A Post on Fairness

Games Other Halo
1

We’ll continue the discussion here:

Timing weapons and knowing where they spawn is unfair to new players, so 343 removed it.

Unlocking and purchasing weapons is unfair to new players, so 343 added it.

This makes no sense.

Below are my responses from that thread, and we can continue here.

> > > You knows what’s funny? Everyone says that this is taking away from the competitive aspect, when really it’s doing the opposite, now you actually have to FIGHT for the weapon.
> >
> > As many have said, you are now “fighting” for a weapon in the wrong sense of the word. Instead of Map Control, paying attention to the timer, and teamwork, you now have to get lucky and spam grenades into a concentrated area of the map. That’s not “fighting” for a weapon, that’s simply taking out competitive aspects and putting in grenade spam and a mad dash to that specific location (which, btw, is now easier since everyone comes equipped with sprint. Yay!).
> >
> >
> >
> > > Try to be more understanding, and think things through more. Just because your opinions differ from their’s doesn’t mean they’re “scumbags”. It’s highly immature of you to make a post such as this.
> >
> > The scumbag reference is simply an internet meme. I suggest you go here before further making yourself look like a fool. And don’t call me immature. I’m part of the select few who can actually make an argument on this forum, rather than say “Yea this looks fun!”
> >
> > P.S. Who should I be more understanding towards? The casual players? They are already getting the majority of the “understanding” from 343. I’m trying to save this game from becoming Halo: Reach 2.0
>
> Too bad you don’t really have an argument…

Yes I do. There is no longer any tactic to fighting over power weapons except blind rushing towards the weapon spawn. Every game is no a KOTH game, with people looking straight and only straight ahead. This argument is pretty evident if you simply read my post.

What’s your argument?

> The weapons spawns make the game more difficult rather then easy, but also more fun at the same time. You don’t have people rushing towards the Energy Sword like in Asylum, and it making a big difference in the outcome of the match.

Except for the fact that if everybody knows where the weapon is going to be in the next five seconds, they will blindly rush that location, chucking grenades as they go. With the automatically-equipped sprint ability, this is only more easy to do that it was in any other Halo game. Also, the rushes towards weapons in previoud titles only occurred at the start of the game, whereas now they will continue throughout the duration of every game.

2

There always has and always will be blind rushing towards weapon spawns.

3

> There always has and always will be blind rushing towards weapon spawns.

See my post.

Only at the start of matches. Now they’ve enabled it to occur throughout the match. I’ve never experienced blind rushes towards power weapon spawns mid-game, as many players either know beforehand that they’ll spawn there and have set up a perimeter, or players don’t know they spawn there and continue with their lives.

4

as variation of my previous response

knowing the answer to every question in a game of trivia because you memorized them ahead of time is not a show of skill, merely a less frowned upon form of cheating

5

May I point out that the people who win without a power weapon, or dashing towards some special spot that gives you an advantage, are the tactical ones. Power Weapons are in no way tactical, or make you any better at the game, they just give you an advantage. They don’t make you some sort of genius at Halo, or a “pro”. They give you 1-2 hit kill/multi-kills. So where is your argument?

6

We don’t fully know how these unlocks work, so until that time it’s all speculation. We do have some minor details on the weapon spawns, and what it will do is keep people on their toes, which honestly takes alot more skill than remembering that the sniper rifle will spawn in another 30 seconds.

7

> as variation of my previous response
>
> knowing the answer to every wuedtion in a game of trivia because you memorized them ahead of time is not a show of skill, merely a less frowned upon form of cheating

Cheating? If it was cheating, why would we have a game clock?

Memorizing weapon timers IS a skill. Just not a difficult one to pick up. If you’re so simple that you can’t keep track of a weapon respawn that’s almost always a flat 2 or 3 minutes, you don’t deserve the power weapon. End of story.

8

> > There always has and always will be blind rushing towards weapon spawns.
>
> See my post.
>
> Only at the start of matches. Now they’ve enabled it to occur throughout the match. I’ve never experienced blind rushes towards power weapon spawns mid-game, as many players either know beforehand that they’ll spawn there and have set up a perimeter, or players don’t know they spawn there and continue with their lives.

I’m not sure what playlist you have been playing but this happens to me all the time.

9

> Except for the fact that if everybody knows where the weapon is going to be in the next five seconds, they will blindly rush that location, chucking grenades as they go. With the automatically-equipped sprint ability, this is only more easy to do that it was in any other Halo game. Also, the rushes towards weapons in previoud titles only occurred at the start of the game, whereas now they will continue throughout the duration of every game.

Thats why they are RANDOM, they don’t appear in the same spot in any order. They change every single time. NO ONE WILL KNOW WHERE THEY ARE! THEY ARE RANDOM!

10

> > Except for the fact that if everybody knows where the weapon is going to be in the next five seconds, they will blindly rush that location, chucking grenades as they go. With the automatically-equipped sprint ability, this is only more easy to do that it was in any other Halo game. Also, the rushes towards weapons in previoud titles only occurred at the start of the game, whereas now they will continue throughout the duration of every game.
>
> Thats why they are RANDOM, they don’t appear in the same spot in any order. They change every single time. NO ONE WILL KNOW WHERE THEY ARE! THEY ARE RANDOM!

They can change the spawn system via remote servers for incoming “custom events” like this week only plasma pistols or only sniper rifles, why anyone didnt think this

11

> May I point out that the people who win without a power weapon, or dashing towards some special spot that gives you an advantage, are the tactical ones. Power Weapons are in no way tactical, or make you any better at the game, they just give you an advantage. They don’t make you some sort of genius at Halo, or a “pro”. They give you 1-2 hit kill/multi-kills. So where is your argument?

An advantage that you earned. For better or worse.

12

> > Except for the fact that if everybody knows where the weapon is going to be in the next five seconds, they will blindly rush that location, chucking grenades as they go. With the automatically-equipped sprint ability, this is only more easy to do that it was in any other Halo game. Also, the rushes towards weapons in previoud titles only occurred at the start of the game, whereas now they will continue throughout the duration of every game.
>
> Thats why they are RANDOM, they don’t appear in the same spot in any order. They change every single time. NO ONE WILL KNOW WHERE THEY ARE! THEY ARE RANDOM!

No. They have set locations, but the actual weapon that spawns in that location is random. And the visual alerts that the game gives you will tell you about which weapon appears where.

13

> > Except for the fact that if everybody knows where the weapon is going to be in the next five seconds, they will blindly rush that location, chucking grenades as they go. With the automatically-equipped sprint ability, this is only more easy to do that it was in any other Halo game. Also, the rushes towards weapons in previoud titles only occurred at the start of the game, whereas now they will continue throughout the duration of every game.
>
> Thats why they are RANDOM, they don’t appear in the same spot in any order. They change every single time. NO ONE WILL KNOW WHERE THEY ARE! THEY ARE RANDOM!

First, they’re not random. Second, everyone gets a heads-up on their screen before the weapon drops. EVERYBODY will know where they are, unless they’re dumb.

14

> > as variation of my previous response
> >
> > knowing the answer to every wuedtion in a game of trivia because you memorized them ahead of time is not a show of skill, merely a less frowned upon form of cheating
>
> Cheating? If it was cheating, why would we have a game clock?
>
> Memorizing weapon timers IS a skill. Just not a difficult one to pick up. If you’re so simple that you can’t keep track of a weapon respawn that’s almost always a flat 2 or 3 minutes, you don’t deserve the power weapon. End of story.

the answer to your question is “for balance”

I could reply by saying “if you were not willing to cheat (or exploit) then you do not deserve to win”…cookie points to whoever knows the reference.

on a lighter note THIS is the reason I refuse to play MP in any franchise especially the ones I like the most

15

Your argument is that this addition makes the game unfair, correct? This is not true because in previous Halo titles, though everyone had a fair chance at getting to weapons, not every player had this knowledge. The game had no way to communicate this to the player. Now with the new addition, all players understand that weapons spawn in certain locations on the map, and in order to get them, you must fight other players who also know where they are. This is fair no matter how you cut it: all players have equal knowledge, skill is the only thing making a difference. If you say that grenades will be spammed in the location of the weapon, then you are one step ahead. Duh, ofcourse grenades will be thrown there, they always are. Atleast you will not blindly run in and die, right? Really this balances the game, though I do not agree that allowing players to choose when weapons spawn is a good idea.

16

> Your argument is that this addition makes the game unfair, correct? This is not true because in previous Halo titles, though everyone had a fair chance at getting to weapons, not every player had this knowledge.

It’s their own damn fault. If someone lacks the brain power to time a flat 2-3 minutes, they deserve no sympathy. In fact, it makes me wonder how that person managed to turn on their xbox, or even dress themself that morning.

> The game had no way to communicate this to the player.

You mean, aside from that little clock down in the bottom right corner of everyone’s screen. And forge, in H3 and Reach.

> Now with the new addition, all players understand that weapons spawn in certain locations on the map, and in order to get them, you must fight other players who also know where they are. This is fair no matter how you cut it: all players have equal knowledge, skill is the only thing making a difference.

There is no skill in a disorganized mad dash.

> If you say that grenades will be spammed in the location of the weapon, then you are one step ahead. Duh, ofcourse grenades will be thrown there, they always are. Atleast you will not blindly run in and die, right? Really this balances the game, though I do not agree that allowing players to choose when weapons spawn is a good idea.

Yeah, what happens in games where everyone is actually competent? The scenario you’re describing is only applicable to games where everyone is either a guest or just clueless.

17

> An advantage that you earned. For better or worse.

They maybe advantages that you earn, BUT, they don’t make you tactical where he says that people who go after power weapons are tactical.

> No. They have set locations, but the actual weapon that spawns in that location is random. And the visual alerts that the game gives you will tell you about which weapon appears where

Next, thats what I meant! It could be a plasma pistol, it could be a Sniper. It makes you think a little more.

Here is a bit of eye candy for the OP. Enjoy.

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> > > as variation of my previous response
> > >
> > > knowing the answer to every wuedtion in a game of trivia because you memorized them ahead of time is not a show of skill, merely a less frowned upon form of cheating
> >
> > Cheating? If it was cheating, why would we have a game clock?
> >
> > Memorizing weapon timers IS a skill. Just not a difficult one to pick up. If you’re so simple that you can’t keep track of a weapon respawn that’s almost always a flat 2 or 3 minutes, you don’t deserve the power weapon. End of story.
>
> the answer to your question is “for balance”
>
> I could reply by saying “if you were not willing to cheat (or exploit) then you do not deserve to win”…cookie points to whoever knows the reference.
>
> on a lighter note THIS is the reason I refuse to play MP in any franchise especially the ones I like the most

This post has been edited by a moderator. Please do not flame or attack other members.

*Original post. Click at your own discretion.

Balance? You want -Yoinking!- balance? Fine, let’s give everyone aimbots. Take the shooting skill gap completely out of the equation, since that’s unbalanced and not fair to newer/lesser players. Then it will all come down to positioning! What skill that would take! A tactical player’s dream! Perfect balance!

Seriously, if you’re too cognitively limited to do such -Yoinking!- simple math and too damn lazy to take a few seconds out of your day to learn the exact timers (it’s pathetically easy), why the -Yoink- should you have your hand held?

19

> > Your argument is that this addition makes the game unfair, correct? This is not true because in previous Halo titles, though everyone had a fair chance at getting to weapons, not every player had this knowledge.
>
> It’s their own damn fault. If someone lacks the brain power to time a flat 2-3 minutes, they deserve no sympathy. In fact, it makes me wonder how that person managed to turn on their xbox, or even dress themself that morning.
>
>
>
> > The game had no way to communicate this to the player.
>
> You mean, aside from that little clock down in the bottom right corner of everyone’s screen. And forge, in H3 and Reach.
>
>
>
> > Now with the new addition, all players understand that weapons spawn in certain locations on the map, and in order to get them, you must fight other players who also know where they are. This is fair no matter how you cut it: all players have equal knowledge, skill is the only thing making a difference.
>
> There is no skill in a disorganized mad dash.
>
>
>
> > If you say that grenades will be spammed in the location of the weapon, then you are one step ahead. Duh, ofcourse grenades will be thrown there, they always are. Atleast you will not blindly run in and die, right? Really this balances the game, though I do not agree that allowing players to choose when weapons spawn is a good idea.
>
> Yeah, what happens in games where everyone is actually competent? The scenario you’re describing is only applicable to games where everyone is either a guest or just clueless.

You are blowing this out of proportion. The average Halo player does not memorize the spawn times of weapons. Nor does he or she know when the weapon was picked up necessarily. Players like you and I know these kinds of things because we have played the game for so long and are used to it. Not everyone knows knowledge like this, and shouldnt be crapped on for it… The game DID NOT communicate the power weapons to players. Im sorry but it just didnt. Sure, if you go into forge and check all the weapoons you could memorize them, but that is irrelevant. We are talking in-game mechanics and ui. The average player, again, has a more fair oppurtunity to understand the game with this new addition. It isn’t a mad dash for weapons, if you are a skilled player, and i suspect that you are, you will realize that you can set up for gaining a weapon even more easily now because you know exactly when the weapon will drop. If you are playing incompetant players, they will likely still be unable to figure out how the game works. This addition is for average players, and I support it even though I am considered a long time halo player… Remember, I’m not arguing that this addition makes the game more skill based, im saying that the game is more fair as a result. If a player is good, his or her skill WILL shine through.

20

> > > > as variation of my previous response
> > > >
> > > > knowing the answer to every wuedtion in a game of trivia because you memorized them ahead of time is not a show of skill, merely a less frowned upon form of cheating
> > >
> > > Cheating? If it was cheating, why would we have a game clock?
> > >
> > > Memorizing weapon timers IS a skill. Just not a difficult one to pick up. If you’re so simple that you can’t keep track of a weapon respawn that’s almost always a flat 2 or 3 minutes, you don’t deserve the power weapon. End of story.
> >
> > the answer to your question is “for balance”
> >
> > I could reply by saying “if you were not willing to cheat (or exploit) then you do not deserve to win”…cookie points to whoever knows the reference.
> >
> > on a lighter note THIS is the reason I refuse to play MP in any franchise especially the ones I like the most
>
> Balance? You want -Yoinking!- balance? Fine, let’s give everyone aimbots. Take the shooting skill gap completely out of the equation, since that’s unbalanced and not fair to newer/lesser players. Then it will all come down to positioning! What skill that would take! A tactical player’s dream! Perfect balance!
>
> Seriously, if you’re too cognitively limited to do such -Yoinking!- simple math and too damn lazy to take a few seconds out of your day to learn the exact timers (it’s pathetically easy), why the -Yoink!- should you have your hand held?

If you are playing a video game… you kind of are lazy… Its not a bad thing really. The game does need to be balanced, but I don’t see how aimbots does that… That is a really crazy statement. Everyone does need to be on an equal playing field, thats the essence of halo. Make the game equal and skill will show itself. You just play it and see where you end up.