A question about the spartan armor, and continuity

Games Halo Infinite
1

Ok, this is the question. From what we have been able to see, the new armor is a version similar to the militarized armor of Halo Reach. These versions of Spartan armor will not have, as far as we know, the Spartan Thruster, the hit sky, or the hit running.

So understanding it this way, it could be said that these armor are less modern than the armor currently worn by Spartan IVs. Much more futuristic armor, not only aesthetically, but also in what is explained in the lore for its features, components, functionalities, etc.

So my question is the following. How will lore explain this shift in technology backwards?

As a lover of the Halo lore, I thinking about these kinds of details.I like to think about motives or reasons that make that continuity exist, or that narrative coherence within its universe, making it a “realistic” or “plausible” universe.

For example, I want to think in this case that this type of armor was exclusively for the Spartans IV destined for the INFINITE. The Infinite is the most technologically advanced human ship in many ways. I would therefore understand that it had the best military technology for its 300-400 Spartans destined for it.

That the Infinite does not appear for whatever reasons would explain not only that we saw less technologically advanced armor. But also that we saw the old UNSC logo, as well as the uniform of the land army, instead of the uniform of the Navy soldiers stationed in Infinity, as well as the more modern UNSC logo that we see in Infinity.

I see logical that only those marine uniforms would appear on the Infinite, as well as the UNSC logo seen in Halo 4 and 5. Since the UNSC army is so huge and spread out, it was simply impossible to update all the military uniforms and logos.

PS: I wanted to create a theme a little further from the topic. Deal with other topics that I consider really interesting for anyone who loves Halo lore.

2

> 2533274842428280;1:
> So my question is the following. How will lore explain this shift in technology backwards?

Nanobots.It’s very likely just going to be retconned, but a possibility is that new armour doesn’t work since Cortana started to EMP the galaxy, so we have to turn to old tech.

3

My best guess is Humanity is backpedaling and they can’t develop the armor to those standards after the guardian events

4

When you find the best explanation for this, it can probably be applied to why the H4 armors are in H3 now.

5

Chief and Blue Team are outfitted in GEN3 and I doubt Halsey would give them something less advanced than GEN2. Why it wouldn’t be able to do things like thrusters or some of the other advanced mobility features from 5 remains a mystery, but it can be chalked up to the same reason Spartans can’t dualwield anymore or pick up health packs, it’s just a gameplay change.

6

> 2533274812652989;5:
> Chief and Blue Team are outfitted in GEN3 and I doubt Halsey would give them something less advanced than GEN2. Why it wouldn’t be able to do things like thrusters or some of the other advanced mobility features from 5 remains a mystery, but it can be chalked up to the same reason Spartans can’t dualwield anymore or pick up health packs, it’s just a gameplay change.

yep, also based on the books there are a lot of improvements in gen 3. Its possible those improvements came at the cost of the “advanced mobility” features of gen 2. But generally its a gameplay first reason

7

Obviously, we all know that these changes are due to gameplay reasons. But, one thing that 343 is doing very well is creating justifications within the canon to maintain consistency in the lore.

I, as an absolute fan of Halo lore, is something that I really appreciate and value. And that’s why I like to talk about possible justifications or reasons for these changes at the narrative level.

8

The first thing that comes to mind to justify the downgrades are the UNSC are lacking resources and communications over the galaxy because of the Guardians, so they had to open up their basements and pick up old tech, which functions in a more analogical way. In theory this new master chief armor is more advanced than the Halo 5 one besides it lacking the advanced mobility package so I don’t know if there’s going to be a justification for this.

9

I could see them explaining it as spartans already have super human speed, they opted for more protection instead of things like thrusters. Just more useful to them.

10

According to the Spartan Field Guide (I’m pretty sure):

“Although the GEN2 armor meant a radical simplification of the Mjolnir platform, to the point it could be mass-produced, by October 2558 some operatives in the Spartan Operations branch were dissatisfied with its minimal performance improvement over the old GEN1 systems. With that reason in mind, the UNSC decided to develop and manufacture GEN2’s successor, the MJOLNIR Powered Assault Armor [GEN3].”

Meaning that despite the funky little thrusters and all that jazz it wasn’t that much of a step up from GEN 1. Understandable seeing as armor is armor and as long as it has energy shielding and all the other augmenting things the armor has like strength multiplication and sensors it’ll do a Spartan good. In-lore design philosophy shifted from the Reach-style function dictating form to armor looking like whatever and AIs and other helpers defining what an armor is good at, the 180 they did with design can be justified by that.

I also like what one user said about them cramming so much other stuff inside that they removed the thrusters as something they could afford to ditch.

11

> 2533274842428280;7:
> Obviously, we all know that these changes are due to gameplay reasons. But, one thing that 343 is doing very well is creating justifications within the canon to maintain consistency in the lore.

They do?

So why can Spartan-IIs suddenly no longer dual wield?
Why can they no longer shoot while running?
Why were they forced to use crude ironsights on their weapons instead of smart-link?
What was the canon reason for descope being replaced with flinch for one game (and even having an upgrade that completely nullifies it), then suddenly reverting back?

I have yet so see a single lore explanation for the myriads of gameplay changes 343 did in the last decade.

And for the record, Bungie actually did have explanations for (some of) these things: The addition of dual wielding was a software (and hardware?) upgrade in the MARK-VI. Spartan-IIIs and ODSTs are weaker than S-IIs, which is why they couldn’t wield two weapons or move and shoot at the same speeds as their big brothers and sisters. Sprint in Reach was a softpatch developed by Kat that disables the hydraulic safeties preventing S-III’s from moving at speeds deemed too dangerous for their physiology, at the cost of shooting.

12

So I say this is what happened:

Halsey designed Chief’s armor to be closer to his older models because the newer technology may be more advanced, and it may have more mobility, but it is less adaptive. (Note the lack of equipment and Reach-Style abilities in H5). Chief is used to adapting to his situation, rather than being given a few useful abilities that keep him from utilizing his surroundings. There may have also been some functional benefits to the older armor that kept Chief more protected and aware of his surroundings. (Note the crack Chief gets on his visor after a punch to the face, and in H2 and H3, not even a whack from a flood form took down Chief’s shields all the way). Overall, the armor probably gives Chief nostalgia, just like you and me, and that alone gets his blood pumping. We only can see how it looks and sounds, but to him, he can feel it and be inside it.
And then the UNSC fall to the Banished, and all of the advanced operations the UNSC had going on were put to a stop. So now, to armor the Spartans, the UNSC has to find any scattered debris they can to cover the Spartans. Maybe they had storage full of past armor models that were never used, as well as new ones, and all armor is needed and useful.

13

> 2533274801176260;11:
> > 2533274842428280;7:
> > Obviously, we all know that these changes are due to gameplay reasons. But, one thing that 343 is doing very well is creating justifications within the canon to maintain consistency in the lore.
>
> They do?
>
> So why can Spartan-IIs suddenly no longer dual wield?
> Why can they no longer shoot while running?
> Why were they forced to use crude ironsights on their weapons instead of smart-link?
> What was the canon reason for descope being replaced with flinch for one game (and even having an upgrade that completely nullifies it), then suddenly reverting back?
>
> I have yet so see a single lore explanation for the myriads of gameplay changes 343 did in the last decade.
>
> And for the record, Bungie actually did have explanations for (some of) these things: The addition of dual wielding was a software (and hardware?) upgrade in the MARK-VI. Spartan-IIIs and ODSTs are weaker than S-IIs, which is why they couldn’t wield two weapons or move and shoot at the same speeds as their big brothers and sisters. Sprint in Reach was a softpatch developed by Kat that disables the hydraulic safeties preventing S-III’s from moving at speeds deemed too dangerous for their physiology, at the cost of shooting.

*-So why can Spartan-IIs suddenly no longer dual wield?*Originally, the playable explanation is that classic MLG players were complaining to Bungie that dual weapons killed the combat triangle (grenade, shot, punch). So they ended up removing it unfortunately.

In the lore, the explanation is that the Spartans III, with whom we play in the campaign and multiplayer, do not have the same strength or the same aiming technology as the Spartans II.

In Halo 4, in multiplayer we play as Spartans IV, who are normal humans in armor. Therefore, there is still that lack of strength of a Spartan II super soldier. The fact that John was unable to use two weapons in the campaign was simply due to issues of not making functionality that could not have been reused in multiplayer.

*-Why can they no longer shoot while running?*You mean when a Spartan IV uses the sprint?

*- Why were they forced to use crude ironsights on their weapons instead of smart-link?*They literally keep using that smart connection for all views. The fact that Halo has been updated so that we aim using the sights does not indicate that it has been discontinued.

*-What was the canon reason for descope being replaced with flinch for one game (and even having an upgrade that completely nullifies it), then suddenly reverting back?*Sorry mate, I don’t know what you mean here.

  • *I have yet so see a single lore explanation for the myriads of gameplay changes 343 did in the last decade.*You complain about the changes you’ve made 343 in the last decade. But you don’t mention the changes made by Bungie herself that they never bothered to explain. Changes that you yourself mention as the issue of dual weapons and that you mistakenly attribute to 343.

For many years 343 Industries has brought us a long list of posts and compilations giving us more elaborate explanations of various details of the Halo lore. Information that can be reviewed right now on this website.

This is not a debatable opinion, it is a fact shown.

To be honest, I have a feeling that your comment is more of an unconstructive criticism of 343, than an opinion that debates Halo lore. You may have misinterpreted the tone of his message, if so, I apologize. But if this is going to turn into a debate about how “bad” 343 is and how “good” Bungie has always been, for my part the conversation ends here.

14

> 2533274842428280;13:
> In Halo 4, in multiplayer we play as Spartans IV, who are normal humans in armor. Therefore, there is still that lack of strength of a Spartan II super soldier. The fact that John was unable to use two weapons in the campaign was simply due to issues of not making functionality that could not have been reused in multiplayer.

Except that 343 stated numerous times that the Mjolnir Gen-2 gives S-IVs the same power that S-IIs have. So both of them should have been able to dual wield. I understand the game design reasons for this change, but once again, no lore explanation was given.

> 2533274842428280;13:
> *-Why can they no longer shoot while running?*You mean when a Spartan IV uses the sprint?

S-IV’s and S-II’s, yes.

> 2533274842428280;13:
> *- Why were they forced to use crude ironsights on their weapons instead of smart-link?*They literally keep using that smart connection for all views. The fact that Halo has been updated so that we aim using the sights does not indicate that it has been discontinued.

Smart-link is only used for information on the ammo counter, etc. In previous games, the camera attached to the weapon directly projected a visual feed onto the soldier’s HUD (Spartans, ODSTs, etc) telling them where the barrel was aiming. In H5G, Spartans are forced to literally aim through the physical sights of the guns, as evidenced by them raising the weapon to eyes’ height. No lore expalantion was given for this step backwards.

> 2533274842428280;13:
> *-What was the canon reason for descope being replaced with flinch for one game (and even having an upgrade that completely nullifies it), then suddenly reverting back?*Sorry mate, I don’t know what you mean here.

When shot while scoped, players get knocked out of scope. In-universe this was (presumably?) explained as a failsafe, to give the Spartan better peripheral vision when attacked while unaware. In Halo 4, zoom suddenly no longer did that, instead the weapon’s aim gets displaced when hit. In the next game, the mechanic reverted back to the original. No explanation whatsoever.

> 2533274842428280;13:
> You complain about the changes you’ve made 343 in the last decade. But you don’t mention the changes made by Bungie herself that they never bothered to explain. Changes that you yourself mention as the issue of dual weapons and that you mistakenly attribute to 343.

Did you even read my post? Bugie did explain the removal of dual-wielding in-universe as you played as characters that are not able to do this (ODSTs and S-III’s). 343, however, changed this for Chief and the other S-II’s as well as the new S-IV who - according to 343 themselves - have the same abilities as S-IIs.

> 2533274842428280;13:
> For many years 343 Industries has brought us a long list of posts and compilations giving us more elaborate explanations of various details of the Halo lore. Information that can be reviewed right now on this website.

…except for gameplay decisions. Which was what I was referring to.

> 2533274842428280;13:
> To be honest, I have a feeling that your comment is more of an unconstructive criticism of 343, than an opinion that debates Halo lore. You may have misinterpreted the tone of his message, if so, I apologize. But if this is going to turn into a debate about how “bad” 343 is and how “good” Bungie has always been, for my part the conversation ends here.

What this discussion turns into is up to you. I am of the opinion that 343 did a lot of bad in terms of lore, but they also did some good (although I feel the bad outweights the good by a large margin). However, this was not what my comment was about. Fact is, 343 have only ever come up with lore reasons for visual designs, never for the gameplay itself. As such I don’t see any reason why people assume they would now.

EDIT: Just to make it clear, I’m not even saying there has to be a canon explanation for gameplay changes. I’m perfectly fine with accepting the reason “because game”. I’m just pointing out, there never was a lore reason before, so why should there be now?

15

> 2533274801176260;14:
> > 2533274842428280;13:
> > In Halo 4, in multiplayer we play as Spartans IV, who are normal humans in armor. Therefore, there is still that lack of strength of a Spartan II super soldier. The fact that John was unable to use two weapons in the campaign was simply due to issues of not making functionality that could not have been reused in multiplayer.
>
> Except that 343 stated numerous times that the Mjolnir Gen-2 gives S-IVs the same power that S-IIs have. So both of them should have been able to dual wield. I understand the game design reasons for this change, but once again, no lore explanation was given.
>
>
>
>
> > 2533274842428280;13:
> > *-Why can they no longer shoot while running?*You mean when a Spartan IV uses the sprint?
>
> S-IV’s and S-II’s, yes.
>
>
>
>
> > 2533274842428280;13:
> > *- Why were they forced to use crude ironsights on their weapons instead of smart-link?*They literally keep using that smart connection for all views. The fact that Halo has been updated so that we aim using the sights does not indicate that it has been discontinued.
>
> Smart-link is only used for information on the ammo counter, etc. In previous games, the camera attached to the weapon directly projected a visual feed onto the soldier’s HUD (Spartans, ODSTs, etc) telling them where the barrel was aiming. In H5G, Spartans are forced to literally aim through the physical sights of the guns, as evidenced by them raising the weapon to eyes’ height. No lore expalantion was given for this step backwards.
>
>
>
>
> > 2533274842428280;13:
> > *-What was the canon reason for descope being replaced with flinch for one game (and even having an upgrade that completely nullifies it), then suddenly reverting back?*Sorry mate, I don’t know what you mean here.
>
> When shot while scoped, players get knocked out of scope. In-universe this was (presumably?) explained as a failsafe, to give the Spartan better peripheral vision when attacked while unaware. In Halo 4, zoom suddenly no longer did that, instead the weapon’s aim gets displaced when hit. In the next game, the mechanic reverted back to the original. No explanation whatsoever.
>
>
>
>
> > 2533274842428280;13:
> > You complain about the changes you’ve made 343 in the last decade. But you don’t mention the changes made by Bungie herself that they never bothered to explain. Changes that you yourself mention as the issue of dual weapons and that you mistakenly attribute to 343.
>
> Did you even read my post? Bugie did explain the removal of dual-wielding in-universe as you played as characters that are not able to do this (ODSTs and S-III’s). 343, however, changed this for Chief and the other S-II’s as well as the new S-IV who - according to 343 themselves - have the same abilities as S-IIs.
>
>
>
>
> > 2533274842428280;13:
> > For many years 343 Industries has brought us a long list of posts and compilations giving us more elaborate explanations of various details of the Halo lore. Information that can be reviewed right now on this website.
>
> …except for gameplay decisions. Which was what I was referring to.
>
>
>
>
> > 2533274842428280;13:
> > To be honest, I have a feeling that your comment is more of an unconstructive criticism of 343, than an opinion that debates Halo lore. You may have misinterpreted the tone of his message, if so, I apologize. But if this is going to turn into a debate about how “bad” 343 is and how “good” Bungie has always been, for my part the conversation ends here.
>
> What this discussion turns into is up to you. I am of the opinion that 343 did a lot of bad in terms of lore, but they also did some good (although I feel the bad outweights the good by a large margin). However, this was not what my comment was about. Fact is, 343 have only ever come up with lore reasons for visual designs, never for the gameplay itself. As such I don’t see any reason why people assume they would now.
>
> EDIT: Just to make it clear, I’m not even saying there has to be a canon explanation for gameplay changes. I’m perfectly fine with accepting the reason “because game”. I’m just pointing out, there never was a lore reason before, so why should there be now?

16

… Everything I had written has been erased.

17

There’s no retcon or anything like that. Thrusters are in all Mjolnir armor. Halo 5 was just the first time it was incorperated into gameplay. According to the Official Spartan Field Manual, it said that the Mjolnir Gen 2 armor didn’t meet the full expectations of some UNSC personnel. The Gen 3 armor is made as a result while using some “favorable” aspects of the Gen 1 like the better plating (hence the design change resembling the Gen 1 armor from Halo Reach). The number of Spartans aboard the Infinity ship and in the Spartan-IV program as a whole was updated and redacted after the ship was refitted (most likely to leave it to the player’s imagination). But considering Jamesone Locke was brought into the program years after the 2nd class started, it’s safe to assume the program is still “ongoing.”