look what I just got.
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> > 2533274855768280;9:
> > > 2533274826317859;7:
> > > > 2533274855768280;6:
> > > > > 2533274976975090;5:
> > > > > While I don’t hate 343’s new formula (Halo 5 is a fun game), I feel that they should take an approach similar as the one Bethesda and The Coalition are doing with Gears of War and Doom. Both companies respect the original formulas of those games and make games to appease fans of those games, not fans of other games. You don’t have to change up your game to resemble COD to draw in more players. An example of this is Halo CE through 3. Those games used the same formula for each one and had higher sales and populations than the last. If 343 wants to continue using their formula, they should at least put in classic mechanics playlists to cater to classic Halo fans as well as the new ones.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > It is something that always confused me about 343. Why try appeal to another audience when you have a huge pre-existing one eagerly awaiting another one of their favorite titles?
> > >
> > >
> > > Its probably due to the existing audience not being as large as Microsoft want. I know people use the competition argument a lot but there is an element of truth to it.
> >
> >
> > The competition thing is primarily BS, Halo never struggled with it before. Though the Xbox One is inherently less popular than the 360 so that’s likely a large part of it.
>
>
> To be honest I kinda buy the competition thing due to my experience. Pre Cod 4 everyone on my friends list was playing halo, after cod 4 50/50. Come halo reach, most of my mates got it and then immediately dropped it for Black Ops.
>
> Maybe that’s just my experience but to me Halo started it decline after Halo 3 due to a disregard for equal starts/arena play and the added competition presented by the Juggernaut COD became.
I understand Black ops was good , but was it so different from other CoD games that if Reach had been a true to form Halo game would it have drawn so many away? I think the mechanics of Reach had just as much to do with it. They were still playing Halo 3 instead of CoD 4? Some differences in mp between BO and 4 but nothing overwhelming. However there are major differences in H3 and Reach just in movement mechanics.
Correlation is not causation , but this is more than coincidence.
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> > 2533274826317859;11:
> > > 2533274855768280;9:
> > > > 2533274826317859;7:
> > > > > 2533274855768280;6:
> > > > > > 2533274976975090;5:
> > > > > > While I don’t hate 343’s new formula (Halo 5 is a fun game), I feel that they should take an approach similar as the one Bethesda and The Coalition are doing with Gears of War and Doom. Both companies respect the original formulas of those games and make games to appease fans of those games, not fans of other games. You don’t have to change up your game to resemble COD to draw in more players. An example of this is Halo CE through 3. Those games used the same formula for each one and had higher sales and populations than the last. If 343 wants to continue using their formula, they should at least put in classic mechanics playlists to cater to classic Halo fans as well as the new ones.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > It is something that always confused me about 343. Why try appeal to another audience when you have a huge pre-existing one eagerly awaiting another one of their favorite titles?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Its probably due to the existing audience not being as large as Microsoft want. I know people use the competition argument a lot but there is an element of truth to it.
> > >
> > >
> > > The competition thing is primarily BS, Halo never struggled with it before. Though the Xbox One is inherently less popular than the 360 so that’s likely a large part of it.
> >
> >
> > To be honest I kinda buy the competition thing due to my experience. Pre Cod 4 everyone on my friends list was playing halo, after cod 4 50/50. Come halo reach, most of my mates got it and then immediately dropped it for Black Ops.
> >
> > Maybe that’s just my experience but to me Halo started it decline after Halo 3 due to a disregard for equal starts/arena play and the added competition presented by the Juggernaut COD became.
>
>
> I understand Black ops was good , but was it so different from other CoD games that if Reach had been a true to form Halo game would it have drawn so many away? I think the mechanics of Reach had just as much to do with it. They were still playing Halo 3 instead of CoD 4? Some differences in mp between BO and 4 but nothing overwhelming. However there are major differences in H3 and Reach just in movement mechanics.
> Correlation is not causation , but this is more than coincidence.
As I said I’m only taking my experience so it might just be a one off.
The fact that Halo Reach disregarded a lot of things that IMO made halo, halo is what made me stop playing it so that’s definitely a consideration but even then we didn’t go back to Halo 3, I personally went back to MW2 and the majority of my mates Black Ops.
I’m not saying that Halos decline was completely due to competition but I do think that it played a part.
As for the actual OP, the problem is the halo community is a much broader spectrum than that of titanfall. Some expect sprint, others demand a competitive feel while some feel PvE is key. It suddenly becomes a lot more difficult to create a game that matches the feel of it predecessors when the past games offer differing experiences. This becomes doubly difficult when your a new studio taking over.
> 2533274855768280;6:
> > 2533274976975090;5:
> > While I don’t hate 343’s new formula (Halo 5 is a fun game), I feel that they should take an approach similar as the one Bethesda and The Coalition are doing with Gears of War and Doom. Both companies respect the original formulas of those games and make games to appease fans of those games, not fans of other games. You don’t have to change up your game to resemble COD to draw in more players. An example of this is Halo CE through 3. Those games used the same formula for each one and had higher sales and populations than the last. If 343 wants to continue using their formula, they should at least put in classic mechanics playlists to cater to classic Halo fans as well as the new ones.
>
>
> It is something that always confused me about 343. Why try appeal to another audience when you have a huge pre-existing one eagerly awaiting another one of their favorite titles?
343 wants to make as much money as possible (which I don’t blame them for), but they are messing up by not catering to classic Halo fans with classic playlists.
> 2533274976975090;14:
> > 2533274855768280;6:
> > > 2533274976975090;5:
> > > While I don’t hate 343’s new formula (Halo 5 is a fun game), I feel that they should take an approach similar as the one Bethesda and The Coalition are doing with Gears of War and Doom. Both companies respect the original formulas of those games and make games to appease fans of those games, not fans of other games. You don’t have to change up your game to resemble COD to draw in more players. An example of this is Halo CE through 3. Those games used the same formula for each one and had higher sales and populations than the last. If 343 wants to continue using their formula, they should at least put in classic mechanics playlists to cater to classic Halo fans as well as the new ones.
> >
> >
> > It is something that always confused me about 343. Why try appeal to another audience when you have a huge pre-existing one eagerly awaiting another one of their favorite titles?
>
>
> 343 wants to make as much money as possible (which I don’t blame them for), but they are messing up by not catering to classic Halo fans with classic playlists.
That’s the funny part. By not catering to the classic fans, and by neglecting that audience, they’re using tonnes of money. Halo 5 is the worst selling in the franchise for a good number of reasons.
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> > 2533274976975090;14:
> > > 2533274855768280;6:
> > > > 2533274976975090;5:
> > > > While I don’t hate 343’s new formula (Halo 5 is a fun game), I feel that they should take an approach similar as the one Bethesda and The Coalition are doing with Gears of War and Doom. Both companies respect the original formulas of those games and make games to appease fans of those games, not fans of other games. You don’t have to change up your game to resemble COD to draw in more players. An example of this is Halo CE through 3. Those games used the same formula for each one and had higher sales and populations than the last. If 343 wants to continue using their formula, they should at least put in classic mechanics playlists to cater to classic Halo fans as well as the new ones.
> > >
> > >
> > > It is something that always confused me about 343. Why try appeal to another audience when you have a huge pre-existing one eagerly awaiting another one of their favorite titles?
> >
> >
> > 343 wants to make as much money as possible (which I don’t blame them for), but they are messing up by not catering to classic Halo fans with classic playlists.
>
>
> That’s the funny part. By not catering to the classic fans, and by neglecting that audience, they’re using tonnes of money. Halo 5 is the worst selling in the franchise for a good number of reasons.
Completely agree. How hard would it be to make a classic versions of the game modes? Everyone and their dog has done it in custom games.
> 2533274794312469;3:
> First, I’ll transcribe what was said so you don’t have to watch the video.
>
>
> > All you had to do was take what was fun about the first game and make it better and add more content.
>
>
> I agree with the sentiment. Though, how do you, as a developer know what “improving the formula” is? You can absolutely see where 343 could see how adding Thrusters and Ground Pound would add to the experience. Bungie could see how adding Equimpment in Halo 3 then evolving that idea for Reach would add to the experience. You can only say whether or not those things added to the game in hindsight. Given 10 years of retrospect, you can see how adding equipment in Halo 3 was a bad idea because of how it affected the gameplay of 3 and the direction of the series as a whole. At the time, it may seem fine, but you have all of that experience to say that didn’t work. What I’m saying is, it’s easy to say that as a fan after a game is released and when you have a fan base as wide and varied as fandoms tend to be. Developers can get tunnel visioned because of the smaller groups involved.
> That said, 343 absolutely needs to do this better. I get not knowing what made Halo fun for Halo 4. It was their first game and they’d never made a Halo game before. They just don’t have the experience in Halo development. You can make a case, that they took the things players didn’t like in armor abilities and loudouts from 4 and expanded on it. They didn’t realize that it isn’t all this extra crap that makes Halo Halo, it’s the gunplay. They did improve Halo 5 by going back to even starts, but they didn’t go far enough in the right direction. 343 needs to get better at figuring out what makes, not only their Halo games good, but also Bungie’s Halo games good and expand on that if they want to bring Halo back to somewhere resembling where the franchise was in the Halo 3 days.
Your logic is sound, and I wish more people would look at it that way. I wholeheartedly agree. However, I do like the abilities, I think they add a lot.