A possible look for loadouts in halo 5.

Games Halo 5: Guardians
1

Keep in mind this is how i’d like to see them…

Weapons: Firstly we would scrap the primary and secondary catigories and allow the player to spawn with any 2 weapons that are in the weapons pool. (no power weapons obviously) Next we make changes to certain weapons to make them attractive choices or to balance things.

All automatics get a headshot multiplier.

Storm rifle gets a slight multiplier for damage against shields but does a little less damage to health. If said player is still hitting the head most of the time the TTK will not change.

Suppressor gets a tighter spread but instead of bloom it gets hard recoil. Making it a strong weapon up close but a skilled player could still make use of it outside super close range.

The human AR just needs to stay the same as it is now post TU in halo 4.

The DMR pretty much the same from halo 4 except it fires slower and has a higher RRR.

The Carbine fires a tad faster kills in 6 shots if the last is a headshot maintains its pinpoint accuracy but has a lower RRR range slightly lower then the BR to solidify it’s new role as a gap between automatics and utility weapons.

BR…Pretty much the same from halo 4 but a slight RRR increase and a slight decrease in ROF.

The magnum and any other dual wieldable weapons have a quicker swap time to make them more of an attractive option. This would include the magnum, SMG, Mauler.

We would be able to choose an AA the list of what those would be can be discussed later on. As far as “perks” go we would only have access to 1 per loadout and we would have ones that impact the game less. Examples would be dexterity, wheelman, gunner, drop recon, and grenadier. Ones not returning because of too much power would be: ammo, survivor, resistor etc.

Lastly i think it would be alright to spawn with the nades we already have but limit starting supply to 1. Grenadier brings that back to 2. Doing this to the perks “specializes” your spartan in a meaningful way to a field you would like without heavily impacting another players experience.

EDIT: The magnum would be almost the same as the magnum post TU halo 4 except it has a slightly bigger clip and slightly less bloom.

The Mauler should be the same as halo 3’s but with a tighter spread. It should always be a 2SK to a fully shielded spartan in close range unless the spartan has almost no shields. Then it can be a 1SK.

The Human SMG would have less recoil a bigger clip and slightly less damage then the suppressor. Keep in mind it has a quicker swap time like the pistol and mauler.

Weapons not returning to loadouts would be the light rifle Plasma pistol and Boltshot.

Those weapons could either be tweaked to be viable power weapons (i can come up with ways if people are interested) OR if POD returns they are POD options.

Lastly when i meant dual-wieldable weapons i wasn’t inferring i would include that in game. I simply meant weapons that were dual-wieldable in the past.

2

I’m sortvif ok with this, but perks need to go and whether AAs are in loadouts is dependent upon how AAs are handled not loadouts before someone goes on about that. And Im on the bench for the DMR and LR being in since I dont mind them but it does have an affectbon lots of peoples gameplay and map design.

3

> I’m sortvif ok with this, but perks need to go and whether AAs are in loadouts is dependent upon how AAs are handled not loadouts before someone goes on about that. And Im on the bench for the DMR and LR being in since I dont mind them but it does have an affectbon lots of peoples gameplay and map design.

Re read i made an edit. Why do perks have to go? The idea i preposed pretty much solves the issue they bring. We could even go as far as to have some sort of visual addition to the armor if people wanted. It was something i suggested.

The light rifle would not be in loadouts and my fix makes the DMR less powerful. Plus if the maps are designed better the DMR won’t be a huge issue.

4

> > I’m sortvif ok with this, but perks need to go and whether AAs are in loadouts is dependent upon how AAs are handled not loadouts before someone goes on about that. And Im on the bench for the DMR and LR being in since I dont mind them but it does have an affectbon lots of peoples gameplay and map design.
>
> Re read i made an edit. Why do perks have to go? The idea i preposed pretty much solves the issue they bring. We could even go as far as to have some sort of visual addition to the armor if people wanted. It was something i suggested.
>
> The light rifle would not be in loadouts and my fix makes the DMR less powerful. Plus if the maps are designed better the DMR won’t be a huge issue.

Fine with me really with the LR and DMR.

The perks need to go because the still alter the players ability to bit spawn with equal stats, why should someone else win a fight because his vehicle is slightly more resistant, or his BR reloads faster etc.

5

> > > I’m sortvif ok with this, but perks need to go and whether AAs are in loadouts is dependent upon how AAs are handled not loadouts before someone goes on about that. And Im on the bench for the DMR and LR being in since I dont mind them but it does have an affectbon lots of peoples gameplay and map design.
> >
> > Re read i made an edit. Why do perks have to go? The idea i preposed pretty much solves the issue they bring. We could even go as far as to have some sort of visual addition to the armor if people wanted. It was something i suggested.
> >
> > The light rifle would not be in loadouts and my fix makes the DMR less powerful. Plus if the maps are designed better the DMR won’t be a huge issue.
>
> Fine with me really with the LR and DMR.
>
> The perks need to go because the still alter the players ability to bit spawn with equal stats, why should someone else win a fight because his vehicle is slightly more resistant, or his BR reloads faster etc.

I can understand what you are saying. But i feel like limiting perks to lesser impacting options sort of minimizes that. The same concept can be easily applied to AA’s but how often does an AA help win someone a fight? I get where your coming from but i don’t agree with my fix that it would be a big enough issue to just can them.

6

This here is how I would like to see Loadouts:

Primary Weapon - Utility Weapons Only

Battle Rifle
Designated Markman Rifle
Covenant Carbine
Needle Rifle
Light Rifle

Secondary Weapon - Dual Wield Weapons Only (All filling a Close-mid range niche)

Magnum
Sub-machine Gun
Plasma Rifle
Mauler
Bishop Beam

Grenade - 1x Grenades ONLY, 2x leads to spam and overpowers some choices.

Fragmentation
Plasma
Spike
Pulse

To explain the balance:

Utility Weapons are designed specifically to work better on certain maps than others. As a result the longest range functions on them (DMR, NR, scoped LR) have slower killtimes but gain the benefit of precision accuracy. The closer ranged functions (BR, Carbine, unscoped LR) have a faster overall killtime, but become less consistent the farther away you get. From there your choice is mostly playstyle. If you want more flexibility overall.

The LR is a good choice, but doesn’t quite pack the firepower at either respective range as direct equivalents (Meaning it has a disadvantage to a BR/CC up close, but an advantage to a DMR/NR, and vice versa at long range).

The BR/DMR, and CC/NR are very balanced in killtime, only major difference being rate of fire vs shot-for-shot damage, the NR is also automatic like it was in Reach.

Sidearms are designed and balanced specifically with Dual Wield in mind. Not that you exactly get 1/2 a weapon, it’s closer to 3/4 a weapon when you spawn with it, but having two Sidearms at once will give you a significant close range advantage against any Utility weapon in close quarters fights. Using a single weapon isn’t exactly useless either so long as you use it appropriately.

Using a Magnum with a skilled headshot makes it a very powerful flexible counterpart to the DMR/NR in BTB games, or backup to the BR/CC/LR in any situation. It has a faster killtime than most sidearms, and all of the Utility Weapons provided you have the skill to 5/6/whatever shot with it perfectly. It is limited in it’s range though, no longer boasting a scope, and maintaining slightly more spread than the BR/CC, but still maintaining it’s reliability from Halo 4 in tight quarters. Dual Wielding this weapon gives it that unique Headshot other DW weapons don’t get. It Dual Wields most effectively with the Bishop Beam and Plasma Rifle.

The SMG is like the Magnum for players who have a hard time landing that headshot. It’s killtime is slower than a Magnums, around par with a BR/CC so long as you’re within close quarters. It’s clip size is nice and forgiving too. It brings a solid DPS against Health to Dual Wield, making it a great finisher for those who struggle with headshots. This weapon Dual Wields fantastically with the Bishop Beam and Plasma Rifle.

The Plasma Rifle should play relatively the same as it did in Reach. If you are confident in your ability to lead the projectiles, using this weapon to drain shields and then swapping to your Utility weapon for a headshot, or closing off with a Melee gives you a definite advantage in killtime over just 4 shotting or even Magnum killing for close range encounters. This sidearm also does significantly more damage to vehicles than most other spawn weapons. Being superheated plasma and having little killing power in other areas, it only makes sense that it should have a bit of a benefit where it can really gain it, melting through vehicle alloy. It’s shield drain is an obvious advantage in dual wield, being a vital counterpart at close range to the Magnum, or SMG.

The Mauler has the most pathetic range of any weapon in the game, it will usually 4 shot at the longest range a Boltshot can 1 shot. In a standard close quarters bout your shots will not do a whole lot of damage, giving you 3/4/5 shot kills the farther and farther away you get, but if you can get them within 2/3 shot kill range, or Melee range, you’ve definitely trumped anything else you could have spawned with (Save possibly a PR/Melee, if they got shots off before you made it right in close you’ll likely tie). This weapon brings a great close quarters backup to Dual Wield, making it great for adding flexibility to the Magnum or Bishop Beam.

The Bishop Beam is range-flexible much like the Magnum, however it does Automatic-like solid damage, fitting between the Plasma Rifle and SMG by dealing medium damage to both health and shielding. Think like a Sentinel Beam that fits in one hand. It’s killtime falls par with the SMG and the Plasma Rifle. Though it’s benefit to Dual Wield is more in it’s flexibility than it’s ability to kill. It goes fantastically with the Magnum or the Mauler.

Finally we come to Grenades:

Frag - Relatively unchanged. Halo 4’s Frags are good for scouting a corner an enemy is hiding behind, it’s blast radius is the largest of the group, and it’s fuse is capable of being manipulated with accurate bounces.

Plasma - This weapon gets a rework to it’s stickiness. It will no longer stick until it has travelled a little distance through the air, at least far enough that just whipping it at a close up player or vehicle for an easy stick is no longer possible, and you actually have to account for their movement and aim with skill. With that this weapon should be largely unchanged, it’s smaller blast radius is fitting of it’s sticky property.

Spike - Also reworked, this weapon no longer sticks to players, it can only stick to inanimate objects/surfaces. Allowing it to play a little more like a trap. When it bursts, the cone of spikes becomes a near-instant deathtrap, but it will only shoot straight out in a cone shape, not off to the sides. Meaning it isn’t difficult to avoid so long as you pay attention to it.

Pulse - Largely unchanged, the pulse’s only big weakness in Halo 4 was that you spawned with less than other nade types, now you will spawn with the same number. I love this grenade the way it is, creating a little danger field, double detonating, and impact detonation can all be hilarious given the scenario, and it definitely serves as an amazing clutch-backup to turn a situation around, but requires plenty of skill to use properly.

I would like Perks to be gone, and AA’s placed on the map, some, like Active Camouflage, converted into Powerup form. If AA’s are on the map they should have two indicators, one being the “recharge” indicator, the other being the “total use” indicator. An AA will last until it’s “total use” indicator reaches zero. You can drop AAs when you die. AAs are made more powerful than they are now to make them worth vying for.

7

Make the DMR slower with more aim assist.
Make the BR slower with more aim assist.
Make the Carbine fire faster, kill in less shots, with less aim assist.

So slow down the pace of the game and make it easier, while simultaneously making the Carbine overpowered?

All automatics get a headshot multiplier, but the Storm Rifle is projectile and the Suppressor is projectile with recoil. Making the AR the best choice by default.

The Human SMG would only be useful for finishing off enemies, would be way too niche.

Instead of the Mauler, I’d rather have a Forerunner weapon with a 100% precise high damage beam that disappears after a few feet. Even then though it would probably be overshadowed by automatics, which are essentially the same and much easier to use.

8

> This here is how I would like to see Loadouts:
>
>
> Primary Weapon - Utility Weapons Only
>
> Battle Rifle
> Designated Markman Rifle
> Covenant Carbine
> Needle Rifle
> Light Rifle
>
>
> Secondary Weapon - Dual Wield Weapons Only (All filling a Close-mid range niche)
>
> Magnum
> Sub-machine Gun
> Plasma Rifle
> Mauler
> Bishop Beam
>
>
> Grenade - 1x Grenades ONLY, 2x leads to spam and overpowers some choices.
>
> Fragmentation
> Plasma
> Spike
> Pulse
>
>
>
> To explain the balance:
>
> Utility Weapons are designed specifically to work better on certain maps than others. As a result the longest range functions on them (DMR, NR, scoped LR) have slower killtimes but gain the benefit of precision accuracy. The closer ranged functions (BR, Carbine, unscoped LR) have a faster overall killtime, but become less consistent the farther away you get. From there your choice is mostly playstyle. If you want more flexibility overall.
>
> The LR is a good choice, but doesn’t quite pack the firepower at either respective range as direct equivalents (Meaning it has a disadvantage to a BR/CC up close, but an advantage to a DMR/NR, and vice versa at long range).
>
> The BR/DMR, and CC/NR are very balanced in killtime, only major difference being rate of fire vs shot-for-shot damage, the NR is also automatic like it was in Reach.
>
> Sidearms are designed and balanced specifically with Dual Wield in mind. Not that you exactly get 1/2 a weapon, it’s closer to 3/4 a weapon when you spawn with it, but having two Sidearms at once will give you a significant close range advantage against any Utility weapon in close quarters fights. Using a single weapon isn’t exactly useless either so long as you use it appropriately.
>
> Using a Magnum with a skilled headshot makes it a very powerful flexible counterpart to the DMR/NR in BTB games, or backup to the BR/CC/LR in any situation. It has a faster killtime than most sidearms, and all of the Utility Weapons provided you have the skill to 5/6/whatever shot with it perfectly. It is limited in it’s range though, no longer boasting a scope, and maintaining slightly more spread than the BR/CC, but still maintaining it’s reliability from Halo 4 in tight quarters. Dual Wielding this weapon gives it that unique Headshot other DW weapons don’t get. It Dual Wields most effectively with the Bishop Beam and Plasma Rifle.
>
> The SMG is like the Magnum for players who have a hard time landing that headshot. It’s killtime is slower than a Magnums, around par with a BR/CC so long as you’re within close quarters. It’s clip size is nice and forgiving too. It brings a solid DPS against Health to Dual Wield, making it a great finisher for those who struggle with headshots. This weapon Dual Wields fantastically with the Bishop Beam and Plasma Rifle.
>
> The Plasma Rifle should play relatively the same as it did in Reach. If you are confident in your ability to lead the projectiles, using this weapon to drain shields and then swapping to your Utility weapon for a headshot, or closing off with a Melee gives you a definite advantage in killtime over just 4 shotting or even Magnum killing for close range encounters. This sidearm also does significantly more damage to vehicles than most other spawn weapons. Being superheated plasma and having little killing power in other areas, it only makes sense that it should have a bit of a benefit where it can really gain it, melting through vehicle alloy. It’s shield drain is an obvious advantage in dual wield, being a vital counterpart at close range to the Magnum, or SMG.
>
> The Mauler has the most pathetic range of any weapon in the game, it will usually 4 shot at the longest range a Boltshot can 1 shot. In a standard close quarters bout your shots will not do a whole lot of damage, giving you 3/4/5 shot kills the farther and farther away you get, but if you can get them within 2/3 shot kill range, or Melee range, you’ve definitely trumped anything else you could have spawned with (Save possibly a PR/Melee, if they got shots off before you made it right in close you’ll likely tie). This weapon brings a great close quarters backup to Dual Wield, making it great for adding flexibility to the Magnum or Bishop Beam.
>
> The Bishop Beam is range-flexible much like the Magnum, however it does Automatic-like solid damage, fitting between the Plasma Rifle and SMG by dealing medium damage to both health and shielding. Think like a Sentinel Beam that fits in one hand. It’s killtime falls par with the SMG and the Plasma Rifle. Though it’s benefit to Dual Wield is more in it’s flexibility than it’s ability to kill. It goes fantastically with the Magnum or the Mauler.
>
>
>
> Finally we come to Grenades:
>
> Frag - Relatively unchanged. Halo 4’s Frags are good for scouting a corner an enemy is hiding behind, it’s blast radius is the largest of the group, and it’s fuse is capable of being manipulated with accurate bounces.
>
> Plasma - This weapon gets a rework to it’s stickiness. It will no longer stick until it has travelled a little distance through the air, at least far enough that just whipping it at a close up player or vehicle for an easy stick is no longer possible, and you actually have to account for their movement and aim with skill. With that this weapon should be largely unchanged, it’s smaller blast radius is fitting of it’s sticky property.
>
> Spike - Also reworked, this weapon no longer sticks to players, it can only stick to inanimate objects/surfaces. Allowing it to play a little more like a trap. When it bursts, the cone of spikes becomes a near-instant deathtrap, but it will only shoot straight out in a cone shape, not off to the sides. Meaning it isn’t difficult to avoid so long as you pay attention to it.
>
> Pulse - Largely unchanged, the pulse’s only big weakness in Halo 4 was that you spawned with less than other nade types, now you will spawn with the same number. I love this grenade the way it is, creating a little danger field, double detonating, and impact detonation can all be hilarious given the scenario, and it definitely serves as an amazing clutch-backup to turn a situation around, but requires plenty of skill to use properly.
>
>
> I would like Perks to be gone, and AA’s placed on the map, some, like Active Camouflage, converted into Powerup form. If AA’s are on the map they should have two indicators, one being the “recharge” indicator, the other being the “total use” indicator. An AA will last until it’s “total use” indicator reaches zero. You can drop AAs when you die. AAs are made more powerful than they are now to make them worth vying for.

The light rifle I feel does too much to be a spawning weapon and the Dolphin gun is redundant if we can spawn with a carbine. Why remove most automatics?

I don’t agree on the plasma grenade change. I don’t feel like using dual wield as a balancing point for the weapons is a good idea. The only way i could possibly be okay with dual wielding is if meleeing doesn’t drop your weapon and you can actively keep them even when swapping.

AA’s and perks can be a different argument for a different time.

9

> Make the DMR slower with more aim assist.
> Make the BR slower with more aim assist.
> <mark>Make the Carbine fire faster, kill in less shots, with less aim assist.</mark>
>
> So slow down the pace of the game and make it easier, while simultaneously making the Carbine overpowered?
>
> All automatics get a headshot multiplier, but the Storm Rifle is projectile and the Suppressor is projectile with recoil. Making the AR the best choice by default.
>
> The Human SMG would only be useful for finishing off enemies, would be way too niche.
>
> Instead of the Mauler, I’d rather have a Forerunner weapon with a 100% precise high damage beam that disappears after a few feet. Even then though it would probably be overshadowed by automatics, which are essentially the same and much easier to use.

Don’t agree with this one.

10

> Make the DMR slower with more aim assist.
> Make the BR slower with more aim assist.
> Make the Carbine fire faster, kill in less shots, with less aim assist.
>
> So slow down the pace of the game and make it easier, while simultaneously making the Carbine overpowered?
>
> All automatics get a headshot multiplier, but the Storm Rifle is projectile and the Suppressor is projectile with recoil. Making the AR the best choice by default.
>
> The Human SMG would only be useful for finishing off enemies, would be way too niche.
>
> Instead of the Mauler, I’d rather have a Forerunner weapon with a 100% precise high damage beam that disappears after a few feet. Even then though it would probably be overshadowed by automatics, which are essentially the same and much easier to use.

Adding RRR Doesn’t directly add more aim assist. You’re blowing it out of preportion. We could keep the carbines ROF at halo 4’s. Other then that i don’t see how it would be “op.”

For easier players. That doesn’t mean a skilled player can’t use the other automatics and miss out. The other weapons have benifits that would far outshadow the AR in the hands of a skilled player. Again hitting the extremes here. Please stop and actually discuss instead of being whitty.

Not really. The SMG is hitscan, it swaps faster. It would be clearly the better choice for a lesser skilled player but not redundant or useless. Your speaking as if the little less damage makes it useless.

11

> Adding RRR Doesn’t directly add more aim assist.

How exactly does increasing aim assist range not add more aim assist?

> You’re blowing it out of preportion. We could keep the carbines ROF at halo 4’s. Other then that i don’t see how it would be “op.”

You’re buffing the Carbine’s damage output and nerfing the other rifles for no reason, while giving it less spread.

> The other weapons have benifits that would far outshadow the AR in the hands of a skilled player. Again hitting the extremes here. Please stop and actually discuss instead of being whitty.

With the Storm Rifle’s Projectile nature and spread, hitting headshots would be much more difficult to accomplish than the hitscan AR. With the Suppressors recoil, spread, and projectile nature it would be impossible. And I’m assuming all would rely heavily on headshots to reach their true potential.

I don’t really see the point in having three automatics, especially when the AR will just overshadow the other two. On paper it might work out, in-game it won’t.

Balanced right the Storm Rifle might be able to contend in the hands of an extremely skilled player, but the skill gap between the SR and AR would be massive and only for a marginal advantage that in the end doesn’t even matter.

It’s kind of like why the Suppressor was never used to begin with. Yes, it has a faster killtime and a shorter range, but you’re already in pretty short range to begin with and the other two already kill fairly fast, there’s no reason to limit yourself even further. It doesn’t serve any purpose.

> Not really. The SMG is hitscan, it swaps faster. It would be clearly the better choice for a lesser skilled player but not redundant or useless. Your speaking as if the little less damage makes it useless.

It’s inferior in all aspects except swap speed from the way you’ve described it. If you’re playing the game right you shouldn’t even need a “finisher” weapon, and at close range a projectile weapon might as well be hitscan, there’s no difference.

12

@rami.

Because your not. Or atleast the way you are sounding it sounds like “the BR has 23 aim assist if we add more RRR it ups that to 30 aim assist.” All i’m seeing it do is make it more effective at range or less. Which is what i want.

I buffed the carbine by one shot. I didn’t increase it’s accuracy. I actually reduced the RRR range. One would think that means it’s less effective at range. I nerfed the DMR’s ROF so it’s not as strong at all ranges. I nerfed the BR’s ROF because it fires too fast for most peoples liking. It’s not like toning it back to say halo 3’s would kill the weapons effectiveness.

/: are you wanting automatics to be easy? Just because it would be hard doesn’t make it impossible or useless. Making the SR do more damage against shields gives it a role as a shield -Yoink!- which is what people used the plasma rifle for anyway but because there is a HS multiplier if used skillfully it can be more. Adding recoil to the suppressor instead of increasing bloom furthers it’s role as a super close range weapon. Giving it a HS multiplier can further that and make it more effective outside close range.

Said changes are to make automatics more defined into the roles 343 was trying to accomplish. The AR would be the easier choice for automatics but also the best ranged potential if the player is skilled at bursting for Headshots. The suppressor becomes the strongest in it’s class and the SR would be the middle ground with a shield stripping role.

The SMG is inferior compared to the suppressor because forruner weapons are inherintly stronger. The simple fact that it’s hitscan means it has an edge over the suppressor. That particular edge will make the difference in many fights. It’s not redundant or useless.

There plenty of times where a faster swapping weapon would be helpful. Like after firing a rocket launcher at a vehicle and a player rounds the corner at you. Or you are sniping and hear someone approaching you. “playing right” is not only a poor excuse but an impossible one to do 100% of the time. It adds individuality to the smaller weapons and gives an edge in areas without making them OP or UP.

13

> The light rifle I feel does too much to be a spawning weapon and the Dolphin gun is redundant if we can spawn with a carbine. Why remove most automatics?
>
> I don’t agree on the plasma grenade change. I don’t feel like using dual wield as a balancing point for the weapons is a good idea. The only way i could possibly be okay with dual wielding is if meleeing doesn’t drop your weapon and you can actively keep them even when swapping.
>
> AA’s and perks can be a different argument for a different time.

If the Light Rifle is designed to be flexible, but not “powerful” as I mentioned, it fits fine as a spawn weapon. Noone is going to go out of their way for something slightly more flexible, when that flexibility won’t mean much most of the time. The LR would fit the perfect “Jack of all trades, master of none” archetype that no other weapon is remotely capable of fitting.

Plasma Grenades don’t even make sense in their current form, and have ALWAYS been prone to causing grief with nooby point blank sticks. This is a change I would welcome even if they weren’t in loadouts. It makes more sense for starters, because the way they work now there’s no reason they shouldn’t stick to your hand when you press the button to throw them. And It would raise the skill gap on them significantly, without sacrificing the whole point to their existence in the game.

Dual Wield honestly should come back. Part of the reason the other automatics are gone is to make room for Dual Wield’s glorious return. If Dual Wield wasn’t coming back, the sidearm caste would look like: Magnum, AR, Storm Rifle, Mauler, Sentinel Beam. So they’d be in the game just fine, but they’d be in the secondary slot, where all the weapons are meant for closer quarters.

The reason I, and likely many other competitive players would like to push for Dual Wield, is so that the Automatics aren’t too powerful for their generally VERY low skill gap. This way you must actually collect your weapon a counterpart before you can be an Automatic newb. But this also keeps Autos from being uncontrollably powerful, by limiting where they are used, while securing them a DEFINITE niche in the sandbox where they are allowed to dominate… So long as you’ve collected your second one.

I see no reason for Dual Wield to change from the way it was in Halo 2. A good player could micromanage their buttons and instantly pick a weapon back up after a Melee, or drop/nade/pickup almost instantaneously using the right combinations of button presses.

14

> @rami.
> I buffed the carbine by one shot. I didn’t increase it’s accuracy. I actually reduced the RRR range.

You also tightened up the spread unless I misread.

> I nerfed the DMR’s ROF so it’s not as strong at all ranges. I nerfed the BR’s ROF because it fires too fast for most peoples liking. It’s not like toning it back to say halo 3’s would kill the weapons effectiveness.

I feel the current killtimes are fine, the only exception being the BR kills too fast relative to other weapons, however I’d rather buff the other weapons than nerf the BR down.

> are you wanting automatics to be easy?

I’m saying the nature of the AR will make it pretty much just as effective without anywhere near the skill requirement. If the Storm Rifle had a HS multiplier but the AR did not I could see that working out better.

> Adding recoil to the suppressor instead of increasing bloom furthers it’s role as a super close range weapon. Giving it a HS multiplier can further that and make it more effective outside close range.

You can’t consistently headshot if the weapon is constantly climbing upwards. You would need to give it more of a headshot multiplier than other weapons.
Either way I still don’t see the point in having three automatics, or even three rifles for that matter.

> The SR would be the middle ground with a shield stripping role.

I feel that role would be better put on a rifle type weapon. Shield Stripping is something that promotes team shotting, yet putting it on a limited range weapon ruins the potential for team shotting.

> The SMG is inferior compared to the suppressor because forruner weapons are inherintly stronger. The simple fact that it’s hitscan means it has an edge over the suppressor. That particular edge will make the difference in many fights. It’s not redundant or useless.

Gameplay over canon. If it’s a completely inferior weapon it’s imbalanced. You can make it inferior in damage but stronger in some other trait.

Regardless, hitscan vs projectile doesn’t matter at close range, there’s practically no difference because there’s no leading. The former has your bullet register instantly, the latter has your bullet register within a fraction of a second of firing, which is essentially instantly. With hitbox sizes and magnetism, you’re still going to hit even if you aren’t aiming ahead.

> There plenty of times where a faster swapping weapon would be helpful.

I disagree. I don’t doubt such occasions exist, but they are still too situational to justify a backup weapon, and I dislike the concept of backup weapons to begin with.

15

> > The light rifle I feel does too much to be a spawning weapon and the Dolphin gun is redundant if we can spawn with a carbine. Why remove most automatics?
> >
> > I don’t agree on the plasma grenade change. I don’t feel like using dual wield as a balancing point for the weapons is a good idea. The only way i could possibly be okay with dual wielding is if meleeing doesn’t drop your weapon and you can actively keep them even when swapping.
> >
> > AA’s and perks can be a different argument for a different time.
>
> If the Light Rifle is designed to be flexible, but not “powerful” as I mentioned, it fits fine as a spawn weapon. Noone is going to go out of their way for something slightly more flexible, when that flexibility won’t mean much most of the time. The LR would fit the perfect “Jack of all trades, master of none” archetype that no other weapon is remotely capable of fitting.
>
> Plasma Grenades don’t even make sense in their current form, and have ALWAYS been prone to causing grief with nooby point blank sticks. This is a change I would welcome even if they weren’t in loadouts. It makes more sense for starters, because the way they work now there’s no reason they shouldn’t stick to your hand when you press the button to throw them. And It would raise the skill gap on them significantly, without sacrificing the whole point to their existence in the game.
>
> Dual Wield honestly should come back. Part of the reason the other automatics are gone is to make room for Dual Wield’s glorious return. If Dual Wield wasn’t coming back, the sidearm caste would look like: Magnum, AR, Storm Rifle, Mauler, Sentinel Beam. So they’d be in the game just fine, but they’d be in the secondary slot, where all the weapons are meant for closer quarters.
>
> The reason I, and likely many other competitive players would like to push for Dual Wield, is so that the Automatics aren’t too powerful for their generally VERY low skill gap. This way you must actually collect your weapon a counterpart before you can be an Automatic newb. But this also keeps Autos from being uncontrollably powerful, by limiting where they are used, while securing them a DEFINITE niche in the sandbox where they are allowed to dominate… So long as you’ve collected your second one.
>
> I see no reason for Dual Wield to change from the way it was in Halo 2. A good player could micromanage their buttons and instantly pick a weapon back up after a Melee, or drop/nade/pickup almost instantaneously using the right combinations of button presses.

I could make some changes to the LR so people would go on the map to get it. It’s honestly up to a players opinion. Even with your way described i still feel like it would be redundant. I’d have to see how it plays out i guess. I like the concept of what you are doing with the Plasmas but i would not be comfortable with it. Just would feel to weird. I don’t think everything in the sandbox needs to be hyper skillful. You should have to balance something around a players tactics. We would probably be better off just not spawning with them if people throw a fit.

I don’t know. I really was not comfortable with the AR being gone in halo 2. And it’s easy to pick the weapons back up. There is no skill in it. It’s tedious and annoying to deal with. But as i said those are the changes i’d like if dual wielding came back. If they didn’t happen it’s whatever. I will never be fine with balancing things around dual wielding until i see it happen and not on paper. Because not everything works in practice.

16

@Rami

  1. No i’m pretty sure i said we kept it’s pinpoint accuracy. If i typed otherwise i am sorry. I was not meaning we make it more accurate.

  2. Elaborate on this please. Particularly how you would buff the other weapons to match the BR.

  3. Disagree. I feel that would deminish the AR’s effective range role.

  4. Have you played battlefield? There is a tactic called tap firing. It all but negigates the weapons recoil allowing certain weapons with high ROF to be more effective outside it’s usual effective range. It takes a skilled player to effectively tap fire. This is what you would be doing on all automatics in order to make them more effective at ranges. I highly suggest you go watch a video on this before continuing to argue because i feel as if you are not seeing the same picture i am. More weapons for more variety.

  5. Moot point. Doesn’t really give a reason why it can’t work for the SR so we will move onn.

  6. …The Suppressor is supposed to be the best at close range. The SMG would be better at distances outside of close range thus is it’s role.

  7. I guess we will have to agree to disagree here. None of my changes suggested in anyway that they are designed as a back up weapon or secondary weapon. The faster swap time is merely a trait. Nothing more.

17

> 2) Elaborate on this please. Particularly how you would buff the other weapons to match the BR.

Buff their killtimes as well instead of nerfing the BR’s. Even with a buff they still wouldn’t exceed 1.3s

> 3) Disagree. I feel that would deminish the AR’s effective range role.

It’s a hitscan weapon while the others are fairly slow projectile. It’s already cemented into an extended range role.

> 4) Have you played battlefield? There is a tactic called tap firing.

So tap fire with 13 shot kill weapon, or use a five shot kill precision weapon? Pretty obvious which is the better choice. On top of slower killtimes, they would also require you to headshot for every shot instead of the last.

Halo is not Battlefield. All weapons in Battlefield only take a few shots to kill and have quite fast killtimes.

> 6) …The Suppressor is supposed to be the best at close range. The SMG would be better at distances outside of close range thus is it’s role.

The SMG would have slightly more range but still be inferior to other automatics.

18

@rami

  1. More detail please.

  2. Agree to disagree.

  3. -Yoink- excuse. Obviously a precision is going to be a better choice then an automatic. This point was directly a counter to how you said “it would be impossible/useless to go for the head on the projectile weapons.” So please stick to what we were discussing. I gave you reasons on how the weapons would not be useless because of their roles. I gave you a solution to your “impossible” comment. Of course it’s not practical to burst automatics when in halo utilities are better. But given the changes plus the HS multiplier there is more then enough reason to burst and to use the weapons. If you want to stick to what you use thats fine. But with these preposed changes there is enough reason to try.

  4. Of course. It’s not supposed to be better then most. It’s better then one in an area for more then one reason. It’s unique enough. But i guess agree to disagree.